Stacking of sniper AoE - worse than stacking of smash

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Tell me how 1-2 snipers per match makes them FOTM? But 3 Sorc healers or 4 Sins or 3 Maras don't make them FOTM. I see way more of those combinations than I see 3 snipers.

 

I think Icy is making a very valid point here. I think people are confusing terms here. There is Flavor of The Month [FOTM - Not FlavorS of the month] and there is a class being OP. Often times these are synonomus, but that's open to some interpretation.

 

Mercs are FOTM. You see them everywhere in ridiculous numbers. You do not see as many Snipers are you see mercs.

 

What some of us are saying is that Snipers are OP right now, especially Engineering. They are common but you are not seeing 4 and 5 snipers on a team in regs most of the time like you so see with mercs. There are times when you only see one or two snipers, although seeing three on occasion isn't gonna make you make a double take. We are seeing more right of the engineering snipers because of Plasma probe becoming all the rage and just wrecking wzs spamming it, but this is a relatively new occurrence probably only in the last month or so are you seeing engineering snipers more and more.

 

You can't really call a class FOTM it's only been going on for a month heh. Snipers are not as common as Mercs and you are just as likely to see two assys or two sorcs as you are to see two snipers.

 

While I may disagree with Icy regarding the state of Snipers being OP especially against Melee, I really do think shes right about them being FOTM status. Mercs really got that market cornered right now. The thing is it really only takes one or two engineering snipers to monopolize the movement of the enemy team, two's more than enough control the entire battle field, hence why many of us feel they are OP right now.

 

I think you make an important distinction Icy.

[Icykill_]

I think Icy is making a very valid point here. I think people are confusing terms here. There is Flavor of The Month [FOTM - Not FlavorS of the month] and there is a class being OP. Often times these are synonomus, but that's open to some interpretation.

 

Mercs are FOTM. You see them everywhere in ridiculous numbers. You do not see as many Snipers are you see mercs.

 

What some of us are saying is that Snipers are OP right now, especially Engineering. They are common but you are not seeing 4 and 5 snipers on a team in regs most of the time like you so see with mercs. There are times when you only see one or two snipers, although seeing three on occasion isn't gonna make you make a double take. We are seeing more right of the engineering snipers because of Plasma probe becoming all the rage and just wrecking wzs spamming it, but this is a relatively new occurrence probably only in the last month or so are you seeing engineering snipers more and more.

 

You can't really call a class FOTM it's only been going on for a month heh. Snipers are not as common as Mercs and you are just as likely to see two assys or two sorcs as you are to see two snipers.

 

While I may disagree with Icy regarding the state of Snipers being OP especially against Melee, I really do think shes right about them being FOTM status. Mercs really got that market cornered right now. The thing is it really only takes one or two engineering snipers to monopolize the movement of the enemy team, two's more than enough control the entire battle field, hence why many of us feel they are OP right now.

 

I think you make an important distinction Icy.

 

Ive had a massive game session today and still going, I've been playing for 25 hours and I can tell you first hand that the most snipers/GS I've seen on one team was 3 and that was only one game. Most games I've been the only sniper/GS on the team. I'd say about 10% of my matches had two of us on the team and also about 50% of matches had 1-2 snipers on the other side.

I've taken scoreboard pictures of a heap of games today so I can go back and check. I think I can safely say Snipers/GS aren't even 15% of the classes in matches, it's closer to 10% or less.

If you don't believe me I will try and edit out all the names on the scoreboards and post some so you can see what I mean.

From what I can see, Sorcs, both dps and heals come in second place in quantity after Mercs, followed closely by Sins and Maras, then Operatives and Juggs. Even PTs are more numerous than snipers.

Snipers aren't FOTM or even close to it. They also aren't the big bad wolf everyone is making them out to be. I can tell you that most players with brains have been focusing me all day over healers. Even with all the snipers bells and whistles you don't last long against 2-5 people ganking you. Most of them are Sins and Maras and they have absolutely no problems with getting through plasma probe. Most sins don't even stop for stuns these days, so plasma probe does nothing.

