Please improve self-healing from "Thirst for Rage" / "Inspired Focus" utility point

[La_Frite]

Many Marauders/Sentinel friend players and I think self-healing from "Thirst for Rage" / "Inspired Focus" is a bit too low to be an attractive PvP utility point.

Increase the self healing to 1.5% max health could be nice, or change the self-healing mechanism, like a self-healing based on Fury / Centering, example: "you are healed for X% of your maximum health whenever you activate Berserk / Zen."

 

What is your opinion about "Thirst for Rage" / "Inspired Focus" self-healing utility point?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Many Marauders/Sentinel friend players and I think self-healing from "Thirst for Rage" / "Inspired Focus" is a bit too low to be an attractive PvP utility point.

Increase the self healing to 1.5% max health could be nice, or change the self-healing mechanism, like a self-healing based on Fury / Centering, example: "you are healed for X% of your maximum health whenever you activate Berserk / Zen."

 

What is your opinion about "Thirst for Rage" / "Inspired Focus" self-healing utility point?

 

Calling this utility a self-healing is a misnomer. If you can push a button and get heals, that's a self heal, when you have to be hitting someone in order to get it that's not self because u need someone else to do it! heh This is where it really seperates itself from other classes "self heals".

 

If you are gaining any benefits from this utility that means you are fighting and taking damage. The heal is so small that it is virtually impossible actually acrue any positive heal because you are taking far more damage while fight than you could hope to make up from only those attacks which are expending rage/focus.

 

Does it help? Well, it's better than nothing, the truth is I very rarely notice a difference in survival between when I use this untility and when i don't. Add to that that it's not a baseline ability and you find yourself having to choose between one important utlilty and another and we already have so many "must have" utilities just to stay afloat in PVP, what you gain with the one hand you lose with another.

 

This is so below the standards of what other classes have it's almost insulting. Perhaps it's not quite as bad for Annihilation as they have their "self heals" from beserk so perhaps the two together are a bit more meaningful.

 

I'm reluctant to advocate true "self heals" for marauders, it seems to go against the grain of what they are imo and if it were not for pvp I would flat out say they shouldn't have any at all. Marauders are the quindessential 'glass cannon', but I cannot deny with regard to PVP lack of self heals is a very bad thing to have. I personally would rather see Marauder's have their self sustaining survivability addressed with DCDs as needed. But, DCDs, no matter how good they are are fleeting with regard to their active time and their long CDS which leave us a decent amount of the time without any meaningful protection given the average length of a common wz.. But when it comes down to it, you are going to take damage and you are going to take a lot of it, nothing can undo the damage once obtained without self heals.

 

All things considered, your proposal is probably the best way to go about it. What we get from this utility is greatly dwarfed by the heals other classes get in comparison. For PVP it's really a liability being the only class so heal starved. WZs when you're on a team without heals can leave you in a very precarious situation survival wise given the fire squads and the insane slows that limit us breaking LOS effectively [Plasma probe being the worst example of this] we face in most wzs [mercs, snipers]. Which is why we can't hope to keep up with the ranged classes.

 

It's a good proposal, one I'd very much like to see come to pass. That said, unfortunately I don't see it happening. Given marauders reputation for damage dealing, lack of self heals is a good way to keep us down so people who favor ranged and healers would likely be against it.

[verfallen]

Marauder are currently one of the sturdiest class in the game, with very generous dcds, some powerful on short cooldown, an escape on a short cooldown and good mobility normally.

 

I think it could use a few more "baseline" mobility impairing breakers (I think mad dash should break any root or slow effect without further speccing into it for exemple) in the current range heavy meta, and seeing the ammounts of slow and roots those classes have, but as far as its ability to take and tank damage for a bit, its very good as it is.

 

Adding more self-healing to this would require some reworking to reduce the effectiveness of several defensive cooldowns.

