SerraShar Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 *Wave Pom Pom* Go GO Jennifer Hale ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just checked what's the average pay/hour - it's $250-$300. And i'm pretty sure that Jennifer Hale is getting a lot more than that. No sympathy from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latherfal Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I guess we'll find out when the voices in game start resembling my navigation apps. Lucy Liu robot: Oh, Fry, I love you more than the moon, the stars, the... [monotone] Lucy Liu robot: POETIC IMAGE #36 NOT FOUND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Meh, they are overpaid. Conditions are awful blah blah blah. I just watched an interview with a celeb who said she walked in, said a line, got paid $1 million, even though they didn't use said line in the end. That was for a disney movie. She said she got paid for 5 mins of her time. Maybe it's different for the actors on swtor, but this makes me sad. I hate the parts of the game without proper speaking cut scenes. That's for a disney movie, not a video game, and if it was a celeb in an interview, she probably has a very good agent and a lot of clout in the industry. In every part of the entertainment industry, the people getting hurt the most in wages and working conditions are the ones who don't have a lot of clout, who can't ask for much, and are trying to manage something of a living wage on what they can get. Which is the majority of workers in the industry. People like Jennifer Hale are probably not suffering monetarily at the point she is at in her career, but the clout she holds is all the more reason to be the figurehead of a strike. It's not about her specifically, it's about all her friends and fellow voice actors... all the "little guys"... the ones who aren't making a living wage and are getting treated like ****. Using famous celebs as the standard for what the job experience is like is sort of like using CEOs as the standard for what blue collar jobs are like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Here is Steve Blum going into detail about the whys and whats of it: http://www.gameactorsforall.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRomanRuler Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just checked what's the average pay/hour - it's $250-$300. And i'm pretty sure that Jennifer Hale is getting a lot more than that. No sympathy from me. Yes let me just check that private information that often is not allowed to be shared... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRomanRuler Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 That's heresy around here, just so you know. It's the dedicated raiders (and PvPers) that keep the keep the game alive; story is just something to be spacebarred through ASAP to get the to end-game. I want stats about this asap. I did not provide any either, but i wonder if you know where one could see those stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Yes let me just check that private information that often is not allowed to be shared... Finding out the average wage, is not hard and not a secret. That's the average. Is it the medium or is that taking the top pay and the bottom pay and averaging? One way over the top VO paycheck, can throw it all off. That all said, I can understand what the poster said. Hard to take serious, people who are making that much an hour. At the same time, there's people making the game what it is and the main company is making millions off them. Of course, I doubt the creators get a percentage that the VO actors are asking for when they do more for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Get ready people, the musicians are next. I mean, the human voice wasn't designed to scream/sing lyrics all the time like that, so they're surely going to have to raise the prices of albums and concert tickets when they sue the labels for secondary expenses... So they turned down a 9% pay increase so that they could go on strike? From the article: which is typically about $825 for a standard four-hour vocal session. So much for information that is private and can't be shared? That's more than I make a month on my disability. For 4 hours? How many of those sessions are they working a week, and they're worried about not being able to buy a house? Really? There's some greed at work here, alright, but I don't think it's game developers/publishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 And people wonder why unions are so disliked by the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) And people wonder why unions are so disliked by the masses. Well, unions have a 56% approval rate compared to 36% disapproval, so they aren't all that disliked. But anyways, in this case they're not striking over the upfront pay, it's mainly over the complete absence of residuals from the games. A voice actor's work on cartoons or other projects generally includes residuals and they're fighting to get the video game industry to follow suit. Jobs in their field are usually 'feast or famine' where they may be stuck going for stretches of time without a gig and thus without any upfront paychecks coming in, so having some form of residual payments from when they do get work (and they've done that work well and it's been successful) is an important part of the business model to them. Edited October 23, 2016 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Imagine playing every game today with 1980's text dialogue boxes instead of actual talking characters & npcs. You mean, stories with actual branching dialogue because money isn't being wasted on voice acting because 'reading is hard' for players now? Where I can sign up for these games instead all the development money being spent on Moisture Farmer Shaduuk babbling in looped 'alien' dialogue about needing someone to stop those evil pirates from stealing his water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Where I can sign up for these games instead all the development money being spent on Moisture Farmer Shaduuk babbling in looped 'alien' dialogue about needing someone to stop those evil pirates from stealing his water? FFXIV uses mostly text based dialog with minimal VA work And yet, this didn't result in this magical story experience you are pretending we would have without VA. Dont blame voice work for bad stories. Blame bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, unions have a 56% approval rate compared to 36% disapproval, so they aren't all that