I've seen maybe 5 people QQ about snipers today, but everyone QQs just about every match about Mercs and Sorc healers. I've even seen them QQ about Maras and Sins more than snipers. Out of those 5 people who QQd about snipers, 2 were Mercs saying I was hacking because they couldn't kill me and snipers need to be nerfed anyway. After hearing that and also seeing how bad players are, especially Mercs, it makes me think that a lot of this sniper QQ is from bad Mercs who want to deflect attention so they don't get nerfed.

Like I've been saying, tactics, tactics, tactics and strategy. Objective pvp is "team" pvp, you know, work together to achieve your goals. That's how you kill snipers or shut them down. People need to learn to focus targets and focus target of target. ie find your highest hitting and most coordinated team mate and you can follow their focus if you can't keep up. It should be hotkeyed anyway if you're a Keybinder and even clickers usually have it active.

I'll agree that Juggs are having a hard time staying on snipers, but they are the only ones I think have a ledgitmate case. Which means if your a Jugg, use your brain and let someone else engage the snipers while you do what Juggs do best, smash healers.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Ive had a massive game session today and still going, I've been playing for 25 hours and I can tell you first hand that the most snipers/GS I've seen on one team was 3 and that was only one game. Most games I've been the only sniper/GS on the team. I'd say about 10% of my matches had two of us on the team and also about 50% of matches had 1-2 snipers on the other side.

I've taken scoreboard pictures of a heap of games today so I can go back and check. I think I can safely say Snipers/GS aren't even 15% of the classes in matches, it's closer to 10% or less.

If you don't believe me I will try and edit out all the names on the scoreboards and post some so you can see what I mean.

From what I can see, Sorcs, both dps and heals come in second place in quantity after Mercs, followed closely by Sins and Maras, then Operatives and Juggs. Even PTs are more numerous than snipers.

Snipers aren't FOTM or even close to it. They also aren't the big bad wolf everyone is making them out to be. I can tell you that most players with brains have been focusing me all day over healers. Even with all the snipers bells and whistles you don't last long against 2-5 people ganking you. Most of them are Sins and Maras and they have absolutely no problems with getting through plasma probe. Most sins don't even stop for stuns these days, so plasma probe does nothing.

I've seen maybe 5 people QQ about snipers today, but everyone QQs just about every match about Mercs and Sorc healers. I've even seen them QQ about Maras and Sins more than snipers. Out of those 5 people who QQd about snipers, 2 were Mercs saying I was hacking because they couldn't kill me and snipers need to be nerfed anyway. After hearing that and also seeing how bad players are, especially Mercs, it makes me think that a lot of this sniper QQ is from bad Mercs who want to deflect attention so they don't get nerfed.

Like I've been saying, tactics, tactics, tactics and strategy. Objective pvp is "team" pvp, you know, work together to achieve your goals. That's how you kill snipers or shut them down. People need to learn to focus targets and focus target of target. ie find your highest hitting and most coordinated team mate and you can follow their focus if you can't keep up. It should be hotkeyed anyway if you're a Keybinder and even clickers usually have it active.

I'll agree that Juggs are having a hard time staying on snipers, but they are the only ones I think have a ledgitmate case. Which means if your a Jugg, use your brain and let someone else engage the snipers while you do what Juggs do best, smash healers.

 

 

Player population based on server probably plays a part in the ratios. Servers with higher populations [ Harbinger, the Shadowlands, etc.] may have larger pvp populations and thus may account for the experience of some in how many snipers [and other classes] are more commonly found in the day to day.

 

I am not discounting your findings, all I can say is that I do tend to find the frequency and number of snipers abit higher than your experience. I play on the Shadowlands, so perhaps that may because of a bigger population. As stated earlier, I do agree with, their frequency and numbers do not lend to them being considered FOTM. You do not see them in the kinds of numbers you see with Mercs. Where we disagree is in their power level and in them being a problem on for juggs.

