Thoughts on Vanguard changes?

[AWantedMan]

I'm curious as to the communities thoughts on what they changed about vanguards specifically. Granted, I am a filthy Imperial main, but I have noticed that the range has shortened a bit yet the AOE is still very decent (at least with tactics, I haven't tried the others. . . . yet.) I saw some people disliking the changes but i think they're fine, though that could just be me, being only level 43 on it. Thoughts? Edited December 30, 2016 by AWantedMan
didn't put enough info

[TalonVII]

Absolutely hate the changes to PT/VG. Absolute garbage.

[Miroslaww]

I hate the changes too. Especially the range decrease.

[RegorStarflyer]

The changes for PT/VG are complete and utter garbage. Shatter slug? Are you serious? I don't even use it in my rotation anymore. Deadly Onslaught? *** is that nonsense? I mean really developers... oh look I can move while channeling a now garbage animation AoE. The new flamethrower? Get that poodoo off my hotbar right now. Also the heat management is complete garbage now. The class is now no longer fun to play. I used to enjoy my PT and VG but since the changes, the character is just a crafting mule now. I'm seriously thinking of deleting all my PT's and VG's because of the changes. Even though I have some really cool armor/mounts/toys on said characters. Whoever put the bounty out on PT's/VG's needs to have a bounty put out on them. Completely unsatisfied.

Sincerely an X powertech

[DarthCadius]

The changes for PT/VG are complete and utter garbage. Shatter slug? Are you serious? I don't even use it in my rotation anymore. Deadly Onslaught? *** is that nonsense? I mean really developers... oh look I can move while channeling a now garbage animation AoE. The new flamethrower? Get that poodoo off my hotbar right now. Also the heat management is complete garbage now. The class is now no longer fun to play. I used to enjoy my PT and VG but since the changes, the character is just a crafting mule now. I'm seriously thinking of deleting all my PT's and VG's because of the changes. Even though I have some really cool armor/mounts/toys on said characters. Whoever put the bounty out on PT's/VG's needs to have a bounty put out on them. Completely unsatisfied.

Sincerely an X powertech

Exactly how I feel and now use my PT/VG.. ALLthey are is crafting bots........ I LOVED PT/VG because they were semi ranged tankable but now...... what is even the point of having a gun...........

[PrincessShAmy]

Good to know that I am not the only one that feels this way. I thought it was just me complaining and refusing to adept to change. My friends would tell me that vanguards are a melee class and therefore should not have range. I have a gun! Makes no sense to me whatsoever. While I don't main a vanguard, I was trying to learn how to tank because I love the toon. However, with the changes that they made, it doesn't flow at all. Going to try Plasmatech for a little while but I prefer ranged DPS. Only reason I dealt with melee was because it made sense as a tank. Hopefully I will figure out how to play one of my favorite toons despite it all.

[Udoroththefinal]

Abysmal changes that ruin on both classes, abysmal range and defenses

 

If you want to play dps on trooper or BH you have to auto pick merc/mando at this point as they far out perform

 

I still play tactics vang/ap pt becuase I love the more "active playstyle insted of being a glorified turrents and as such is rather play this playstyle even if Im mediocre

Edited January 1, 2017 by Udoroththefinal

[TalonVII]

It's asinine when the DPS versions of the trooper/BH tank better than the actual TANK CLASS.

[AWantedMan]

Damn that really stinks. I was wanting to lvl up a vanguard since I like the idea of mobile, hit and run, tank. Looks like that's changed for the worst. I suppose the Sith Juggs will do until it's been changed.

[TalonVII]

Damn that really stinks. I was wanting to lvl up a vanguard since I like the idea of mobile, hit and run, tank. Looks like that's changed for the worst. I suppose the Sith Juggs will do until it's been changed.

 

Not mobile and you're bringing a gun to a saber fight. Except in tactics where assault plastic has a 30 meter range, the only other ability you have at 30 meter range is the basic attack: Hammer shot.

