The poor business model of sub perks.

[AmadanNaBrona]

"Membership has it's privileges"

 

You had to be subbed at the right time to get the chapter and they pushed it on the website, they tweeted it, they Instagramed it, they Facebooked it, they twitched it, FOR MONTHS!!!!

 

If you missed it, it your fault.

 

I missed getting the Founders title by like 5 days, a friend invited me on the last possible day to get the title, but I accepted the 7 day free trial and didn't actually sub till I capped at lvl 15, 5 days later.

 

I missed it, sux to be me. Every time I see someone fly by with the Founder title, I think "man, if only I'd have subbed up right away..."

 

But I've never once started a thread about how unfair it is or what a bad business model it is.

 

To quote from Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang.... "Had your chance, muffled it."

[AscendingSky]

"Membership has it's privileges"

 

You had to be subbed at the right time to get the chapter and they pushed it on the website, they tweeted it, they Instagramed it, they Facebooked it, they twitched it, FOR MONTHS!!!!

 

If you missed it, it your fault.

 

I missed getting the Founders title by like 5 days, a friend invited me on the last possible day to get the title, but I accepted the 7 day free trial and didn't actually sub till I capped at lvl 15, 5 days later.

 

I missed it, sux to be me. Every time I see someone fly by with the Founder title, I think "man, if only I'd have subbed up right away..."

 

But I've never once started a thread about how unfair it is or what a bad business model it is.

 

To quote from Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang.... "Had your chance, muffled it."

 

I feel the same way about not being able to get the items from the Collector's Edition vendor. By the time I decided for sure I wanted to play TOR, all the CE copies of the game were long gone from the stores in my area and on Amazon. I dragged my heels, so I missed out.

 

Do I throw a fit every month or so on the forums because EAWare isn't re-releasing the CE five years later? Nope! I made my choice, so I accept the consequences of that choice. Because I'm an adult.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[SuperJoule]

So my point still stands if anyone is wondering, it is a poor business model from the get-go. It's not about what "I" missed out, which some people seemed to forget, or didn't want to aknowledge. It's about how the business model punishes new subscribers and returning players.

And what Bioware / EA can do to fix that, and grow its playerbase.

 

Also, the ignore button on the forum is really wonderful

[Nothing_Shines]

Also, the ignore button on the forum is really wonderful

 

It sure is.

 

IGNORED.

[Quraswren]

So my point still stands if anyone is wondering, it is a poor business model from the get-go.

 

I very much disagree. It's a fantastic business model to get people to stay subbed. If I was running a busienss like this I'd have created them in as many ways as I could so that the rewards for staying subbed longer and longer got better and better. Marvel heroes has something like rewards for logging in 365 days to years. I'd work on something like that here for subs. The longer you sub the more you get.

 

You're very muchy mistaken on how good that business model is.

 

It's not about what "I" missed out, which some people seemed to forget, or didn't want to aknowledge. It's about how the business model punishes new subscribers and returning players.

 

No, you created this because you missed soemthing and you tried to tie in every new gamer as if it helped your case. Sorry but you missed the sale. You missed the option for no interest payments and you missed the rewards for not being around and subbing. No matter how you spin it. You chose to not be a part of the program and so you do not get the rewards of said program.

 

New gamers can get new rewards and new things as long as they stick around. Seeing what others have entices them to do such but if they choose to leave and no longer be a part of the reward system. to bad thats on them but the business model is fantastic if the rewards and achievements are worth it.

 

And what Bioware / EA can do to fix that, and grow its playerbase.

They can implement more of the reward system for being a sub. Encourage gamers to sub and sub longer with better and better rewards for the length of time they are here. Have special rewards for special events. Gamers love rewards and the DVL event proves that by getting getting gamers to do terribly old content once again for the rewards. The content is old and rather uninteresting but the rewards were decent enough to get people to do it.

 

Sub rewards do the same. Make the rewarads interesting enough and gamers will stay. Put those rewards on a time frame and If you check out, well thats on you. You missed the sale. You missed the reward.

 

I once missed out on a free year at the "Y" because I was not a member at the time for the contest. It sucked but I didn't pitch a fit because the clearly stated what I had to do to get the reward.

 

Also, the ignore button on the forum is really wonderful

 

It is a useful tool. Something used to hide opinions that don't agree with you so some can feel better about themselves but I think you know that.

[AmadanNaBrona]

So my point still stands if anyone is wondering, it is a poor business model from the get-go.)

 

Your point still fails.

 

Many many many business have membership rewards. They do work and are a great business model.