 

As a carnage marauder for the last 5 years with a full understanding of the class, I can tell you first hand, that is is impossible to stay on a sniper [assuming they are competant with their class/spec] with any regularity enough of the time to pose any real threat to them if they are paying you attention. In this regard I am speaking of all sniper specs [Engineering is simply even more difficult in this regard]. 1v1, melee without perma stealth stand no chance against a properly played sniper [again assuming skill levels are roughly on par]. To blame any one aspect in the snipers arsenal for this would be misleading, it's not just because of slows, or CCs or defenses. It is the combination of all these things that lead to this overwhelming advantage they possess over melee. Even given some uptime on them, their defensives and self healing are far to strong and in someways this is even worse for marauders because they have no self healing, and a sniper can mitigate an heal so much damage that they can essentially outlast you because the damage they are doing to you isn't going anywhere. Your staying damage and they keep you away and can just popshot you at a distance while you cannot get back to them before they have done a heap more damage to you too boot.

 

Movement impairment breakers, even if you spec yourself with as many are available, have no effect on hard stuns, mezzes, and knockbacks, all of which a sniper has in spades in addition to slows. Add to this their ability to roll, their immunity to CCs and interupts and being unable to leap to them, leaves many melee with very little recourse to overcome a sniper who is paying them attention. At it's core, the problem is one of Uptime. When an enemy can attack you and you cannot attack them, it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math on that one heh. They can keep you out of striking distance with a fair amount of ease, at that little time you might get to bang away at em is met with extremely strong defenses and self heals no DPS, let alone a supposed "pure" DPS has any business having. Between their abundent CCs, there tank like defenses, and very decent self heals, they have the ability to cycle these things so as to always have an answer to a melee's attempts.

 

The only way a melee is staying on a sniper is if that sniper lets them.

 

Certainly they can be killed, a few people attacking a sniper can certainly put them down, no question about it, but that goes for any class of any spec. They are not OP like mercs are. Mercs are OP across the board, Snipers are OP against melee. - - A Fury mara may have a much better time of it and melee with perma stealth [Assy, Operatives] have it easier against a sniper as well. But there are Juggs, Maras [other two specs], and PTs to consider. - There are plenty of snipers out there who are rerollers and so you won't find some all that difficult to overcome. It's usually pretty easy to tell if they are one or not very early on by seeing how long they are letting you stay near them. The ones that let u sit on them, you can wipe the floor with them, much like Merc rerollers.

 

Tactics and forming battle plans can be very effective, I agree with you there and can overcome a lot of difficulties, the only issue with that is that it can be difficult to pull off in pugs because typing with any frequency takes you out of the fight, things are fluid and changes come fast, and many players are often just doing their own thing. Being in VC is a huge boon and with that and some team orientated players, you can overcome a lot of obstacles.

 

I know you play a Fury Mara, you might for interest sake try switching to one of the other specs for a while and seeing how you fair against competent snipers. I strongly suspect you will find against a well played sniper you stand very little chance and against engineering snipers, very little hope of having much say as to how much control you have over your own movement.

 

You are nothing if not fair, and I'd take you at your word.

Edited April 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Elusive_Thing]

A3) Totally agree with you, even if ballistic shield is on a 3m cooldown, it's still a 60% heal. We have a 10% heal utility on covered escape. The covered escape heal is pretty much all we needed. Get rid of the 60% heal, or at the very least drop it to 20% or somet like that, and it'll be fine. Realistically, we only need a bit of healing because the insanity of the sorc healers. With sorc healers being OP in 4.0 it meant melee had a lot more uptime against us, that does cause us problems. There's such a fine line on balance between melee and ranged, quite often that balance can be destroyed even if our two classes are left completely alone.

The DR boost isn't bad either, it just highlights the massive heal even more. I do agree that changes to Ballistic Shield heal and rolling back Plasma Probe radius buff would solve a lot of the gripes people have. At least it would be curious to see it in action. You also pointed out the Countermeasures speed buff utility, which also has the Series of Shots knockback attached to it, which makes things even harder for melee.

