RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[curulz]

This is by far more ideal than what we had before, where many never even had a chance at better gear due to the RNG nature of finding a quality group or guild who would help.

 

False. Finding a good team or guild for HM operations was not RNG

[curulz]

Finding good guilds or raid groups was RNG. Most guilds in MMOs are terrible. They have no structure. They have no purpose. They are glorified chat rooms and nothing else. The actual quality guilds are few and far between and aren't always easy to get into. .

 

There you go trying to change definitions again. Scarcity of good guilds and difficulty in joining doesn't make it random

[Aowin]

If equality were the actual goal of the system, it would not have the RNG nature of the gear drops.

 

By it's very nature, it's not possible to have equality.

 

Had GC been released with token drops, or endgame currency, or something similar, we would not be having this discussion right now.

 

You misunderstand. The new progression system is a two-prong mechanism. Galactic Command is the inclusive mechanism while RNG is meant to slow progression. In conjunction, they effectively work to equalize a majority of the player base. Again, there will be those in the minority that are the exception, but future tweaks and refining will help to alleviate those who have fallen through the cracks.

 

The end result is far less players will fall through the cracks now than they did pre-5.0. This is why Galactic Command with RNG is essential to BioWare's plan.

[Aowin]

How is having this situation even existing better than simply having it not happen?

 

First of all, there was nothing "RNG" about getting gear before. Nice try. A player putting themselves in a situation where they had to rely on random rolls to win gear was a player that chose to be in that situation. Seeing as I chose not to be in that situation, I find it hard to empathize with the other point of view.

 

If this was an epidemic, there certainly should have been people beating down your door to join the guild you created to right this horrible wrong.

 

Secondly - as you have been doing during the entirety of this thread, you're still confusing CXP with RNG to pretend you have a point.

 

You like CXP? Fine. But it is a separate topic than RNG. When people point out flaws with RNG you strawman around CXP.

 

Defend this statement: "A CXP system with RNG is better than a CXP system without it". You haven't. Not once. Yet the point of this thread is to supposedly justify RNG. Do it.

 

You understand that most of us are replying to you for fun, not because we think there is a shred of sense in a thing you've said. Even so, give it a go.

 

I'm not talking about loot drops pre-5.0 in raids being RNG. I'm talking about getting a group or guild to do raids, to begin with, was RNG. Some folks were lucky and found guilds that could carry them through raids. Others were not so lucky and never had the opportunity. That's the kind of RNG BioWare has no control over and was inevitably worse. At least with the RNG we have now, BioWare can resolve any issues with the system.

 

Again, this is a two-prong system. Galactic Command, or more specifically CXP, is a means of providing inclusiveness. RNG in conjunction with Galactic Command, is a way of slowing progression. You cannot have one without the other as removing RNG would simply increase progression back to ridiculous rates as was the case pre-5.0. BioWare, clearly, wants to slow progression and RNG is an effective means of doing that.

[keimox]

BioWare isn't omnipotent. This was a massive overhaul of gear progression. Like any reasonable development studio, they will use trial and error tactics to gauge results and tweak from there. There was no way BioWare could create the perfect system without first testing the results, getting metrics, and getting feedback.

 

Finding good guilds or raid groups was RNG. Most guilds in MMOs are terrible. They have no structure. They have no purpose. They are glorified chat rooms and nothing else. The actual quality guilds are few and far between and aren't always easy to get into.

 

I ran a top tier PvP guild for years and we didn't just invite anyone into the group. We first had to test them and they also had to go through a rigorous application process in order for us to determine whether the player was a good fit or not. Most players generally are not, thus when the best guilds are so exclusive you create a scenario where many players simply don't have the same opportunities for progression.

 

Thats not RNG. That is how every competitive FPS clan, prog raid team etc. works. Like every even semi-pro sports team works. They have trials or look for a certain person to be in their team. If one doesn't want to work towards it they don't get that spot.

Some guilds are glorified chat rooms as you say but those guilds just want to be that way. Just for social aspect. Others that come from bit more competitive background can find those teams that suit for them.

[keimox]

I'm not talking about loot drops pre-5.0 in raids being RNG. I'm talking about getting a group or guild to do raids, to begin with, was RNG. Some folks were lucky and found guilds that could carry them through raids. Others were not so lucky and never had the opportunity. That's the kind of RNG BioWare has no control over and was inevitably worse. At least with the RNG we have now, BioWare can resolve any issues with the system.

