This is why PVP is unbalanced.

[Vember]

So if the the entire rest of your team managed a paltry 2.6k dps (even if aoe because it still has to be healed), then health bars would start dropping and people would die. There are self heals on the enemy team that will help them though, so least say if the entire rest of your team does 4K dps. That isn't hard at all.

 

Yea, that's a great scenario, if there's only one healer. Introduce more than one on a team, and the imbalance really starts to rear it's ugly head. This is why healers can't be overbalanced against dps, because more than one throws everything out of whack. Since we don't have any sort of matchmaking whatsoever, healers need to be toned down. If that means less healers playing, fine. Pvp these days is a lot more enjoyable when there are no healers present at all.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Vember

[Kirpputori]

healers need to be toned down.

yeah, i guess only way to fix it is nerfing heals. Since everyone seems so unwilling to git gud

If that means less healers playing, fine. Pvp these days is a lot more enjoyable when there are no healers present at all.

maybe to you, but not for all. also, i don't see them nerfing heals bcos couple dudes are saying in forums "heals too stronk, can't kill. nerf pls"

[jedcjedcjedc]

Healers have to focus on 8 people. A dps has to focus on one. this is why 7k dps is not a norm. hell, 7k healing isn't even a norm, it usually tops around 6-6.5k at most.

 

Now also keep in mind that this is end of game numbers. in burst phases, damage is far exceeding end of game listed dps. The healer has to deal with keeping 2+ people off him while not dying himself (or else he isn't really being useful to his job) while also having to manage the rest of his team. eating 8-9k dps while having to worry about 2-3 wounded teamates as well as yourself falls completely flat if you balance 1-1

[shyroman]

Yea, that's a great scenario, if there's only one healer. Introduce more than one on a team, and the imbalance really starts to rear it's ugly head. This is why healers can't be overbalanced against dps, because more than one throws everything out of whack. Since we don't have any sort of matchmaking whatsoever, healers need to be toned down. If that means less healers playing, fine. Pvp these days is a lot more enjoyable when there are no healers present at all.

 

Ok, so now there's 2 healers (let's say they're both pulling 7k hps) now total hps is 14k for healers (let's use 16k when bringing in the self heals for the rest of the team, 2k extra is on the high end). So 16k - 4.4k = 11.6k needed by the rest of your team. Let's also say things are balanced and your team has 2 healers (to determine how many other dps are on your team) and 1 player is guarding, so you have 4 other dps fighting with you. 11.6k / 4 = 2.9k dps. It's almost like that's a perfectly reasonable amount to ask from a decent dps when we're using hps numbers from a decent healer (roughly equal skill levels).

 

Any more than 2 healers no longer lets the "healers op" argument to be used since this game is balanced around 2 healers for every 8 people. That territory is where the matchmaking argument comes in.

Edited March 14, 2017 by shyroman

[snave]

Ok, so now there's 2 healers (let's say they're both pulling 7k hps) now total hps is 14k for healers (let's use 16k when bringing in the self heals for the rest of the team, 2k extra is on the high end). So 16k - 4.4k = 11.6k needed by the rest of your team. Let's also say things are balanced and your team has 2 healers (to determine how many other dps are on your team) and 1 player is guarding, so you have 4 other dps fighting with you. 11.6k / 4 = 2.9k dps. It's almost like that's a perfectly reasonable amount to ask from a decent dps when we're using hps numbers from a decent healer (roughly equal skill levels).

 

Any more than 2 healers no longer lets the "healers op" argument to be used since this game is balanced around 2 healers for every 8 people. That territory is where the matchmaking argument comes in.

 

You should probably factor in the healer having access to Guard seeing as quite a few classes have that ability available to them now. For me it seems the healer situation really starts to spiral out of control when they start taking 50% less damage

[shyroman]

You should probably factor in the healer having access to Guard seeing as quite a few classes have that ability available to them now. For me it seems the healer situation really starts to spiral out of control when they start taking 50% less damage

 

Guard certainly helps so that the healer can't be burst down, but if the healer is only putting up 7k sustained hps (the argument he decided to use), guard isn't necessarily going to help them put up more overall hps. If they were getting burst down it would help a bit, but even then, most healers aren't going to go above 8k hps. A good tank would help reduce the damage dealt by the enemy team but still, it just requires the enemy team just need dps that know how to play their class.

 

The healers with guard become issues now because most players can't put up 2k dps to save their life and the only way to deal with them is to get 1 other player to burst them down with you which guard mitigates. It essentially removes 1 of the ways to kill a healer and make you rely much more on your team and that's never something you want to happen in the current state of the game.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Ok, so now there's 2 healers (let's say they're both pulling 7k hps) now total hps is 14k for healers (let's use 16k when bringing in the self heals for the rest of the team, 2k extra is on the high end). So 16k - 4.4k = 11.6k needed by the rest of your team. Let's also say things are balanced and your team has 2 healers (to determine how many other dps are on your team) and 1 player is guarding, so you have 4 other dps fighting with you. 11.6k / 4 = 2.9k dps. It's almost like that's a perfectly reasonable amount to ask from a decent dps when we're using hps numbers from a decent healer (roughly equal skill levels).

