CXP rewards and repeatable chapters.

[ForjKlahaa]

So according to the live stream, the veteran level is tuned to be completed in mid-tier ops gear for the level you are at. At 65 this is 216 (hard mode ops gear) and Eric was 66 in 224 (NiM gear but not fully augmented) and got creamed the first time he played off camera and just scraped by the second time at the final boss (with a level 20 Lana dying but Eric using off heals to survive).

 

I think this is great that it's going to be a real challenge. That you have to progressively gear up to do it but then at the end of the stream, a big deal was made that group content would still be a quicker way to earn CXP than this hardcore solo content which blows. If I need HM ops level gear to clear the content, then that speaks to just how difficult it is so why should is reward CXP at a slower rate than SM EV? All Eric said was you would earn more CXP than heroics. So TFPs in a group of 4 with bolster and kolto stations that takes about 20 minutes to complete will reward more CXP than running chapters solo at veteran level that you need to be in HM Ops gear for, grind all story comps to 20 (because they switch around so much) and really know how to play your class in order get through them?

 

Unless Eric is just really bad and these chapters are going to be a breeze, then it doesn't seem fair or worth anyone's time. I may as well go kill champions on Belvsavis instead.

 

N.B. For those that didn't watch it Eric was almost killed by the Walker plus a handful of skytroopers in chapter 3 (just after you wake up from carbonite) and he was in 224 gear.

 

Edit: Because a couple of people have asked about it, when I say HM gear I mean the gear you need to do HM (216) not the gear that drops from it (220) which is what I thought Eric meant when he said "mid-tier". Either assumption means you will need the same tier gear that you need to complete a HM or NiM Op.

Edited November 4, 2016 by ForjKlahaa

[QuinlanSaathis]

Have you seen Eric play before?

He really does suck.

[ForjKlahaa]

Have you seen Eric play before?

He really does suck.

 

I don't play mercs so I couldn't really tell what he was doing but it reminded me of when you you're trying to do an H2 that used to be an H4, at level, on Belsavis and you're not paying attention and you end up pulling a room full of golds and suddenly your god healer comp can't keep up and you're seeing your health go down to 20% and you're trying to remember where you put your heroic moment because you never normally use the thing.... except this was happening all through the chapter not just the boss.

[phalczen]

1) I interpret mid-tier gear to be 220, not 216, since its the middle of the tiers of difficulty in ops. Is the OP considering 208, the recommended gear level for starting a Story mode op, as the first tier then, even though it lacks a set bonus?

2) The skytroopers went down to his merc aoe's pretty easily.

3) Musco's character lacked augments, all four class buffs, and I'd be willing to bet was also missing legacy datacrons and legacy companion bonuses. Many merely casual raiders still have that as a minimum.

4) How many of us have at least one rank 50 or near 50 companions on multiple toons by this point? Musco's Lana was 20.

5) Chapter 3 was nice because there was a gold elite to fight pretty early in the chapter, which is why they chose it. However, the earlier chapters didn't showcase some of the ai and mechanic improvements we saw in chapters 15 and 16.

6) Eric often plays other classes in gameplay demos, and he is often and wrongly labeled "bad," but he mains a merc so he is strongest with the demonstrated class, plus he was distracted by the other aspects of the presentation.

 

So, I'll reserve judgment regarding the difficulty of "Veteran" setting until I get the chance to see it for myself. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, or resentful. I just don't know if his test conditions represent the baseline for the majority of people who would want to do Veteran and Master settings. Granted, not everyone who wants a challenge is a min-maxxer, but all the things I mentioned in #3 add up cumulatively for a very significant increase to power. I mean to say, he fought clusters of 3 skytroopers each and they melted to his Death from Above and Sweeping Blasters. Yes he lost a bit more health, but was he really in danger of dying to those trash? More importantly, would anyone with the stuff in #3 above be in danger? Regarding the boss fight, the Walker didn't have any new mechanics like they've explored in Eternal Championship. Not that I would expect them to have the time to add that much tuning to the older chapters.