 

As such, I think Snipers should have an advantage over melee classes, especially in those rare 1 vs. 1 situations. The cover mechanic is pretty much designed exactly for that. The current situation, however, is just ridiculous and I think the changes you've suggested look like they'd still keep Snipers in the game and make the Warzones much more tolerable for other classes as well. Good suggestions from you, nice to read the perspective of an esteemed Sniper.

[Elsabeth]

Plasma Probe is great for objective play - but it doesn't tend to stop melee too much. Most good Mara's i fight never have a problem getting and staying close.

 

And ballistic shield is a slow heal over time - just get the sniper to move.

 

And the more snipers there are - the less good they become (evenly spread across teams). Diversion kills a sniper.

(edited to be less confrontational)

Edited April 11, 2017 by Elsabeth

[Elusive_Thing]

Plasma Probe is great for objective play - but it doesn't tend to stop melee too much. Most good Mara's i fight never have a problem getting and staying close.

 

And ballistic shield is a slow heal over time - just get the sniper to move.

 

And the more snipers there are - the less good they become (evenly spread across teams). Diversion kills a sniper.

(edited to be less confrontational)

If you can't keep the Marauders at bay, your Sniper gameplay needs improving.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Plasma Probe is great for objective play - but it doesn't tend to stop melee too much. Most good Mara's i fight never have a problem getting and staying close.

 

And ballistic shield is a slow heal over time - just get the sniper to move.

 

And the more snipers there are - the less good they become (evenly spread across teams). Diversion kills a sniper.

(edited to be less confrontational)

 

If you are already in striking range of the engineering sniper and plasma probe is on top of you, of course it doesn't matter, if you don't need to move slow isn't really an issue. Until of course the sniper rolls and now you can't move faster than a snail and he pops another slow on you, resets the plasma probe between where you are and he is are and than proceeds to blow half your skull off. You can't leap to him, your already slowed, with a worser slow field in between you and he/she [sniper], you can't break line of sight very possibly, so he gets to shoot you into a 1000 peices and you cannot attack back. That plasma probe, is never going away except to intercept you when you try a different route to get the sniper. If you do manage to get to the sniper again, you enter the plasma probe thats in between you, use your breaker so overcome the slow, it's largely irrelivant, because you are just going to be met with a knockback that also has the extra added bonus of having a root, which now because u just used your breaker to get thru the sniper's plasma probe slow, you can do nothing about. Guess what the sniper is doing through all of this? Guess what you can't do back in return?

 

They can rinse and repeat this all day long.

 

As far as "moving the sniper". How? Not like you can knock them back, or interupt them, or CC them.

 

Fury Marauders have an easier time of it because of their built in 'anti-cc' passives. The other two specs can't keep up with the spammability of plasma probe because even if you use your breaker they can just instantly put down a new plasma probe now you don't have your breaker.

 

The only snipers marauders can stay near are the snipers that let them.

Edited April 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Northernian]

Assassins are great sniper hunters. Approach them from behind, zap them, or low slash. Use force speed to escape plasma probe (sorcerer's cooldowns are better on this). Use force cloak, approach from behind and zap them again.

 

There are tons of ways to bring down a Sniper and I don't think they cause much issue apart from, say, Odessen Proving Grounds where you fight in close quarters and if they put a plasma probe at a gate.

 

At Begeren Colony, I see a few snipers here and there, but not 3-4 of them stacking and spamming plasma probe. A few do yeah, but they aren't a full squadron. The ability is annoying as hell but it doesn't really take the pleasure out of PvP....i guess it's different in other servers.

 

I'm far more upset with sorc's inability to put enough dps.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Northernian

[Elusive_Thing]

Assassins are great sniper hunters. Approach them from behind, zap them, or low slash. Use force speed to escape plasma probe (sorcerer's cooldowns are better on this). Use force cloak, approach from behind and zap them again.

Just no.

[Icykill_]

Plasma Probe is great for objective play - but it doesn't tend to stop melee too much. Most good Mara's i fight never have a problem getting and staying close.

