Solo Everything

[DarthDymond]

Let's take the analogy further.

 

Would you expect the restaurant, whenever it adds a meat dish to a menu, to always add an "equivalent vegan version" of that SAME DISH?

 

Why can't it have some vegan dishes over here, and some other completely different meat dishes over there? Can the vegan customer not be happy with the EXTENSIVE variety of existing dishes that match their personal dietary restrictions?

 

What we have here is:

 

"There's no vegan version of the tri-tip! I don't want to eat meat, but I want the ability to experience every meal this restaurant has to offer"

All other things being equal? It would be a better restaurant if it had meat and vegan options for every existing item on the menu, because what that does is add more choices without taking anything away from anyone.

 

If we're comparing menus with:

• [A] 10 meat-only options, 10 meat-or-vegan options, and 10 vegan-only options
  (so 30 menu items total)
  

-vs-

• 30 meat-or-vegan options
  

then menu is better than menu [A] (provided the only change is that we're adding vegan options to the existing meat-only items and meat options to the existing vegan-only options, with no decline in quality for the existing options).

 

Again, if one wants to argue opportunity costs - e.g., "we can either add a vegan option of the filet mignon, or we can add a brand new tri-tip, but we don't have the capacity to add both" - that's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have. I'm just saying that adding "vegan" options of all content is one way to make it better than it is now without those options.

Edited March 12, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Khevar]

I'm just saying that adding "vegan" options of all content is one way to make it better than it is now without those options.

I suppose it could be argued that way. But let's pull this away from the analogy back to the game itself.

 

A developer can spend time and effort developing high quality solo content for this game. A developer can also spend time and effort developing high quality multiplayer for this game. I have seen examples of both.

 

But what we have in this thread are people saying "I don't want there to be ANY content I cannot do solo" instead of saying, "I would like some more high quality solo content"

Edited March 12, 2017 by Khevar

[DarthDymond]

I suppose it could be argued that way. But let's pull this away from the analogy back to the game itself.

 

A developer can spend time and effort developing high quality solo content for this game. A developer can also spend time and effort developing high quality multiplayer for this game. I have seen examples of both.

 

But what we have in this thread are people saying "I don't want there to be ANY content I cannot do solo" instead of saying, "I would like some more high quality solo content"

Sure, and that's the reasonable opportunity cost discussion - "As a solo player, would you prefer a solo mode for the Ops, or would you prefer seven more story chapters? Because there's no way they'll be able to do both." or "They can either add a new Operation, or Solo modes to the existing ones, which one will help the overall financial health of the game more?" etc., etc., etc.

 

I think adding solo modes for the Operations will make this game better than it is now, I don't necessarily think making solo modes for Operations is the best use of the devs' time / resources. So, I will leave the feedback that I think this would be a welcome addition to the game, and let the devs take that feedback into account (or not) as they look at their priorities / options.

Edited March 12, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Severith]

I don't think you're quite following the analogy.

 

I get your analogy perfectly. What you fail to realize is that the analogy only exposed how you think of swtor. You're only thinking of the content, rather than the experience of the content. That's why your opinion and ideas shouldn't be considered. A steak house is more than the steak on your plate. It's the atmosphere, it's the staff, the music, and it's the person your sharing your meal with.

 

When you want to try and make solo mode operations, you won't get that experience. You'll simply end up showing those operations in a context which is miserable compared to how it should of been. You'll ruin the atmosphere for people who end up wanting to do group operations. It will eventually discourage people who want to do group operations. It will devalue the experience of group operations.

 

Furthermore, you'd have to remove all the boss mechanics, and every boss would be a simple tank and spank, with maybe some adds. What's worse, you'll have people who did the solo mode operation who think they know what they're doing, but will in fact be utterly clueless in a group operation. That's cancer to the gaming experience of everyone involved.

 

Instead of doing all this, how about instead you just make some friends who also want to check out the content?

[DarthDymond]

I get your analogy perfectly. What you fail to realize is that the analogy only exposed how you think of swtor. You're only thinking of the content, rather than the experience of the content. That's why your opinion and ideas shouldn't be considered. A steak house is more than the steak on your plate. It's the atmosphere, it's the staff, the music, and it's the person your sharing your meal with.