 

If you don't handle the trash in S&V correctly, in the Arms Bazaar, even on story mode, it can be a wipe. I didn't get that feeling from the gameplay he showed, hence, why I need to reserve judgement until I see it for myself.

[AllisonLightning]

I don't play mercs so I couldn't really tell what he was doing but it reminded me of when you you're trying to do an H2 that used to be an H4, at level, on Belsavis and you're not paying attention and you end up pulling a room full of golds and suddenly your god healer comp can't keep up and you're seeing your health go down to 20% and you're trying to remember where you put your heroic moment because you never normally use the thing.... except this was happening all through the chapter not just the boss.

 

That's how I know I'm too sleepy to do H2s, I pull golds and silvers every five seconds- pay in mind, I've never been so out of it to do it the entire run through. I use my Heroic moment either as a speed up or as a meta story moment where I'm roleplaying in my own head canon.

 

The balanced for DPS comment made me cringe- I may main a DPS but I just endured KOTFE as a tank and I think it's deranged that they wouldn't put any thought into people who may want to do this content as other classes. Who needs to get caught up though- the story of KOTFE is seared into my brain.

[ShawDou]

4) How many of us have at least one rank 50 or near 50 companions on multiple toons by this point? Musco's Lana was 20.

 

Interesting options bit this one is not valid. Since in chapters you are forced to use certain companions and get all of them to higher ranks is expensive and contra-productive.

[peter_plankskull]

As stated in the thread there was a lack of buffs we knowingly had that he lacked, IE lack of class buffs augments, and mid tier companion which isn't likely unless you use a 60 token. Not to mention that I wouldn't really classify that as "hard" as it become the very thing I feared, mobs simply having increased health and increased damage rather than mechanics to follow. It would simply be more grindy than anything rather than mechanically tackling the obstacle it seems. The mobs are still subjected to tons of CC anyway and admitably a merc is stronger in that aspect than most classes, but unless you let a mob beat on you for no reason it still seems easy with a tedious artificial grinding factor. However it seems it will absolve yourself of boredom keeping you on your toes and give some of that feeling of danger so it isn't all for nothing, but not something to play more than once.

[AllisonLightning]

Interesting options bit this one is not valid. Since in chapters you are forced to use certain companions and get all of them to higher ranks is expensive and contra-productive.

 

I've been playing a year and four/five months and my highest Influence companion is 30 (Vette). I don't really spend time grinding characters to max Influence- as far as I'm concerned, I do gifts when I need to. I'm doubtful the forced companion thing has been fixed unless they just decided to leave KOTFE as is and change the pace in KOTET.

[IanArgent]

Unless he was playing a "Dev mode" version, 224 gear is not "mid-tier" for KotET, it's either Tier 0 or Tier 1. The gear cap is moving up, along with the crafting cap and the level cap.

 

As for "balanced for DPS" - feh. I just spent a good 15 minutes stalemated against a HSF exarch with a tank in 204 PvP because I couldn't put up enough DPS to overpower his heal, and couldn't interrupt his heals often enough. My health and my (Inf 30) comp's health never got particularly threatened, despite spending a ridiculous amount of time being CCd. Fight ended when a chain of stuns and knockbacks put me over the edge despite my maneuvering; and I gave up for the night.

 

That's my problem with balancing for player DPS by the "big-bag-of-HP hitting softly but continuously" method - it only works for DPS+heal; the tank+heal combo is never threatened by the damage, but has problems blowing through the HP and heals, Tank+DPS doesn't have enough healing, and the two heal combos end up with the healer facetanking (and not putting up enough DPS in the case of a comp tank).

[Tsetso]

Unless he was playing a "Dev mode" version, 224 gear is not "mid-tier" for KotET, it's either Tier 0 or Tier 1. The gear cap is moving up, along with the crafting cap and the level cap.

 

As for "balanced for DPS" - feh. I just spent a good 15 minutes stalemated against a HSF exarch with a tank in 204 PvP because I couldn't put up enough DPS to overpower his heal, and couldn't interrupt his heals often enough. My health and my (Inf 30) comp's health never got particularly threatened, despite spending a ridiculous amount of time being CCd. Fight ended when a chain of stuns and knockbacks put me over the edge despite my maneuvering; and I gave up for the night.