 

And ballistic shield is a slow heal over time - just get the sniper to move.

 

And the more snipers there are - the less good they become (evenly spread across teams). Diversion kills a sniper.

(edited to be less confrontational)

 

Thank you, finally someone who understands.

[BigDumbViking]

Stacking any class is bad. How about a bunch of Sorc healers or a 4 man Sin death squad? Stop asking for nerfs based on class stacking. There is no basis for it.

 

This... over and over again.

 

Ever faced 3 mara team? The burst plus root and stun immunity plus super speed... Stacked mercs? hell, even a stack of guardian/jug skank tanks. Any class stacked will cause problems if they are played correctly.

[Sargrith]

Plasma Probe is great for objective play - but it doesn't tend to stop melee too much. Most good Mara's i fight never have a problem getting and staying close.

 

And ballistic shield is a slow heal over time - just get the sniper to move.

 

And the more snipers there are - the less good they become (evenly spread across teams). Diversion kills a sniper.

(edited to be less confrontational)

 

I strongly disagree with nearly everything you are saying.

 

Plasma probe is great, for all play. You can slow a healer so your melee can help burn them, you can log jam a melee group and make them easy pickings for you and any other AoE people. If you think stealthers are about they make great protection just center it on yourself the stealther might get to you but they are new slowed and you can roll away and drop it again on them so they can't even stealth out easily. Plasma probe rocks for all play.

 

Forcing a gunslinger to move is no small feet. With my defenses I can just stand there and let melee try and fail to threaten me for a while before rolling away and repositioning. Ballistic shield is awesome, making my gunslinger move from it is not an easy thing at all.

 

As for Maras being an issue....no they are not. There are a few really good ones I face and besides them escaping death they are no serious threat to me without a pocket healer or in groups, even in groups I can usually get one before they get me because they get slowed, knocked back, pinned, and rolled away from for a good while. Now if they have help from a sniper who breaks my cover that changes things, for a bit. My dodge and shield still buy me time so that Mara's window to get me isn't that big and if I can regain cover the Mara is beat.

 

You have two or three sab gunslingers and melee might as well go home. They wont ever be moving even normal speed and if they even get close they will get thrown back over and over again. Its brutal if those gunslingers work together at all its just brutal.

 

I played my gunslinger last night, it was incredible. There weren't five gunslinger per match like you sometimes see with commandos and sages but not one time did either team have none and most had two per side or more. FOTM...who cares but OP....yeah big time. Gunslinger defenses are too good, and the fire field needs to do less damage be smaller and not have a slow.

[Sargrith]

I

This... over and over again.

 

Ever faced 3 mara team? The burst plus root and stun immunity plus super speed... Stacked mercs? hell, even a stack of guardian/jug skank tanks. Any class stacked will cause problems if they are played correctly.

 

Right above your post Icy is pointing out how "right on" a poster is who is saying stacking gunslingers is meaningless...now she is saying any stacked class is brutal....lets just say Icy is supporting her class and protecting its place in the sun right now.

 

The plasma probe is an issue and changing it only reduces the strength of one build of the class. We aren't talking crushing the class' viability as dirty fighting still does well in PvP without it. Sharpshooter could use more dps, being one of the lowest in the game right now.

 

I would happily take on three Mara with two sab gunslingers, and I feel good about my chances. Very good. And assassin death squads....what in an area match? Its not me verse 4 people, I have teammates. They will help even if I am the focus. Hell happened last night with 2 assassins and 2 mercs determined to burn my gunslinger first. The commando on my team healed me, the guardian taunted the assassins to reduce my damage and the sentinel went after the one merc to drive him off. I survived because I am not alone out there, but also because I have awesome defenses, can slow those assassins and knock them all over, and have decent self heals and excellent burst. If they had focused the poor guardian he would have been toast....

Edited April 12, 2017 by Sargrith

[Elsabeth]

Force dash back to the sniper after the Knock-back? (if you are not already immune) - use terrain, put your back against the wall.

 

Or Predation? (or Grenade and charge)

 

Root sniper, no roll. Chop, Chop, Chop.

