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Dealing with operatives in pvp

CreamMan

By CreamMan
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CreamMan

CreamMan

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Hello all,

 

Title pretty much explains it. I've recenty come back to the game, so I'm not fully aware of the ups and downs of classes over this expansion.

 

1v1'd a lethality operative (seems to be the only type). His hp barely went below 90% the entire time, and by the time I got to about 30% (after using all my cd's, and a stim etc) he took me down faster than the fat man who sat down too fast.

 

He just had everything. Had dps, had stealth, had crazy mobility, had stupidly huge self-heals...I could barely touch him.

 

I'm immortal and in full basic pvp gear and had 0 chance.

 

Any tips at all?

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LordTurin

LordTurin

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Hello all,

 

Title pretty much explains it. I've recenty come back to the game, so I'm not fully aware of the ups and downs of classes over this expansion.

 

1v1'd a lethality operative (seems to be the only type). His hp barely went below 90% the entire time, and by the time I got to about 30% (after using all my cd's, and a stim etc) he took me down faster than the fat man who sat down too fast.

 

He just had everything. Had dps, had stealth, had crazy mobility, had stupidly huge self-heals...I could barely touch him.

 

I'm immortal and in full basic pvp gear and had 0 chance.

 

Any tips at all?

 

Roll an operative.

 

Joking aside, a tank should honestly never be able to 1v1 a class that has self heals, especially if your build actually uses tank gear. Beyond that, operatives are easily the best 1v1 class in the game right now, The thing is though, the game doesn't balance around 1v1, so it's fine if they are good at that; as they aren't anywhere near the strongest class in any group matches.

 

Chances are, if you come across an operative and need to 1v1 them in a pvp match, it is because you are guarding a node and they are trying to kill you. You should have plenty of time to call out for help, and survive until people show up. Once that happens, the operative will either run away, or die really quickly. But in a duel, it's probably not worth bothering (there is a reason that the player-hosted 1v1 tournaments have stealth classes by themselves, and sometimes even just operatives by themselves.)

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CreamMan

CreamMan

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The 1v1 happened because I darted over to slow enemy capping of a node in that beach warzone. It worked for a bit, but ultimately proved futile :p.

 

It just seems crazy that this class is so absurdly good because they have everything (mobility, huge self-heals, good dps, stealth, stuns, escapes, dcd etc).

 

I've noticed that I can 1v1 a number of classes by virtue of wearing them down and minimising most of their damage. It doesn't really work against sorcerers (heal heal heal bubble heal heal heal bubble) or operatives (lol-i-have-everything-and-still-think-I'm-skilled-so-I'll-/lol-you).

 

I guess it grates the nerves that they have every advantage and can 1v1 you so easily. I've even seen some that have been 1v2/1v3 and, though they can't win, take ages to kill (if they die at all rather than just escaping and running off).

 

Crazy.

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RodneyMcNeely

RodneyMcNeely

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Don't 1v1 operatives. Probably not the answer you want to hear but if the operative is not terrible you won't win. Operatives are even duelling only against each other in most duelling tournaments.

So, why are many dueling tournaments not allowing Guardian/Juggernaut tanks in DPS gear? It's my understanding that this combination was so over powered that most respectable organizers say "NO" to skank tanks right up front.

 

:confused:

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Anishor

Anishor

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So, why are many dueling tournaments not allowing Guardian/Juggernaut tanks in DPS gear? It's my understanding that this combination was so over powered that most respectable organizers say "NO" to skank tanks right up front.

 

:confused:

 

No. There's two different things being stated here.

 

First, in a duel, an operative will kill any class, which is why most tournaments have seperate brackets for Operatives and everyone else.

 

Second, a sorc healer / shank tank (dps geared immortal) combo can defeat any other duo combo in the game.

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RodneyMcNeely

RodneyMcNeely

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No. There's two different things being stated here.

 

First, in a duel, an operative will kill any class, which is why most tournaments have seperate brackets for Operatives and everyone else.

 

Second, a sorc healer / shank tank (dps geared immortal) combo can defeat any other duo combo in the game.

Thanks for the quick reply, Anishor!

 

So, just to make sure I'm clear: a Defense Guardian/Immortal Juggernaut stands almost no chance in 1v1 against a Concealment Operative/Scrapper Scoundrel, regardless of gear setup. Does that sound about right?

 

If that's the case, do Assassins/Shadows (of any build) fare any better than Guards/Juggs? Thanks again for the input!

 

:)

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Scinald

Scinald

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It's not a hopeless as everyone describes. I'm sure between two top skilled Ops and Juggernauts the Op will win out as everyone said. Fortunately not everyone is equally skilled or equally geared.

 

So even if you are probably not going to win, you should do better than you described. Sounds like you have really bad damage. Put DPS mods and augs in your slots and try to time your pretty significant damage mitigation abilities to his attacks. In objective based WZs I can usually force an Op/Scoundrel to pull off and reset the fight if nothing else which provides time for reinforcements to come.

