Why Lord Scourge, Kira, and Revan must return for KOTET.

[Aowin]

Revan is not needed, leave him alone.

 

 

Kira is debatable, she has formed ties to the Emperor but she doesn't offer much...

 

 

Scourge on the other hand I feel is totally needed back in the story, I think he felt out of place not being in Shadow of Revan. The real mistake was ever making him a companion in the base game, it restricts him quite a bit. He's by far the most powerful companion and is immortal, his character potential is being wasted due to him being a companion before.

 

Scourge has been to Nathema and knows the Emperor well.

 

I disagree. All three are needed.

 

The Revan book makes it abundantly clear why both Revan and Scourge should be there at Valkorion's demise.

 

With regard to Kira, if you maxed out her affection/influence, there is a minor quest after the events of Chapter 3 unfold where the emperor is still a threat to her and her friends. BioWare has not revisited that story due to scrapping future class story chapters and focusing on other things. This is a great opportunity for BioWare to tie up loose ends and resolve the wide open door they created with regard to Kira and Valkorion.

[Alssaran]

You are acting as if I want Revan to be the main character and to be introduced into every single segment of KOTET.

 

No, I am acting as if you are suggesting to bring Revan back into the story. He isn't needed for Valkorion's demise. He and Scourge were needed to help the Jedi Knight defeat the incarnation that they were aware of at the time. Vitiate. They wanted to defeat the Emperor. The Emperor exists in all but name, and for all we know, Valkorion has barely any traits left that could be associated with Vitiate. If for some reason or another (which is most likely a plot hole anyway) Valkorion has turned away from his plan to destroy the galaxy, and he has no interest in being the Emperor of the Sith Empire, then Vitiate is defeated. At least temporarily.

 

It doesn't matter whether you want him to be a main character or stay in a supporting role: Revan should be put to rest. That Revan is not the Revan I came to know. It is not my Revan, thus I don't see him in a nostalgic light. Revan's story ended on Yavin. He became the Prodigal Knight, he defeated the Mandalorians, was the Dark Lord and the redeemed Knight, defeated Malak and left his family. Then he was imprisoned, tortured and freed. He went insane and died after being defeated. He accepted the error of his ways and finally became one with the Force, essentially joining Bastila and his offspring in what could be considered "the afterlife". It's a good ending, and he doesn't need to be recycled again. Not as a main character. Not in a supporting role.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Alssaran

[Keta]

Revan's not coming back. Kira isn't returning nor is Lord Scourge. No one is coming back in fact beyond those we've already seen. Old Ally? Jakkaro or Scorpio. Someone everyone has had somewhere in a story line.

 

What we're seeing is a truncated version of the original story imo. We did part 1, KOTFE. It didn't have the reception or effect they wanted. They refocused a bit on the existing story and we're launching into part 3 soon. Their resources are being directed into multi-player aspects of the game. It'll be a long time before the remaining companions return -- if ever.

 

But that's just my opinion, I've been known to be wrong.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Keta

[casirabit]

Most of the companions have returned. The only ones we still do not have are mainly love interests and the most popular companions. I don't exactly know what Charles' plans are for bringing most of them back. It seems he was going to do it through chapters mainly, but I suppose some could appear in Alliance alerts still.

 

.

 

Most?

 

We got 17 back plus the 1 that was either killed or went on his way = 18

 

Bounty Hunter: 4 / 5

Trooper: 3 / 5 (one only for republican players) + one saying hi but not following again

Agent: 3 / 5

Sith-Warrior: 3 / 5

Jedi-Knight: 2 / 5

Jedi-Consular: just 1 / 5

Sith-Inquisitor: 2 / 5

Smuggler: 2 / 5

 

 

There is still 19 missing so if we got 17 back plus the 1 that didn't rejoin that would mean most are still missing from my math as 18 is lower than 19.

[Aowin]

...

 

It was never about the Sith. Vitiate is a threat to all life in the galaxy, including the Sith. How is Valkorion any different from Vitiate when he already had his sons attack the Republic and Empire? Clearly, Valkorion still has the motivations of wanting to dominate the galaxy with his will. Whether he wants to consume everybody now is debatable, considering he claims he is beyond death, but he is obviously still as much of a threat as he was before.

