It's not Enough

[Tsillah]

No, not going to wear this. This is you unfairly twisting my argument to make it a debate over who is elitist and my attitude towards raiding in general. Right or wrong those are side issues.

Totall bull. This thread is not about special treatment, that is your twisting of the topic. Your whole argument is based on your rotten, condescending opinion of raiders that you seem to generalise as you see fit. You have no arguments, just ufair characterisations of people who are different from you.

 

There are 2 main issues here:

Not rewarding people who beat challlenging content enough relative to the challenge level compared to rewarding people equally for just showing up and bumming around.

Secondly the content in this game is old, old, old. To up that content twice and force people to start over at the bottom again is just not right.

 

Your characterisations are therefore unfair, untrue and undeserved.

 

 

The point of this thread is the op and it would seem raiders in general want preferential treatment for doing operations, because...reasons. In one breath your saying we are all players together and we are all equal, then we get this self-centred thread. Forgive me for feeling that some people think that certain content is 'more equal' than others with respect to gearing.

It's not preferential treatment, it's reward vs effort.

 

If you give equal rewards to people who put in more effort as those who just show up then there is an inconsistency. Do you think that someone who doesn't work should get the same salary as someone who does? Is the person who wants a salary if he works for it demanding preferential treatment then?

 

You can't reward people equally if they do not put in at least relatively equal effort. There has to be a difference. If not you encourage laziness. Then the people who input more leave, the game gets dumber and dumber, which makes the game boring. You cannot chase too many people away and that's what you suggest will do.

 

You are wrong for pretty much the same reasons communism doesn't work, because nobody gets rewarded for excelling or doing something extra. It's a nice ideal but it doesn't work to give everybody the same.

 

And you have to stop thinking in absolutes. A lot of raiders don't have RAV and TOS HM on farm nor all the NiM content. That's a small group of people that can even claim that because a lot of those more hard core raiders are gone. A lot of raiders are not that good and are still struggling with various bosses in HM and NiM. For them the challenge is there but what's the point if it's not rewarding? You can only make yourself repeat something so many times if there is no pay off for your rewards.

 

I'm not twisting anything. You are. In your mind you've replaced the actual topic of the thread with your ill conceived generalisations. You have not offered a single proper argument why this is about preferential treatment. People simple feel that if they put in a certain effort there should be a reward. There is nothing special about that unless you are someone who just wants to validate their own deficiencies as the norm for everything.

 

I'm not falling for that one.

[gabigool]

Gearing alts is a universal issue for everyone, not just raiders

 

Really? As, in, seriously? That's funny.

 

 

Yes I do need gear to play pvp, now more than ever. If I fight a player in full 240 set gear I'm going to get smashed, bolster or not.

 

Not true. IF all other things are equal (they are nearly always not so), you could argue you would be at a disadvantage 1v1. And you could theoretically lose a fight and even a match as a result. Aside from being disappointed (which, if you use that as an argument, puts you dangerously close to the special snowflake place) do you amass repair bills? Do you get exactly zero credit towards your weekly? Zero CXP? Zero Tokens?

 

You poor thing.

 

Listen, I'm not saying it might not be a problem. But as it seems to me gear will be obtained much, much faster via PvP than PvE, the advantage goes to the player with the most time. So what's next, throttling people's login time? At some point it gets ridiculous. PvE tokens on bosses will not affect you in the slightest. The bulk of the T3 gear smashing you won't be coming from NM Brontes.

 

No it doesn't, your view is solely based on your perception that raiding is more difficult than any other content. I disagree, I believe pvp is. Raiding is nothing more than glorified line dancing, once everyone learns their dance steps its easy and you farm the boss. With pvp, every match is unique.

 

I think this is a pretty stupid argument for anyone to make. They are different animals. Arguing either way is pointless. And your particular argument is ignorant.

 

That said, I will happily argue that obtaining gear in this "new" system is easier in PvP than PvE. So while you can complain that the very small number of players that do gear via PvE are at an advantage, reality is nearly all T3 gear is going to come from PvP. As such I see no problem.

 

Fair enough, retracted. I've battled the raid elitists for so long in wow that I tend to lump everyone in the same category. Apologies. My overall point still stands, go raid in wow, a game dedicated to raiding, and in every raid you are guaranteed nothing. Yet for some reason in this game where raiding is niche at best, the players want guaranteed drops.

 

This is flawed at such a low, basic, fundamental level that it's scary if you're not actually trolling.

[Quraswren]

Honest question, have you done all the operations as different roles? I'd imagine they would be different as a healer or tank as opposed to dps. Or doesn't that matter, is it still boring regardless? I've only ever done sm, I've never seen HM.

 

Yes, at this point there still boring no matter what difficulty it is. As most content is 2-5 years old it can get boring. Since GC hinders doing the only new content we have - uprisings, there is no reason to really play alts at all. Even if you wanted to play alts the game makes sure to hinder actually doing that. Plus uprisings are not all that good to begin with.

 

New content might have made some of GC a bit more acceptable but like it is. It's a crap fest expansion once the story is done and it wasn't so good that it made you forget about bws mistakes.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Quraswren

[Haggian]

The OP has good ideas and some good comments.

 

The ONLY thing that can truly fix/save this game is NEW OPEN WORLD GROUP CONTENT, NEW FLASHPOINTS, NEW OPERATIONS, engaging story driven MMO STYLE quests.

 

Do it, and reap the rewards, anything less and sadly, you are prolonging the inevitable.