 

When you want to try and make solo mode operations, you won't get that experience. You'll simply end up showing those operations in a context which is miserable compared to how it should of been. You'll ruin the atmosphere for people who end up wanting to do group operations. It will eventually discourage people who want to do group operations. It will devalue the experience of group operations.

 

Furthermore, you'd have to remove all the boss mechanics, and every boss would be a simple tank and spank, with maybe some adds. What's worse, you'll have people who did the solo mode operation who think they know what they're doing, but will in fact be utterly clueless in a group operation. That's cancer to the gaming experience of everyone involved.

 

Instead of doing all this, how about instead you just make some friends who also want to check out the content?

I have played through all the Ops in this game with full groups - I enjoy playing Ops (and FPs for that matter) with groups just fine. However, just because I personally enjoy playing the content in that way, that doesn't mean that I believe that it is the only valid way a person should be able to enjoy it.

 

If someone else wants to play the content solo, I say giving them that option would be a nice feature. I'm not looking to tell anyone else that their entertainment preference is wrong just because it's different than mine.

[JLazarillo]

When you want to try and make solo mode operations, you won't get that experience. You'll simply end up showing those operations in a context which is miserable compared to how it should of been. You'll ruin the atmosphere for people who end up wanting to do group operations. It will eventually discourage people who want to do group operations. It will devalue the experience of group operations.

That said, to play the other side a bit, is someone who's only in an Operation to tick a box, and who doesn't want to be there except they can't progress the story without doing so, really someone you want in your Operation group? It seems like the atmosphere is "ruined" either way. If you're already enjoying the Operation, then the addition of a solo mode for people who don't want to deal with the unpleasant side of teaming doesn't detract from your experience. And if you're not enjoying the Operation because people won't team with you, then people who are there because they "have to be" presumably aren't going to the sorts of teammates you're looking for.

[Kjarista]

I get your analogy perfectly. What you fail to realize is that the analogy only exposed how you think of swtor. You're only thinking of the content, rather than the experience of the content. That's why your opinion and ideas shouldn't be considered. A steak house is more than the steak on your plate. It's the atmosphere, it's the staff, the music, and it's the person your sharing your meal with.

 

When you want to try and make solo mode operations, you won't get that experience. You'll simply end up showing those operations in a context which is miserable compared to how it should of been. You'll ruin the atmosphere for people who end up wanting to do group operations. It will eventually discourage people who want to do group operations. It will devalue the experience of group operations.

 

Furthermore, you'd have to remove all the boss mechanics, and every boss would be a simple tank and spank, with maybe some adds. What's worse, you'll have people who did the solo mode operation who think they know what they're doing, but will in fact be utterly clueless in a group operation. That's cancer to the gaming experience of everyone involved.

 

Instead of doing all this, how about instead you just make some friends who also want to check out the content?

 

To be honest, none of this need be true for all. I travel a great deal, and I often find myself dining solo. Sure, it's nice to have company, but it can also be nice to be alone. A good restaurant is a good restaurant, solo or in group. Your mileage, of course, may vary. many folks will always prefer company. Others may prefer to dine alone.

 

So is a good game.

 

I don't necessarily argue that operations should be soloable, but your arguments as to why they should not be soloable don't make much sense to me. In another AAA quality MMO, raids can be soloed, more often than not, after severely outgeared, so players can experience the content solo if they are willing to wait for the next expansion. All the boss mechanics are still there, and having done many raids in raid groups and later, in solo, the experiences of both are interesting in their own ways. All it takes for something like this to happen are relaxed auto-level ranging and avoiding the types of "puzzle" mechanics that require multiple items to be manipulated by multiple players simultaneously.

[Severith]

I have played through all the Ops in this game with full groups - I enjoy playing Ops (and FPs for that matter) with groups just fine. However, just because I personally enjoy playing the content in that way, that doesn't mean that I believe that it is the only valid way a person should be able to enjoy it.

 

If someone else wants to play the content solo, I say giving them that option would be a nice feature. I'm not looking to tell anyone else that their entertainment preference is wrong just because it's different than mine.

 

If in RL someone had 4 elite super robots, and the five of them played basketball games, would you say that person has the experience to talk about basketball? Would any of their opinions on basketball matter, or apply to real teams, real players, or real experiences? That person probably would think they know what basketball is, and they probably wouldn't enjoy it too much either. They'd tell other people how boring it was, how it was a grind fest, etc. Get enough people talking like that could devalue basketball.