[Yezzan]

I'd rather they work on force camouflage: it should take you out of combat and reset your threat (in PVE). In PvE it is supposed to be a "drop threat" ability but for some reason it doesn't ( maybe because it no longer takes you out of combat). In PvP you HAVE to chose two utilities to make force camo effective.

 

I mean this one ability, which is, essentially, your bread-n-butter for restting a fight and gaining the upperhand, has three utilities.

Phantom -Masterful Tier

Expunging Camouflage- Heroic Tier

Hidden Savagery - Legendary Tier

 

Really don't see the point of Hidden Savagery because it would require you to use force camouflage offensively, and I wouldn't use my get-out-of-jail-free card like that. Hidden savagery should just be a regular passive and not a utility.

 

I've never taken thrist of Rage so dunno how to feel about it. Even though any Health back is good, that would actually be a good 6 piece set bonus perk lol

 

The truth of the matter is Marauders are very strong both offensively and defensively, especially with Ruthless Aggressor utility.

[La_Frite]

Marauder/Sentinel had their survivability improved with Ruthless Agressor, i take it all time but it's RNG dependent and i hate RNG like that GC crates. To improve our survivability i suggest:

 

1) Healing on "Thirst for Rage": 8% (or 10%) healing when Berserk is activated.

To have a healing on demand could help us for ex. 8% or 10% isn't huge and could make a difference between life and death like in 1vs1 scenario. We built Fury/Zen when we attack and been attacked (with Brazen), more we take damage, more Fury stacks gained, faster we could have that healing.

 

2) Change on "Ruthless Agressor": give us CC immunity and 60% (or 70%) damage reduction on Force/Tech attacks for 6 seconds.

The actual Ruthless Agressor is a very performant tool but sometimes to have a 100% resist from Force/Tech attacks is a bit OP and sometimes you eat big hit like 30k Heatseeker Missile. IMO having a X% damage reduction from Force/Tech attack is more effecient than a RNG resist.

Edited April 23, 2017 by La_Frite

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Marauder/Sentinel had their survivability improved with Ruthless Agressor, i take it all time but it's RNG dependent and i hate RNG like that GC crates. To improve our survivability i suggest:

 

1) Healing on "Thirst for Rage": 8% (or 10%) healing when Berserk is activated.

To have a healing on demand could help us for ex. 8% or 10% isn't huge and could make a difference between life and death like in 1vs1 scenario. We built Fury/Zen when we attack and been attacked (with Brazen), more we take damage, more Fury stacks gained, faster we could have that healing.

 

2) Change on "Ruthless Agressor": give us CC immunity and 60% (or 70%) damage reduction on Force/Tech attacks for 6 seconds.

The actual Ruthless Agressor is a very performant tool but sometimes to have a 100% resist from Force/Tech attacks is a bit OP and sometimes you eat big hit like 30k Heatseeker Missile. IMO having a X% damage reduction from Force/Tech attack is more effecient than a RNG resist.

 

 

Ruthless Agressor seems to be s sore spot for some on the PVP side of things, there's a thread about it actually, some people calling for nerfs on it if you can believe it. The only class in the game without self heals and they want to mess with out defensives!

 

The thirst of rage idea would be good. It's inherently mitigated by the fact that it isn't a self heal really [you need to be attacking other people for it to do anything so if it is dependent on other people you can't say its a 'self' heal. Plus if you're fighting you are taking damage at the same time, and the small heals from ToR are extremely small considering what incoming damage is like these days.

 

I like the idea on that for ToR, it would be helpful for Marauders in PVP where everyone you are fighting has some self heals. As is, being on a team without a healer makes prolonged survivability extreme difficult at times especially with all the FoTM firing squads that run rampant in WZs. They gave self heals to Snipers the only other [supposed] pure DPS class, a ranged class no less. While objectively it's kinda messed up that there is only one class in the game without self heals, which isn't exactly fair, marauder reputation works against us. We are seen by many as highly aggressive in your face killing machines, and that can be intimidating to some. Marauders don't tend to place a high value on their own lives in their pursuit of high and fast damage which is something they excel at, which I think might be a comfort to some, glass cannons and all. Perception can often trump reality tho. The fact is there is no difference in numbers, snipers do and we do, but people just don't look at them the same way they tend to look at us. Because of that, I think many people are highly resistant to ideas improving our own personal survival. Again, not really fair when you come to the brass tacks of it, but perceptions much like reputations can be hard to live down.