 

Obsfucate shuts down a sniper for 6 seconds.

 

If you was a Jugg or PT then i could understand.

[Elsabeth]

I am just thinking how quick 3 mara vs 2 engi snipers would be (probably the duration of an entrench).

 

One of those snipers is getting globalled.

 

And the problem is Plasma Probe? not 4+ Mercs per WZ, Unkillable guarded healers or Troll operatives?

Edited April 12, 2017 by Elsabeth

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This... over and over again.

 

Ever faced 3 mara team? The burst plus root and stun immunity plus super speed... Stacked mercs? hell, even a stack of guardian/jug skank tanks. Any class stacked will cause problems if they are played correctly.

 

There is some truth to this. Any class that is overly represented can cause problems when stacked. That said..

 

Mercs are constantly stacked in WZs, seeing 5 mercs on one time not at all uncommon. Wherein a snowball has a chance in hell and you find only one merc on a team, it does not make them any less OP. That one merc is still overpowered. That one merc is still more than able to face[tank] two opponents at the same time and stand a very good chance of defeating them. This is no less true of any Sniper [of any spec] who is competant in his class.

Plasma Probe is not a stand alone feature. Any Sniper who has the ability to use plasma probe, also has insane defensive capabilities rivaled only by Mercs. The still possess heals that rival any other dps in the game save mercs and are in fact more reliable than a mercs because a sniper's heals are gaurenteed and do not require any outside influence to work. [This from a supposed "pure dps class" no less].

Futhermore, as a melee, I would much rather face a merc than a sniper, if for no other reason than at least against a merc, I am able to hit back. A properly played sniper who pays attention to a melee opponent can render that melee opponent unable to hit back 90% of the time period. - I'm not exactly sure on what planet that seems fair, but not being able to hit back when you are getting potshotted constantly by a sniper is the stand alone feature that worst represents their OP status. I fully agree that a sniper is less OP against other Ranged opponents, but against melee they maintain complete superiority. Melee with perma stealth may have an easier time of it, yes, but, the second they become visable they are in the same boat as any other melee generally speaking.

 

Regarding plasma probe. This may very well be, at least in my opinion, the cheesiest, most unreasonably OP ability in the game presently if for no other reason than it is spammable, has no CD, can be maintained 100% of the time [thus making it an attack that never ends] cannot be interupted or stopped by anything else other than the sniper who placed it themself. A 70% slow, renders it virtually impossible to effect at kind of reasonable attempt to try and break LOS. Given that WZs are virtual groups of firesquads now with the amount of mercs running around [we mustn't forget the snipers that may be present as well], melee who are 70% slowed loss the only possible defense against ranged fire which is without question coming from multiple sources. Any team that has engineering snipers are mercs are working in unison. The mercs know that the sniper is going to keep the melee perma slowed and they are just gonna stand back and are going to "Atttention! ...Aim!...Fire!!" over and over again. - Plasma Probe renders any amount of movement controlling breakers largely useless. You use your breaker to break free of the slow, they just drop a brand new one right on top of you [you being one or more] again, thus resettting the plasma probe and you are 70% slowed all over again, and they can just keep on doing that til your run out of breakers, which in most cases won't take very long. - That's fair. - And that is just one Engineering sniper.

 

If none of that makes the point of Plasma probe being OP here's one more little reason that should bring the point home.

 

You put one engineering sniper on any node or objective that requires a channel of any length of time, and you render that objective 100% unattainable by any number of enemy forces.It is impossible for them to obtain the objective.

 

If an enemy team has two competant engineering snipers, in a void star, or NC, Ancient Hypergate, or Alderaan, and your team does not, you cannot win that match due solely to plasma probe.

 

There is a reason you are seeing engineering snipers gaurded with alarming frequency of late, arguably the class that needs gaurding in a WZ the least, it's because of plasma probe. This one strategical use of it alone makes it game breaking.