 

You are more than entitled to your opinion, but the very basis of the Revan character is woven into Valkorion's destruction. Perhaps you don't know this, but the Mandalorian War and Jedi Civil War were caused by Vitiate. He is the one who corrupted Mandalore the Ultimate. In many ways, Vitiate made Revan into the Jedi (and eventually the Sith) he would become. Revan's entire life has been shaped and molded by Vitiate, and it only makes sense to bring closure to the character by having him play a role in Vitiate's end.

 

This isn't about "your Revan" or your lack of nostalgia. This is about concluding a character that was being manipulated by Vitiate before the story of KotOR 1 even began. SOR was not a good ending for Revan. It didn't even remotely make sense and Revan even alluded that his work against the emperor was not done. All I want is for BioWare to do a proper send off to a character whose entire life was defined by Valkorion.

[Aowin]

Most?

 

We got 17 back plus the 1 that was either killed or went on his way = 18

 

Bounty Hunter: 4 / 5

Trooper: 3 / 5 (one only for republican players) + one saying hi but not following again

Agent: 3 / 5

Sith-Warrior: 3 / 5

Jedi-Knight: 2 / 5

Jedi-Consular: just 1 / 5

Sith-Inquisitor: 2 / 5

Smuggler: 2 / 5

 

 

There is still 19 missing so if we got 17 back plus the 1 that didn't rejoin that would mean most are still missing from my math as 18 is lower than 19.

 

If you want to be technical, we have about half of our companions back. Happy? My point is many of them have returned with a lot of them coming back via Alliance alerts. The companions who are left are either likely love interests or the most popular companions everybody enjoys.

 

I'm under the impression all love interests will be featured in chapters (KOTET and beyond) and likely not in Alliance alerts. We don't know how many companions will return with KOTET, but I'd wager we are at least getting two class companions and then new companions via the story. We may have a few alliance alerts as well for non-LI companions.

 

A lot is going to depend on the reception of KOTET and how much noise the community likely makes to see a return for more class companions. It definitely seems to be something Charles is adamant about addressing, so it's fair to say that will be one of the top priorities for future expansions.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Aowin

[Newyankalt]

I disagree. All three are needed.

 

The Revan book makes it abundantly clear why both Revan and Scourge should be there at Valkorion's demise.

 

With regard to Kira, if you maxed out her affection/influence, there is a minor quest after the events of Chapter 3 unfold where the emperor is still a threat to her and her friends. BioWare has not revisited that story due to scrapping future class story chapters and focusing on other things. This is a great opportunity for BioWare to tie up loose ends and resolve the wide open door they created with regard to Kira and Valkorion.

 

Revan had his chance to defeat the Emperor, 3 times actually and he failed. His part is over.

 

Kira is really not that relevant, she's some outcast girl that went to the Jedi, she didn't spend much time in the company of the emperor.

 

Scourge spent centuries as his right hand, nobody knows him better, he is the only a real argument can be made for at this point

Edited November 19, 2016 by Newyankalt

[CorellianWannabe]

KOTET is the first time that Revan actually being in SWTOR makes sense. Again, just read the Revan book and you'll understand why. I don't want Revan to be the focus. I just want him to have a role and to at least acknowledge some of the events unfolding. Revan has been on Nathema multiple times. Scourge has also been there. Kira also has a stake in defeating Valkorion due to what he did to her as well as many of her friends who were also children of the emperor.

 

All of these characters want to see a conclusion to this story, so it only makes sense that all of them play some role in Valkorion's ultimate demise. Believe me when I say I only want Revan involved specifically for this moment. Revan is my favorite character in Star Wars and I would have rather he never had a presence in SWTOR with how BioWare has handled him. That being said, he absolutely needs recognition in some capacity in KOTET.

 

Why should anyone be expected to go to outside sources to 'understand' the plot of this game? What's next, you should totally read these comics to understand just how deep it is to name it Carrick Station?

 

Kira-so she's a 'child of the emperor' (a plot point so unimportant that no one bothers to mention it to the Consular even after hearing about it from the Knight-parallel universes perhaps?)- does that mean the outlander should round up a few dozen of the others who are presumably floating around, or is Kira somehow special? Why would most characters trust a conduit to the Emperor, with only her word that he's 'gone'? Bad enough to have the Emperor in my head, no there are two of us whose mental couches he can crash on?