[Ottoattack]

This utility is 100% useless. Even if it heals you from 1-100% in 1 sec, it will only be used in yolo que. In addition, mara is not in need of DCDs. It is not worth the time trying to edit it. Just scrap it all together for something that could be used.

 

I currently only use ruthless aggressor in the legendary tier. Through Victory and Blood Ward are mediocre and every thing else is useless.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This utility is 100% useless. Even if it heals you from 1-100% in 1 sec, it will only be used in yolo que. In addition, mara is not in need of DCDs. It is not worth the time trying to edit it. Just scrap it all together for something that could be used.

 

I currently only use ruthless aggressor in the legendary tier. Through Victory and Blood Ward are mediocre and every thing else is useless.

 

Theres no question that it's not that good. The amounts are extremely small, but, if they raised the amounts as suggested it could make a big difference. When you are the only class without self heals, it matters. DCDs are all well and good but they are fleeting and given the length of the cooldowns for most them [ two at 3 minutes, once of which only lasts for 4 seconds] you spend alot of time during the duration of a WZ without a DCD active and that can't be helped. generalized, if you add up all the CDs we have at their base time, that's 20 seconds within a three minute span, and that;s if you use every DCD you have [Camo is not a DCD, you cannot use while fighting and maintain it's effects save for use as an escape.] . Do the math and it becomes clear you are probably without a dcd active for half the duration of your average WZ if not more.

 

But most important, even that is a seperate consideration because it still doesn't address the fact that we cannot undo the damage we have already sustained and there is nothing that's gonna change that save for healing. Your DCDs might get you through one fight and even if after that you are at 50% that means the next guy who's about to try and cave your skull in at full health already has you half beating without having had to fire a shot. When your enemies can heal themselves and you cannot, your are innately at a disadvantage in the long haul. DCDs cannot stand up to mutliple sources of incoming damage at the same time for long. Even with active DCDs [with the exception of Undying Rage] you will still take damage and you will often take a lot of it. People are well aware of the fact that Marauders cannot heal themselves and smart opponents will use that against you. A Marauder cannot win a battle of attrition. Battles of attrition are won by the side that can replenish the forces they have lost better and faster than their opponents can. (Art Of War 101).

 

I wouldn't mind it so much if Marauders still had top DPS [which they always should as they are a pure DPS class and that's my opinion on that], but they don't. It's still very good, no question about it, but we have several enemies with better DPS than us and who can heal themselves to boot and have insanely good DCDs themselves. No one is going to convince me that Mercs do not clearly have better DCDs than we do, and Snipers are on par with ours in effect but also have healing which we dont.

 

Marauder's are the only true 'pure DPS class' in the game and are the quintessential glass cannon even with our good DCDs. How anyone can justify Marauders not having the best DPS when those that do have it also have great survivability and healing buggers the mind, some of which are ranged no less.

 

I'm not advocating self heals for marauders mind you, I don't think we should have them. But I do think we should have better dps than dps specs that can heal themselves [Not by buffing mara's DPS, but by reducing the DPS of those with self heals and better overall survivability. . I'm advocating other DPS specs to not have them or at very least have them substantially reduced. I find it impossible not to recognize that self-heals directly influence survivability, and in many cases trumps the DCD differences. - You cannot avoid taking damage, you can only try and minimize the damage you will certainly take.

 

If BW is going to continue the precedent of many DPS specs having self heals and strong survivability, we should have better DPS than them. They should scale back DPS of those specs appropriately in a direct ratio of heals to damage. Those heals matter and they matter a lot. It's wrong to single out one class like that. They shouldn't beat us out in so many respects.