 

EVERYTHING else is 10m or less and it freaking SUCKS.

[AWantedMan]

Not mobile and you're bringing a gun to a saber fight. Except in tactics where assault plastic has a 30 meter range, the only other ability you have at 30 meter range is the basic attack: Hammer shot.

 

EVERYTHING else is 10m or less and it freaking SUCKS.

 

Is it still worth playing if I were to do only PvE material?(operations, flashpoints, lvling etc.)

I don't plan on doing PvP (got flamed kinda hard last time I tried) when I'm max level. I'm mostly in it for the story.

[V-dark]

Is it still worth playing if I were to do only PvE material?(operations, flashpoints, lvling etc.)

I don't plan on doing PvP (got flamed kinda hard last time I tried) when I'm max level. I'm mostly in it for the story.

 

For story mode content its fine, in fact i acually have alot of fun on my tactics vg. Though the energy management sucks...I say give it a go.

 

For plasmatech however, they basically killed any hope this spec had(IMO). The damage from Ion Wave is absolutely horrible, Pulse Cannon was so much better, i don't know why they felt the need to remove it.

 

As for PvP, from a competitive standpoint, there currently the worst pick due to being focused/burned down too easily, they just lack any anti focus/anti stun utilities atm. But if you really enjoy playing the class then regs are fine, don't let those people get to you.(i would avoid ranked pvp however)

[Xienive]

PT use to be my favorite class. I find it to be a pretty meh class after the changes. Hate the replacement for flamethrower, and despise the replacement for death from above. Both animations are terrible, and don't function as well in my opinion. Also, rail shot 30m needs to be restored. Can't fathom how they thought these changes would make the class more fun.

[TalonVII]

Is it still worth playing if I were to do only PvE material?(operations, flashpoints, lvling etc.)

I don't plan on doing PvP (got flamed kinda hard last time I tried) when I'm max level. I'm mostly in it for the story.

 

Even for PVE lower level rotation blows, power management is TERRIBLE. And the fact you have to run up to 10m means everytime you want to catch a mob unaware, you really can't.

 

Just freaking horrible.

[Ottoattack]

The damage got nerfed across the board on all 3 specs.

 

Pyro, as always, the worst spec in the game. Removing flame thrower was a step in the right direction, but the spec is lacking in all forms of damage and has the worst survivability of all dps specs in the game. For PvP absolutely obsolete.

 

AP damage has been continuously gimped in 4.0 - 5.0. It still is a burst spec, but hardly threatening. Now no range and gutted AOE. It lacks the damage and range to compete in anything.

 

Overall, what bothers me the most, is my main is PT, and I chose PT, cuz it was a mobile with multiple 30 meter range skills that plays as mid range. It was the appeal for most people who played the class as well. The changes in 4.0 and 5.0 ruined the class main appeal and performance. If I wanted to play a melee class I would have chosen one with a light saber, or at least with a melee weapon.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Jedi_riches]

Not mobile and you're bringing a gun to a saber fight. Except in tactics where assault plastic has a 30 meter range, the only other ability you have at 30 meter range is the basic attack: Hammer shot.

 

EVERYTHING else is 10m or less and it freaking SUCKS.

 

And to think Bioware moved jet storm/charge up to level 50, you would have thought if they nerfed range that much they should have made these abilities gained at low levels, I mean what would happen if they moved force jump to level 50 not level 4? it's basically the same thing so why do knights/warriors get it so early and Vanguards/Powertechs get theirs so late?

[Kurrax_Raptorr]

And to think Bioware moved jet storm/charge up to level 50, you would have thought if they nerfed range that much they should have made these abilities gained at low levels, I mean what would happen if they moved force jump to level 50 not level 4? it's basically the same thing so why do knights/warriors get it so early and Vanguards/Powertechs get theirs so late?

