Please add unassembled components for PVE activities

[Decidion]

It would be awesome if unassembled components dropped in Flashpoints, Uprisings and other group PVE activities the same way they drop while doing PVP activities. In talking to many people in game, this seems to be a very popular idea!

[Yomitako]

It would be awesome if unassembled components dropped in Flashpoints, Uprisings and other group PVE activities the same way they drop while doing PVP activities. In talking to many people in game, this seems to be a very popular idea!

 

I disagree. PVP players who don't do PVE have no way of obtaining the Unassembled pieces in their entirety, so the components are there to give them something to work towards and filling in the gear pieces as they need them (outside of whatever they also obtain in the crates).

 

With the way 5.2 is set up to be, this will be even less necessary, as gear tokens are now guaranteed on every boss, and sometime afterwards, you'll be able to obtain 230 gear from a vendor (I don't believe they set an ETA for this vendor to appear). While it may be a popular idea amongst your friends, I doubt PVP players would be happy with this, as the unassembled components system was designed for them for a reason.

[Decidion]

I disagree. PVP players who don't do PVE have no way of obtaining the Unassembled pieces in their entirety, so the components are there to give them something to work towards and filling in the gear pieces as they need them (outside of whatever they also obtain in the crates).

 

With the way 5.2 is set up to be, this will be even less necessary, as gear tokens are now guaranteed on every boss, and sometime afterwards, you'll be able to obtain 230 gear from a vendor (I don't believe they set an ETA for this vendor to appear). While it may be a popular idea amongst your friends, I doubt PVP players would be happy with this, as the unassembled components system was designed for them for a reason.

 

And you are assuming every PVE player does operations, not true. And even the ones who do, but stand no chance of getting in (or completing HM or NiM) operations have less alternatives than PVP'ers who can grind for 236 or 242 gear just by loosing unranked warzones.

 

And it seems rather selfish for someone to oppose a benefit for someone else so they can feel "special", especially when it poses no detriment to themselves.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Decidion

[Drake_Averrod]

While I would have supported to make "unassembled components" the new basic commendation at some point, with the changes in 5.2 I think this would be no longer necessary or helpful.

 

With the 5.2 changes we almost have the old system combined with GC. Every player can get the best gear but the fastest way will be specific content. Atleast to me, gear is a reason to keep playing. Improving the character and making him/her more powerful musn't get too easy or you burn through the content too fast.

 

According to my understanding in 5.2 SM ops will drop guaranteed 236 Tokens. Except for maybe Bloodhunt / Rishi HM and Master Story Chapters that should be more than good enough for the below average player to tackle all regular solo and small group content. If you want higher than that you will still have the GC system. If you casually pvp on the side you can further hasten your gear gain.

 

I find better gear should feel like a reward for effort undertaken. Be that either farming/doing different things (GC), killing specific bosses (ops) or farming Components (PVP) , you will get your gear sooner or later. Hence I would be opposed to such a change.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Drake_Averrod

[Yomitako]

And you are assuming every PVE player does operations, not true. And even the ones who do, but stand no chance of getting in (or completing HM or NiM) operations have less alternatives than PVP'ers who can grind for 236 or 242 gear just by loosing unranked warzones.

 

And it seems rather selfish for someone to oppose a benefit for someone else so they can feel "special", especially when it poses no detriment to themselves.

 

I assume that the ones playing PVE content for the highest gear possible are ops players. If you're not doing operations, why do you need the gear then? If you stand no chance of getting into groups for HM/NIM content, that's likely on your group, not on your gear. You need better progression groups then.

 

As it is, you do SM operations to get enough gear to start doing HM content. You do the HM content to get gear to do NiM content. It's always been that way. As I said, come 5.2 it'll be even easier to gear up through operations due to guaranteed drops. Unassembled components are completely unnecessary in heroics/FP's/Uprisings.

[Kyuuu]

yes this needs to happen so the people that dont want to pvp/wz dont have to, q anymore so we dont have to deal with all more stupid they we already doo.

 

Then again not sure how relevant unassembled components will be once 5.2 hits and people go back to raiding

[Tsillah]

With the way 5.2 is set up to be, this will be even less necessary, as gear tokens are now guaranteed on every boss.

 

You clearly haven't read the patch notes. Take a look at what they say about loot drops in NiM operations. Each boss drops loot but ONLY the final boss of each ops drops the BiS gear.

 

In 5.2 PvP will still be the best way to get BiS gear and therefore many raiders will still feel they need to screw up warzones because they don't care about PvP but just want the components because BWA can't do a patch without sneaking in a messed up decision to ruin things again.

 

It was a bad idea of them to give PvP and PvE exactly the same gear and we will still be in the situation that BiS gear is a matter of time played in PvP and beating bosses in NiM which is rather more challenging will not be rewarded with this BiS gear.

 

Think about it. Sure some hardcore guilds will rush through NiM as usual. But the normal progression guilds that actually struggle in NiM will barely get any BiS gear for their efforts, basically pointing them at PvP to get their raid gear together. It's completely ****ed up and they sure as hell didn't mention this before.