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TBDNicodemus

TBDNicodemus

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It's not a hopeless as everyone describes. I'm sure between two top skilled Ops and Juggernauts the Op will win out as everyone said. Fortunately not everyone is equally skilled or equally geared.

 

So even if you are probably not going to win, you should do better than you described. Sounds like you have really bad damage. Put DPS mods and augs in your slots and try to time your pretty significant damage mitigation abilities to his attacks. In objective based WZs I can usually force an Op/Scoundrel to pull off and reset the fight if nothing else which provides time for reinforcements to come.

 

This is a big part of fighting a operative... they are crazy strong 1v1, so make sure your calling for assistance in 1v1 against a operative... even if you are one yourself.

 

and to the other question about a shadow vs operative... operative is number 1, I don't think a shadow/sin is even in the top half dueling AC. TBH I'm not sure what an infiltration/deception spec is "balanced around" maybe the 1v1 cap? cause you can double instant mez? if that's the case... shame on BW.

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WayOfTheWarriorx

WayOfTheWarriorx

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Operatives dps should be palced into the line... Or BW really should nerf their stuns and roots abilities not mention their roll and defensive abilities

 

Operative DPS is being buffed considerable, two Operative specs will hold the rank 4 and Rank 6 spots on the DPS chart. Rank 4 spec will do more DPS than all other classes and specs save for Mercenary [iO Spec} and Sniper {Virulence and Engineering]. They will have some of the strongest DPS in the game, significantly more than even Marauders and Juggs.

 

Given that they also possess stealth capabilities, healing [Operative healers will be the strongest healers], and 7000 ccs, plus a new 30' knockback with a rather short CD, they are going to own PVP more than they already do.

 

Good for them, but rather disgusting for all those they will be moshing over.

 

From the sources that have been spreading information about 5.0, if they are to be trusted, the balancing of classes in 5.0 is going to be worse than it presently is, worse than many other times/metas as well.

 

Of course, until 5.0 actually is released there is no telling what the final actual numbers will be like. Things could certainly be different in their finality. But the closer you get to release, the less likely it is that major changes take place. We'll just have to wait and see how things will actually be until the new x-pac drops.

Edited by WayOfTheWarriorx
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Yezzan

Yezzan

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If you are a tank (tank) then, it could be a battle of attrition or you could just die really fast if you suck. If you are Tank in DPS gear then you can kill the Operative, especially if he makes a mistake. You have to time your mobility-impairing attacks, to control the operative. It's not easy, but it's do-able. Ofc, in a Wz, its not about 1v1, its about team work. So, if you are the defender call for help, if you are the aggressor, then try to stay alive as long as you can and force him to call for help. This usually means one or two of his team mates will peel to assist. However, good operatives rarely PUG. So if he's good, he probably won't call inc since he can delay you inevitably.
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Kirpputori

Kirpputori

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Deception sin can win 1v1's against concealment operatives but there is only two ways.

1.Player skill being higher (lot of not-so-good operatives around)

 

2.Managing to put so much pressure on the operative that they can't heal. If the operative can heal, you'll most likely lose. And if deception sin and concealment operative goes just full dps face to face, the sin will most likely win.

 

As for Hatred and tank sin, i think they will lose everytime against concealment

 

@RodneyMcNeely asking about sin vs operatives

Edited by Kirpputori
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TBDNicodemus

TBDNicodemus

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Deception sin can win 1v1's against concealment operatives but there is only two ways.

1.Player skill being higher (lot of not-so-good operatives around)

 

2.Managing to put so much pressure on the operative that they can't heal. If the operative can heal, you'll most likely lose. And if deception sin and concealment operative goes just full dps face to face, the sin will most likely win.

 

As for Hatred and tank sin, i think they will lose everytime against concealment

 

@RodneyMcNeely asking about sin vs operatives

 

I am an operative... at the start of the fight I will have 10% more DR and a HoT running. I will have more dcd... and you will be flash banged when I see recklessness popped. you will get more dps down on me... but I will roll out till my HoT bring me back in line with a victory... you will not be able to catch me, you will not be able to run from me, you can not mitigate more damage then me, and I don't have a spike to cc me through, its just all steady damage. Only 2 classes I have felt strong enough to out preform an operative is a tank/dps jug, merc (if I play solid). rolling should never have been an operative thing... only a sniper thing.

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  • 2 weeks later...
cool-dude

cool-dude

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Operatives aren't that great against Juggernauts. For the most part, its the panic mode people go into when either an operative shows themselves or starts rolling away from them that screws them up, because they do not find their rotation until they are half dead. An operative player depends on this panic mode, otherwise they just dot you and run away, once they realize you aren't scared of them, and know what you are doing. Edited by cool-dude
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cagthehack

cagthehack

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As a Vengeance Jugg, I can usually deal with Ops until help arrives. In a 1v1 fight I don't know. I doubt I'd win in the long run simple because of the Ops heal. I can heal twice - once through abilities and once through potions.

 

A lot depends on which WZ I'm in. If there's a healing node nearby, the fight can go on longer.

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