 

4.0 Had our DPS standing right. That's where we deserve to be.

Edited April 27, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Ottoattack]

Theres no question that it's not that good. The amounts are extremely small, but, if they raised the amounts as suggested it could make a big difference. When you are the only class without self heals, it matters. DCDs are all well and good but they are fleeting and given the length of the cooldowns for most them [ two at 3 minutes, once of which only lasts for 4 seconds] you spend alot of time during the duration of a WZ without a DCD active and that can't be helped. generalized, if you add up all the CDs we have at their base time, that's 20 seconds within a three minute span, and that;s if you use every DCD you have [Camo is not a DCD, you cannot use while fighting and maintain it's effects save for use as an escape.] . Do the math and it becomes clear you are probably without a dcd active for half the duration of your average WZ if not more.

 

But most important, even that is a seperate consideration because it still doesn't address the fact that we cannot undo the damage we have already sustained and there is nothing that's gonna change that save for healing. Your DCDs might get you through one fight and even if after that you are at 50% that means the next guy who's about to try and cave your skull in at full health already has you half beating without having had to fire a shot. When your enemies can heal themselves and you cannot, your are innately at a disadvantage in the long haul. DCDs cannot stand up to mutliple sources of incoming damage at the same time for long. Even with active DCDs [with the exception of Undying Rage] you will still take damage and you will often take a lot of it. People are well aware of the fact that Marauders cannot heal themselves and smart opponents will use that against you. A Marauder cannot win a battle of attrition. Battles of attrition are won by the side that can replenish the forces they have lost better and faster than their opponents can. (Art Of War 101).

 

I wouldn't mind it so much if Marauders still had top DPS [which they always should as they are a pure DPS class and that's my opinion on that], but they don't. It's still very good, no question about it, but we have several enemies with better DPS than us and who can heal themselves to boot and have insanely good DCDs themselves. No one is going to convince me that Mercs do not clearly have better DCDs than we do, and Snipers are on par with ours in effect but also have healing which we dont.

 

Marauder's are the only true 'pure DPS class' in the game and are the quintessential glass cannon even with our good DCDs. How anyone can justify Marauders not having the best DPS when those that do have it also have great survivability and healing buggers the mind, some of which are ranged no less.

 

I'm not advocating self heals for marauders mind you, I don't think we should have them. But I do think we should have better dps than dps specs that can heal themselves [Not by buffing mara's DPS, but by reducing the DPS of those with self heals and better overall survivability. . I'm advocating other DPS specs to not have them or at very least have them substantially reduced. I find it impossible not to recognize that self-heals directly influence survivability, and in many cases trumps the DCD differences. - You cannot avoid taking damage, you can only try and minimize the damage you will certainly take.

 

If BW is going to continue the precedent of many DPS specs having self heals and strong survivability, we should have better DPS than them. They should scale back DPS of those specs appropriately in a direct ratio of heals to damage. Those heals matter and they matter a lot. It's wrong to single out one class like that. They shouldn't beat us out in so many respects.

 

4.0 Had our DPS standing right. That's where we deserve to be.

 

First off mara has the best dps in PvP. No question.

 

Second, you keep trying to balance the game around yolo que with 4v4 dps. No one gives a crap about that and the game is designed with 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps format.

 

Third, mara has the best survivability among dps in a trinity format. The camo the you called not a DCD is the strongest damage evade skill in the game, considering its CD.

 

And the self heals, even if tied to zen, will be useless in most games that there is a slight hint of competition. I would rather have something that can be considered in competitive PvP or used in PvE. Self heals wont.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Ottoattack

[AndoEyrune]

If you think maras have bad CDs you just aren't playing correctly.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

If you think maras have bad CDs you just aren't playing correctly.

 

I never said we had bad cds, I said we had very good ones.

 

I'm siting the opinion mostly regarding the balance issues between dcds and healing as a factor that effects performace.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

First off mara has the best dps in PvP. No question.

 

Second, you keep trying to balance the game around yolo que with 4v4 dps. No one gives a crap about that and the game is designed with 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps format.

