Tactics Vanguard/AP PT feels awful to play now.

[ForjKlahaa]

I'm probably a bit late to the party because I never mained this spec but when I played through BH/Trooper classes I always picked this as it was simple and fun. I'm not going to pretend I was awesome at playing it but I could hold my own in group content.

 

I was already a bit peeved when they nerfed the range on on HIB/Railshot last year but now going back to level these characters to 70, everything feels wrong. The replacements for DFA and Mortar Volley are so rubbish I can barely force myself to use them even in single player combat. One of my grenades has turned into... I don't know what, I have even LESS range than before (even for a melee class where most ACs get a couple of good ranged abilities), I feel really weak and my energy management is for sh-t.

 

Gaining those five levels on my vanguard was excruciating and it made me not want to touch either class again. I probably have to re- L2P and that's a fair comment but I feel like I've been sandbagged.

[Bang-A-Rang]

In general every spec for PT/Vanguard is weak.. PT is always my go to character because I loved the original story, but it's been slowly destroyed and after 5.0 is pretty ridiculous. I typically don't complain, but the tank differences alone are staggering .

[Balameb]

Just before 5.0 i made a PT AP.to try the BH I loved it. After 5.0 it feels like a melee class, if the main weapon is a 30m range blaster why does every ability is 10m or less, beats me. Granades gets more range than missils

True, even as a DPS feels like a tank, but still silly to play a ranged class as melee.

So i cloned the toon into a Merc, that is how a ranged class should be

[Nortumberland]

Yeah it's totally awful now - both practically and visually. I think I could survive 10m zone ugly skills, but only if Jet Charge was lvl 10. Making it lvl 60 and leaving all abilities melee is laughable... Re-rolled a merc. Never liked a turret style, but PT just makes me cry. Edited December 22, 2016 by Nortumberland

[ForjKlahaa]

Yeah it's totally awful now - both practically and visually. I think I could survive 10m zone ugly skills, but only if Jet Charge was lvl 10. Making it lvl 60 and leaving all abilities melee is laughable... Re-rolled a merc. Never liked a turret style, but PT just makes me cry.

 

What??? I didn't notice the change because my toons were 65 already but that has clinched it. Never rolling a fresh vanguard or PT again (or until they make some changes).

[Nemoticon]

Just before 5.0 i made a PT AP.to try the BH I loved it. After 5.0 it feels like a melee class, if the main weapon is a 30m range blaster why does every ability is 10m or less, beats me. Granades gets more range than missils

True, even as a DPS feels like a tank, but still silly to play a ranged class as melee.

So i cloned the toon into a Merc, that is how a ranged class should be

 

The AP-PT was always meant to be a melees spec with some mid-range reach, the latest patch ensures each sub-class is more defined and resulted in the AP-PT having much better melee abilities than before. If you want a ranged sub-class, that's what the Merc is for. This was always the intention... not to mention, the AP-PT plays beautifully now, a well thought out class with great utility and mobility.

[BetterThanLife]

The AP-PT was always meant to be a melees spec with some mid-range reach, the latest patch ensures each sub-class is more defined and resulted in the AP-PT having much better melee abilities than before. If you want a ranged sub-class, that's what the Merc is for. This was always the intention... not to mention, the AP-PT plays beautifully now, a well thought out class with great utility and mobility.

 

Once they started pulling the range from the Vanguard, I stopped playing my Vanguard, though I just started again, to get it to 70. It has just gotten worse since then.

 

All the Cinematics use a sidearm instead of the rifle anyway. If this is truly going to be a melee class, then make Storm level 5, ditch the rifle altogether, go with Pistol, Chainsword and Jump Pack and do it right.

 

If you want it to act like a 40K assault marine, arm it like one.

Edited December 23, 2016 by BetterThanLife
Minor clarification.

[Nortumberland]

The AP-PT was always meant to be a melees spec with some mid-range reach, the latest patch ensures each sub-class is more defined and resulted in the AP-PT having much better melee abilities than before. If you want a ranged sub-class, that's what the Merc is for. This was always the intention... not to mention, the AP-PT plays beautifully now, a well thought out class with great utility and mobility.

