Your fans and subscribers would like answers.

[Eukof]

So, I've read through most of the first few pages of the general forums and once again, post patch flaming is full bore much like 4.0. Now granted, most of the content released in 4.0 gave opportunity to the more casual players (even us veterans didn't mind you giving them a break) you've basically all but shunted everything said by your community for a long time now. In live streams you boys have done a fine job at dodging the hard questions promising to pull something greater from your ever emptying Pandora's box of bad tricks. I personally like the part where Musco pulled no useable items out of 3 boxes at command rank 91 (we all laughed with you, and then died a little inside). But here's where the brass tacks kind of come down, we realize you're busy, we realize you have families, but this is your child, you've reengineered a gear system (that SWTOR admitted did not work in 1.0) and now have a lot of pretty angry people who play this game pretty seriously. So my question to you, the good developers who have earned our trust, are you willing to talk about some of the things that maybe aren't going so well. Please keep in mind, between your staff you more than likely have centuries worth of MMO programming and gaming under your belts, we... your public... have millennia and all we want is some simple recognition and answers.

 

We are all willing to help make this a better game, and all of us have some great ideas how to make it that way, so why not sit down and have an open board with your fans before the last hoorah. We are willing, are you?

 

Up or reply to this post if you would like to see the Devs have an open talk about what's going on.

[Beakertanks]

Sadly I doubt we will get any.

[Parane]

Why do you think the developers are, in any way, obliged to have an open discussion with people on the forum when all they do is moan and whine? I mean, have you looked at the recent posted topics? People are acting like someone stole their Christmas candy and replaced it with coal.

 

If I were a developer, I'd rather ask people who were actually playing the game, like right now, instead of all those who sit and constantly cry on the forum about every single little detail they find fault with.

[Lithdox]

Why do you think the developers are, in any way, obliged to have an open discussion with people on the forum when all they do is moan and whine? I mean, have you looked at the recent posted topics? People are acting like someone stole their Christmas candy and replaced it with coal.

 

If I were a developer, I'd rather ask people who were actually playing the game, like right now, instead of all those who sit and constantly cry on the forum about every single little detail they find fault with.

 

Triggered.

[Kcin_Trebla]

Why do you think the developers are, in any way, obliged to have an open discussion with people on the forum ... ?

 

Because I pay for it?

[americanaussie]

I got a 230 orange lightsaber in my first box. And boots albeit green 230, but better than my artifact 220 boots in my second box.

[Parane]

Because I pay for it?

 

You pay for the developers to talk to you?

 

Really?

 

Must be a recent add-on to the subscription I've never seen before.

[Parane]

Triggered.

 

[AscendingSky]

You pay for the developers to talk to you?

 

Really?

 

Must be a recent add-on to the subscription I've never seen before.

 

Oh, EAWare white knights, how you amuse me so...

 

Whenever people buy a product or service from a company, and the company in question does something to screw those customers over, customers have the right to complain and a fair expectation of receiving a response rather than their concerns/complaints being ignored en masse. Why? Because it's a GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE for the company to try to keep its customers reasonably happy so that they will keep giving the company their money! This is Customer Service 101, for crying out loud.

Edited December 1, 2016 by AscendingSky

[Parane]

Oh, EAWare white knights, how you amuse me so...

People who put meme labels on others without knowing them saddens me, however. Why am I "triggered" and a "white knight" just because I don't whine and moan on the forum every second of the day? Am I not allowed to enjoy the game for what it is? Are tired memes really the best arguments you guys can come up with?

 

How about using sound arguments like a logical human being instead or is that too difficult these days?

 

I suppose in the age of the meme, it's easier to throw a one-liner and call yourself a winner. It's easier to berate people who don't share your opinion, because it's too difficult to actually have a clear point and argue for it. No, I'm not a "fanboi" nor am I a "white knight". I suppose I've just seen players throw temper tantrums on a game's official forum too many times by now to be surprised.

 

Because it's a GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE for the company to try to keep its customers reasonably happy so that they will keep giving the company their money! This is Customer Service 101, for crying out loud.

All right. So explain to me how you've been "screwed over". Explain to me why you're not "reasonably happy" and why you, specifically, should be more reasonably happy with the game than me.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Parane

[Kcin_Trebla]

You pay for the developers to talk to you?

 

Really?

 

Must be a recent add-on to the subscription I've never seen before.

 

Having the option of a constructive confrontation with Devs in the forums is actually part of the "Quality Control" phase of a product's market life.

So yes, as long as I pay for the product I expect the Producers will care about my and any other feedback.

Or I guess it is better I should say "should expect" as it seems the world rules aren't anymore those founded on honest work.

[Firolas]

All right. So explain to me how you've been "screwed over". Explain to me why you're not "reasonably happy" and why you, specifically, should be more reasonably happy with the game than me.

 

Are you saying you are happy with the current gearing system?

[Parane]

Are you saying you are happy with the current gearing system?

 

I'm not saying anything. I asked why this typical post-patch outrage is "screwing over their customers". Is the current gearing system actually "screwing over customers" then?

[Firolas]

I'm not saying anything. I asked why this typical post-patch outrage is "screwing over their customers". Is the current gearing system actually "screwing over customers" then?

 

Why you not saying anything?

Are you happy or not happy with the current RNG gearing system?

 

I think the system sucks like many others have said but curious to what your thoughts are on it.

[AscendingSky]

I suppose in the age of the meme, it's easier to throw a one-liner and call yourself a winner. It's easier to berate people who don't share your opinion, because it's too difficult to actually have a clear point and argue for it. No, I'm not a "fanboi" nor am I a "white knight". I suppose I've just seen players throw temper tantrums on a game's official forum too many times by now to be surprised.

 

Take a look in the mirror there before you post again, friend. You're the one characterizing paying customers voicing their concerns and complaints on a public forum specifically provided for customer feedback as 'whiners' who don't play the game but just post on forums (factually untrue on the face of it), and calling their clearly aired grievances devoid of threats or profanity 'temper tantrums'. You're the one who hasn't voiced any actual clear point on the issue, but instead denigrated the people making their own points with the snide aside of "Why do you think you even deserve an answer?"

 

You are doing exactly what you are trying (and failing) to call others out for. Since you've now degenerated into personal insults towards my intelligence (based solely on my holding an opinion on a video game different than yours), our conversation is over. Ta ta.

[Parane]

Having the option of a constructive confrontation with Devs in the forums is actually part of the "Quality Control" phase of a product's market life.

 

A confrontation is, by definition, not going to be constructive. I assume you meant something different. Regardless, I doubt the developers have time to chat with us on the forum at this time. I like when developers talk to their players, but I can't see them taking all our opinions into account when they have their own roadmap and post-patch fixing.

 

I also know from experience that this post-patch outrage won't be calmed by a developer explaining something. On the contrary, it usually serves to create more outrage and more questions.

 

So yes, as long as I pay for the product I expect the Producers will care about my and any other feedback.

I'm sorry, but you obviously have no clue about game development.

[Firolas]

A confrontation is, by definition, not going to be constructive. I assume you meant something different. Regardless, I doubt the developers have time to chat with us on the forum at this time. I like when developers talk to their players, but I can't see them taking all our opinions into account when they have their own roadmap and post-patch fixing.

 

I also know from experience that this post-patch outrage won't be calmed by a developer explaining something. On the contrary, it usually serves to create more outrage and more questions.

 

 

I'm sorry, but you obviously have no clue about game development.

 

Why you not saying anything?

Are you happy or not happy with the current RNG gearing system?

[Parane]

You're the one who hasn't voiced any actual clear point on the issue, but instead denigrated the people making their own points with the snide aside of "Why do you think you even deserve an answer?"

When you have people calling the developers "idiots" and claiming the new patch is "crap", but don't actually specify then, yes, I will judge them as whiners. Sorry, but that's what they are.

 

And by sitting on the forum spouting negativity, they are obviously not playing the game so I'm not sure why you'd think I'm wrong about that. I'm not the one calling others "triggered" and "white knights" just because they happen to have a different opinion.

 

I'm not sure why my opinion on the patch is so important anyway. I'm one voice among thousands. Even if I didn't like some of the changes, I would certainly not call them "crap" and I would never namecall the developers. I never asked anyone why they thought they'd "deserve an answer". Read what I wrote instead of making up fallacies to suit your argument.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Parane

[Parane]

Are you happy or not happy with the current RNG gearing system?

 

I don't think the answer is that black or white. I'd say I'm disappointed the developers couldn't come up with something more creative than that.

 

RNG is, for the most part, unfair. Especially in an MMO setting.

[Lithdox]

Take a look in the mirror there before you post again, friend. You're the one characterizing paying customers voicing their concerns and complaints on a public forum specifically provided for customer feedback as 'whiners' who don't play the game but just post on forums (factually untrue on the face of it), and calling their clearly aired grievances devoid of threats or profanity 'temper tantrums'. You're the one who hasn't voiced any actual clear point on the issue, but instead denigrated the people making their own points with the snide aside of "Why do you think you even deserve an answer?"

 

You are doing exactly what you are trying (and failing) to call others out for. Since you've now degenerated into personal insults towards my intelligence (based solely on my holding an opinion on a video game different than yours), our conversation is over. Ta ta.

 

Dammnnnn.

[Sareeph]

Take a look in the mirror there before you post again, friend. You're the one characterizing paying customers voicing their concerns and complaints on a public forum specifically provided for customer feedback as 'whiners' who don't play the game but just post on forums (factually untrue on the face of it), and calling their clearly aired grievances devoid of threats or profanity 'temper tantrums'. You're the one who hasn't voiced any actual clear point on the issue, but instead denigrated the people making their own points with the snide aside of "Why do you think you even deserve an answer?"

 

You are doing exactly what you are trying (and failing) to call others out for. Since you've now degenerated into personal insults towards my intelligence (based solely on my holding an opinion on a video game different than yours), our conversation is over. Ta ta.

 

Actually, I took his post as saying <why do people think they have the right to have an open board (real time debate was implied here from original poster) discussion with the devs to redesign the game into something they feel suits their needs/desires?>. It's one thing to post concerns in a thread designed for feedback but quite another to imply that the devs are not interested in making the game better if they don't agree to such a discussion. If it's White Knight to think it absurd that someone feels they have the right to demand such things then there are many people out there that will amuse you.

[americanaussie]

I've received a new piece of usuable armor with each crate I've opened. Maybe it's just luck, but I don't think there's a huge problem here. I should add I was 216-220 geared prior to KOTET.

[LogicalPremise]

Why do you think the developers are, in any way, obliged to have an open discussion with people on the forum when all they do is moan and whine? I mean, have you looked at the recent posted topics? People are acting like someone stole their Christmas candy and replaced it with coal.

 

If I were a developer, I'd rather ask people who were actually playing the game, like right now, instead of all those who sit and constantly cry on the forum about every single little detail they find fault with.

 

Has it ever occurred to you that your perspective is completely, utterly, totally and absolutely wrong?

 

Here are the facts:

 

- A lot of people on the forums have been unhappy for a while. Everyone who posts is a subscriber, hence a customer

- When you have customer complaints you obviously have to triage based on 'is this valid' and 'how much will it cost to address issue x' vs the budge you have

- Most of the people who were here at launch and complaining the game wasn't WOW in space are gone.

- Most of the people who were saying (insert game here) would kill SWTOR are also gone.

- Most of the people who post now are PLAYING THE GAME, unless you're actually stating there are people willing to pay $$$ to whine about games they don't play, in which case you aren't even lucid and we can all ignore you.

- Many issues that have been outstanding for years still aren't fixed.

- NOT A SINGLE ISSUE that has been fixed was done without literally YEARS of thousands of people complaining.

- Positive feedback has only resulted in features being removed or nerfed for no reason.

- Bioware has continued to repeat the line that they are responsive to the customer.

- Bioware has a very poor track record of actually being repsonsive to the customer.

 

Perhaps you think the point of the forums is merely to discuss the game. I have news for you. What you think other subscribers should or should not post doesn't matter to anyone, certainly not to Bioware.

 

5.0 has a lot of issues people have problems with. We can either push that out into the open and hope Bioware takes note, or we can pretend there are no problems and KEEP LOSING SUBS until the game is no longer profitable.

 

Some of us already watched this sort of death spiral with SWG and the NGE and really, really would not like to repeat that again, especially since we're still playing because we LIKE the game.

 

Bottom line: Unless you are going to pay my sub you don't get to decide what I can or cannot say, or if I'm 'whining'. Don't like the topics? DON'T READ THEM. GO PLAY THE GAME.

[Beakertanks]

Has it ever occurred to you that your perspective is completely, utterly, totally and absolutely wrong?

 

Here are the facts:

 

- A lot of people on the forums have been unhappy for a while. Everyone who posts is a subscriber, hence a customer

- When you have customer complaints you obviously have to triage based on 'is this valid' and 'how much will it cost to address issue x' vs the budge you have

- Most of the people who were here at launch and complaining the game wasn't WOW in space are gone.

- Most of the people who were saying (insert game here) would kill SWTOR are also gone.

- Most of the people who post now are PLAYING THE GAME, unless you're actually stating there are people willing to pay $$$ to whine about games they don't play, in which case you aren't even lucid and we can all ignore you.

- Many issues that have been outstanding for years still aren't fixed.

- NOT A SINGLE ISSUE that has been fixed was done without literally YEARS of thousands of people complaining.

- Positive feedback has only resulted in features being removed or nerfed for no reason.

- Bioware has continued to repeat the line that they are responsive to the customer.

- Bioware has a very poor track record of actually being repsonsive to the customer.

 

Perhaps you think the point of the forums is merely to discuss the game. I have news for you. What you think other subscribers should or should not post doesn't matter to anyone, certainly not to Bioware.

 

5.0 has a lot of issues people have problems with. We can either push that out into the open and hope Bioware takes note, or we can pretend there are no problems and KEEP LOSING SUBS until the game is no longer profitable.

 

Some of us already watched this sort of death spiral with SWG and the NGE and really, really would not like to repeat that again, especially since we're still playing because we LIKE the game.

 

Bottom line: Unless you are going to pay my sub you don't get to decide what I can or cannot say, or if I'm 'whining'. Don't like the topics? DON'T READ THEM. GO PLAY THE GAME.

 

^ So much this.

[Beakertanks]

I've received a new piece of usuable armor with each crate I've opened. Maybe it's just luck, but I don't think there's a huge problem here. I should add I was 216-220 geared prior to KOTET.

 

It's not the short term. Heck I got a set piece. It's thinking about next week, next month, and next toon. The current gear system discourages alts (a previous strength of the game) discourages doing alternate trees on existing toons (a previous strength of the game) and discourages certainty in gearing. It was hated pre-1.0 It was steadily changed to more predictable from 1.0 to 4.0 in response to customer feedback. They came up with this idea. Everyone hated it. Told them they hated it, and they did it anyway. I think we all waited to see what it would actually be like. Now that we are experiencing it for real it confirms all of our worst fears. It is a bad move and we are voicing our displeasure. Also ... you are the 1%. Most people are just getting mountains of crap.