 

Third, mara has the best survivability among dps in a trinity format. The camo the you called not a DCD is the strongest damage evade skill in the game, considering its CD.

 

And the self heals, even if tied to zen, will be useless in most games that there is a slight hint of competition. I would rather have something that can be considered in competitive PvP or used in PvE. Self heals wont.

 

I don't agree with some of your points.

 

Firstly, i said more than once that our damage is very good and I had no complants about that.

 

"Best DPS' in PVP that cannot be measured by damage done totals at the end of the match. Only a parsing program would determine the measure of the dps in totality. The zillion things that effect some one in PVP naturaly effect DPS output, making it even hard to measure. Additionally just as you cannot guage it accurately by WZ results nor can you do so for anyone else. There are way to many variables .for an accurate scientific determination. Uptime, downtime, stuns, deaths, objectives and group compostion always effect you. You can an impression by the total damage done of what it can do, but not everyone posses' the same level of skill.

 

I never complained about our DPS, I've played a carnage marauder for 5 years, I know what it can do. I do very well, I have no complaintts in that regard.

 

The sitings I made were to illustrate certain points. I could care less about ranked and measure nothing by it. I'm speaking purely in terms of regs.

 

What I said about camo is the very same thing you just said, it's best use is for escapes and evades. As a DCD force camo virtually useless while you are actively fighting. You cannot fight while using it. Running away is something else entirely.

 

I Everything i said in my post was about how things are for a mara when you dont have a healer. survivability of every DPS spec is effected by the presense or lack of it as a trinity.

 

With a decent healer backing our survivability is excellent.

 

why your brought up heals when I expressly stated that I don't think they should have them and the one tied to zen is virtually non existent but even that is only tied to one spec.

 

There situations where the DCDs would be better, and others where self healing would be better. I do not feel anyone can say that self heals do no effect PVP greatly. They can make all the difference in the world. Look at mercs look at snipers.

 

If you cannot heal yourself and your opponents can, in the long term the lack of self heals is telling.

 

Our DPS potential does not surpass three other classes nor is it even. There are classes that have the capicity to put out more DPS than we can, whether or not they are skilled enough to do so is an entirely different matter.

 

If marauders have best DPS comment was with regard to Annihiliation a good amount of that is fluff damage and as meaning full. Dot spreads fluff their numbers all the time.

 

My complaints had to do with fairness and had more to do with the state of things with the classes.

 

I'm neither asking for a buff or for self healing. DPS shouldn't have self healing was my point,. That all others do and we are the only ones that don't baffles me.

 

Our dcds are excellent, but they are fleeting. They dont have a great deal of uptime considering the legeth of your average WZ.

 

You may think not having self heals doesn't make a difference regarding survivability, but I do not share that view. I consider it a liability.

 

Snipers can put out greater DPS than we can and also have heals and DCDs up the ***. Ranged can very easily have greater uptime than we can as melee and have less difficulties remaining on target.

 

We're pure DPS. That should matter.

 

If you have self heals, your dps should be proportionally by a ratio.

 

PVE is an entirely different matter and a whole other beast. No issues there.Marauders are excellent and that is why it is the only class I've played for years. You don't need to sell me on it eheh

Edited April 28, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[thepilk]

I currently only use ruthless aggressor in the legendary tier. Through Victory and Blood Ward are mediocre and every thing else is useless.

 

Ive grown to really really like Ward in PVP. 6 second immunity to most CCs on demand has a lot of value, and the heal value is a good deal for its duration. Assuming youre under constant pressure it restores 36% of your healths value though its duration (adjusted against the damage per hit). if you combine it with Pacify a lot of those incoming attacks miss making it pure net-gain heals, and if you have Agressor/Judgment the tech/force resist from pacify stacks with saber ward's causing almost full gain heals from those sources in most cases.

 

I started using Zealous Ward awhile back just to tinker with it, and now its hard for me to not take it when i dabble my build around.