disliked. But anyways, in this case they're not striking over the upfront pay, it's mainly over the complete absence of residuals from the games. A voice actor's work on cartoons or other projects generally includes residuals and they're fighting to get the video game industry to follow suit. Jobs in their field are usually 'feast or famine' where they may be stuck going for stretches of time without a gig and thus without any upfront paychecks coming in, so having some form of residual payments from when they do get work (and they've done that work well and it's been successful) is an important part of the business model to them. Yes, that is part of it. It's easy to pull some kind of hourly rate out of one's *** and say they're being greedy, but for one thing, there is the absence of being able to support themselves, like you said. And it's not just about money... anyone who thinks that it's all some money issue is ignoring 90% of the dialogue about this. A big part of it is working conditions. Workers being asked to perform under conditions that are not safe for the long-term health of the human voice. It pisses me off, tbh, that the detractors are trying to make this entirely about money, when it never has been. It seems like most of the opposition to strikes like these (that is not being written by corporate lawyers) boils down to "I'm jealous of the 0.01% of entertainers who walk into work and come out with millions. Therefore, everyone in the entertainment industry is rich and greedy." It's irritatingly ignorant because I know a lot of people who are in the entertainment industry and most of them have day jobs. Some have been trying to get ahead for over a decade and have made what laypeople would consider little progress. I know one guy who went to Julliard and got lucky enough to be a working actor for most of his adult life and support himself through that, but most of you have probably never heard of him because he's a B-list star, if not C-list. He is the definition of success in terms working as an actor and being an entertainer, but I can't imagine he's rich by any stretch of the imagination. And he's someone who has done pretty damn well for himself, if you compare him to the countless others who work day jobs and can hardly get past bit parts and roles that they don't even get paid for. I realize I'm talking about physical actors, not voice actors, but the former actually has a pretty well-established union, so I can only imagine it's that much worse for voice actors not having the level of union strength that physical actors have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Classic example of corporate greed..... because if you take out the voice actors in games like fallout, mass effect, or any other game with a fully voiced story...It's a completely different experience. Imagine playing every game today with 1980's text dialogue boxes instead of actual talking characters & npcs. Yea..... pay them folks. Should the programmers get residuals? Graphic artists? Perhaps you'll say yes, and that's fine, but the problem the voice actors have is that they are unknown, too easy to replace. I live in Texas, there is a strong non-union acting force here, you can hire a dozen non-union voice actors tomorrow here if you want to. No, it wouldn't be Jennifer Hale, and I do like her voice, but most people don't know or care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Seriously. If they represent so little work, then don't hire them and watch the market take the hit, when customers are surprised to see the complete lack of voice acting. Or... you know, there is a third option... but nope, everyone wants to see ONLY TWO CHOICES... Hire non-union voice actors... there are other places besides California to hire voice actors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galahard Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 You mean, stories with actual branching dialogue because money isn't being wasted on voice acting because 'reading is hard' for players now? Where I can sign up for these games instead all the development money being spent on Moisture Farmer Shaduuk babbling in looped 'alien' dialogue about needing someone to stop those evil pirates from stealing his water? There are several newish games like that from Obsidian, inExile and Beamdog, just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaze-Yama Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Get ready people, the musicians are next. I mean, the human voice wasn't designed to scream/sing lyrics all the time like that, so they're surely going to have to raise the prices of albums and concert tickets when they sue the labels for secondary expenses... So they turned down a 9% pay increase so that they could go on strike? From the article: So much for information that is private and can't be shared? That's more than I make a month on my disability. For 4 hours? How many of those sessions are they working a week, and they're worried about not being able to buy a house? Really? There's some greed at work here, alright, but I don't think it's game developers/publishers. I hope you realize most musicians don't have record labels and are selling CDs out of the back of a car and playing in small bars trying to make more money. The same is true for all types of artists. For the 1% that become very well known and wealthy there are thousands of other people who struggle every day for a variety of reasons and voice acting is no different. Knowing the hourly rate really tells you nothing cause they could spend all month auditioning trying to get parts and then end up spending 15 minutes doing one line for a commercial and making a couple hundred bucks. I mean in 4 hours you could record the dialogue for an entire game and then you start the process all over again. Unions don't exist to protect the well known people and the celebrities because they are famous enough to get by on their own. The only reason Jennifer Hale is mentioned is because she is one of the most famous voice actors and the strike wouldn't get publicized the same way if they had one of the hundred unknown actors doing work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 And it's not just about money... anyone who thinks that it's all some money issue is ignoring 90% of the dialogue about this. A big part of it is working conditions. Workers being asked to perform under conditions that are not safe for the long-term health of the human voice. And the workers can't say no? Are they slaves now? If they don't like the work, don't do it... I'm