 

Solo content is inherently easy, because it has to be compliable by a variety of classes with different abilities. A solo mode operation would be exactly that, too easy.

 

If more solo content is made, that's fine. If it's made to complete storylines that the operations complete, that's fine too. Just don't call them by the same names, and don't call them operations.

 

You said you didn't want to tell people their entertainment preferences are wrong. Fair enough, but the OP, by literally demanding that group content be recreated into solo content, is doing exactly that. Turning operations into solo content ruins the group content.

[BJWyler]

This is an MMO not everything should be soloable and if you cant handle that play a solo game. So sick of people in every MMO whining they cant do this or do that because *gasp* the game is meant to be played with others

 

suck it up

 

I would agree with this up to a point. However, when a game is bleeding players, then it is up to the devs to either make completion of certain content soloable - such as these quest chains, or ensure the revival of the playerbase so that people can actually group for group content. When it is nigh on impossible to group for group content, then there needs to be a solo option. This may be an MMO, but unfortunately it is an MMO without the necessary playerbase to complete said content. The players who would like to complete said content should not be punished for that fact.

[Severith]

To be honest, none of this need be true for all. I travel a great deal, and I often find myself dining solo. Sure, it's nice to have company, but it can also be nice to be alone. A good restaurant is a good restaurant, solo or in group. Your mileage, of course, may vary. many folks will always prefer company. Others may prefer to dine alone.

 

So is a good game.

 

I don't necessarily argue that operations should be soloable, but your arguments as to why they should not be soloable don't make much sense to me. In another AAA quality MMO, raids can be soloed, more often than not, after severely outgeared, so players can experience the content solo if they are willing to wait for the next expansion. All the boss mechanics are still there, and having done many raids in raid groups and later, in solo, the experiences of both are interesting in their own ways. All it takes for something like this to happen are relaxed auto-level ranging and avoiding the types of "puzzle" mechanics that require multiple items to be manipulated by multiple players simultaneously.

 

Can you name the game you're talking about, and the raids you're talking about?

 

I remember going solo into a few raids of Wow, for the nostalgia. Overleveled and overgeared. It was fun for maybe 5 minutes. Got a few raider friends from back in the day to go with me instead. Lots more fun, because of the stories we had, all the stuff our raid group went through. Talking about beating bosses together for the first time, that kinda thing. Things a solo player would never know about.

 

What would a solo player remember? Nothing? A mediocre grind fest?

 

Let me ask you a question. You eat alone a lot as you travel. How many meaningful conversations do you have at those tables while eating alone? I'm guessing not very many. How many of those places do you remember? Without anything meaningful, or unique, I bet they all blur together after awhile.

 

I think people should play the way they want to, sure. But some experiences are tailored for group play, and those should be left to the people who will appreciate them more, and remember them more.

[VegasTheLost]

I think people should play the way they want to, sure. But some experiences are tailored for group play, and those should be left to the people who will appreciate them more, and remember them more.

 

This sums it up quite well!

[BJWyler]

Can you name the game you're talking about, and the raids you're talking about?

 

I remember going solo into a few raids of Wow, for the nostalgia. Overleveled and overgeared. It was fun for maybe 5 minutes. Got a few raider friends from back in the day to go with me instead. Lots more fun, because of the stories we had, all the stuff our raid group went through. Talking about beating bosses together for the first time, that kinda thing. Things a solo player would never know about.

 

What would a solo player remember? Nothing? A mediocre grind fest?

 

Let me ask you a question. You eat alone a lot as you travel. How many meaningful conversations do you have at those tables while eating alone? I'm guessing not very many. How many of those places do you remember? Without anything meaningful, or unique, I bet they all blur together after awhile.

 

I think people should play the way they want to, sure. But some experiences are tailored for group play, and those should be left to the people who will appreciate them more, and remember them more.

 

You're projecting and making assumptions that aren't necessarily true. I enjoy content both in groups and as a solo player. Each experience is enjoyable for different reasons. One does not need to have a meaningful conversation to enjoy a meal. People who enjoy a meal in groups enjoy it for different reasons than someone who may enjoy a meal by themselves. I have traveled across the United States on several occasions. Both with family and other times by myself. All those times in each instance have been fun and memorable, and I would do it either way again.

 

Same with in game content. Solo players would not necessarily find something grindy and unfun. I played Esseles and Black Talon many times in a vastly overleveled state and enjoyed those experiences as much as I did when on level with a group. I enjoyed them for different reasons.