 

That's my problem with balancing for player DPS by the "big-bag-of-HP hitting softly but continuously" method - it only works for DPS+heal; the tank+heal combo is never threatened by the damage, but has problems blowing through the HP and heals, Tank+DPS doesn't have enough healing, and the two heal combos end up with the healer facetanking (and not putting up enough DPS in the case of a comp tank).

 

Just a hint. Disable the channel ability of your healing companion. that way instead of trying to heal your 50 hp with 10k heal, your companion will be doing damage.

[IanArgent]

Just a hint. Disable the channel ability of your healing companion. that way instead of trying to heal your 50 hp with 10k heal, your companion will be doing damage.

 

I'll have to try that

[Cuiwe]

I'll have to try that

 

But keep in mind: you are disabling one of stronger(if not the strongest) heals of your Companion this way. Unless keybound, I wouldn't really advise this. I don't really think the damage of a Healer Companion is worth this hassle. But ymmv, as always.

[IanArgent]

But keep in mind: you are disabling one of stronger(if not the strongest) heals of your Companion this way. Unless keybound, I wouldn't really advise this. I don't really think the damage of a Healer Companion is worth this hassle. But ymmv, as always.

 

Since I was spamming Heroic Moment on cooldown and using the various alliance crates nearly on cooldown as well, I'm personally not sure if the minor change would matter - which is why I said I will "try it"; rather than "do it."

Edited November 4, 2016 by IanArgent

[Andryah]

So according to the live stream, the veteran level is tuned to be completed in mid-tier ops gear for the level you are at. At 65 this is 216 (hard mode ops gear) and Eric was 66 in 224 (NiM gear but not fully augmented) and got creamed the first time he played off camera and just scraped by the second time at the final boss (with a level 20 Lana dying but Eric using off heals to survive).

 

I think this is great that it's going to be a real challenge. That you have to progressively gear up to do it but then at the end of the stream, a big deal was made that group content would still be a quicker way to earn CXP than this hardcore solo content which blows. If I need HM ops level gear to clear the content, then that speaks to just how difficult it is so why should is reward CXP at a slower rate than SM EV? All Eric said was you would earn more CXP than heroics. So TFPs in a group of 4 with bolster and kolto stations that takes about 20 minutes to complete will reward more CXP than running chapters solo at veteran level that you need to be in HM Ops gear for, grind all story comps to 20 (because they switch around so much) and really know how to play your class in order get through them?

 

Unless Eric is just really bad and these chapters are going to be a breeze, then it doesn't seem fair or worth anyone's time. I may as well go kill champions on Belvsavis instead.

 

N.B. For those that didn't watch it Eric was almost killed by the Walker plus a handful of skytroopers at the end of chapter 3 (just after you wake up from carbonite) and he was in 224 gear.

 

So.. for more then a year now.. the forum mantras have centered around story content being too easy... Bioware sucks!

 

Now they give players a challenge switch.. and now.. without even playing the content yourself.. it's declared too hard and not worth the time.

 

What that.....?!!?

 

Kobayashi Maru syndrome strikes again.

[Rolodome]

So according to the live stream, the veteran level is tuned to be completed in mid-tier ops gear for the level you are at. At 65 this is 216 (hard mode ops gear) and Eric was 66 in 224 (NiM gear but not fully augmented) and got creamed the first time he played off camera and just scraped by the second time at the final boss (with a level 20 Lana dying but Eric using off heals to survive).

 

I think this is great that it's going to be a real challenge. That you have to progressively gear up to do it but then at the end of the stream, a big deal was made that group content would still be a quicker way to earn CXP than this hardcore solo content which blows. If I need HM ops level gear to clear the content, then that speaks to just how difficult it is so why should is reward CXP at a slower rate than SM EV? All Eric said was you would earn more CXP than heroics. So TFPs in a group of 4 with bolster and kolto stations that takes about 20 minutes to complete will reward more CXP than running chapters solo at veteran level that you need to be in HM Ops gear for, grind all story comps to 20 (because they switch around so much) and really know how to play your class in order get through them?

 

Unless Eric is just really bad and these chapters are going to be a breeze, then it doesn't seem fair or worth anyone's time. I may as well go kill champions on Belvsavis instead.

 

N.B. For those that didn't watch it Eric was almost killed by the Walker plus a handful of skytroopers at the end of chapter 3 (just after you wake up from carbonite) and he was in 224 gear.

You can be sure that as we get a few weeks into KOTET, people will be hashing the fastest (and sometimes, borderline exploitative) methods to maximize CXP gain.

 

I can't see much point worrying over those particular details now. They probably aren't even finalized and unless you're in private testing, it's impossible to know what the different rates of gain are.

 

That said, my impression with the repeatable chapters and difficulty levels is not to give "the best CXP, up there with everything else," but to give those who want a solo challenge something that is, well, a challenge. And then they can earn toward the best gear in the game while doing it. Similar to EC? But while more engaged in the story content.

 

I don't think their intention is for it to be as lucrative as, say, organized group content. Which would make sense because if it's too lucrative compared to everything else (and too easy) then you end up with all these raiders and PvPers jumping into repeatable story to get their crates and gee-tee-eff-oh, grumbling the whole time about how their types of content should be the ideal path for their gear.

[Andryah]

You can be sure that as we get a few weeks into KOTET, people will be hashing the fastest (and sometimes, borderline exploitative) methods to maximize CXP gain.

 

I can't see much point worrying over those particular details now. They probably aren't even finalized and unless you're in private testing, it's impossible to know what the different rates of gain are.

 

/Agree.

 

However logic, practicality, and common sense are generally absent many players comments and opinions during the silly season leading up to an expac release date.

 

I'm not sure why so many people choose to live life in perpetual pessimism... but it is both common and appears to feed some personal need.

[Rolodome]

/Agree.

 

However logic, practicality, and common sense are generally absent many players comments and opinions during the silly season leading up to an expac release date.

 

I'm not sure why so many people choose to live life in perpetual pessimism... but it is both common and appears to feed some personal need.

My intent was not to insult what someone is choosing to post and I do not agree or endorse that aspect of what you're saying.

[Andryah]

My intent was not to insult what someone is choosing to post and I do not agree or endorse that aspect of what you're saying.

 

I insulted nobody... nor am I insulted by your attempt to run a passive aggressive on me here. Cute.

 

Yes yes... every thread topic and every post in every thread topic here is completely objective, level headed, and based on flawless fact and logic.

 

Interesting that we have to pretend that every hyperbolic approach to forum discussion and complaint is somehow to be left unchallenged and we all pretend everyone is being logical and open minded.... lest someone somehow claim their feelings are hurt.

 

You can check forum threads in this forum back every year leading up to an expac release and you will clearly see that as soon as the studio begins disclosing information... people get angry, exaggerate, berate the studio and other players over the indignity of the changes, and just generally go nuts until the expac releases. Pretending this is not the case is very naïve in my view. Taking the position that we cannot talk about the elephant in the room is itself silly.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[Rolodome]

I insulted nobody... nor am I insulted by your attempt to run a passive aggressive on me here. Cute.

 

Yes yes... every thread topic and every post in every thread topic here is completely objective, level headed, and based on flawless fact and logic.

 

Interesting that we have to pretend that every hyperbolic approach to forum discussion and complaint is somehow to be left unchallenged and we all pretend everyone is being logical and open minded.... lest someone somehow claim their feelings are hurt.

 

You can check forum threads in this forum back every year leading up to an expac release and you will clearly see that as soon as the studio begins disclosing information... people get angry, exaggerate, berate the studio and other players over the indignity of the changes, and just generally do nuts until the expac releases. Pretending this is not the case is very naïve in my view.

Nothing passive aggressive. I didn't want the OP thinking that was my intent.

 

If you don't see it as insulting to say that someone's comments are missing logic, practicality, and common sense. And then to insinuate that they have some flawed mental state where they feed on pessimism... then go ahead and think that way. I don't have any desire to get into it with you right now.

 

I really just wanted to clarify that I'm not endorsing that kind of talk. I will happily tear down an argument and if you make an argument I agree with, I will happily agree with you. But I will not in good conscience endorse tearing down a person or group.

[Andryah]

Nothing passive aggressive. I didn't want the OP thinking that was my intent.

 

If you don't see it as insulting to say that someone's comments are missing logic, practicality, and common sense. And then to insinuate that they have some flawed mental state where they feed on pessimism... then go ahead and think that way. I don't have any desire to get into it with you right now.

 

I really just wanted to clarify that I'm not endorsing that kind of talk. I will happily tear down an argument and if you make an argument I agree with, I will happily agree with you. But I will not in good conscience endorse tearing down a person or group.

 

Rolodome.. you need to calm down and stop projecting. You have done this several times in recent weeks specifically targeting me.

 

I was speaking to the general tenor of the forum in the lead up to an expac. I singled out nobody, nor did I name anyone nor attack anyone in my comments. Please.. go back and read what I actually said, AND did not say... more carefully, and absent bias.

 

Stop projecting. If my written words are going to trigger false assumptions within you that you feel compelled to write down and post ... I suggest you just put me on ignore.

 

By the way, me quoting a part of one of your comments IN NO WAY links you to my comments about forum temperament during an expac. That too is a false projection on your part. Would you feel better if I never ever quote you again? Is that what I need to do so you don't feel I am somehow speaking for you????

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[xkcurtisx]

Have you seen Eric play before?

He really does suck.

 

which is kinda ironic if you think about it.

He is terrible at the product he is trying to sell.

[Tsetso]

which is kinda ironic if you think about it.

He is terrible at the product he is trying to sell.

 

Honestly that was the first time i saw arsenal merc using fusion missile.

[Andryah]

which is kinda ironic if you think about it.

He is terrible at the product he is trying to sell.

 

What does that have to do with anything though?

 

I was the business owner for a number of web properties that were customer facing over my career, and I was never as good as my customers at using and applying them. I also project managed complex IT projects, even though I could not code or QA with the proficiency of the professionals actually hired to do so. Then again.. they could not project manage their way out of a box either.. so it was a win for everyone, me, the developers, and the company.

 

Honestly.. if Eric was so good at playing.. that players took notice and lauded him for it... I would be concerned.. because that would indicate to me that he was in fact spending more time playing the game then doing his job as community manager.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Andryah

[Rolodome]

Rolodome.. you need to calm down and stop projecting. You have done this several times in recent weeks specifically targeting me.

 

I was speaking to the general tenor of the forum in the lead up to an expac. I singled out nobody, nor did I name anyone nor attack anyone in my comments. Please.. go back and read what I actually said, AND did not say... more carefully, and absent bias.

 

Stop projecting. If my written words are going to trigger false assumptions within you that you feel compelled to write down and post ... I suggest you just put me on ignore.

 

By the way, me quoting a part of one of your comments IN NO WAY links you to my comments about forum temperament during an expac. That too is a false projection on your part. Would you feel better if I never ever quote you again? Is that what I need to do so you don't feel I am somehow speaking for you????

Trying to hide personal attacks behind generalizations doesn't make them not personal attacks.

 

Twist and manipulate all you want. Call into question my mental state. I know exactly what you're doing. It's pretty disgusting, but I know what it is. And it's on display for everyone to see.

[xkcurtisx]

What does that have to do with anything though?

 

I was the business owner for a number of web properties that were customer facing over my career, and I was never as good as my customers at using and applying them. I also project managed complex IT projects, even though I could not code or QA with the proficiency of the professionals actually hired to do so. Then again.. they could not project manage their way out of a box either.. so it was a win for everyone, me, the developers, and the company.

 

Honestly.. if Eric was so good at playing.. that players took notice and lauded him for it... I would be concerned.. because that would indicate to me that he was in fact spending more time playing the game then doing his job as community manager.

 

This is different to what you are describing.

He is a public face for this game, if he doesn't even have a basic understanding with a class that he chose to play how can he properly relay requested/needed/.... changes to said class to the coders? You as a company owner even if you are not a coder but hired people for coding you would know exactly what u want out of that coded software and how should it work.