 

There are common, known choke points in most WZs. [Doors in voidstar, center node on Alderaan, areas in front and within the mortar emplacements in NC, etc.], guess where those plasma probes are going to put habitually time after time? That's not fun. That's why people keep dropping from the WZs. Fun for the sniper, I'm sure.

Maybe you don't mind spending 85% of a warzone constantly slowed, but, I gotta tell ya, kinda kills the fun.

 

P.S. - I wasn't aware that Marauders had stun immunity, perhaps you could share this with me because I've been getting stunned on occassion for the last 5+ years as a carnage mara!

Edited April 12, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Elsabeth]

I've obviously lost my spammable Uber Instant heal on my sniper. I have one heal over time (3k hp/s) on a 2 minute cool down and a 10k heal on a 20 second cooldown.

 

"One Sniper on an objective can hold it indefinitely" - only if you stand there and try and spam cap the objective. Just kill the sniper. (have you ever tried capping versus a competent operative? Or a tank, or a healer)

 

You can also cap NC with Plasma Probe down.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Elsabeth

[Sargrith]

I've obviously lost my spammable Uber Instant heal on my sniper. I have one heal over time (3k hp/s) on a 2 minute cool down and a 10k heal on a 20 second cooldown.

 

"One Sniper on an objective can hold it indefinitely" - only if you stand there and try and spam cap the objective. Just kill the sniper. (have you ever tried capping versus a competent operative? Or a tank, or a healer)

 

You can also cap NC with Plasma Probe down.

 

You can take a utility to get another heal over time built into taking cover should you need it.

 

Mara's can take a utility to get a brief stun immunity. Its helpful but on a long recharge so some don't even bother with it, others swear by it. It lasts I think 6 second on a 3 minute recharge. So up nearly as much as the sniper version.......

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I've obviously lost my spammable Uber Instant heal on my sniper. I have one heal over time (3k hp/s) on a 2 minute cool down and a 10k heal on a 20 second cooldown.

 

"One Sniper on an objective can hold it indefinitely" - only if you stand there and try and spam cap the objective. Just kill the sniper. (have you ever tried capping versus a competent operative? Or a tank, or a healer)

 

You can also cap NC with Plasma Probe down.

 

This is quoted from the Engineering Sniper guide for 5.0 on Dulfy, I'm assuming it's correct -

 

"Defensive Safeguards: When Ballistic Shield is activated you gain a charge of Defensive Safeguards for each enemy inside your Ballistic Shield, up to 4. This effect lasts 20 seconds (the full duration of Ballistic Shield) and each charge increases your damage reduction by 5%. In addition, while inside your Ballistic Shield, you heal for 3% of your maximum health every second and you are immune to being pulled or knocked back.

 

This is probably the most overpowered utility a Sniper has, it makes you almost unkillable while inside your Ballistic Shield. If you are fighting a melee, that player needs to be inside your Ballistic Shield to attack you which just increases your damage reduction even more. The heal you receive from taking this utility adds up to a 60% heal over the duration of 20 seconds which is incredible. This utility is an absolute MUST."

 

Unless your total health is 60,000, I think you are probably getting slightly more than a 10k heal. - A 60% heal for a "pure dps class" with tank like defensives?

 

With regard to your "just kill the sniper" advice - You will also note the passage from the same description listed above "This is probably the most overpowered utility a Sniper has, it makes you almost unkillable while inside your Ballistic Shield.". - Add to that the ever growing use on guarding engineering snipers, to say nothing if there is a healer present, killing sniper's is not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do for melee. {Assuming the sniper is competent, plenty of rerollers running around who are no trouble to take out at all]. The thing about killing snipers is, you have to get near them and stay near them for a bit. Even a half way decent sniper should have no trouble keeping a melee at bay. Plasma probe helps in that regard.

[Elsabeth]

the 2% every 3 seconds - that is 700 heal per second, probably the worst heal in the game (and not many people end up taking it).

 

Does that makes us better healers than Juggs, Operative DPS heal, Sin and Merc DPS?