[Logan_Storm]

I have to say I do love the going on missions with other players I find it quite exhilarating having strangers working together for a common goal, my only negative is some things you can sometimes wait in cue lists for ages with no luck . For me it's the Dread Fortress & Dread Palace still haven't been able to get them done yet and been trying for a year, an when a group comes together they end up dropping out because people like me want to do the whole thing rather than just some of it.

That and finding so0meone to help out in the last Macrobinocular Mission where you have to activate a number of switches in a short space of time but it's impossible to do so with just one person. Have I had any luck getting assistance from my own guide for this or the above..hell no nor nay luck from general chat either heh....So yeah in some thing I would like to be able to solo stuff you wouldn't be able to normally as I neither want to just dismiss those two things nor do I feel comfortable moving on to 'Shadow of Revan' until I get those two things done and out of the way. @_@

 

So I guess I'm kinda half and Half about Solo every thing really, on one side I love playing along side other people on the other it's so frustrating when you can't get no one after so long to give you a hand, oh and I play on 'Ebon Hawk' where my guild and a mass of friends also play so just switching to another server isn't viable for me.

Just for those who suggest I switch to another server heh no disrespect or offence intended and I do apologise if any is taken. I just wouldn't feel right switching servers after having put so much time into playing 'Ebon Hawk' as well as my friends being there to.

[DarthDymond]

If in RL someone had 4 elite super robots, and the five of them played basketball games, would you say that person has the experience to talk about basketball? Would any of their opinions on basketball matter, or apply to real teams, real players, or real experiences? That person probably would think they know what basketball is, and they probably wouldn't enjoy it too much either. They'd tell other people how boring it was, how it was a grind fest, etc. Get enough people talking like that could devalue basketball.

 

Solo content is inherently easy, because it has to be compliable by a variety of classes with different abilities. A solo mode operation would be exactly that, too easy.

 

If more solo content is made, that's fine. If it's made to complete storylines that the operations complete, that's fine too. Just don't call them by the same names, and don't call them operations.

I really don't get the sense that anyone who is looking for this feature is looking to consider himself/herself a "raider" after running Solo versions of it. They just want to see the story / areas of the Ops while playing in a format they prefer.

 

And I think most people are more than capable of understanding that there is a difference between a Group Op and a Solo Op when is they hear someone griping about "Wow, Dread Palace is sooo boring, all I did was sit back and let me droid solo the whole Council." I don't know many people who have been turned off on Group Flashpoints because of how simple Solo Flashpoints are.

You said you didn't want to tell people their entertainment preferences are wrong. Fair enough, but the OP, by literally demanding that group content be recreated into solo content, is doing exactly that. Turning operations into solo content ruins the group content.

OP is not asking for the Group Option to be taken away from anyone - s/he's not saying Group Players are doing it wrong by playing the content in a group, s/he's saying it's not the way s/he wants to play it and s/he'd like the option to do it solo instead.

[Halinalle]

I don't know many people who have been turned off on Group Flashpoints because of how simple Solo Flashpoints are.

 

You can add me to that list:

- lvl70s in 242s thinking they can solo everything in veteran mode and run ahead of everyone else

- players standing in stupid, dying and dying after combat rez -> imagine me spam healing everyone and running out of energy constantly

- this forces me to apologize for how bad I'm am after every run

Edited March 12, 2017 by Halinalle

[BJWyler]

You can add me to that list:

- lvl70s in 242s thinking they can solo everything in veteran mode and run ahead of everyone else

- players standing in stupid, dying and dying after combat rez -> imagine me spam healing everyone and running out of energy constantly

- this forces me to apologize for how bad I'm am after every run

 

That's not really an issue caused by solo content or even the "casual takeover" of the gaming industry. That's a symptom of stupid gamers and trollish gamers, and it's something you will find no matter the type or difficultly of the game or content you are playing. If anything, that would be more symptomatic of speedleveling and content that does not offer enough of an increasing challenge with which to test one's skills as one progresses through a game. It really has nothing to do with making any particular piece of content soloable. There can be solo content that can be quite challenging and very good at learning to play a class of character.

 

Heck, making an option to play Operations solo is probably the best training ground possible outside of a progression raiding team - so long as the content is scaled appropriately. Unfortunately, we already know that BioWare has problems on that front.