good to my employees, but if they ever show up to work and try and tell me "I'm going to doing my work differently now, sorry, you don't get a say", I'll reply "no worries, I'm not going to pay you any more then". The whole thing is stupid... the only employees who have any real power are those who are not replaceable. Tom Cruise gets $30 million a movie because people go see "Tom Cruise Movies". No one buys a game because Jennifer Hale voices it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Unions don't exist to protect the well known people and the celebrities because they are famous enough to get by on their own. The only reason Jennifer Hale is mentioned is because she is one of the most famous voice actors and the strike wouldn't get publicized the same way if they had one of the hundred unknown actors doing work. Jennifer Hale is attempting to use what fame she has to help others, I respect and admire her for that. Sadly, it is not likely to work, EA can simply farm voice work out to other places, there are too many people who can do it. It might be a jerk move, but if I was the head of EA, I'd simply let them all know "thanks for your help, sorry you don't want more work, best of luck to you". And that is an option, you can always fire the entire striking workforce (except these people don't work for EA, so no need to fire anyone) and hire replacement workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 And the workers can't say no? Are they slaves now? If they don't like the work, don't do it... I'm good to my employees, but if they ever show up to work and try and tell me "I'm going to doing my work differently now, sorry, you don't get a say", I'll reply "no worries, I'm not going to pay you any more then". The whole thing is stupid... the only employees who have any real power are those who are not replaceable. Tom Cruise gets $30 million a movie because people go see "Tom Cruise Movies". No one buys a game because Jennifer Hale voices it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire Totally different to what is being striked against now. I'm all for them deciding to strike if they want. I can even see why they may want a percentage, like actors do with films. However, in that case, what about the graphic designers? They're not always promised work after the completion of the game. Should they get a percentage too? The companies that are making the millions, I'd have to know. Are they turning it around to other projects (we hear about them going bankrupt often) or pocketing for themselves? Mix of the two? I'm sure the bosses/producers are getting way to much back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaze-Yama Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Jennifer Hale is attempting to use what fame she has to help others, I respect and admire her for that. Sadly, it is not likely to work, EA can simply farm voice work out to other places, there are too many people who can do it. It might be a jerk move, but if I was the head of EA, I'd simply let them all know "thanks for your help, sorry you don't want more work, best of luck to you". And that is an option, you can always fire the entire striking workforce (except these people don't work for EA, so no need to fire anyone) and hire replacement workers. Again that is the whole point of the union is power in numbers. I don't actually know how strong their union is but a few years back when the writer's guild went on strike the quality of several major television shows suffered and some even went on hiatus until it was resolved. Voice actors may not be as localized as part of the hollywood system I don't really know, but if you look at game credits you can see the same people appearing over and over for a reason. I doubt there is an abundance of talented people floating around who all want to be voice actors. Now for most games sure you can fill in with non union people to do random yelling but some are really not easily replaced. If the next Mass Effect has a different actress for FemShep I know that community of fans will not be happy. Also it is a question of cost and leverage for video game production time=money and delaying production is often times the worst thing that can happen. It might be worth it to shell out however much money it takes rather than have your AAA game miss its ship date because you had to re-record all the dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Again that is the whole point of the union is power in numbers. I don't actually know how strong their union is but a few years back when the writer's guild went on strike the quality of several major television shows suffered and some even went on hiatus until it was resolved. Voice actors may not be as localized as part of the hollywood system I don't really know, but if you look at game credits you can see the same people appearing over and over for a reason. I doubt there is an abundance of talented people floating around who all want to be voice actors. Now for most games sure you can fill in with non union people to do random yelling but some are really not easily replaced. If the next Mass Effect has a different actress for FemShep I know that community of fans will not be happy. Also it is a question of cost and leverage for video game production time=money and delaying production is often times the worst thing that can happen. It might be worth it to shell out however much money it takes rather than have your AAA game miss its ship date because you had to re-record all the dialogue. Those powers in numbers may have helped the writers, but what they didn't help were those who's shows got cancelled or shortened because of the strike. Yay writers! Forget about all those others who lost income because of the writers on strike. As for this one, no reason for customers to care really. They want their product and don't get the job that pays that much. They also won't care, when they complain about 15 a month for a game sub, so here's people making way more than them in 4 hours time, that they're making in a full week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Good VA work can make a game Legendary - Mass Effect is a good story, but when I think of why I love it, its the characters, and the VA work that powers them. By comparison, whenever I drop into Lotro, the VA work is minimal, and the same guy does a lot of the voices, sometimes hes two different characters talking to each other!!! It just doesnt work, and I keep thinking, "I miss SWOTORS VA". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts