Galactic Conflict - Match 1 - Round 1 - NullForce Collective VS Mando’ad Vod’saad

[Silenceo]

Jamming has no effect on missile targeting systems, it only effects standard comms. As my comms are not standard anyway (they utilize yammosk telepathy), it won't even effect that. Your just wasting power blasting noise into space. You are correct in that I'll be using my own jammers of course, though i don't have too much of that present, it will only effect ships that venture too close.

 

Trying to not get into the debates myself, but I feel I must point some things out. Missiles and torpedo's, unless they are dumb-fire, are affected by jamming. Granted that it is not dedicated ordinance jamming, so the effect will not be concentrated.

 

As for militaristic state and YAIC, that is difficult to quantify since most of their effect in this battle is qualitative in nature (ex. there is no hard numbers for the enhanced communication and coordination provided by the system). It will, at the very least, reduce chaos considerably within my own ranks, which in a battle this size, is very helpful.

 

Mass-Telepathy has its own flaws, even more so when it wasn't something that they originally invented or were raised with. It does prevent jamming, but that does not mean there will not be its on set of issues. As for the YAIC perk, I am unsure how well campaign or skirmish skills will play in this current scenario.

 

Surprising Foresight: Years of action have turned him into an exceptionally skilled tactician often predicting the moves of opponents before they actually make them (diminishing returns after his R+1).

 

This on top of the tactician himself will be a big part of the battle.

 

Get to debating already people!

Edited December 21, 2016 by Silenceo

[Jarons]

Am still waiting for dutch plan before I put my two cents in .Also I don't know what Dutch fleet over the planet consist of.

[MadDutchman]

First things first... The mines.

 

After that, we can get into the meat of it.

 

for those who don't know, empion mine

 

My points on these:

As this is the first time they've come into play, the MV probably doesn't even know to look out for them. Also as they are designed to be used to intercept vessels in hyperspace, they aren't going to be easy to detect from hyperspace, especially considering their size. Even on the off chance that they are detected, there is no way they'd be identified as mines capable of pulling ships out of hyperspace, and as such would probably just stay in hyperspace through the field (which would be sensible for normal mine fields).

 

On the off chance that they do detect them, identify them and drop out early, they will now be much further out in the system, and have to spend time to clear the mines out of their way before they can proceed. This delay will effectively remove any surprise they had, as well as give me more time to prepare my defense.

 

 

 

Now for the effects of detonation. These mines wouldn't have much of an effect on large capital ships (it might weaken their shields a bit), they would however be extremely effective against fighters/bombers, corvettes and maybe even small frigates if their shields aren't up to snuff.

 

This means any fighters/bombers not in their hangers will be fried (taking hours to only partially fix them in the source material).

ASRs have pretty tough shields so they could probably do not to badly here, might have some screwed up systems.

Vibres will be totally knocked out. They might be called an assault cruiser, but they are only 100 m long, which is a small corvette (for reference, the corellian corvette (cr90) we all know and love is 150 m), and they don't have the fancy shields of the ASR

Tartans are bigger, will probably be in a similar situation as the ASR, finicky systems but probably still mostly functional.

[MadDutchman]

Am still waiting for dutch plan before I put my two cents in .Also I don't know what Dutch fleet over the planet consist of.

 

it's already posted (I replaced an older post so to have everything in one place). Back on the last page

[MadDutchman]

Trying to not get into the debates myself, but I feel I must point some things out. Missiles and torpedo's, unless they are dumb-fire, are affected by jamming. Granted that it is not dedicated ordinance jamming, so the effect will not be concentrated.

 

based on? All the literature I have found on jammers (unless specifically identified as a sensor jammer, which is an entirely different technology) is comm only.

Edited December 21, 2016 by MadDutchman

[karadron]

for those who don't know, empion mine

 

My points on these:

As this is the first time they've come into play, the MV probably doesn't even know to look out for them. Also as they are designed to be used to intercept vessels in hyperspace, they aren't going to be easy to detect from hyperspace, especially considering their size. Even on the off chance that they are detected, there is no way they'd be identified as mines capable of pulling ships out of hyperspace, and as such would probably just stay in hyperspace through the field (which would be sensible for normal mine fields).

 

On the off chance that they do detect them, identify them and drop out early, they will now be much further out in the system, and have to spend time to clear the mines out of their way before they can proceed. This delay will effectively remove any surprise they had, as well as give me more time to prepare my defense.