 

So I have a powertech, never had a VG, so decided to roll one while a friend made a gunslinger. So for a "melee" class not to have its Gap Closer at level 10 or lower is a nightmare. If i had some more 15m or 30m abilities other than my basic pew pew it would be at least forgivable to move jetstorm/charge up to 50, but its ridiculous. The class needs help ASAP. You could literally swap our gap closer with ANY POWER and make the class 1000x more fun to play.

 

Originally PT and VG were billed as ranged tanks, turning them into melee I think was a mistake and just made them more of the same. Also I feel any class billed as melee should have a gap closer at level 1. This is a game where we are supposed to play with other people, at least let us be useful. Ranged does not always have to be king.

[Xintross]

Is it still worth playing if I were to do only PvE material?(operations, flashpoints, lvling etc.)

I don't plan on doing PvP (got flamed kinda hard last time I tried) when I'm max level. I'm mostly in it for the story.

 

I suppose that depends on how you define "worth playing". Yeah, you can get through the content, since your companions will do most of the work anyways. It's not going to be fun at all though. Not when compared to Commando's version of Tactics.

[Udoroththefinal]

Is it still worth playing if I were to do only PvE material?(operations, flashpoints, lvling etc.)

I don't plan on doing PvP (got flamed kinda hard last time I tried) when I'm max level. I'm mostly in it for the story.

Just roll a merc/mando

 

The 30m range means that you can be a safe distance from most bosses, ez rotations, better dcds/durability/defense options, way better AoE to clear mobs fast, and much much easier energy management

 

 

In every aspect; Merc/Mando outperform PT/Vang

Edited January 13, 2017 by Udoroththefinal

[Ottoattack]

Just roll a merc/mando

 

The 30m range means that you can be a safe distance from most bosses, ez rotations, better dcds/durability/defense options, way better AoE to clear mobs fast, and much much easier energy management

 

 

In every aspect; Merc/Mando outperform PT/Vang

 

While AP PT is not the absolute worst among dps classes, Pyro surely is. Even AP PT burst now is not strong enough to pressure anything outside explosive fuel. It is a very bad time to play PT.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Nezyrworks]

Just roll a merc/mando

 

The 30m range means that you can be a safe distance from most bosses, ez rotations, better dcds/durability/defense options, way better AoE to clear mobs fast, and much much easier energy management

 

 

In every aspect; Merc/Mando outperform PT/Vang

 

Or learn to play.

 

See this is a problem of 90% of you guys. Been playing PT/VG since pre-relase, and while i do think a small defensive buff would be nice, plus they could combine some utilities, VG/PT is still an absolute beast in terms of burst, and kiting - And this is where your survivability starts (excluding pyro - RIP).

 

You want an easy game, when you just point and shoot at anyone? Go battlefront (yes i know how bad it is).

 

TBH. I had pulled 6.5 dps on TR here and there (usualy rolling 4.5+k), consistently putting at least 3.5k dps on normals. Solo is very tricky, and yes, you can survive focus of 4 other classes if your teamates are at least average, and no - you don't realy need their help all that much to do this (they just all need to burst the same target).

 

PT from a mindless class with two buttons and no internal cooldown on PPA became a class that requires above average skills to shine. And i actually am happy about that.

 

Everything in PVP is a challenge, that you can solve if you can learn how to adapt, and change perspective. Dwelling on the past will only make more FOTM rollers.

 

So i dare you! I double dare you! Go play that merc and stop posting if you can't adapt to class changes.

 

Also: Miner on Windows is still for free

[Udoroththefinal]

Or learn to play.

 

See this is a problem of 90% of you guys. Been playing PT/VG since pre-relase, and while i do think a small defensive buff would be nice, plus they could combine some utilities, VG/PT is still an absolute beast in terms of burst, and kiting - And this is where your survivability starts (excluding pyro - RIP).

 

You want an easy game, when you just point and shoot at anyone? Go battlefront (yes i know how bad it is).

 

TBH. I had pulled 6.5 dps on TR here and there (usualy rolling 4.5+k), consistently putting at least 3.5k dps on normals. Solo is very tricky, and yes, you can survive focus of 4 other classes if your teamates are at least average, and no - you don't realy need their help all that much to do this (they just all need to burst the same target).

 

PT from a mindless class with two buttons and no internal cooldown on PPA became a class that requires above average skills to shine. And i actually am happy about that.

 

Everything in PVP is a challenge, that you can solve if you can learn how to adapt, and change perspective. Dwelling on the past will only make more FOTM rollers.

 

So i dare you! I double dare you! Go play that merc and stop posting if you can't adapt to class changes.

 

Also: Miner on Windows is still for free

 

Wonderful, truly

 

Guess what, It dosnt matter because you bothered to read my post or what it was responding to you would see that they were asking about and I was responding to their question about pt/vang performance in PVE but here you are telling about how great you are at pvp

 

Additionally it dosnt matter how high skill you feel pts are or how it's important that they have a lot of apm now the fact of the matter is that all of the PT and vang specs are inferior or unequal to their respective faction alternatives; tank spec is weaker than both sins and juggs with worse dcd's and biting like a wet noodle and dps wise ap and tactics can't compare to Decption sins, mercs, snipers and Maras, their just an inferior choice now that they are basically a melee range class which pts weren't they were a hybrid class, if we want wanted to play melee we would have picked a class with a saber.

 

and regardless of how well you did on your pt you would have done better on a merc as I stated before they have better burst and sustain, better range, energy management and defenses along with better kiting potential

 

 

People are shelving thier PTs for a reason or re rolling mercs and contrary to popular belief this isn't a L2P issue that apparently only you figured out, in this current gearing system you cannot afford to have a billion alts, you need to focus on a few characters so their is no point to playing one that performs like **** in both pvp and pve compared to much better alternatives

Edited January 15, 2017 by Udoroththefinal

[Nezyrworks]

Wonderful, truly

 

Guess what, It dosnt matter because you bothered to read my post or what it was responding to you would see that they were asking about and I was responding to their question about pt/vang performance in PVE but here you are telling about how great you are at pvp

 

Additionally it dosnt matter how high skill you feel pts are or how it's important that they have a lot of apm now the fact of the matter is that all of the PT and vang specs are inferior or unequal to their respective faction alternatives; tank spec is weaker than both sins and juggs with worse dcd's and biting like a wet noodle and dps wise ap and tactics can't compare to Decption sins, mercs, snipers and Maras, their just an inferior choice now that they are basically a melee range class which pts weren't they were a hybrid class, if we want wanted to play melee we would have picked a class with a saber.

 

and regardless of how well you did on your pt you would have done better on a merc as I stated before they have better burst and sustain, better range, energy management and defenses along with better kiting potential

 

 

People are shelving thier PTs for a reason or re rolling mercs and contrary to popular belief this isn't a L2P issue that apparently only you figured out, in this current gearing system you cannot afford to have a billion alts, you need to focus on a few characters so their is no point to playing one that performs like **** in both pvp and pve compared to much better alternatives

 

********. Truly. I haven't read such a post in a while.

 

People are shelving PT because they are dumb. Tank spec is far from being inferior to jugg, pushing 3.5k dps on TR games.

 

While i do admire your love to a merc, let me tell you how to deal with him: Stun and dont attack. Is it simple? Was your brain fried in a process? Probably.

 

AP PT/TAC VG is in a good spot. Not the best tho. You can push the burst noone else does, and quite frankly i would like to see your WZ or TR dps results.

 

PT tank can out dps about any other tank spec, and is the only viable response to so much used MM Sniper right now. If you have troubles dealing 3.5k dps on ranked i suggest target dummy and full dps gear with at least 46% crit.

 

As for AP, the advantage you have is that in 12 second window you can outburst about any other class, and still kite like mad, provided you took 75% slow on Mutilating Shards.

 

Anyway, as much as i like your tryhard response mercs are not that OP and can be dealth with on PT 1v1 regardless of their spec. You just need to learn how to counter merc cooldowns, thats it. And yes i do play a merc in 1v1, solo q, and TR.