 

Scourge-so he knows about an Emperor that spent enough time away to build up this super-awesome secret empire that is totally more rocking than that piddly Sith one. That's like saying I should be called to talk about a guy I knew 25 years ago.

 

Isn't one of the running comments that this Emperor is so radically different from the Sith Emperor? If so why would Scourge have any more insight then anyone else from the 'old galaxy'? Shouldn't Senya be a better source of information on the Emperor? At least her time around him is more recent.

 

Again, Revan is not a character. Revan is a cipher that the player of KOTOR created by their choices (that, as always, proved meaningless). Perhaps you mean that Drew's Revan is your favorite character-the bland, white guy?

Edited November 19, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[SerraShar]

What about

 

 

Jedi consular final boss . What is his name ? Wasn't one of them too child of the emprore or something ?

 

[Rrusalka]

If you want to be technical, we have about half of our companions back. Happy? My point is many of them have returned with a lot of them coming back via Alliance alerts. The companions who are left are either likely love interests or the most popular companions everybody enjoys.

 

I'm under the impression all love interests will be featured in chapters (KOTET and beyond) and likely not in Alliance alerts. We don't know how many companions will return with KOTET, but I'd wager we are at least getting two class companions and then new companions via the story. We may have a few alliance alerts as well for non-LI companions.

 

A lot is going to depend on the reception of KOTET and how much noise the community likely makes to see a return for more class companions. It definitely seems to be something Charles is adamant about addressing, so it's fair to say that will be one of the top priorities for future expansions.

 

I would hope this as well but at this time I think it is going to be a big fat zero. I think they were probably setting up KotET to launch like KotFE spread out over a portion of the year. Then EA probably cracked the whip about revenue loss so they are focusing on group content now thinking players will return. If the group content is not real op's I can't see raiders returning.

 

I hope I am wrong and we see more than Ranos, Shae and maybe a Jakorro sighting in 10 days. I would love to see my good friend Andronikos come in blasters blazing to show Koth what a real pirate looks like. I am subbed through mid to late December and I want to be wowed. I want to give them my money I really do but this release and the news in January will be what makes or finally breaks me.

[CorellianWannabe]

I see a lot of ranting about being against BioWare appealing to the niche and minority of the player base. Revan isn't some niche character. Just because you don't happen to know anything about him beyond KotOR 1 doesn't mean others are in the same boat. Revan's history is well-documented from the Mandalorian War, to the Jedi Civil War, to the aftermath of it. That's a time period of at least ten to fifteen years. The fact that he was made a white male is actually rather minor considering the character has much more depth based on his ideology and his actions. What makes Revan iconic is his mask, not what he looks like.

 

Drew Karpyshyn was the lead writer on ME1 and ME2. While your "Daddy issues" comment is comical since you are alluding to some of the companions, the problem with that game had to do more with the fact that there really wasn't a story. Shepard died. Shepard was brought back to life. Shepard has to build a team and go on a suicide mission. That's the full extent of Mass Effect 2. The story wasn't very substantial, but the character development was very well-done.

 

So Revan is iconic based on a mask-in other words 'he' has as much depth as Nihilus? That's what I've been arguing the entire time-thank you for making my point so succinctly.

 

What development? Tali and Garrus fall in love with Shepard due to fans inundating EA with requests/demands/ creepy threads about what her sweat would taste like? Cerberus really isn't the Nazi-like stooges from the first game (even if they really are- as the third game proves) and Shepard apparently can't take this uber ship back to Earth and surrender it? Choose your messed-up love interest (if Shepard is male) and watch them fall apart emotionally, then fade to black in a mood whiplash?

 

Besides, what's the point of alleged character development without a plot to go with it? Couldn't the same thing have happened with Shepard playing cards with the 'dirty dozen' with a few hours of cutscenes instead? It worked for SWTOR- so well that that style is getting a sequel!

[CorellianWannabe]

What about

 

 

Jedi consular final boss . What is his name ? Wasn't one of them too child of the emprore or something ?