 

Any more than 2 healers no longer lets the "healers op" argument to be used since this game is balanced around 2 healers for every 8 people. That territory is where the matchmaking argument comes in.

 

also, having multiple healers getting 7k in a game is rather unlikely

[aerockyul]

I pulled 4.4k dps last night in a voidstar and I was the highest, as Pyro with dot spread. The healer, on the other hand, pulled 7k hps. That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Do you play on Harbinger, and was that healer a Sage? I ask because I hit 6.965K in a Voidstar recently. Upper 4k is what I usually average when I'm getting semi-focused, but in this particular VS match I was allowed to freecast most of the time, and the only thing the other team was trying to do to stop me was AOE attacks, which I moved out of easily.

Pretty boring match though, we lost the tiebreaker with neither team planting a bomb.

[Bobby_McDonald]

I get high dps through dot spread, it's useless. It's low pressure damage. You're acting as if that 4.4k dps I put up was high single target damage and was matched by everyone else. Not even close. It takes multiple dps to down a sorc healer, and that is broken. I don't know how else to spell it out for you.

 

 

 

Yea, yea. The healer is just an amazing player and all the dps are bads Has nothing to do with healers being OP.

 

If you are doing 4.4k DoT and no one is doing more, than there is something is wrong with your team. 4.4k is like average burst dps if you are stunned and interrupted in case you are a good player. DoT should be above 6k.

 

Every, even the very good ones, healer can get killed by two dps. Just depends on who plays those dps. They should be able to do their 4-6k burst and use interrupts, stuns and roots.

 

Why do dps-only-players go to the forums and complain about good healers being unkillable if they know exactly that they could do more dps if they would do keybinding and more training?

Edited March 15, 2017 by Bobby_McDonald

[mmmbuddah]

But I DO NOT PvP, why should my mercenary pay for whats happening in PvP ??? :mad:

 

Even in PVE they are overperforming . I can just EZ mode my waythrough veteran and master on my commando, but on anyother calss? Nope.

[Bobby_McDonald]

Even in PVE they are overperforming . I can just EZ mode my waythrough veteran and master on my commando, but on anyother calss? Nope.

 

I don't believe you that you EZed on any class but I agree that its easiest on Merc. Can confirm that Mara and Sniper is possible to. With my Jugger and PT... no I don't even try

[stoopicus]

derp, misread post. Deleted, sorry. Edited March 17, 2017 by stoopicus

[jedcjedcjedc]

4.4k is like average burst dps if you are stunned and interrupted in case you are a good player. DoT should be above 6k.

This is like a game of telephone... soon "average damage" will be 7k and "DoT damage" will be 10k

[aerockyul]

This is like a game of telephone... soon "average damage" will be 7k and "DoT damage" will be 10k

 

That's how I feel a lot in these forums. People exaggerate and suddenly that exaggerated number is the normal, and people who don't know any better repeat it to everyone they come across, and now the "good" players who actually do play above average don't actually look so hot compared to the exaggerated numbers, and they wonder what's wrong with themselves. See it in PvP and PvE a lot. The funniest thing I've seen from a noob guildie a long time ago was how he averaged 10k dps in Operations but wouldn't elaborate further despite how adamant he was about it.

[mmmbuddah]

I don't believe you that you EZed on any class but I agree that its easiest on Merc. Can confirm that Mara and Sniper is possible to. With my Jugger and PT... no I don't even try

 

Merc you can literally just use one defensive CD per mob and when you get to your last, repeat, and jst win super easy. Or if you want to cheese it, set companion to tank for mobs and spec for healer. xD

[Severith]

Merc you can literally just use one defensive CD per mob and when you get to your last, repeat, and jst win super easy. Or if you want to cheese it, set companion to tank for mobs and spec for healer. xD

 

This guy gets it.

 

My 70th merc has nothing but blue gear from heroic mission rewards. 98k hp. I'm also not very good on my merc, since I only leveled it to get a better understanding on how to handle the good ones.

 

I did chapter 2, master mode with that merc, didn't die a single time. My mara and my jugg, in mostly t2 and t3, have to kite the last boss a little bit to let the healing catch up, but my merc with 20k less hp never had that problem. He face tanked it the whole way through, only moving to avoid the aoe.

 

It's one thing to say that mercs can grind master mode chapters easier, but that's a huge understatement. The merc dcds makes even master mode content completely trivial.

[Bobby_McDonald]

Merc you can literally just use one defensive CD per mob and when you get to your last, repeat, and jst win super easy. Or if you want to cheese it, set companion to tank for mobs and spec for healer. xD

 

I am quite sure that you didn't play Kotet master mode yet then. I did it on my merc and what you say about mobs is true.

But the bosses are not to be ezed, especially the last boss in Chapter II: the Genoharadan leader or however he may call himself correctly. He is a pain in the *** and it took me multiple tries.

 

I didn't have full 242 and Empress Acina is only rank 8 or sth but I don't think it becomes ezmode with higher values.

 

If you talk about kotfe then I agree, kotfe is much easier then kotet but can be done with at leats Sniper and Mara as easy as with merc

Edited March 18, 2017 by Bobby_McDonald