 

VG/PT specs are not inferior. Do not treat them as such. Sure if u will go pyro GL to you. But as we all know pyro was **** for the last 3 years. AP on the other hand is about as good or better as the marauder. Just learn how to use 3 stuns, carbonize and your sonic. And for the sake of all PTs/VGs. learn to use range and kite. It is that simple.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Nezyrworks

[TalonVII]

********. Truly. I haven't read such a post in a while.

 

People are shelving PT because they are dumb. Tank spec is far from being inferior to jugg, pushing 3.5k dps on TR games.

 

While i do admire your love to a merc, let me tell you how to deal with him: Stun and dont attack. Is it simple? Was your brain fried in a process? Probably.

 

AP PT/TAC VG is in a good spot. Not the best tho. You can push the burst noone else does, and quite frankly i would like to see your WZ or TR dps results.

 

PT tank can out dps about any other tank spec, and is the only viable response to so much used MM Sniper right now. If you have troubles dealing 3.5k dps on ranked i suggest target dummy and full dps gear with at least 46% crit.

 

As for AP, the advantage you have is that in 12 second window you can outburst about any other class, and still kite like mad, provided you took 75% slow on Mutilating Shards.

 

Anyway, as much as i like your tryhard response mercs are not that OP and can be dealth with on PT 1v1 regardless of their spec. You just need to learn how to counter merc cooldowns, thats it. And yes i do play a merc in 1v1, solo q, and TR.

 

VG/PT specs are not inferior. Do not treat them as such. Sure if u will go pyro GL to you. But as we all know pyro was **** for the last 3 years. AP on the other hand is about as good or better as the marauder. Just learn how to use 3 stuns, carbonize and your sonic. And for the sake of all PTs/VGs. learn to use range and kite. It is that simple.

 

Good spot? Wait what? That's cute. really cute.

[Ottoattack]

Or learn to play.

 

See this is a problem of 90% of you guys. Been playing PT/VG since pre-relase, and while i do think a small defensive buff would be nice, plus they could combine some utilities, VG/PT is still an absolute beast in terms of burst, and kiting - And this is where your survivability starts (excluding pyro - RIP).

 

You want an easy game, when you just point and shoot at anyone? Go battlefront (yes i know how bad it is).

 

TBH. I had pulled 6.5 dps on TR here and there (usualy rolling 4.5+k), consistently putting at least 3.5k dps on normals. Solo is very tricky, and yes, you can survive focus of 4 other classes if your teamates are at least average, and no - you don't realy need their help all that much to do this (they just all need to burst the same target).

 

PT from a mindless class with two buttons and no internal cooldown on PPA became a class that requires above average skills to shine. And i actually am happy about that.

 

Everything in PVP is a challenge, that you can solve if you can learn how to adapt, and change perspective. Dwelling on the past will only make more FOTM rollers.

 

So i dare you! I double dare you! Go play that merc and stop posting if you can't adapt to class changes.

 

Also: Miner on Windows is still for free

 

There is so much miss info here. First, this "2 button" myth has been debunked a long time ago. And to keep you up with the updates, all PT specs had the same skills and rotations since 3.0, more than 2 years ago. What changed is performance and range.

 

And when I hear AP PT has great burst, I assume you have not played or seen, Dec sins, Fury mara, Carnage mara, MM sniper and Arsenal Merc. So AP now is a fifth rated burst spec with mediocre sustained damage

 

The only thing AP PT has going on is mobility and support. It does not offer much otherwise.

 

You want talk about change that no one asked for and completely ruined the class? The culling of range.

 

Yes, AP PT and tank are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to performance, but in comparison with other classes it is crystal clear they are behind considerably. Mercs are not as good as people claim, but there is no questions they are head and shoulders above PT in performance.

 

Last thing, pyro PT sadly still exist, and seem it is going to remain the worst spec till the end of time/

Edited January 15, 2017 by Ottoattack