Starbucks has the Stars program, that gets members more than nonmembers.

Firehouse Subs has the My Points program the gets members more than nonmembers.

Airlines have frequent flyer miles, but only for members not all passengers.

Loyalty programs abound in all industries.

 

 

You keep saying it's a bad business model, but businesses disagree. If membership rewards were bad for business, business would stop doing them.

[AscendingSky]

It is a useful tool. Something used to hide opinions that don't agree with you so some can feel better about themselves but I think you know that.

 

People who can't handle logic and reasoning do find it useful to construct their very own echo chamber!

 

As far as I can tell this guy's argument boils down to this:

 

1. Choose not to buy a product when it is available.

2. Demand product a year later when it is no longer available and you never paid for it in the first place.

3. Insist if you are not given something for nothing then you are being 'punished'.

4. ????

5. PROFIT!!!

[Foambreaker]

If you are that into achievements you should have left your sub running.

 

You were cherry picking subs, only playing when there is new content. Those who didn't cherry pick PAID to keep the game running and got rewarded.

 

Guess what, everyone is not a winner.

[ivanhedgehog]

I feel the same way about not being able to get the items from the Collector's Edition vendor. By the time I decided for sure I wanted to play TOR, all the CE copies of the game were long gone from the stores in my area and on Amazon. I dragged my heels, so I missed out.

 

Do I throw a fit every month or so on the forums because EAWare isn't re-releasing the CE five years later? Nope! I made my choice, so I accept the consequences of that choice. Because I'm an adult.

 

FYI, you can buy the ce on ebay. it is still available.

[AscendingSky]

FYI, you can buy the ce on ebay. it is still available.

 

Too often those are scams, where the code has already been used. I'd rather not risk the money at this point, personally.

[beattlebilly]

So my point still stands if anyone is wondering, it is a poor business model from the get-go. It's not about what "I" missed out, which some people seemed to forget, or didn't want to aknowledge. It's about how the business model punishes new subscribers and returning players.

And what Bioware / EA can do to fix that, and grow its playerbase.

 

Also, the ignore button on the forum is really wonderful

 

The business model is fine. It keeps people subbed, and the new/returning players have incentive to stay subbed so they don't miss out on future rewards

 

What's poor is people's attitude about it(regardless of what side you're on).

[RswanBing]

I feel the same way about not being able to get the items from the Collector's Edition vendor. By the time I decided for sure I wanted to play TOR, all the CE copies of the game were long gone from the stores in my area and on Amazon. I dragged my heels, so I missed out.

 

Do I throw a fit every month or so on the forums because EAWare isn't re-releasing the CE five years later? Nope! I made my choice, so I accept the consequences of that choice. Because I'm an adult.

 

Sure, but a title is definitely not the same thing as content, as well as cosmetic things. It doesn't prevent you to do anything if you don't get one of these things. So i completely agree, no reason at all to complain for a title or HK stuff or whatever, it's just cosmectic things, you don't really miss anything at all, and it's not unfair at all to not get these things, even for a new player.

 

I get you point and your logic, but the bonus chapter thing is a really particular situation as I see it, I would agree with you for every other rewards, but not this one. Stories are made to be shared, not to be a reward for a few, that just makes no sense at all in this kind of game.

 

And I understand those who don't want it to be anything else than the reward it is now, it would make what they did to qualify useless, it's a valid point.

But for this particular reward, don't blame people for wanting to play it, they're not the ones who made a mistake, bioware did, and seems to have learned from it since they went back to basic rewards.

Edited February 3, 2017 by RswanBing

[ivanhedgehog]

Too often those are scams, where the code has already been used. I'd rather not risk the money at this point, personally.

 

I got my 2 from gamestop, but those are long gone.

[AscendingSky]

And I understand those who don't want it to be anything else than the reward it is now, it would make what they did to qualify useless, it's a valid point. But for this particular reward, don't blame people for wanting to play content, they're not the ones who made a mistake.

 

They made a choice. Choices have consequences. If you chose to not subscribe to the game during the multiple months needed in order to get the bonus chapter, then the consequence is you don't get to access the bonus chapter. If you're an adult, you suck it up, buttercup, and accept that you don't get something when you did nothing to deserve it in the first place.

 

Whether or not it was a mistake for EAWare to make a bonus chapter as a sub reward in the first place is a whole other subject. I'll agree it wasn't the smartest move on their part in hindsight, though mostly because they kept delaying and delaying the chapter over and over and when it was finally released it was super short and (in my opinion) not all that great.