 

So much misinformation in this thread- I agree that Plasma Probe is awesome for objective play, but that is what the Engi class has always been good for. It sacrifices sniper burst for that utility. It is not much different from an operative being able to keep 4 people from capping.

 

I do object to the 'snipers' are un-killable, healing, burst uber machines that people are making them out to be.

[Elsabeth]

It is a 60% heal over 20 seconds. So works out to be approximately 3,600 heal per second. Not bad, but certainly not the best heal in the game (the 10-12k heal is from the roll) - and usable once every 2 minutes.

 

It's a good one on one defense - but really sucks in preventing multiple DPS who can just burn through the shield (where as Jugg/Merc protects against the multiple attackers).

 

So not sure how that equates to 'tank like defenses" and "best dps heal in the game"

[Sargrith]

It is a 60% heal over 20 seconds. So works out to be approximately 3,600 heal per second. Not bad, but certainly not the best heal in the game (the 10-12k heal is from the roll) - and usable once every 2 minutes.

 

It's a good one on one defense - but really sucks in preventing multiple DPS who can just burn through the shield (where as Jugg/Merc protects against the multiple attackers).

 

So not sure how that equates to 'tank like defenses" and "best dps heal in the game"

 

Jugg heals require you to be foolish and keep hitting them with non-AoEs. Once you see the jugg is healing stop with the direct single target damage, its not that hard. I mean just use your AoE fire field that slows them for instance.....Compare gunslinger defenses to vangard or jugg....espically if we are talking dps versions and gunslingers come out ahead nicely.

 

Merc have better defenses then anyone, even tanks right now so yeah...they have great defenses.

[Sargrith]

the 2% every 3 seconds - that is 700 heal per second, probably the worst heal in the game (and not many people end up taking it).

 

Does that makes us better healers than Juggs, Operative DPS heal, Sin and Merc DPS?

 

So much misinformation in this thread- I agree that Plasma Probe is awesome for objective play, but that is what the Engi class has always been good for. It sacrifices sniper burst for that utility. It is not much different from an operative being able to keep 4 people from capping.

 

I do object to the 'snipers' are un-killable, healing, burst uber machines that people are making them out to be.

 

Better healers then Juggs to be sure. Jugg healing requires the other team to fail to pay attention.

 

Really sacrifices burst? Compared to what other class? Not Juggs, not assassins, not sorcs, maybe the right merc, maybe but I don't think so. Operatives are yeah they are hitting really hard right now.....

 

No class should be able to hold a nod verse 4 for any length of time, that operatives and sins can is a big problem but doesn't detract from the issue that a eng sniper can as well. All three are not a good thing, all three need to be made unable to do it.

 

The reason eng snipers are now seen as an issue is before you didn't care about the probe be re-applied you just went after the sniper to end that, now sniper defenses are too good to make that a quick kill so now the probe is a problem.

 

Again no class should be able to hold a nod for any length of time against 4 others.

[jedcjedcjedc]

The sad fact is these guys are probably not competent snipers. snipers played right can beat any class in the game that comes at them. I see a lot of snipers on my server, yet strangely enough, I don't get hit by much ambush or cull. there is a lot of these strange fires spreading in the middle of the field though, but that's probably nothing. Engi is trash tier, of course.

[Elsabeth]

Jugg heals require you to be foolish and keep hitting them with non-AoEs. Once you see the jugg is healing stop with the direct single target damage, its not that hard. I mean just use your AoE fire field that slows them for instance.....Compare gunslinger defenses to vangard or jugg....espically if we are talking dps versions and gunslingers come out ahead nicely.

 

Merc have better defenses then anyone, even tanks right now so yeah...they have great defenses.

 

At least we can agree Vanguard is in a bad spot (switch a Merc defenses to Vanguard). Jugg does bring some taunt utility to a group - but tends to be pretty squishy (although i see them often top dps charts in 8v8) - although having an ability that says "stop hitting me" is a pretty good defense (100% direct dmg reduction). Operative and Sin also have some nice defenses too.

 

Anyway - I personally believe that snipers will self regulate - you have too many in a warzone and they become useless.