 

If you search for very old (2012 or so) SWTOR threads/guides etc. you'll see that PT/VG were meant to be ranged tanks actually. Yes, some key abilities were 4-10m range, but there was a lot of 30m skills either. PPL remember full auto/hib/sticky etc to be totally ranged. Even the concept and animations were meant to be used from range. Skills like unload(no more avaliable)/rail shot/explosive dart look stupid when used in CQC. So no. They were never meant to be pure melee class like war/knight.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Nortumberland

[ForjKlahaa]

The AP-PT was always meant to be a melees spec with some mid-range reach, the latest patch ensures each sub-class is more defined and resulted in the AP-PT having much better melee abilities than before. If you want a ranged sub-class, that's what the Merc is for. This was always the intention... not to mention, the AP-PT plays beautifully now, a well thought out class with great utility and mobility.

 

I couldn't disagree more but I guess that''s personal preference. I agree that it's a melee class and I always play it that way but it was always a mid-range melee class which made it unique over other melee classes and made up for other shortcomings like it's single target DPS being on the low side. Now jet charge is trained at 59 instead of 22, DFA has gone from 30m to 10 and hits like a wet noodle. explosive dart has been replaced with a 10m ability down from 30, Railshot was nerfed to 10m last year and the only mobility we have now is Hydraulic Overrides on a 45sec (35 with utility) cooldown and the only 30m abilties we have are the basic attack and thermal detonator. Compare that to other classes like assassin with force speed every 15 secs, phantom stride every 30, a 30m low slash that does decent damage and CC and a 30m 8 second mezz or a marauder with force charge at level 1, predation every 30 seconds, mad dash every 45?secs and 30m dual saber throw.

 

I just feel like it sucks to be me practically walking up to enemies/players who are all flying over the battlefield or sitting like a turret and still being able to attack everything that moves.

[tavrinDosa]

The AP-PT was always meant to be a melees spec with some mid-range reach, the latest patch ensures each sub-class is more defined and resulted in the AP-PT having much better melee abilities than before. If you want a ranged sub-class, that's what the Merc is for. This was always the intention... not to mention, the AP-PT plays beautifully now, a well thought out class with great utility and mobility.

 

Yeh this is definitely not the case. AP-PT plays like it has t rex arms. no way to kite and no way to keep up with other burst classes. Before the range of the class was beautiful you were able to keep burst high while kiting and keeping melee dmg on you low. now pretty much all utility is gone, yeh you can run away fast but what is the point if all your dmg abilities are 10m. Its a sad joke. if trauma regulators was a pt ability instead of a merc utility all would be well in the world. PT could survive at melee range while keeping up dmg and mercs wouldnt be dcd gods anymore.

[Thaladan]

Real problem is the damage.

 

- rail shot is 10m range and does less damage than merc rail shot/magshot at 30m and even with an autocrit for pyro ..

 

- heatseeker missile better than energy burst and...guess what : 30m

 

just 2 examples...and i think we'll don't have to compare the defensives abilities between mercs and PT actually.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Thaladan

[Nezyrworks]

Guys, support the thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=907857

 

This could fix the whole global merc problem, and fix us PTs in terms of survivability at least.

[BetterThanLife]

I couldn't disagree more but I guess that''s personal preference. I agree that it's a melee class and I always play it that way but it was always a mid-range melee class which made it unique over other melee classes and made up for other shortcomings like it's single target DPS being on the low side. Now jet charge is trained at 59 instead of 22, DFA has gone from 30m to 10 and hits like a wet noodle. explosive dart has been replaced with a 10m ability down from 30, Railshot was nerfed to 10m last year and the only mobility we have now is Hydraulic Overrides on a 45sec (35 with utility) cooldown and the only 30m abilties we have are the basic attack and thermal detonator. Compare that to other classes like assassin with force speed every 15 secs, phantom stride every 30, a 30m low slash that does decent damage and CC and a 30m 8 second mezz or a marauder with force charge at level 1, predation every 30 seconds, mad dash every 45?secs and 30m dual saber throw.

 

I just feel like it sucks to be me practically walking up to enemies/players who are all flying over the battlefield or sitting like a turret and still being able to attack everything that moves.

As someone that has played since Beta, the Vanguard shield spec was designed as a Ranged Tank. In fact that was the description. It was not always meant to be a melee character. A melee character is just what it has become.

 

If it is supposed to be a Melee character, then why is Storm a level 60 ability?

 

The main difference between the Vanguard Tank and the Guardian Tank now is the Vanguard can't deal the damage, and isn't very good at holding threat (in comparison). On the other side of the coin the Vanguard has lots of low damage AOE, so in situations where you can't use AOE, Tanking the two armored vehicle fight, in Explosive Conflict as an example, the Vanguard Tank is at a serious disadvantage.

 

Why would I want to play a Vanguard or Powertech when I can play a Guardian or Juggernaut?