[RswanBing]

They made a choice. Choices have consequences. If you chose to not subscribe to the game during the multiple months needed in order to get the bonus chapter, then the consequence is you don't get to access the bonus chapter. If you're an adult, you suck it up, buttercup, and accept that you don't get something when you did nothing to deserve it in the first place.

 

Whether or not it was a mistake for EAWare to make a bonus chapter as a sub reward in the first place is a whole other subject. I'll agree it wasn't the smartest move on their part in hindsight, though mostly because they kept delaying and delaying the chapter over and over and when it was finally released it was super short and (in my opinion) not all that great.

 

Okay, I for example choose that I don't care about this chapter and didn't qualify, this was my choice, I agree. But that doesn't apply to new players. And don't tell me that a new player is guilty of not playing before he starts playing.

 

As I said, I agree with you, a new player has no reason to complain if he can't get founder title, hk stuff... because it doesn't prevent him to do anything in this game. Sure he just have to deal with it, it's not an issue at all. But there's no issue because rewards are cosmetic, they don't really serve no purpose at all.

 

I still think this content is totally wasted as a reward and I still think this should be replaced by something else. Just imagine, if you could get whatever exclusive reward who might please you in replacement while they put the chapter on CM or whatever, would you keep refusing other people to get this chapter ? And if so, why ?

 

Or is it just that you don't want people to get it at all, whatever happens ? Not trying to be mean, I don't know what you think of course, but when I read the first part of your answer, it's the feeling i have.

Edited February 3, 2017 by RswanBing

[Quraswren]

Okay, I for example choose that I don't care about this chapter and didn't qualify, this was my choice, I agree. But that doesn't apply to new players. And don't tell me that a new player is guilty of not playing before he starts playing.

 

He is quilty of missing the sale. They missed it. The missed the sale and what the sale had going. New player or not doesn't matter. It was a one time sale and now that it's over. It's over. Sorry they were doing something else at the time but oh well.

 

No one can expect to make every sale and get every reward. They would have to be a special kind of fool to think just because they showed up days, weeks or even years later they should get whatever was on sale or made for a special event.

[AscendingSky]

Okay, I for example choose that I don't care about this chapter and didn't qualify, this was my choice, I agree. But that doesn't apply to new players. And don't tell me that a new player is guilty of not playing before he starts playing.

 

As I said, I agree with you, a new player has no reason to complain if he can't get founder title, hk stuff... because it doesn't prevent him to do anything in this game. Sure he just have to deal with it, it's not an issue at all. But there's no issue because rewards are cosmetic, they don't really serve no purpose at all.

 

 

The Shroud of Memory chapter is not necessary to complete anything in the game other than the achievement you get for playing the chapter. The story of the chapter doesn't even relate to anything in either of the last two expansions. It's fluff, not a vital component of the game that's being locked off.

 

 

I still think this content is totally wasted as a reward and I still think this should be replaced by something else. Just imagine, if you could get whatever exclusive reward who might please you in replacement while they put the chapter on CM or whatever, would you keep refusing other people to get this chapter ? And if so, why ?

 

Or is it just that you don't want people to get it at all, whatever happens ? Not trying to be mean, I don't know what you think of course, but when I read the first part of your answer, it's the feeling i have.

 

 

As I said earlier... if they let people who never qualified for the bonus chapter get it now, and gave those of us who DID pay all those months of subscription to get that mediocre fluff chapter some other 'exclusive' reward in exchange, the following two things would happen:

 

1. Customers would realize EAWare is talking out of its shebs in the future if it tried to claim any desired sub rewards were 'exclusive' or 'limited time offers', and therefore wouldn't see them as an incentive to keep subscribing during content droughts.

 

2. The people who complained that they couldn't get the bonus chapter would just start complaining how they couldn't get whatever new shiny the people who actually PAID for the bonus chapter received as a consolation prize.

 

I believe in fairness. If you don't pay for something, if you don't qualify for a special offer, then you shouldn't get it, period. That goes for me and not being able to buy that sweet statue from the CE vendor... I didn't decide to buy a copy of TOR until it was too late to get the CE, I don't have the right now to demand something I never qualified for in the first place.

 

Unlike the OP with their entitlement issues, I don't begrudge the CE players their exclusive content, whine about how it's 'not fair' and 'a punishment' that I can't use that vendor, or accuse the CE players of being selfish jerks (which is what you're not-so-subtly accusing me of being now, thanks so much) for not being okay with the idea of me getting access to their CE perks years after the fact. CE owners were the early adopters, they acted fast and shelled out the extra cash, they deserve their perks. Sure, I'd like to have them too, but I'm an adult and I accept it's my own fault I don't have them.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[RswanBing]

The Shroud of Memory chapter is not necessary to complete anything in the game other than the achievement you get for playing the chapter. The story of the chapter doesn't even relate to anything in either of the last two expansions. It's fluff, not a vital component of the game that's being locked off.

 

That's true, but I still see a difference, this chapter allow you to play content, while other rewards allow you to do nothing, But I agree, nothing vital in it.

 

As I said earlier... if they let people who never qualified for the bonus chapter get it now, and gave those of us who DID pay all those months of subscription to get that mediocre fluff chapter some other 'exclusive' reward in exchange, the following two things would happen:

 

1. Customers would realize EAWare is talking out of its shebs in the future if it tried to claim any desired sub rewards were 'exclusive' or 'limited time offers', and therefore wouldn't see them as an incentive to keep subscribing during content droughts.

 

2. The people who complained that they couldn't get the bonus chapter would just start complaining how they couldn't get whatever new shiny the people who actually PAID for the bonus chapter received as a consolation prize.

 

I believe in fairness. If you don't pay for something, if you don't qualify for a special offer, then you shouldn't get it, period. That goes for me and not being able to buy that sweet statue from the CE vendor... I didn't decide to buy a copy of TOR until it was too late to get the CE, I don't have the right now to demand something I never qualified for in the first place.

 

Unlike the OP with their entitlement issues, I don't begrudge the CE players their exclusive content, whine about how it's 'not fair' and 'a punishment' that I can't use that vendor, or accuse the CE players of being selfish jerks (which is what you're not-so-subtly accusing me of being now, thanks so much) for not being okay with the idea of me getting access to their CE perks years after the fact. CE owners were the early adopters, they acted fast and shelled out the extra cash, they deserve their perks. Sure, I'd like to have them too, but I'm an adult and I accept it's my own fault I don't have them.

 

1. Isn't it already the case with Party jawa and other exclusive mounts or stuff ? I'am afraid that's where they're going anyway.

 

2. I get your point, I specified that I was only talking about this specific chapter reward, while I agree with you on every others. I wasn't saying everyone should get anything at all.

 

I get your point, we just see things differently. I just can't compare a statue and a chapter with actual playable content, I don't put these things on the same level, but as I don't really care about every cosmetic part of the game I may be too much subjective.

 

But I guess you're right, it's too late to fix things since it has been released as a reward, and it may create more issues and unsatisfaction for some. Wasn't sure about that at first , that's why I was suggesting a replacement, but it's probably not a good idea in the end.

 

And I wasn't trying to be subtle at all, that's why I clearly tell you that I wasn't trying to be mean or wasn't claiming that I know what you really think. A lot of people like to get what other can't or don't get, especially in a mmo, and I was just wondering if this wasn't part of the issue here.

 

But I told you it was just the feeling I had while reading the first part of your answer, just a feeling, wasn't sure about anything and don't know you enough to judge. So that's why I asked, no malice or whatever behind it, I'm actually happy to be wrong.

[ivanhedgehog]

He is quilty of missing the sale. They missed it. The missed the sale and what the sale had going. New player or not doesn't matter. It was a one time sale and now that it's over. It's over. Sorry they were doing something else at the time but oh well.

 

No one can expect to make every sale and get every reward. They would have to be a special kind of fool to think just because they showed up days, weeks or even years later they should get whatever was on sale or made for a special event.

 

It is like the owner of the walking dead series deciding to sell season 2 for one month only and never selling it again. they have that right, they own it. But dont expect any new customers to start the series.

Edited February 3, 2017 by ivanhedgehog

[Andryah]

Railing on missed sub perks = poor business model.....

 

....... is complete nonsense.

 

All it does is reveal the complainer to be someone who tries to game the subscription model to their advantage... subbing/unsubbing/resubbing based on interest in new content.

 

This is precisely why businesses DO offer incentives to existing customers to stay as paying customers. It a well proven success model for businesses, regardless if the OP of this thread likes it, agrees with it, or condemns it.

 

And the attempts to allegedly "stand up for" newer players who clearly missed said incentives over the last 5 years, by their choice, is a complete fabrication... designed to act as one leg on the three legged pedestal that is this thread.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

That's true, but I still see a difference, this chapter allow you to play content, while other rewards allow you to do nothing, But I agree, nothing vital in it.

 

 

I agree the chapter as a reward was both a bigger reward and an unusual reward to begin with. And yeah, in hindsight, it probably wasn't the best idea. Though considering how many months you had to sub to get it, I'm glad it was a bigger reward than the other ones.

 

 

1. Isn't it already the case with Party jawa and other exclusive mounts or stuff ? I'am afraid that's where they're going anyway.

 

 

While they did give out another Party Jawa recently, it does look different than the other one. They also don't share a cooldown, so you can have both of them orbiting you at once! So I don't mind that... newer players got a goodie, and I got that same goodie and kept the one I already had. Nothing was lost, only gained.

 

 

2. I get your point, I specified that I was only talking about this specific chapter reward, while I agree with you on every others. I wasn't saying everyone should get anything at all.

 

I get your point, we just see things differently. I just can't compare a statue and a chapter with actual playable content, I don't put these things on the same level, but as I don't really care about every cosmetic part of the game I may be too much subjective.

 

 

I'm something of a decoration addict in this game. XD Seriously, I can spend hours at it! I find it a good way to relax. Which is why the main thing I wish I could get from the CE vendor is the decoration.

 

 

But I guess you're right, it's too late to fix things since it has been released as a reward, and it may create more issues and unsatisfaction for some. Wasn't sure about that at first , that's why I was suggesting a replacement, but it's probably not a good idea in the end.

 

 

It's a well-meant idea! And yeah, the other concern I had is if the people who already had the chapter thought the new shiny wasn't of equal 'value' as the bonus chapter, and they'd feel cheated, and the unhappiness that would result. Personally, that wouldn't bother me so much, as I wasn't all that OMG thrilled with the chapter anyways, but I know for some it would, whether for exclusivity reasons against other players or just feeling like the new shiny wasn't worth what they paid for the bonus chapter originally.

 

In the end, I admit I honestly just have a serious negative reaction to people demanding special treatment or being entitled, especially when it comes to stuff like gaming. Being a Veruca Salt does not impress me. XD

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Mackdi]

your first mistake was thinking EA cares about anything other then subs and money. If the marketing data says sub rewards work, then EA will continue telling the devs to do them.

 

Your argument about it screwing over new players doesnt matter because the new players dont know what the sub rewards are all about and dont know if they should care or not.

 

EA wants subs. Subs mean money and look good on reports to the investors. Investors want money and reports that look good for confidence indicators.

 

If you dont like it, too bad. This is how business works in the real world.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Mackdi
stuff

[AscendingSky]

It is like the owner of the walking dead series deciding to sell season 2 for one month only and never selling it again. they have that right, they own it. But dont expect any new customers to start the series.

 

That's not a fair comparison. It's more like the owner of the Walking Dead series producing a limited edition DVD collection for Season 2 that has an extra behind the scenes featurette and only selling it for a few months. If you didn't buy it then, too bad, you missed out, but you can still buy the regular DVD set just fine (which for TOR would be all the existing expansion chapters, which you can play just fine without the bonus chapter).

 

So the OP is like the guy who goes into Best Buy a year after the limited edition DVD set stopped being available and proceeds to throw a fit because he can't get the limited edition DVD set anymore, because he wanted it now!

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[SuperJoule]

your first mistake was thinking EA cares about anything other then subs and money. If the marketing data says sub rewards work, then EA will continue telling the devs to do them.

 

Your argument about it screwing over new players doesnt matter because the new players dont know what the sub rewards are all about and dont know if they should care or not.

 

EA wants subs. Subs mean money and look good on reports to the investors. Investors want money and reports that look good for confidence indicators.

 

If you dont like it, too bad. This is how business works in the real world.

 

Actually, I was appealing to EA's greed, if EA can make money of off people who don't sub consistently anyways, and get that in return at the same price for a sub, that's a healthy business model.

 

It is clear that a lot of people who are here, is afraid that they're toys wont be exclusive anymore, and therefor has very little real to base their opinion on, this is however pretty intelligent. Yet, I know I wont be subbing forever on this game, as I'm a casual. I find it odd though, that they chose to exercise this as it will hurt their income with us casual players and new players.

 

Which by the way, is the majority of the playerbase, not the elitist sub from the beginning count.

[Jensaga]

I feel that achievements shouldnt be linked to what you pay for. Subscriber rewards should be strictly related to cosmetic and convenience items, such a portable trainers and mobile cargo holds, stuff like that.

I wouldnt consider having paid 20 bucks in the month of march as much of an achievement and if I were an achievement hunter, I would be upset about not being able to complete the game because maybe I had a hard month and couldnt afford to pay a sub, or I was deployed for a few months in the armed forces and cancelled my sub while I was out. Seems silly.