[Halinalle]

It really has nothing to do with making any particular piece of content soloable. There can be solo content that can be quite challenging and very good at learning to play a class of character.

 

Can you ignore Electrical Megastorm in solo mode? Yes, even without droid.

Can you ignore Electrical Megastorm in veteran mode or master mode? No, you can't.

[psandak]

I really don't get the sense that anyone who is looking for this feature is looking to consider himself/herself a "raider" after running Solo versions of it. They just want to see the story / areas of the Ops while playing in a format they prefer.

 

The funny thing is, most of the operations have very little "story" to them. The exceptions are DF/DP which has no solo option (and this is where the overwhelming majority of the issue lies), and TOS which has a solo option. All the other operations' "stories" are:

 

1. Imp/Pub leadership "needs your help, defeating a third party"
   
2. you help
   
3. Imp/Pub leadership says "thank you for your assistance"
   

 

What cutscenes there are, are mostly BBEG saying, "you've defeated my minions now I'M gonna kill you," or "welcome to my lair and your doom."

 

So claiming you want to see the "story" in operations is a bad reason for solo operations.

 

As for "seeing the operations area," if all the encounters are nerfed for solo play, a significant aspect of the operations area is lost.

[DarthDymond]

The funny thing is, most of the operations have very little "story" to them. The exceptions are DF/DP which has no solo option (and this is where the overwhelming majority of the issue lies), and TOS which has a solo option. All the other operations' "stories" are:

 

1. Imp/Pub leadership "needs your help, defeating a third party"
   
2. you help
   
3. Imp/Pub leadership says "thank you for your assistance"
   

 

What cutscenes there are, are mostly BBEG saying, "you've defeated my minions now I'M gonna kill you," or "welcome to my lair and your doom."

 

So claiming you want to see the "story" in operations is a bad reason for solo operations.

 

As for "seeing the operations area," if all the encounters are nerfed for solo play, a significant aspect of the operations area is lost.

There aren't many cut-scenes in the Ops themselves, but each one has a story mission associated with it that requires completing the Op to see the end.

 

I know with each of my characters I make a point to do the Ops, in order, before moving on to the solo content that comes 'after' them in the timeline (i.e., I do EV, KP, EC and TfB before doing Section X or Makeb, S&V before doing Oricon, DF and DP before doing the Forged Alliances / Shadow of Revan stuff) so as to get the full story that progresses through each of them (and in the case of KP -> EC -> TfB -> SecX -> S&V -> Seeker Droid -> Oricon -> DF -> DP, presents one of the major story arcs of the game).

 

Currently, people who don't want to group with other people cannot see those one-off stories and ongoing storylines play out.

Edited March 12, 2017 by DarthDymond

[BJWyler]

Can you ignore Electrical Megastorm in solo mode? Yes, even without droid.

Can you ignore Electrical Megastorm in veteran mode or master mode? No, you can't.

 

Re-read my whole post again. Done correctly solo content can be quite challenging and as good a path to learning to play a particular character class as can the same content built for group play. The issue is not solo vs. group mechanics, the issue is gamers who either can't learn to play or who just want to troll. Being able to avoid a boss or let an NPC companion take down a boss in solo content is irrelevant to the equation. Those that can learn will learn regardless. Those that refuse to learn can't be helped.

 

Let me also reiterate done correctly. Obviously I put this in, and my last paragraph in my previous post makes it more than clear that BioWare, thus far, has not done the solo play correctly - making the bulk of the game far too easy - as evidenced by many threads in these forums after the launch of 4.0. However, that does not mean they are incapable of making challenging content, and therefore should be quite capable of making group content soloable and challenging at the same time, if they do it correctly. Obviously a God-Droid should not, and would not, be part of that equation.

 

The point still stands - you can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.

 

Currently, people who don't want to group with other people cannot see those one-off stories and ongoing storylines play out.

 

I would amend that to also include "people who can't group with other people" since it is no shock to anyone that player population is suffering in this game, and despite all attempts by BioWare to make "old content relevent again" there are simply not enough people on every server who can or wants to play much of the group only content. Players should not be punished by missing out on this content because BioWare failed miserably to foster a healthy raiding and PvP community, which also translates into a group -play oriented community.