 

Again, this is a two-prong system. Galactic Command, or more specifically CXP, is a means of providing inclusiveness. RNG in conjunction with Galactic Command, is a way of slowing progression. You cannot have one without the other as removing RNG would simply increase progression back to ridiculous rates as was the case pre-5.0. BioWare, clearly, wants to slow progression and RNG is an effective means of doing that.

 

Only reason to slow down prog is that they don't have plans for the future. How it will go with next expansion. Reset or remove. What they have been doing for past years, removing and replacing it with other system seems more likely.

[DarthWoad]

RNG is meant to slow progression. In conjunction, they effectively work to equalize a majority of the player base. Again, there will be those in the minority that are the exception, but future tweaks and refining will help to alleviate those who have fallen through the cracks.

 

You're certianly right about it being a slow progression. And why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal?

 

I am still wanting on an answer as to why you think a totally random gearing system that everyone has, makes everyone "equal". It's not equal if one person is luckier than another. There's no skill with this RNG.

 

Why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal? We should be encouraging diversity and celebrating the range of skills and achievements. How is anyone meant to shine if everyone is equal?

Edited December 10, 2016 by DarthWoad

[keimox]

You're certianly right about it being a slow progression. And why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal?

 

I am still wanting on an answer as to why you think a totally random gearing system that everyone has, makes everyone "equal". It's not equal if one person is luckier than another. There's no skill with this RNG.

 

Why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal? We should be encouraging diversity and celebrating the range of skills and achievements. How is anyone meant to shine if everyone is equal?

Shush. We live in era of I want it NOW without any effort and everyone is equal in every aspect.

[DariusCalera]

The end result is far less players will fall through the cracks now than they did pre-5.0. This is why Galactic Command with RNG is essential to BioWare's plan.

 

But you don't know this. It is very possible that more people could end up without the gear than what has occurred in the past.

 

If people fell through the cracks prior to 5.0 then that was because they did not put in the work to get better or to find a guild. There was no bad luck involved, just effort.

 

Remember, BW has already tried the rng box thing and it failed, miserably.

[Aowin]

You're certianly right about it being a slow progression. And why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal?

 

I am still wanting on an answer as to why you think a totally random gearing system that everyone has, makes everyone "equal". It's not equal if one person is luckier than another. There's no skill with this RNG.

 

Why are you so obsessed with making everyone equal? We should be encouraging diversity and celebrating the range of skills and achievements. How is anyone meant to shine if everyone is equal?

 

Whoever said I wanted everybody to be equal? I actually don't care one way or the other. Personally, I prefer systems where I can obtain achievements others can't, such as when I was crowned Emperor of Cyrodiil in ESO. I love systems like that, personally. I'm just merely explaining what is the rational understanding of BioWare's actions. They want the player base to be more equal and for everybody to have a similar chance at quality gear. BioWare is looking to revitalize and reinvigorate the population of this game considering its long-time veterans have not been a reliable source of revenue.

 

RNG is meant to slow progression. GC is meant to provide inclusiveness. These two systems in unison provide a more equal playing field. As I said before, there will be a small portion who fall through the cracks due to the implications of RNG, but most will not.

[Aowin]

But you don't know this. It is very possible that more people could end up without the gear than what has occurred in the past.

 

If people fell through the cracks prior to 5.0 then that was because they did not put in the work to get better or to find a guild. There was no bad luck involved, just effort.

 

Remember, BW has already tried the rng box thing and it failed, miserably.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. There has always been RNG in this game, and most players have never complained. Battlemaster Bags, were exceptionally horrible for the obvious reason you had a 75% chance of never getting a battlemaster commendation, which you needed several for a gear piece. With Galactic Command, you always have a 100% chance of getting gear. It just so happens you don't have control over what quality that gear is.

 

A lot continue to try and make these ridiculous generalizations about how "BioWare has done this before." No, they haven't. These two situations aren't even remotely similar. I would know just how utterly terrible battlemaster bags were as I was one of the first battlemasters on my server at launch. I absolutely hated that system, but Galactic Command does not even come anywhere as close as being that unfair.

[keimox]

considering its long-time veterans have not been a reliable source of revenue.

 

 

One could argue that they bought most of hypercrates, CM stuff and stayed subbed for longest continuous times.

Not those storymode, solo players.

Edited December 10, 2016 by keimox
adding

[Aowin]

One could argue that they bought most of hypercrates, CM stuff and stayed subbed for longest continuous times.

Not those storymode, solo players.

 

You could make that argument, but it wouldn't hold for very long without corroborating evidence. What is clear is that the community had been in constant decline (even with ROTHC and SOR) until 4.0 released, and KOTFE provided a boost in the game's population.

 

I also seriously doubt the "storymode [sic] , solo players" were the ones responsible for the drastic decline as many of them likely stayed subscribed for the monthly chapters and bonus chapter. If anyone was responsible for unsubscribing, it was those folks who only care about group content and nothing else.

[DarthWoad]

Whoever said I wanted everybody to be equal? I actually don't care one way or the other. Personally, I prefer systems where I can obtain achievements others can't, such as when I was crowned Emperor of Cyrodiil in ESO. I love systems like that, personally. I'm just merely explaining what is the rational understanding of BioWare's actions. They want the player base to be more equal and for everybody to have a similar chance at quality gear. BioWare is looking to revitalize and reinvigorate the population of this game considering its long-time veterans have not been a reliable source of revenue.

 

Well, you said

BioWare has equalized the playing field and made a system that is fair to all. Whether you are a veteran of five years or you just started playing today, everybody has the same opportunity to achieve gear. .

 

It was equal and fair in the first place, because those who spent more time playing got better rewards (as it should be). You keep putting across the point that Bioware have made it equal and fair, when in reality it's not. Why is it fair that a 5 year veteran should suffer the odds of an RNG lock box and a newcomer can get the gear quicker if they have more luck? That is not fair in any way.

 

I have been crowned Emperor many times on ESO and the thing is I don't spend a lot of time doing that. I use my brain and think of different ways to approach the situation. But can you imagine if a random person was selected to be Emperor? You certainly wouldn't like that would you? Especially if they're brand new to the game. That wouldn't be fair at all.

 

You can try as hard as you want to explain, but the majority of people here disagree with you and with Bioware actions. Not everything they do is automatically good and correct. They made a huge mistake with this and we can only hope they change it.

 

RNG is meant to slow progression. GC is meant to provide inclusiveness. These two systems in unison provide a more equal playing field. As I said before, there will be a small portion who fall through the cracks due to the implications of RNG, but most will not.

 

Wrong. RNG is meant to slow progression....more for others....less for some. Which means it's not equal. If however, each command rank had a piece of gear, such as a chest piece at rank 30, then that would be fair, because there is a goal there.

 

The interface is good, ill give you that. it's easier to access features of the game now, but that still could have been done without the RNG stuff.

 

And actually, long time veterans are a reliable source because the longer somoene plays the more likely they wlil stick to the game. It shouldn't be about bringing in new waves of players, it should be about keeping people playing.

Edited December 10, 2016 by DarthWoad

[keimox]

You could make that argument, but it wouldn't hold for very long without corroborating evidence. What is clear is that the community had been in constant decline (even with ROTHC and SOR) until 4.0 released, and KOTFE provided a boost in the game's population.

 

I also seriously doubt the "storymode [sic] , solo players" were the ones responsible for the drastic decline as many of them likely stayed subscribed for the monthly chapters and bonus chapter. If anyone was responsible for unsubscribing, it was those folks who only care about group content and nothing else.

 

Ultimately responsibility for decline is on the studio not the players. If studio hypes this and that and fail to meet the hype players leave. People also argue here that majority of this and that because vocal minority this and that. No one actually knows how dissatisfied player base is for something or how much they like it.

As it is said many times over. Only minority of player base writes on forums.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I'm not talking about loot drops pre-5.0 in raids being RNG. I'm talking about getting a group or guild to do raids, to begin with, was RNG. Some folks were lucky and found guilds that could carry them through raids. Others were not so lucky and never had the opportunity. That's the kind of RNG BioWare has no control over and was inevitably worse. At least with the RNG we have now, BioWare can resolve any issues with the system.

OMGeeeeeee that's SOOOOO precious. finding a group / guild is now RNG :D:D wow, delusions becoming bigger and bigger. if someone can't join a guild - that's not RNG that's them not being social enough or not caring enough, or not trying hard enough. that has NOTHING to do with random number generation :D:D

 

Again, this is a two-prong system. Galactic Command, or more specifically CXP, is a means of providing inclusiveness. RNG in conjunction with Galactic Command, is a way of slowing progression. You cannot have one without the other as removing RNG would simply increase progression back to ridiculous rates as was the case pre-5.0. BioWare, clearly, wants to slow progression and RNG is an effective means of doing that.

and i tell you AGAIN, it's not gonna be more inclusive just because it CAN be. people aren't gonna be more receptive to taking newbies to ops just cause drops ain't there anymore. if nothing else, no one except newbies will care enough.

of course there also flashpoints, uprisings, GSF, pvp, etc. but that content has been there before. and groupfinder became more inclusive when BW did away with the trinity requirement, which in some cases seems like a big mistake. because when u take 4 dps, 1-2 of which are newbies, you get what? ... bingo! A CLUSTERF*CK:eek::eek: no? u don't get why? because with lvl 65 tokens being available, there is little to no way to teach n00bs how to mechanic properly. that's why hard mode flashpoints rarely pop, because no one wants to run them (cause no gear, desire, nothing new, blah blah blah) and ofc due to lack of tanks and healers. because bigger % of those casuals and noobs tend to be DPS, which unbalances % of tank / healer VS DPS. which means it gets harder for groups to pop that need the trinity composition and harder to put raids together, cause more often than not you won't be able to find enough tanks or enough healers. us vets come across this problem too. so i'm sure it'd be a real killer for new raid teams as well.

Now Galactic Command can stay....... hell even CXP can stay.... :eek: so long as they even out rewards for all activities across the board. and NOT by nerfing pvp or adds in ops lol.

 

BUT RNG PLZ G.T.F.O.:D:D

Edited December 10, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[DariusCalera]

You are comparing apples to oranges. There has always been RNG in this game, and most players have never complained. Battlemaster Bags, were exceptionally horrible for the obvious reason you had a 75% chance of never getting a battlemaster commendation, which you needed several for a gear piece. With Galactic Command, you always have a 100% chance of getting gear. It just so happens you don't have control over what quality that gear is.

 

Now you're the one who is comparing apples to oranges.

 

On one hand you have a 75% chance of not getting a BM commendation and on the other, from the looks of things, an even worse chance of getting useful gear from the CG boxes. Both are idiotic and in both you have more of a chance to get more useless stuff than useful.

 

The RNG that existed before was manageable because people could help one another in lessening its effects. If you ran a PUG you accepted the fact that you might not get anything. Though some did run with the loot rule of "one purple item each". So while you may not get your set piece with the pug, you would at least get something.

 

If you ran with a set, or semi set, guild team you were pretty much guaranteed a full set of armor eventually.

 

The more group content you ran, especially with a guild, the less the RNG effected you. With the current system, it doesn't matter if you do group content or not your RNG is your RNG and no one is going to be able to help you with it if your luck is terrible.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You could make that argument, but it wouldn't hold for very long without corroborating evidence. What is clear is that the community had been in constant decline (even with ROTHC and SOR) until 4.0 released, and KOTFE provided a boost in the game's population.

 

I also seriously doubt the "storymode [sic] , solo players" were the ones responsible for the drastic decline as many of them likely stayed subscribed for the monthly chapters and bonus chapter. If anyone was responsible for unsubscribing, it was those folks who only care about group content and nothing else.

NOPE, THAT WOULD BE THE FAULT OF BW CRAZINESS. it's the decisions made by EAware that make people leave. you said yourself - if people don't like it they can leave. and that's what some did. When there was no new ops for 2 years, some guilds left to WoW or FFonline, when they removed 224 tokens from nim ops and put them into highlighted HM more left, and when 5.0 happened, RNG haters are gonna leave unless BW acts fast enough to make this Sh*tshow better. I'm not saying that they remove the crate RNG, it's clear that it's here to stay, but they need to FIX it or even more people will leave. and i'm sorry, but what exactly is there to care about when people have finished all the story lines, romanced all their companions, lvld up all the alts they could. what is there after that except END GAME content? you know, the pvp, the raids.... those neglected things. It makes us feel left out. they make these things that encourage people to play vanilla content and that's okay. but they have to realize they make people feel left out by doing only that. so how the f*ck can you blame players for leaving with treatment like this?

[DarthWoad]

Now you're the one who is comparing apples to oranges.

 

On one hand you have a 75% chance of not getting a BM commendation and on the other, from the looks of things, an even worse chance of getting useful gear from the CG boxes. Both are idiotic and in both you have more of a chance to get more useless stuff than useful.

 

The RNG that existed before was manageable because people could help one another in lessening its effects. If you ran a PUG you accepted the fact that you might not get anything. Though some did run with the loot rule of "one purple item each". So while you may not get your set piece with the pug, you would at least get something.

 

If you ran with a set, or semi set, guild team you were pretty much guaranteed a full set of armor eventually.

 

The more group content you ran, especially with a guild, the less the RNG effected you. With the current system, it doesn't matter if you do group content or not your RNG is your RNG and no one is going to be able to help you with it if your luck is terrible.

 

Please Aowin, read this and then tell me you still think the current system is better than the older system. Just please.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Please Aowin, read this and then tell me you still think the current system is better than the older system. Just please.

... u think that's gonna help hon? :D we're going in circles. a nice huge 80 pages long circle. i'm still here cause i don't want him to have the last word and get the better of us. how bout u?

P.S.: him understanding what we're telling him would be a nice result too.... but hei.... i feel pigs will fly sooner >.>:eek:

[MeNaCe-NZ]

... u think that's gonna help hon? :D we're going in circles. a nice huge 80 pages long circle. i'm still here cause i don't want him to have the last word and get the better of us. how bout u?

P.S.: him understanding what we're telling him would be a nice result too.... but hei.... i feel pigs will fly sooner >.>:eek:

 

You do realise that's probably what he wants right? Referral clicks = CC and looking at the thread he creates he goes completely out of his way to ensure they stay on main page and thus first post with link at the bottom.

 

At first I thought I was being paranoid but if you go over how often he contradicts himself and the utterly ludicrous points he makes at time it seems less paranoid and more likely to be actually the case. That or he's just one of those annoying people who just argue for the sake of arguing regardless of how wrong they are.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You do realise that's probably what he wants right? Referral clicks = CC and looking at the thread he creates he goes completely out of his way to ensure they stay on main page and thus first post with link at the bottom.

 

At first I thought I was being paranoid but if you go over how often he contradicts himself and the utterly ludicrous points he makes at time it seems less paranoid and more likely to be actually the case. That or he's just one of those annoying people who just argue for the sake of arguing regardless of how wrong they are.

u know that might be it, but with the whole GC and no new stuff to do in game outside of chapters that don't entice you to do them more than once, i've been having fun forum pvping lol. wanna make a new thread and start over and hope we don't attract too many trolls? :D:D

[MeNaCe-NZ]

u know that might be it, but with the whole GC and no new stuff to do in game outside of chapters that don't entice you to do them more than once, i've been having fun forum pvping lol. wanna make a new thread and start over and hope we don't attract too many trolls? :D:D

 

I actually wanted to earn CXP doing the chapters thinking it would make them a bit more fun and knowing I'll only do them once ( so doing veteran right off ) so I go to the trouble of getting to 70 first and jump in just to learn I only seem to get CXP from completing each chapter and not even enough to gain a level. Didn't think this system could have disappointed me more then I discover that - you would think they would have had minor CXP rewards for completing objectives etc. or extra boosts for a first run but no ... lazy design is lazy design.

[BoySaber]

The title of the thread still does not have its content in the topic, aka the explanation. It's all quickly directed to Galactic Command instead of RNG itself. I am still curious to see and understand the explanation of it oh why is it good for players but my previously post was ignored. We did get explanation of why is it good for EaWare but all of us already knew that without reading this thread.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

The title of the thread still does not have its content in the topic, aka the explanation. It's all quickly directed to Galactic Command instead of RNG itself. I am still curious to see and understand the explanation of it oh why is it good for players but my previously post was ignored. We did get explanation of why is it good for EaWare but all of us already knew that without reading this thread.

 

why is RNG good??:eek: ---- it's NOT:D:D:D

and yeah, we've been trying to make mister OP to explain just why exactly is rng good, but he deflects / derails / ignores our attempts with great tenacity. it almost seems like in his head GC === RNG:D:D:eek::eek: