Developer Live Stream = some hope

[JohnnyGunman]

I just want point out that, similar to the removal of WZ and OPS passes, the GSF 'passes' have been removed from the CM, which implies that prefs will no longer be able to play GSF.

 

Ok it doesn't necessarily imply that, but it's a pretty safe assumption. I don't have the actual statistics on what percentage of pilots are prefs, but if the game is becoming sub only, I think it's pretty clear that no queues are going to be popping, especially GSF.

[Deavastro]

GSF is has no weekly limit for f2p/pref.

 

Also while I don't agree with experienced players going easy on new pilots, do they have a responsibility to make it a more inviting game mode? For example the gsf aces are head and shoulders above their ground pvp counterparts in regards to trying to demean/embarrass the opposition(or maybe i just never met too many ***** of gsf). However is there more that can be done in terms of not turning off players after their first couple of games?

[Greezt]

Also while I don't agree with experienced players going easy on new pilots, do they have a responsibility to make it a more inviting game mode? For example the gsf aces are head and shoulders above their ground pvp counterparts in regards to trying to demean/embarrass the opposition(or maybe i just never met too many ***** of gsf). However is there more that can be done in terms of not turning off players after their first couple of games?

 

I wonder which server you fly on. I really do, no sarcasm here.

 

Take a look at these forums. You have an AMA thread 81 pages long and a year and a half old. You have a gearing thread stickied to the top (took just under a year for players of the time to achieve), a bunch of guides tailored to new players, and experienced players will literally jump on the opportunity to provide guidance to new players willing to try out the game. I mean, Despon went as far as to schedule regular GSF schools on different servers. There were more often than not as many vets (at least) as new players.

 

Yet you accuse GSFers of scaring players away.

 

It's understandable that players might have it rough in their first few times. The game is completely different from the ground game, and the skills required are those of an FPS much more than they are those of an MMO. But players who go into a match and expect to have it easy since it's their first time are simply wrong. No one owes it to them.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see a system that implements proper matchmaking and ranks players by their skill. It is unfair to new players to be pitted up with people who have thousands of games under their belts. However, this isn't for the community to regulate. It isn't because we don't get to decide where the line between playing nice and playing hard passes. See my previous reply for more detail on my opinion in the matter.

 

What would you do in order to keep fresh blood in the game?

[Deavastro]

Yet you accuse GSFers of scaring players away.

 

Jeezus, maybe I worded my post wrong, I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. In fact I was praising the gsf aces for contributing to making the gsf community much better than the ground pvp community.

 

I wonder which server you fly on. I really do, no sarcasm here.

 

Harb, mainly but I do fly around on other servers.

 

What would you do in order to keep fresh blood in the game?

 

I have no idea, thats why I posed my post in the form of a question. Obviously better matchmaking or a odessen style gsf map would alleviate faction balancing, thought it would just be a band-aid at best. The best idea I can think of would be implementing cross server so that gsf would have a decent enough population to have lowbie/midbie/endgame brackets. However those are stuff that devs should consider, I have no idea what more players can do to help retain new pilots.

[Greezt]

Jeezus, maybe I worded my post wrong, I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. In fact I was praising the gsf aces for contributing to making the gsf community much better than the ground pvp community.

 

No, you're right. My reading comprehension skills must be lacking, I completely misread your post.

 

I apologize.

[JohnnyGunman]

GSF is has no weekly limit for f2p/pref.

 

 

But f2p/pref could use a pass that increased requisition gains. Not that it was really worth paying for or anything, but the fact that it has been removed along with WZ and Ops passes could mean that f2p/pref will no longer have access to GSF, since it will be a GC activity.

 

It's not clear what they intend to do really, but I personally am worried.

[SeCKSEgai]

Oy, it almost amazes me how y'all are a really stubborn bunch, or simply put your blinders on to allow you to see just what you want to see.

 

Queue times get longer overall if they even pop - but because some of you happen to get a few pops in succession you choose to believe all is well.

 

GSF is considered the running joke of swtor and our saving grace is that its just largely ignored altogether like space missions.

 

Y'all had the opportunity to show all these dvl folks that GSF is actually fun and bolster the population - instead you chose to convince them just how bad a game mode it truly is. As an example a guildie of mine tried to bribe her son $50 to do her 5 matches - he refused. Let's face it, if it were as good as we'd like people to think it is, GSF would have grown much larger than it ever did.

