GrandLordMenace Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) See title. While I am cautiously excited about the idea of finally getting new operations content (even if the release will be dreadfully slow), and very excited that Matt Pucevich of Revan, Brontes, Council, and Ops Chief fame will be designing it, I am concerned about the difficulty. It has been some time since the community has had new Operations bosses to chew on. While I understand that releasing all of the bosses at once is logistically impossible ATM cause you have neglected ops content for over two years, I would like to say that since you are releasing them piecemeal, the bosses NEED to have some degree of progression. While the first boss should not be the hardest boss in the instance and there needs to be a gradual progression, this boss needs to tide the community over for a while. The Story should be realistically clearable, due to SM, in a fairly short period, but Veteran and Master modes especially should be far more difficult than any first boss in this game has been. It should take multiple raidnights of progression and figuring out the mechanics to clear. If the fight was genuinely mechanically complex enough to hold the community over, I'd be perfectly fine with this release cycle. If you give us another NiM Nefra, I will be sorely disappointed. I'd rather have 5 fights that are clearable by the average SM group for story, 5 Veteran fights on the level of HM revan as it stands right now, and 5 Master fights on the level of pre nerf Revan or NiM Brontes than 20 fights each with only 4 real difficult ones. Make them chewy. Edited January 27, 2017 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 See title. While I am cautiously excited about the idea of finally getting new operations content (even if the release will be dreadfully slow), and very excited that Matt Pucevich of Revan, Brontes, Council, and Ops Chief fame will be designing it, I am concerned about the difficulty. It has been some time since the community has had new Operations bosses to chew on. While I understand that releasing all of the bosses at once is logistically impossible ATM cause you have neglected ops content for over two years, I would like to say that since you are releasing them piecemeal, the bosses NEED to have some degree of progression. While the first boss should not be the hardest boss in the instance and there needs to be a gradual progression, this boss needs to tide the community over for a while. The Story should be realistically clearable, due to SM, in a fairly short period, but Veteran and Master modes especially should be far more difficult than any first boss in this game has been. It should take multiple raidnights of progression and figuring out the mechanics to clear. If the fight was genuinely mechanically complex enough to hold the community over, I'd be perfectly fine with this release cycle. If you give us another NiM Nefra, I will be sorely disappointed. I'd rather have 5 fights that are clearable by the average SM group, 5 fights on the level of HM revan as it stands right now, and 5 fights on the level of pre nerf Revan or NiM Brontes than 20 fights with only 4 real difficult ones. Make them chewy. +1, well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbenwayddo Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 If changes are being made, you could really make it look a heckuva lot less like a Horde Trooper robot from She-Ra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) /signed I would add Pre nerf Dread Guards, Warlord Kephess, and 16m Tanks level to the list for inspiration for difficulty. Get quality people in there BW and listen to the advice. Take the time to make them memorable. If you need time we are willing wait a bit but only if bugs and exploits aren't present and the fights in Master Mode are tuned to what we have suggested. Edited January 27, 2017 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 /signed I would add Pre nerf Dread Guards, Warlord Kephess, and 16m Tanks level to the list. Get quality people in there BW and listen to the advice. Take the time to make them memorable. If you need time we are willing wait a bit but only if bugs and exploits aren't present and the fights in Master Mode are tuned to what we have suggested. Agreed. It will be incredibly worrying if you have a closed test and the only people invited are Musco, I would not use him as a barometer for content for a solo flashpoint, let alone a full blown operation! (sorry musco) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Agreed. While usually I'd advocate for the first two bosses to be login bosses so there's no raidblocker early on, this is not a traditional raid because the bosses are released throughout the course of an entire year. On the other hand, once all bosses have been released, if you have the operation on farm, it should be clearable in one evening. One solution would be to tune the DPS checks for increasing gear levels, e.g. have first boss tuned for 242 gear and have it drop 244 gear, with 2nd boss tuned for 244 gear but dropping 246 gear. That way, bosses are challenging when they first come out and there's a reason to continue running them for weeks, but you won't be stuck on an early boss. Alternatively, they could just design the bosses so that with enough practice, they will become easier, e.g. implement very complicated mechanics that will take a few dozen tries to understand, but once you got it, the boss will be easier. Edited January 27, 2017 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I would add Pre nerf Dread Guards, Warlord Kephess, and 16m Tanks level to the list for inspiration for difficulty. I hope you're talking about Master Mode. Veteran Mode should be completable by a semi-progression guild, and the more skilled PuG group, otherwise we have the same issue as with Rav/ToS. Master Mode can be tuned for the top % of players (with new mechanics, not just higher numbers) but it would probably not be on a level of Dread Guards or Tanks because too many good players have left. If they tune the boss for the players that have killed Brontes MM post-5.0, it's just not worth it financially. Edited January 27, 2017 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I hope you're talking about Master Mode. Veteran Mode should be completable by a semi-progression guild, and the more skilled PuG group, otherwise we have the same issue as with Rav/ToS. Master Mode can be tuned for the top % of players (with new mechanics, not just higher numbers) but it would probably not be on a level of Dread Guards or Tanks because too many good players have left. If they tune the boss for the players that have killed Brontes MM post-5.0, it's just not worth it financially. Sry Should clarify, Master Mode. While I enjoyed 3.0 Cora and Revan it's not realistic to be Veteran fights and should not have been and instead should have been NiM but moot point I guess lol. And for the love of God they should not do a boss that realizes on precise Client server positioning This game can't handle that. I do agree it should require higher level gear. Edited January 27, 2017 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 I hope you're talking about Master Mode. Veteran Mode should be completable by a semi-progression guild, and the more skilled PuG group, otherwise we have the same issue as with Rav/ToS. Master Mode can be tuned for the top % of players (with new mechanics, not just higher numbers) but it would probably not be on a level of Dread Guards or Tanks because too many good players have left. If they tune the boss for the players that have killed Brontes MM post-5.0, it's just not worth it financially. My point is that Tyth in Veteran should at least be as difficult as a sword squadron or a pre nerf bulo. Something that wouldn't be one shot, but would require some progression to learn the mechanics. Not a straight tank and spank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 My point is that Tyth in Veteran should at least be as difficult as a sword squadron or a pre nerf bulo. Something that wouldn't be one shot, but would require some progression to learn the mechanics. Not a straight tank and spank. Agreed, those bosses were appropriately tuned for VM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Yup! As long as they're chewy it's gonna be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFacelessOne Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I secound this! Make him as hard as possible, even in Story... Maybe somekind of "Gear Check" like the orginal Patchwerk in WoW Vanillia or 1st Boss in Bloodhunt Heroic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 I secound this! Make him as hard as possible, even in Story... Maybe somekind of "Gear Check" like the orginal Patchwerk in WoW Vanillia or 1st Boss in Bloodhunt Heroic!!! Maybe not in story for the sake of people actually being able to play the content, but yeah there needs to be significant difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoblinator Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 /signed It'd be quite poor to have people going "welp, that one boss was a joke - and now there's nothing new to be excited about again for the next few months." 'Chewy' would be good. I'm looking forward to (more) progression raiding, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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