[ForjKlahaa]

As someone that has played since Beta, the Vanguard shield spec was designed as a Ranged Tank. In fact that was the description. It was not always meant to be a melee character. A melee character is just what it has become.

 

If it is supposed to be a Melee character, then why is Storm a level 60 ability?

 

The main difference between the Vanguard Tank and the Guardian Tank now is the Vanguard can't deal the damage, and isn't very good at holding threat (in comparison). On the other side of the coin the Vanguard has lots of low damage AOE, so in situations where you can't use AOE, Tanking the two armored vehicle fight, in Explosive Conflict as an example, the Vanguard Tank is at a serious disadvantage.

 

Why would I want to play a Vanguard or Powertech when I can play a Guardian or Juggernaut?

 

I don't play the AC as a tank but we are probably in in agreement. Whether you call it a ranged class or a melee class doesn't change the fact that it always had a mix of melee and mid-to-long-range abilities with decent mobility. This made it attractive in some fights over other melee classes which is how it should be. Every class should have it's moment to shine but this one has been gutted, making it wholly unappealing.

 

My main point is that now there is no BH/Trooper AC that I can have fun playing even through story content (forget grouping). I hate dots and being rooted in one spot channelling abilities so APPT and tactics were perfect for me... until now.

[Ottoattack]

Yes AP currently sucks. I am one of the older players as most of my time with the game was in versions 1.00 through end of 2.00, but played through every iteration. It is funny that after 5 years the devs still have no f**kin idea how PT dps specs perform/designed.

 

Are DPS specs burst, AOE, sustain, dot, melee, ranged, short ranged? Should they have a leap? Should they not have a leap? These things keep changing around and the dps specs keep swinging on ideology, performance and function. My only conclusion is that the devs (at least responsible for PT) are dumb.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Ottoattack

[Udoroththefinal]

A ranged class that has to play at melee range, vulnerable to both melee and ranged with no the justification in either the surviveabilty or dmg

 

Every time I play either ap pt or tatics vang (cause none of the other class specs are viable in the least) I have a nagging voice telling me in be a lot more effective as a merc/mando

 

The class is inferior in both pvp and pve

[Miroslaww]

Vanguard is not fun anymore. I do not like at all that they are completely a melee class now. A class armed with a rifle does not make sense being a melee class. Playing the 3.0 version was much more fun (30m HiB, 15m tactical surge), now it is just boring. I do not mind vanguards having lower damage, the range is the main issue for me.

 

Also I find it weird that both rifle classes in game (vanguard and operative) have shorter range than the two ranged pistol classes (gunslinger and mercenary), pistol is a very short ranged weapon.

[Xienive]

My first favorite class in this game was Shadow, which now isn't even close to as much fun as it once was.

Then, for the longest running time, my favorite class in the game was the PT, but I have to agree it just isn't fun now. The replacement for DFA is god awful. It's ugly as all get out, and the mobility of it isn't even that useful. It was more useful to have the range from DFA which also looked much cooler. Totally agree about the range on railshot too. There's that ability that lets you use skills at 30m for a time, but what's the point in using it for AP if it doesn't work with railshot too? That ability should have always kept its range.

 

Pyro is just as bad if not worse now though with the change to flamethrower. Uglier and less damage, what a great change devs!

 

I'm a BH guy, so naturally with this update I have switched my main from my PT to my Merc that I've also had for a while. There are 0 reasons to ever play my PT over my merc. They need to stop changing things that have been established in the game for long periods of time.

[TalonVII]

My first favorite class in this game was Shadow, which now isn't even close to as much fun as it once was.

Then, for the longest running time, my favorite class in the game was the PT, but I have to agree it just isn't fun now. The replacement for DFA is god awful. It's ugly as all get out, and the mobility of it isn't even that useful. It was more useful to have the range from DFA which also looked much cooler. Totally agree about the range on railshot too. There's that ability that lets you use skills at 30m for a time, but what's the point in using it for AP if it doesn't work with railshot too? That ability should have always kept its range.

 

Pyro is just as bad if not worse now though with the change to flamethrower. Uglier and less damage, what a great change devs!

 

I'm a BH guy, so naturally with this update I have switched my main from my PT to my Merc that I've also had for a while. There are 0 reasons to ever play my PT over my merc. They need to stop changing things that have been established in the game for long periods of time.

 

I actually took my long time PT, transferred everything I could and rerolled him as a Merc. I'm that ticked about the class. And trying to do a new vanguard with all the changes is just PAINFUL.