Edited March 13, 2017 by BJWyler

[Severith]

I really don't get the sense that anyone who is looking for this feature is looking to consider himself/herself a "raider" after running Solo versions of it. They just want to see the story / areas of the Ops while playing in a format they prefer.

 

And I think most people are more than capable of understanding that there is a difference between a Group Op and a Solo Op when is they hear someone griping about "Wow, Dread Palace is sooo boring, all I did was sit back and let me droid solo the whole Council." I don't know many people who have been turned off on Group Flashpoints because of how simple Solo Flashpoints are.

 

OP is not asking for the Group Option to be taken away from anyone - s/he's not saying Group Players are doing it wrong by playing the content in a group, s/he's saying it's not the way s/he wants to play it and s/he'd like the option to do it solo instead.

 

I didn't say the OP wanted grouping options taken away, I said the group operations would be ruined. Specifically, the sense of wonder and challenge that you get when you first step inside of one. It would just be another map to a solo player looking for a check in the box.

 

Solo players would think that the Dread Palace is boring, after having soloed it with their super droid. Emotions carry over. Ever dislike a place, because something bad happened there when you visited? That sense of boredom will carry over from solo to group operations. Group Flashpoints used to be a lot more popular, but they're really not anymore. People don't wait in the group finder, they just do the solo mode, which means the people actually using the group finder have a longer wait, and the solo person has a mediocre mmo gaming experience at best.

 

Addressing your "they won't think they're raiders" comment in the next post.

[Severith]

SWTOR has a huge problem with player ego. It's toxic for the community, and for the amount of subs still in the game.

 

Either after or during the starter planets, depending on class story, SWTOR builds up your ego. Every conversation ends up with half the dialogue directly mentioning or inferring how great the player is. This is ironic given how it's almost impossible to have a hard time completing the class quests. Players don't need to know their abilities, they don't need to have any strategy or thought into how they play. The same is true for KOTFE and KOTET. Anyone can complete them, and have all sorts of characters tell them how great and powerful they are.

 

No actual skill is required. If you can hit keys on a keyboard, you can complete solo content in SWTOR, and get told how amazing you are. It grates on the nerves of people with even a little self awareness, but for others, that constant "encouragement" is going to sink in on some level.

 

So a new player completes all the class story and the KOTET crap, and think's they're hot stuff. They decide to do some group content, either pvp, or some harder pve, and suddenly they have cognitive dissonance. They know they're good players because the game told them they were, but they're failing at every aspect of group play. Some will evaluate themselves, realize the game lied to them, and they'll try to become better players. They'll read their abilities, carefully, for the first time. They'll ask questions.

 

That's the actual starting point for SWTOR, for people who actually play the game. It starts when the player wants to understand how things work.

 

The majority of other people won't do that though. They'll go with what their ego tells them. "That guy who killed me is hacking" or "Man that healer sucks" after not even considering the option of peeling. They'll stick around for a few months maybe. But they'll get toxic. They'll ruin any group content they try to do, and they'll get bored of doing things solo.

 

It isn't even their fault. It's Bioware's fault. That's what happens when a game coddles a player for 70 levels and then sends them out into the game with no knowledge about their character class, or how the game works. A merc could literally do nothing but spam rapid shots with a companion healing and get through that content. Since Bioware didn't put any challenge into the class or chapter stories, there was never any need for a solo player to learn their class.

 

The solo mode flashpoints are an extension of Bioware's negligence to challenge the player. The super droid is the real hero, and the player is the guy who decides when to walk down the next corridor.

 

What does this have to do with potential solo operations? It would be more of the same. Instead of tailoring each solo mode operation to classes, and their abilities, there would just be one, and it would be too easy. The super droid, or whatever mechanic the devs decide, would handle the operation.

 

There is no benefit here for the game as a whole. Solo mode operations would give a solo player a little more to do, at the cost of inflating their ego more, which makes them even less likely to participate fully in the MMO experience. That means less subs eventually, a more toxic community, and a bunch more people who think they can play the game and then get slapped in the face if they ever realize how bad they are.

 

Lets leave operations alone. The solo players can look at them from afar, and realize that there is more to the game then they're experiencing, and if they wanted to experience that, they'd need to become better players and better members of the community.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Severith

[AllisonLightning]

SWTOR has a huge problem with player ego. It's toxic for the community, and for the amount of subs still in the game.