 

Not only that, he was there when the Knight announced it to the Council. Why Satele never bothers to inform the Consular of these 'children' is one of the mysteries of the game.

[SerraShar]

Not only that, he was there when the Knight announced it to the Council. Why Satele never bothers to inform the Consular of these 'children' is one of the mysteries of the game.

 

You getting any deja-vus with this ? Bhaal and his spawn and now we only need one Priestess to do the betrayer .

[CorellianWannabe]

You getting any deja-vus with this ? Bhaal and his spawn and now we only need one Priestess to do the betrayer .

 

I wouldn't be surprised since I've read that this whole story comes from a tabletop RPG one of the devs was running.

[Newyankalt]

What about

 

 

Jedi consular final boss . What is his name ? Wasn't one of them too child of the emprore or something ?

 

The First Son?

 

He seems pretty dead and if not, he has no real purpose at this point.

 

Most of the class bosses wouldn't fit in 5 years later, they're not relevant or powerful enough at this point... well except *cough* Jadus *cough*...

 

Who could fit in, he was the master planner, no matter the outcome in Agent act 1, the agent isn't powerful enough to stop him

[casirabit]

What about

 

 

Jedi consular final boss . What is his name ? Wasn't one of them too child of the emprore or something ?

 

 

The consular actually defeated the First Son in the final battle and based on your choices

(1) Either that individual is dead

(2) Or you helped the individual push the First Son out and therefore revealed the rest of the children so probably by the time of this they have been unmasked and therefore no longer a threat so probably not one that would still be in touch with that part of him now.

 

[Aowin]

The First Son isn't relevant anymore. The Consular story made that rather conclusive. The children of the emperor are also no elusive secret at this point. Kira is just noteworthy because she was able to break Valkorion's dominance. I just see her personal knowledge dealing with Valkorion, even if he has changed, being of use. The same is the case with Scourge who obviously was doing the emperor's bidding for 300 years.

 

I could see all three of these characters providing useful advice that, together, could help the Outlander overcome and vanquish Valkorion for good. That's assuming we actually get to defeat Valkorion once and for all. We actually don't know what Valkorion's fate will be. What is certain is Vaylin will be removed from the eternal throne, but who will replace her?

[Savej]

This does discuss minor KOTET spoilers from the recent Producer Live Stream, so you have been warned. As everyone certainly knows by now, we are going to Nathema in KOTET. For those who don't know, Nathema is a planet with a lot of history. It's not just the birth place of Valkorion and training grounds for Vaylin, it's also where Revan and Scourge meet in the Revan book and the moment Scourge realizes Valkorion is a threat to all life in the galaxy.

 

We also know from Charles that we will finally learn Valkorion's true motivations by the time KOTET concludes, so it only makes sense to bring back the characters who understand him the most. Revan and Scourge both spent 300 years getting to know the emperor and what makes him tick. Kira was a Child of the Emperor and was a prepared vessel for Valkorion should he ever need a new body.

 

All three of these characters understand how sinister and irredeemable Valkorion is. We already know many companions that were planned to return in KOTET will not be returning due to negative feedback of companion chapters in KOTFE coming across as filler. That being said, it's of the utmost importance that those companions (Scourge and Kira) with the strongest ties and history to Valkorion return with Revan making an entrance as well to at least advise the Outlander.

 

If KOTET fails to have Lord Scourge, Kira, and Revan mentioned or involved in some way, it will be a massive missed opportunity on BioWare's part.

 

Maybe they're all dead?

[Lunafox]

There have been so many opportunities missed where Scourge should have been an integral part of the story. He must be returned in KOTET and he needs to have an important part, because he has been ignored for far too long.

 

I can't see the man standing idly by while the galaxy goes to hell for five years, and I do believe he would make an effort to find the JK again. He must sense Valkorion's presence and as he did previously, must be working to stop him, seeing as he understands his motives. The story could be so much more with Scourge, and yet he's been left out time and again. I hate to say it, but the writers here are dropping the ball. They dropped the ball when they opted to return companions that no one cared about first. There were only two or three that mattered returned, and even so, some of those had to share their chapter.

 

The romantic aspects of the story are sadly neglected, and are a vital part of an enjoyable story/game experience. Star Wars was a franchise that had something for everyone, action, romance, fight scenes, tragedy, victory, and betrayal. It was satisfying and that's why it's a success. The vanilla stories had these aspects as well, and were satisfying, but the new one size fits no one story lacks in several key areas, and it's hurting the game. :/

 

This doesn't mean it should be scrapped, it means that it needs to be done BETTER.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Lunafox

[Aeneas_Falco]

Of all the companions Kira and Scourge are the ones that most need to be brought back at some point, as they both have personal connections to the Emperor.

 

They should have been brought back in KotFE given their story relevence.

 

Instead we got Yuun, Skadge, Broonmark, and Xalek.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[clearsighted]

The Revan character has been definitively ruined. It is a joke. It's not coming back.

 

Lord Scourge and Kira however, definitely need to come back. Although I'm sure that Bioware will find some way to screw it up, so that the Jedi Knight character doesn't get 'special treatment'. Despite the Imperial Agent getting Scorpio and Kaliyo as major players.

[Aowin]

There have been so many opportunities missed where Scourge should have been an integral part of the story. He must be returned in KOTET and he needs to have an important part, because he has been ignored for far too long.

 

I can't see the man standing idly by while the galaxy goes to hell for five years, and I do believe he would make an effort to find the JK again. He must sense Valkorion's presence and as he did previously, must be working to stop him, seeing as he understands his motives. The story could be so much more with Scourge, and yet he's been left out time and again. I hate to say it, but the writers here are dropping the ball. They dropped the ball when they opted to return companions that no one cared about first. There were only two or three that mattered returned, and even so, some of those had to share their chapter.

 

The romantic aspects of the story are sadly neglected, and are a vital part of an enjoyable story/game experience. Star Wars was a franchise that had something for everyone, action, romance, fight scenes, tragedy, victory, and betrayal. It was satisfying and that's why it's a success. The vanilla stories had these aspects as well, and were satisfying, but the new one size fits no one story lacks in several key areas, and it's hurting the game. :/

 

This doesn't mean it should be scrapped, it means that it needs to be done BETTER.

 

Agreed. I do not think less chapters is necessarily a better solution. What I do believe BioWare should do is provide better pacing and integrate these companions in a more natural fashion that flows with the story. KOTFE did a lot of things right from a storytelling perspective, but BioWare also made a lot of mistakes with regard to how they reintroduced companions. This can be improved upon. Outright abandoning the approach isn't ideal. Of course, this change in tactics is largely happening due to the lack of group content in KOTFE and the outcry from raiders.

[Aowin]

Of all the companions Kira and Scourge are the ones that most need to be brought back at some point, as they both have personal connections to the Emperor.

 

They should have been brought back in KotFE given their story relevence.

 

Instead we got Yuun, Skadge, Broonmark, and Xalek.

 

Truth be told, I think BioWare deliberately saved the best for last. While a few moderately popular companions have returned, the majority of the most beloved companions have not. I can somewhat understand this as BioWare wouldn't want to front load their best and have nothing to show for later on. That being said, I'd wager many players did not care to see the return of any of the companions you mentioned. I killed Skadge and Broonmark, so there inclusion was really pointless for me.

[kirorx]

What of if they come back together to hunt you down and kill you because technically you are valokorians new vessel. At least they see it that way and think that stopping you somehow entraps valkorian.

 

Maybe even dive even deeper into it and have it so they had been keeping people away from helping you when you were trapped in carbonite because valkorian was actually trapt in there too. Valkorian helping you stay alive was essentially him keeping himself alive through you.

Edited November 20, 2016 by kirorx

[Lunafox]

Agreed. I do not think less chapters is necessarily a better solution. What I do believe BioWare should do is provide better pacing and integrate these companions in a more natural fashion that flows with the story. KOTFE did a lot of things right from a storytelling perspective, but BioWare also made a lot of mistakes with regard to how they reintroduced companions. This can be improved upon. Outright abandoning the approach isn't ideal. Of course, this change in tactics is largely happening due to the lack of group content in KOTFE and the outcry from raiders.

 

I guess I can't really blame them, I'd be mental too, if I had to wait so long for what I wanted to do. That time may yet come, depending on when they decide to return the companions. It's not a hiatus I look forward to. :/