[Yomitako]

You clearly haven't read the patch notes. Take a look at what they say about loot drops in NiM operations. Each boss drops loot but ONLY the final boss of each ops drops the BiS gear.

 

In 5.2 PvP will still be the best way to get BiS gear and therefore many raiders will still feel they need to screw up warzones because they don't care about PvP but just want the components because BWA can't do a patch without sneaking in a messed up decision to ruin things again.

 

It was a bad idea of them to give PvP and PvE exactly the same gear and we will still be in the situation that BiS gear is a matter of time played in PvP and beating bosses in NiM which is rather more challenging will not be rewarded with this BiS gear.

 

Think about it. Sure some hardcore guilds will rush through NiM as usual. But the normal progression guilds that actually struggle in NiM will barely get any BiS gear for their efforts, basically pointing them at PvP to get their raid gear together. It's completely ****ed up and they sure as hell didn't mention this before.

 

That's not what the discussion was about though, the discussion was about adding unassembled components to Flashpoints and Uprisings.

[Decidion]

I assume that the ones playing PVE content for the highest gear possible are ops players. If you're not doing operations, why do you need the gear then?

 

Maybe because that is simply your goal in the game or you just simply want to. What difference does it make?

 

All I am asking is to make it as easy to get top end gear by doing only PVE as it is with doing PVP. I don't think that is asking too much.

 

With pvp, you can easily target a specific gear slot. With pve, you are still dealing with RNG and bad rolls on loot. With bad RNG, it is theoretically possible to run a given op indefinitely and never win the piece you are after... this just isn't true with pvp. And with op, I can only run a given op once a week...with pvp, you can run warzone after warzone after warzone.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Decidion

[Drake_Averrod]

You clearly haven't read the patch notes. Take a look at what they say about loot drops in NiM operations. Each boss drops loot but ONLY the final boss of each ops drops the BiS gear.

 

In 5.2 PvP will still be the best way to get BiS gear and therefore many raiders will still feel they need to screw up warzones because they don't care about PvP but just want the components because BWA can't do a patch without sneaking in a messed up decision to ruin things again.

 

It was a bad idea of them to give PvP and PvE exactly the same gear and we will still be in the situation that BiS gear is a matter of time played in PvP and beating bosses in NiM which is rather more challenging will not be rewarded with this BiS gear.

 

Think about it. Sure some hardcore guilds will rush through NiM as usual. But the normal progression guilds that actually struggle in NiM will barely get any BiS gear for their efforts, basically pointing them at PvP to get their raid gear together. It's completely ****ed up and they sure as hell didn't mention this before.

 

While you didn't direct this at me, thank you for pointing this out. I completely missed the fact that NiM bosses prior to last don't drop legendary gear tokens. This is a different problem that imho should be adressed in its own thread however (if enough NiM raiders or people are left that care). I would be all in favour for all NiM bosses to drop yellow tokens. This does not change my opinion on solo/regular pve content handing out components however.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Drake_Averrod

[Tsillah]

That's not what the discussion was about though, the discussion was about adding unassembled components to Flashpoints and Uprisings.

 

Yes, but I was replying to the comment that with 5.2 there would be less of a need to add components to PvE content. I disagree for the reasons I explained.

 

I'm not so sure about Uprisings but for Flash Points it would be a good idea particularly since it will be the first time in years that doing FPs would be rewarding. I am talking about the Hard Mode variant by the way.

[AscendingSky]

You clearly haven't read the patch notes. Take a look at what they say about loot drops in NiM operations. Each boss drops loot but ONLY the final boss of each ops drops the BiS gear.

 

In 5.2 PvP will still be the best way to get BiS gear and therefore many raiders will still feel they need to screw up warzones because they don't care about PvP but just want the components because BWA can't do a patch without sneaking in a messed up decision to ruin things again.

 

It was a bad idea of them to give PvP and PvE exactly the same gear and we will still be in the situation that BiS gear is a matter of time played in PvP and beating bosses in NiM which is rather more challenging will not be rewarded with this BiS gear.

 

Think about it. Sure some hardcore guilds will rush through NiM as usual. But the normal progression guilds that actually struggle in NiM will barely get any BiS gear for their efforts, basically pointing them at PvP to get their raid gear together. It's completely ****ed up and they sure as hell didn't mention this before.

 

Exactly this. EAWare snuck that change in, and it's terrible. But if PvE activities added Unassembled Components, then PvE people could eventually get BiS gear from upgrading lower tier gear just like PvPers, without having to complete the final boss in those few raids that still have Nightmare/Master modes.

 

Just make Unassembled Components the new universal token currency for all activities in game, to give people as many paths for gearing as possible, whether you're a raider, a PvPer, or a solo player. Problem solved.

[Tsillah]

While you didn't direct this at me, thank you for pointing this out. I completely missed the fact that NiM bosses prior to last don't drop legendary gear tokens. This is a different problem that imho should be adressed in its own thread however (if enough NiM raiders or people are left that care). I would be all in favour for all NiM bosses to drop yellow tokens. This does not change my opinion on solo/regular pve content handing out components however.

 

If all NiM bosses drop BiS loot as would be the expectation then there is no need to add unassembled components to PvE. With the current patch notes I think there is and I particularly think that HM FPs would be a good place to award components.

 

I can't help it that when BWA finally does something good, they have to shoot holes into it themselves.

[AscendingSky]

Maybe because that is simply your goal in the game or you just simply want to. What difference does it make?

 

All I am asking is to make it as easy to get top end gear by doing only PVE as it is with doing PVP. I don't think that is asking too much.

 

With pvp, you can easily target a specific gear slot. With pve, you are still dealing with RNG and bad rolls on loot. With bad RNG, it is theoretically possible to run a given op indefinitely and never win the piece you are after... this just isn't true with pvp. And with op, I can only run a given op once a week...with pvp, you can run warzone after warzone after warzone.

 

Also this. There is a hard limit to how many operations a particular character can run in a week due to lockouts, whereas PvPers can spam warzones all day every day. They could even just run off in a corner and AFK if they want and get UCs. So just give PvE quests and bosses UC drops as well to help balance it out.

[Drake_Averrod]

If all NiM bosses drop BiS loot as would be the expectation then there is no need to add unassembled components to PvE. With the current patch notes I think there is and I particularly think that HM FPs would be a good place to award components.

 

I can't help it that when BWA finally does something good, they have to shoot holes into it themselves.

 

I think we are mostly if not completely in agreement that all NiM bosses should drop yellow tokens. And as such this is the change I would like to see. I generally prefered it when HM FPs were a stepping stone on the gear and learning treadmill towards ops/higher difficulities. But I guess that is completely out of the window. So if they change something I would rather have the nim change than the component change (disclaimer: the only nim ops I completed were EV, EC, KP and SnV all NOT at level).

[Tsillah]

I think we are mostly if not completely in agreement that all NiM bosses should drop yellow tokens. And as such this is the change I would like to see. I generally prefered it when HM FPs were a stepping stone on the gear and learning treadmill towards ops/higher difficulities. But I guess that is completely out of the window. So if they change something I would rather have the nim change than the component change (disclaimer: the only nim ops I completed were EV, EC, KP and SnV all NOT at level).

 

Yeah I would prefer what you suggest but I also feel that those options are out the window as you say.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

While I would have supported to make "unassembled components" the new basic commendation at some point, with the changes in 5.2 I think this would be no longer necessary or helpful.

 

With the 5.2 changes we almost have the old system combined with GC. Every player can get the best gear but the fastest way will be specific content. Atleast to me, gear is a reason to keep playing. Improving the character and making him/her more powerful musn't get too easy or you burn through the content too fast.

 

According to my understanding in 5.2 SM ops will drop guaranteed 236 Tokens. Except for maybe Bloodhunt / Rishi HM and Master Story Chapters that should be more than good enough for the below average player to tackle all regular solo and small group content. If you want higher than that you will still have the GC system. If you casually pvp on the side you can further hasten your gear gain.

 

I find better gear should feel like a reward for effort undertaken. Be that either farming/doing different things (GC), killing specific bosses (ops) or farming Components (PVP) , you will get your gear sooner or later. Hence I would be opposed to such a change.

 

 

I think the concern is that BIS gear [Tier 4] will only drop from NiM operations, and the raiding community with the skills to successfully complete repeatedly is quite small these days. 5.0 killed raiding, so many raid groups disbanded when they took gear out of Operations and a lot of raiders left the game because of it.

 

For probably around 85% of the player base [educated guess], completing most NiM Operations with any regularity is out of reach. Pugging NiM really isn't an option. You need a strong, tight raid group with excellent coordination, communication, experience, and skill for taking on that level of content.

 

Even with that said [i was a progression raider prior to 5.0 as well as well as currently a PVPer, raiding being my first love] I'm not sure putting UCs from other content is exactly fair to PVPers as it would give PVEers twice the options than PVPers. - But as NiM is not really a viable option for gearing up BIS gear for most players, that is something that should be considered as that leaves PVEers with only the RNG of command crate as a means of obtaining BIS gear. While the drop rates of set gear will be more frequent than we've seen up until now, the drop rates of BIS gear from command crates post 5.2 will continue to be rare as now. But, IMO BIS gear should be rather hard to aquire. Each camp has valid points regarding UC acquisition. Not exactly sure where I stand on it presently.

 

Than again, I'm an idiot, so you really can't go by me.

[mmmbuddah]

Maybe because that is simply your goal in the game or you just simply want to. What difference does it make?

 

All I am asking is to make it as easy to get top end gear by doing only PVE as it is with doing PVP. I don't think that is asking too much.

 

With pvp, you can easily target a specific gear slot. With pve, you are still dealing with RNG and bad rolls on loot. With bad RNG, it is theoretically possible to run a given op indefinitely and never win the piece you are after... this just isn't true with pvp. And with op, I can only run a given op once a week...with pvp, you can run warzone after warzone after warzone.

 

Getting gear through pvp is easy? Um. Are you madd? It takes eons to get gear through only doing pvp! You can get 4 rng boxes per flashpoint per day if you do it right! And you can dash through those flashpoints in 15 minutes tops. You should not have access to the same gear that people bust their asses to get, through face roll content.