<snip>

 

There is no benefit here for the game as a whole. Solo mode operations would give a solo player a little more to do, at the cost of inflating their ego more, which makes them even less likely to participate fully in the MMO experience. That means less subs eventually, a more toxic community, and a bunch more people who think they can play the game and then get slapped in the face if they ever realize how bad they are.

 

Lets leave operations alone. The solo players can look at them from afar, and realize that there is more to the game then they're experiencing, and if they wanted to experience that, they'd need to become better players and better members of the community.

 

This whole rant was a testament to player ego and toxicity as someone who is happy with the status quo and doesn't think we need solo operations. Try being a frellwit facing the endgame boss for ROTHC on Republic side, the Skytrooper Constructor or the Sith Emperor as a Jedi Knight- you can be max level but ignoring mechanics completely in story mode isn't possible. You don't get final boss in Depths of Manaan under the fire and you're looking at infinite wipes on story/solo mode.

 

We have such bad discordance between player factions because of the attitude seen above. I do group content but there was a time where I wouldn't touch it- I was petrified of PvP and now it's my favourite endgame activity. A better player, yes, you need that for endgame but better member of the community? I'd argue someone ranting that they can do stuff solo isn't helping the SWTOR community- all it does is get defensives up. Everybody needs to be taken care of and being toxic jerks towards solo players won't help.

 

We're all subs here so let's treat each other with respect.

[VegasTheLost]

Way I see it, and I said it before is that from 4.0 OPS became much more accessible than before. This hasn't changed in 5.0, which means that there is no gear requirement, and most of the mechanics are dumbed down/taken out. All a player have to do is ask for help from friends, from guild or even here on the forums. Since the OP is a resident of TRE as well as me, I know very well that there are tons of guilds for casual players on the server, where TS is not required or anything particular. Even in our guild there are folks who don't usually get in the group content with us, but they are there, we're there if they need us, we're happy to help any way and I am sure that this is the same in other guilds as well.

 

Also if you all please take a look at the thread in my signo, you'll see that there is another option, designed specifically for the story only people. Fun fact we only had 2 runs so far, so there's that.

 

Excuses, everywhere I look I see excuses why not to do something that is required in order to finish a quest or see the desired cinematic. This is what I don't understand and this is what makes me sad when I see solo ops threads.

[BJWyler]

I didn't say the OP wanted grouping options taken away, I said the group operations would be ruined. Specifically, the sense of wonder and challenge that you get when you first step inside of one. It would just be another map to a solo player looking for a check in the box.

 

Solo players would think that the Dread Palace is boring, after having soloed it with their super droid. Emotions carry over. Ever dislike a place, because something bad happened there when you visited? That sense of boredom will carry over from solo to group operations. Group Flashpoints used to be a lot more popular, but they're really not anymore. People don't wait in the group finder, they just do the solo mode, which means the people actually using the group finder have a longer wait, and the solo person has a mediocre mmo gaming experience at best.

 

Addressing your "they won't think they're raiders" comment in the next post.

 

Once again, like I stated in this post -

snip

- you are projecting and making assumptions that simply aren't true to the norm. Go back and re-read that post. Just because you have or would find this content boring as a solo player does not mean that any other solo player would feel the same way. I could agree on the mediocre MMO gaming experience but that is only because BioWare has created a mediocre gaming experience in the game with 4.0 and 5.0.

 

Excuses, everywhere I look I see excuses why not to do something that is required in order to finish a quest or see the desired cinematic. This is what I don't understand and this is what makes me sad when I see solo ops threads.

 

And those excuses are not invalid. It's great that there are groups and guilds out there willing to go out of their way to help people learn and get through content. My guild was the same way before all but 2-3 of us quit the game from a 100+ membership prior to 4.0.

 

However, that does not change the fact that there are still many people out there who simply cannot find enough players with which to do this content on servers at a particular time. It's easy enough to say "just play during primetime" or "play during the time one of these groups have established", but there are 24 hours in a day, and surprise surprise, many people who can not play at times that are convenient for everyone else. Once again, no player should be punished by being locked out of content simply because of the time they have to play or the inability of the devs or game to allow for specific group only content to make it easier to group for said content at any point during the day.

************************************************************************************************

My point from my previous two posts still stands firm:

You can take any game with any type of group-only raid-equivalent content and make it perfectly feasible to be equally challenging to a solo player. Having that option is neither a detriment to group play nor to player skill.

Edited March 13, 2017 by BJWyler