 

 

 

Now for the effects of detonation. These mines wouldn't have much of an effect on large capital ships (it might weaken their shields a bit), they would however be extremely effective against fighters/bombers, corvettes and maybe even small frigates if their shields aren't up to snuff.

 

This means any fighters/bombers not in their hangers will be fried (taking hours to only partially fix them in the source material).

ASRs have pretty tough shields so they could probably do not to badly here, might have some screwed up systems.

Vibres will be totally knocked out. They might be called an assault cruiser, but they are only 100 m long, which is a small corvette (for reference, the corellian corvette (cr90) we all know and love is 150 m), and they don't have the fancy shields of the ASR

Tartans are bigger, will probably be in a similar situation as the ASR, finicky systems but probably still mostly functional.

 

I feel like you're over exaggerating the capabilities of these. Given that a single one was not capable of fully knocking out a squad of X-wings. Even then it would depend on approach vector and mine layout to determine just how effective it would be, as well as not revealing who hit the mine just that it went off. I'd like to point out as well that the MV attack isn't coming from a single direction, but rather 3, one of which is already in system.

 

As well I'd like to throw out the very real possibility that my faction does indeed know about the mines, it's not like I haven't been spending time in and near the system. I mean the MV already knows just about everything about the planet and it's defenses.

[MadDutchman]

I feel like you're over exaggerating the capabilities of these. Given that a single one was not capable of fully knocking out a squad of X-wings. Even then it would depend on approach vector and mine layout to determine just how effective it would be, as well as not revealing who hit the mine just that it went off. I'd like to point out as well that the MV attack isn't coming from a single direction, but rather 3, one of which is already in system.

 

As well I'd like to throw out the very real possibility that my faction does indeed know about the mines, it's not like I haven't been spending time in and near the system. I mean the MV already knows just about everything about the planet and it's defenses.

 

Uh, it did knock the squadron out. One of the ships wasn't even salvageable.

EDIT: to be clear, I define "knocked out" as "not immediately ready for battle" Yes they could be fixed, but it would take time. And there isn't 1 of these things, there are 6000

 

Unless I'm much mistaken the bulk of your ships were coming from Mandalore, which means you'd go right through them.

 

If you dropped out of hyperspace early in order to reorient to come from a different direction on the edge of the system, I would have picked that up easily on my sensors

 

As for your knowledge of the defenses, you can't scan through planetary shields, and the station is cloaked. You'll certainly be able to tell it's there, but at the range your ships would have been at, that is about all. So unles you have a different source of knowledge, that about sums it up.

Edited December 22, 2016 by MadDutchman

[karadron]

Uh, it did knock the squadron out. One of the ships wasn't even salvageable.

EDIT: to be clear, I define "knocked out" as "not immediately ready for battle" Yes they could be fixed, but it would take time. And there isn't 1 of these things, there are 6000

 

Unless I'm much mistaken the bulk of your ships were coming from Mandalore, which means you'd go right through them.

 

If you dropped out of hyperspace early in order to reorient to come from a different direction on the edge of the system, I would have picked that up easily on my sensors

 

As for your knowledge of the defenses, you can't scan through planetary shields, and the station is cloaked. You'll certainly be able to tell it's there, but at the range your ships would have been at, that is about all. So unles you have a different source of knowledge, that about sums it up.

 

 

Well I define knocked out as in, completely out, so miss communication. Still though the mines are not behind the planetary shields or cloaked. Which gives more reason to believe that my faction would know about them.

 

Coming from Mandalore doesn't mean they didn't prep multiple jumps or go through deep space. One of the goals is after all surprise.

 

I'm afraid you will find the MV knows all about the NF base.

[MadDutchman]

 

This on top of the tactician himself will be a big part of the battle.

 

 

Can't see it being that big, there is a limit to what a commander can do, especially with so many units. (I mean, my General on Dathomir had no noticeable effect at all...)

Edited December 22, 2016 by MadDutchman

[MadDutchman]

Well I define knocked out as in, completely out, so miss communication. Still though the mines are not behind the planetary shields or cloaked. Which gives more reason to believe that my faction would know about them.

 

Coming from Mandalore doesn't mean they didn't prep multiple jumps or go through deep space. One of the goals is after all surprise.

 

I'm afraid you will find the MV knows all about the NF base.

 

They are brand new, Plotting new hyperspace routes to go around them takes time (which you don't have), and making short jumps through parts of deep space, not only very dangerous, but a fleet that size would light up my long range sensors like a Christmas tree. So even less surprise.

 

There is still the issue of identifying them. Your ships may have seen that I was placing mines, but you have no reason to know what kind of mines. And the corvettes deploying the mines have upgraded sensors, highly unlikely even your stealth ships could get close enough to them to get a detailed scan of them, and even if they did, you wouldn't have the time to analyze it and broadcast that data before your fleet arrived.

[karadron]

They are brand new, Plotting new hyperspace routes to go around them takes time (which you don't have), and making short jumps through parts of deep space, not only very dangerous, but a fleet that size would light up my long range sensors like a Christmas tree. So even less surprise.

 

There is still the issue of identifying them. Your ships may have seen that I was placing mines, but you have no reason to know what kind of mines. And the corvettes deploying the mines have upgraded sensors, highly unlikely even your stealth ships could get close enough to them to get a detailed scan of them, and even if they did, you wouldn't have the time to analyze it and broadcast that data before your fleet arrived.

 

Keep in mind my admiral has used pirate techniques in the past, and they--along with smugglers--are the people most likely to use those types of jumps.

 

Even though they have upgraded sensors you faction still doesn't have the same access (if any at all) to anti-stealth tech, even with so many deployed figuring out what they are (in the sense of mines) wouldn't be that difficult.

 

And then if they were deployed just on T9 (if before detection is perfectly feasible and counterable) then the possibility arises that the MV arrives while they are being deployed. In which case a number of corvettes will be caught very much out of position as well as a number (SIl determined) would not have been activated.

[karadron]

Can't see it being that big, there is a limit to what a commander can do, especially with so many units. (I mean, my General on Dathomir had no noticeable effect at all...)

 

The two situations are significantly different.

[Silenceo]

Can't see it being that big, there is a limit to what a commander can do, especially with so many units. (I mean, my General on Dathomir had no noticeable effect at all...)

 

He did have effect, but not for the majority of that first turn. This is in part due to the commander not being in-system when the conflict would have begun, and that the MV started it that turn with an ambush of sorts. The second turn of the battle and so on will have a more pronounced affect.

[MadDutchman]

Keep in mind my admiral has used pirate techniques in the past, and they--along with smugglers--are the people most likely to use those types of jumps.

 

Even though they have upgraded sensors you faction still doesn't have the same access (if any at all) to anti-stealth tech, even with so many deployed figuring out what they are (in the sense of mines) wouldn't be that difficult.

 

And then if they were deployed just on T9 (if before detection is perfectly feasible and counterable) then the possibility arises that the MV arrives while they are being deployed. In which case a number of corvettes will be caught very much out of position as well as a number (SIl determined) would not have been activated.

 

Thing with pirates and smugglers, they are usually in a single small ship, or maybe a couple small ships. We're talking a massive fleet of capital ships. Kinda hard to miss.

 

Yes it was turn 9, and already planned for that, I have ships that can give early warning of an approaching fleet (I already bugged Sil about that possibility on an earlier turn, same as what your ASRs around Dathomir) and I could easily microjump back to Myrkr in that time frame (these things are modified cr90s, rather good at that kind of thing), especially since I wouldn't need to calculate coordinates, just point and go and let gravity pull them back out (Thrawn's little trick with interdictors in other words).

 

Besides, Mandalore and Myrkr aren't that close.

[karadron]

Thing with pirates and smugglers, they are usually in a single small ship, or maybe a couple small ships. We're talking a massive fleet of capital ships. Kinda hard to miss.

 

Yes it was turn 9, and already planned for that, I have ships that can give early warning of an approaching fleet (I already bugged Sil about that possibility on an earlier turn, same as what your ASRs around Dathomir) and I could easily microjump back to Myrkr in that time frame (these things are modified cr90s, rather good at that kind of thing), especially since I wouldn't need to calculate coordinates, just point and go and let gravity pull them back out (Thrawn's little trick with interdictors in other words).

 

Besides, Mandalore and Myrkr aren't that close.

 

There are also such things as pirate fleets, and smuggler one's too although more infrequent. But even then if sensors are being jammed then it's somewhat unlikely they might get a ping.

 

In that case I postulate that not all the mines will be deployed, 6,000 is an awful lo lay out especially when an unknown attack is being carried out near the same time. Not to mention the possibility that it could yank a random ship out instead of one of mine. (The space station does have a trade exchange).

[MadDutchman]

There are also such things as pirate fleets, and smuggler one's too although more infrequent. But even then if sensors are being jammed then it's somewhat unlikely they might get a ping.

 

In that case I postulate that not all the mines will be deployed, 6,000 is an awful lo lay out especially when an unknown attack is being carried out near the same time. Not to mention the possibility that it could yank a random ship out instead of one of mine. (The space station does have a trade exchange).

 

Pirates fleets aren't going to be anywhere near the size as yours. And last I checked the Vibre is the only ship with a sensor mask.

 

In regards to other ships, as already noted by you, vector matters, and I really doubt I'm getting trade ships from Mandalore.

 

and they were being deployed by 1500 ships. Wouldn't take very long at all.

[karadron]

Pirates fleets aren't going to be anywhere near the size as yours. And last I checked the Vibre is the only ship with a sensor mask.

 

In regards to other ships, as already noted by you, vector matters, and I really doubt I'm getting trade ships from Mandalore.

 

and they were being deployed by 1500 ships. Wouldn't take very long at all.

 

Not Mandalorians, but merchants traveling through Mandalore is a possibility, as is the likelihood of other direction. I mean as long as the MV knows the most likely direction of possible trade, then they could hit from that direction. And I doubt the NF would want to mine their best trade routes.

[MadDutchman]

Not Mandalorians, but merchants traveling through Mandalore is a possibility, as is the likelihood of other direction. I mean as long as the MV knows the most likely direction of possible trade, then they could hit from that direction. And I doubt the NF would want to mine their best trade routes.

 

Based on where the major hyperspace routes are, and considering there is a very public fight going on between us, no, they definitely would not be going through Mandalore.

 

Considering you were jumping to hyperspace around the time I was creating the field, I think going around is highly unlikely. Not to mention would take a LOT longer

[MadDutchman]

Since I think we've exhausted the subject of the mines (or at least, any further debate will just go in circles), lets move on to a different topic: Fighters

 

First up, relevant traits

 

 

Advanced Guidance Systems: Due to the more advanced AI employed by the Collective, the tracking systems on missiles and torpedoes can hit with more accuracy due to their improved ability to sort out targets from junk and ability to avoid such debris.

 

Superior Simulators: The realism and versatility of Collective fighter and bomber simulators boosts the overall effectiveness of Collective pilots, especially with the non-standard maneuvering capabilities of the ships.

 

Hardpoint Identification and Targeting System: All ships are equipped with upgraded sensors and targeting computers allowing for better identification and targeting of sensitive ship systems, especially on ships encountered before.

 

Gravitational Mastery: Studying the technology behind the Vong dovin basals has not only allowed the Collective to replicate them, but gives a power and efficiency bonus to gravity based technologies, especially inertial compensators, allowing dovin basal equipped fighters to more easily use them to perform high G maneuvers without harming the pilots.

 

Cyberphiles: The Collective has a love of all things cybernetic or involves an interface between biology and machinery, and as a result most people in the Collective have some kind of cybernetic implant to enhance their abilities. (indirect, it is what allows for the more advanced cybernetics)

 

 

First up, the Ripper:

This is designed as a dedicated dogfighter (though it can of course be used for other missions). It's job is to get into even the hairiest of messes and wreak devastation with its cluster missiles while using its freakish maneuverability to get on the tail of any ship and pumping it full of laser fire. It achieves this maneuverability without harming the pilot with its more advanced inertial compensators (Grav Master trait) as well as advanced cybernetics that can help regulate blood flow to prevent blackouts. This plus a reflex package and ship sensor integration allows a Ripper pilot to make this ship truly dance.

It has 2 dovin basals instead of shields, which it can use for both defense and maneuvering in ways standard ships can't even dream of.

With its maneuverability, the Ripper is also well suited for using its dovin basals to strip shields from other fighters, a trick that the MV have not seen yet and will come as an unpleasant surprise

 

The other is the K-DB Wing:

This is pretty much exactly what it sounds like, a K-Wing with dovin basals. Equipped with 3 standard dovin basals and 1 larger one in place of the engine on top of the standard K-Wing, this ship can take a beating, and can perform much more aggressive maneuvers than a standard bomber, allowing it to dodge heavier weapons that would normally be a greater threat to a heavy bomber. The extra large dovin basal can even be used as boost should some extra speed be required.

[CheaterLL]

based on? All the literature I have found on jammers (unless specifically identified as a sensor jammer, which is an entirely different technology) is comm only.

 

All depends on the type of guided missile.

• Remote-controlled missiles are affected by normal communications jammers if they are jamming the correct frequency (would be easiest to just jam everything except the frequencies they use themselves)
  
• Self-Guiding missiles (such as heatseeker or radar-guided) would need to be jammed with specific jammers for the technology they use
  
• Targeted missiles (such as GPS-based) are very hard to jam, especially if they can compensate for signal loss by calculating relative to their last known position. You'd have the best chance if you know the technology and are able to send false signals to trick the missile onto a different course or a premature detonation
  

[Jarons]

Ship to ship combat I personally give K fleet the advantage.Unless his boarders can actually get on board the station I don't think his fleet can last that long against fire power from both the NF fleet and Battle stations. So as it is right now am waiting for part B or more arguments for how K will take the station.

[MadDutchman]

All depends on the type of guided missile.

• Remote-controlled missiles are affected by normal communications jammers if they are jamming the correct frequency (would be easiest to just jam everything except the frequencies they use themselves)
  
• Self-Guiding missiles (such as heatseeker or radar-guided) would need to be jammed with specific jammers for the technology they use
  
• Targeted missiles (such as GPS-based) are very hard to jam, especially if they can compensate for signal loss by calculating relative to their last known position. You'd have the best chance if you know the technology and are able to send false signals to trick the missile onto a different course or a premature detonation
  

 

This is pretty much my assumptions as well. Most missiles I know of in the SW universe are self-guided, once it gets a target lock, it goes on it's own.

[MadDutchman]

Ship to ship combat I personally give K fleet the advantage.Unless his boarders can actually get on board the station I don't think his fleet can last that long against fire power from both the NF fleet and Battle stations. So as it is right now am waiting for part B or more arguments for how K will take the station.

 

Agreed on the ship to ship assessment. Singularities can tank a lot of firepower but his fleet is much bigger, to move against it directly would be rather foolish, and why I'm taking the more defensive approach, making use of the battle station, planetary ion cannons and hypervelocity guns.

 

 

K already tried once to board a group of my stealth ships over Mandalore (was forced to self destruct them to prevent the tech from falling into his hands), so the NF navy is rather cautious now about boarders, and hence why Vibres take such a priority in my battle plan. For him to get boarders onto the battle station (let alone enough to actually take it) will be an uphill battle indeed.

[MadDutchman]

Another perk I forgot to post earlier that can come into play

 

 

Signal Analyzers: Due to their love of all things technical, members of the Collective as a whole understand communication systems better than most, allowing Collective forces to more easily slice into and monitor remote comm systems.

 

 

The application of this is that I can monitor MV comm traffic, and even listen in on some of it. This can give me some early warning of orders being delivered before ships actually start carrying them out.

 

More importantly though is it can allow me to trace back comm traffic to the source of the orders (in other words, Admiral Carrack and probably the flagship. I don't even need to decrypt it, just follow the signal). It would a simple matter then to focus fire on that ship, destroying it quite quickly.

[Jarons]

Agreed on the ship to ship assessment. Singularities can tank a lot of firepower but his fleet is much bigger, to move against it directly would be rather foolish, and why I'm taking the more defensive approach, making use of the battle station, planetary ion cannons and hypervelocity guns.

 

 

K already tried once to board a group of my stealth ships over Mandalore (was forced to self destruct them to prevent the tech from falling into his hands), so the NF navy is rather cautious now about boarders, and hence why Vibres take such a priority in my battle plan. For him to get boarders onto the battle station (let alone enough to actually take it) will be an uphill battle indeed.

Well K has shown he is able to board your ships and stealth ships at that.With the current instance it will be easier for him to board the battle station, I say he should try to capture it but his best bet would be to just destroy it.

 

K has a good plan to deal with your planetary defense but truthful if I was him after I take down the planetary shield I would just land a Base Delta Zero on your planet.Make things so much easier.