 

Now I realize a lot of you don't pay attention to the game beyond GSF. But, just as GSF gets smaller :

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9092640#post9092640

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=896597

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=897634

 

And This one even mentions GSF

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9089073#post9089073

 

Suffice it to say, its highly likely to see an increase in population decline. My sub ends in a few days, and most of my guild has already been transitioning to other games to the point where people have completely lost interest in their regular raid teams. Now if you were paying attention, 5.0 changes affect all the community, whether its the raiding, solo play, casual and even the pvp and gsf communities.

 

 

Some of you want to keep this mindset:

 

There will always be the crowd of players who try to figure out tactics/builds on their own, and those are more likely to be the players that get frustrated and quit. I don't care about those people.

 

Another point is that players need to think about the type of players they attract to the game. I'd rather see real PvPers. By real, I mean players who play the competitive game for a win, not float around and demand a node for trying. Participation trophies are nice, but they end up fostering entitlement. If you think people who are given points for trying someday change and become people who play the endgame, I think you're wrong.

 

As for rewarding wins - the only way prevent stacking sides is an ELO. This won't happen in GSF.

 

We all know why an elo system will never happen as we all know there isn't nearly large enough of a community to justify it. Greezt says he wants real pvpers, but is it really pvp to crush some people who never stood a chance? If people really wanted better pvpers they wouldn't be so reluctant to make an effort to even teams. Siraka says he doesn't care about people who don't want to learn to get better, but who would he be shooting at if they didn't queue?

 

If entitlement is a thing, I'd say it's more on the part of the people who group up and expect that these outclassed pilots are more than happy to keep dying to you for your personal amusement. I think the worst case of entitlement is the expectation that strong opposition will magically form out of thin air - completely disregarding the fact that GSF has suffered major declines on even the most populated west coast server.

 

When people actually have some shot of winning, even if a long one they'll usually try. When people feel its nearly a guaranteed loss, they stop trying or suicide to make it end faster. In ground pvp people just leave instead of waste their time. GSF doesn't have that kind of luxury, we don't get continuous pops consistently, at least not anymore, and not frequent enough to pick and choose.

 

Now mind you, if GSF had a healthy population and was actually popular - I would be in complete agreement with Siraka's take. But that's never been the case.

 

Lastly - the command system only works for subs last I read - so f2p/pref aren't making progress towards gearing. That means you're likely to see more subs attempting gsf - but that's entirely dependent on how many subs 5.0 manages to retain.

[Greezt]

. Not all the games in that playlist are as close as they come (meaning competitive games between balanced teams). Some are more like competitive farming for sure. But take a look at the last two additions, as well as the TRE vs. SRW matches.

 

Not all players look for tight balanced matches for sure. Some just enjoy pissing over the weaker players and vanishing when the going gets tough, but claiming we all want that is ridiculous.

 

The point of this post is to prove that we do in fact try to balance matches, and whenever possible we try to shoot at each other. Not at random players who just queued up because they got the intro mission and decided to give it a shot. I don't speak for all players, of course. Maybe even some of those you can see in my recordings enjoy stomps for all I know, but at least they also took part in some serious organized competitive play.

 

I'm sure this comes off as elitism to some players, which is dumb too. Can't satisfy them by playing against them, can't satisfy them by not playing against them...

 

One last thing. I'm not sure what you want me to do to not crush new players. We both know that a strike is lethal enough against them. Would you like me to play with only blasters? Or without shields? I don't enjoy that kind of play. What would you have me do, exactly?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Greezt

[RickDagles]

Reiyn, how I am supposed to help out players who refuse to even put in the slightest effort to improve? By purposely playing poorly? That's not fun for me. If I have to do that, I'd rather just never fly.

 

FYI I constantly switch sides to try to even the teams up. The only time I don't do this is when SRW is trying to get some premade vs premade competition going. Sadly the only servers that seem interested in that lately are TRE and Progenitor.

Edited October 24, 2016 by RickDagles

[SeCKSEgai]

One last thing. I'm not sure what you want me to do to not crush new players. We both know that a strike is lethal enough against them. Would you like me to play with only blasters? Or without shields? I don't enjoy that kind of play. What would you have me do, exactly?

 

Reiyn, how I am supposed to help out players who refuse to even put in the slightest effort to improve? By purposely playing poorly? That's not fun for me. If I have to do that, I'd rather just never fly.

 

FYI I constantly switch sides to try to even the teams up. The only time I don't do this is when SRW is trying to get some premade vs premade competition going. Sadly the only servers that seem interested in that lately are TRE and Progenitor.

 

This game was neck and neck and the majority of kills were between me and Kantellos, his 18 and my 16. No one knew who would take it and I'm pretty sure it was decided by a DO pickup. (and no I was not grouped as usual)

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240236705284751370/Screenshot_2016-10-23_14_04_17_560033.jpg

 

Similar teams yet total blowout - this 50-11 game happened before the 47-43

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240237656347246592/Screenshot_2016-10-23_13_47_26_059178.jpg

 

Really close one - while team lacked in killing potential, look at the objective points

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240238602334765057/Screenshot_2016-10-22_19_28_46_016263.jpg

 

Despite going 19-11-1 Match was still 50-41

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240240452043800576/Screenshot_2016-10-21_16_32_38_868443.jpg

 

Blowout as a win

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240241102198800385/Screenshot_2016-10-22_19_11_10_536893.jpg

 

Blowout as a loss - notice players chastising each other at end

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208797692933963786/240241605355765760/Screenshot_2016-10-20_18_55_34_907866.jpg

 

Those are all recent.

I wanted to provide a visual example (assuming those links on discord stay live).

 

1- While I can accurately gauge team strengths at start most of the time, occasionally I am surprised, despite recognizing most of the players.

 

The blowout loss at the end I knew was a loss from the start so while I could have improved my performance, I chose not to so as to not spread the loss across several ships. As you can see by the numbers, the majority of the team was dying frequently before being able to deal any significant damage. I did my best to draw whoever I could away knowing most of the heavy hitters preferred blowing me up and they were eventually able to take a sat near the end, not that it really mattered. The game after that they tri capped and we didn't bother taking a sat in force out of sheer frustration - the new people can't help but be new, the experienced players can choose to still easily win without going to extremes.

 

2 - You can't control your teammates but you can control you. In the blowout win, you'll notice my objective score is dramatically higher than usual given I was not on a bomber. When it was clear we outclassed the other team, I could choose to fly a non-meta ship or choose to hold back. Even holding back and spending the majority of time at B I was still able to top the kill count. I could have gone for more but why? I took my scout only because my win rating has taken a beating. If the enemy team was struggling, why give them more reason not to queue, we all have enough of those as is.

 

3- Close matches push everyone harder. Notice in the close matches my scores are all in the double digits. I did not have to restrain myself to any degree, and it would be a disservice to my opponents regardless. Not only did my opponents play well, but I too was "forced" to do so. The newer pilots still played a vital role, as their decisions essentially decided who won. Aces are typically going to perform well regardless, but in the closest of matches even the greenest of pilots matters. These are the matches where the newer pilots are most likely to learn to fly better, as survival can be just as important as racking up that kill count.

 

4- It's true, you still want to avoid fostering entitlement. But again you have to be mindful of the opposition. If the team you're against is almost entirely starter ships, than as an experienced pilot you should know that they lack decent tools to clear a sat, and trying to clear a sat of both defenders and turrets can be nearly impossible. Leaving it undefended allows the newer pilots to learn how to take them.

 

However, that doesn't mean you can't apply pressure. You also want to help "train" them to learn to defend, not just cap and go.

 

The same goes for tdm - I believe one should never spawn camp, as they should at least have some breathing room after spawn to make a decision. HOWEVER, if they make no effort to leave and abuse this one reasonable concession than they simply forfeit it.

 

5 - Sometimes you just need go all out, even against easy prey - just do it sparingly.

[Greezt]

I don't entirely agree with you.

 

I don't like spawn camping, and I don't do it. I do 3-cap though. I also get 3-capped. I don't see it as something wrong. If anything, I see it as a mercy - I don't enjoy sitting in a match in which I clearly have no chance. To me, being given a pity node is nothing but condescending. I don't need it. I'd rather the match end and I get a new matchup, in which I might actually win.

 

People who believe in pity nodes should ask themselves this: do they also give free kills in TDM? Why not?

 

Other than this though, I think you're right. The thing is, in DOMs you can easily go AFK beneath a node while waiting for it to end (if you're on the stomping team). In TDM, it's not as easy. You can fly a troll build or a strike if you want, but you'll still probably rack up a whole bunch of kills and not a lot of deaths. The only thing you can truly do to prevent a stomp is not to play (by limiting yourself), and I can't stand behind that.

 

So in short, I don't see a solution to the problem, except for what has been happening on TRE lately - people who group up and sync queues in hopes of being matched up against one another. It's definitely not a perfect solution, but it's the best I can think of.

 

I hope this catches on to different servers.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Greezt

[SeCKSEgai]

The only thing you can truly do to prevent a stomp is not to play (by limiting yourself), and I can't stand behind that.

 

So in short, I don't see a solution to the problem, except for what has been happening on TRE lately - people who group up and sync queues in hopes of being matched up against one another. It's definitely not a perfect solution, but it's the best I can think of.

 

 

That's kind of the whole point - either learn restraint or have no one left to play with. Queue synch only works if you have enough pilots - again whole point is lack of them.

 

For example, several matches I had yesterday was lost from the start and my choices were to simply leave or avoid combat. I'd test how long people would chase and maybe take a few turrets but the team was so outclassed I watched all these newer pilots just blow up before they were ever even in range to do much.

 

You could say i could have gotten on a gunship - but at the same time I've already eaten plenty of losses running the gunship trying to help these outclassed teams have a fighting chance.

 

The reality is that while I do see some people make an effort to be considerate of stacked teams, most people aren't. I've been trying to make the community aware ever since the population decline became noticeable, but so many of you refuse. I'm betting its going to get dramatically worse with 5.0 - it was enough to get me and most of my guild to stop caring and confirmed my reasoning for not resubbing. While it is still in an "early" state, having been invited to the PTS and testing first hand.... there's nothing to really look forward to except essentially the same thing we've been doing.

 

On that note, I'm looking forward to leaving and no longer feeling the frustration of waiting ages for a pop just to enter a match so overly one-sided it can't be won.

[Lendul]

I don't entirely agree with you.

 

I don't like spawn camping, and I don't do it. I do 3-cap though. I also get 3-capped. I don't see it as something wrong. If anything, I see it as a mercy - I don't enjoy sitting in a match in which I clearly have no chance. To me, being given a pity node is nothing but condescending. I don't need it. I'd rather the match end and I get a new matchup, in which I might actually win.

 

People who believe in pity nodes should ask themselves this: do they also give free kills in TDM? Why not?

 

Other than this though, I think you're right. The thing is, in DOMs you can easily go AFK beneath a node while waiting for it to end (if you're on the stomping team). In TDM, it's not as easy. You can fly a troll build or a strike if you want, but you'll still probably rack up a whole bunch of kills and not a lot of deaths. The only thing you can truly do to prevent a stomp is not to play (by limiting yourself), and I can't stand behind that.

 

So in short, I don't see a solution to the problem, except for what has been happening on TRE lately - people who group up and sync queues in hopes of being matched up against one another. It's definitely not a perfect solution, but it's the best I can think of.

 

I hope this catches on to different servers.

 

Notice the difference of when mercy is being adamantly opposed and when the brain was allowed to process it. The thing about compassion and mercy is it considers the other person first. Does this make you a bad person? Not necessarily, but it is definitely more possible that you are.

 

The pronoun change to a less personal one when speaking about mercy and restraint also indicates that you struggle to identify yourself with it.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Lendul

[Greezt]

On that note, I'm looking forward to leaving and no longer feeling the frustration of waiting ages for a pop just to enter a match so overly one-sided it can't be won.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've left us, I truly am. While I don't agree with all your opinions, I respect you for staying true to your principles and I'd like you to know that. I still believe a change to GSF might come - either through a resurgence in popularity or through active player changes. I've seen it on TRE, and I'd like to think it could happen even on Harbinger.

 

You are frustrated with the GSF community, and I can understand that. I don't set foot on Harbinger these days because I find it impossible to get balanced matches there, and I won't say that's the only server that has the problem. All of them have it to some kind of degree. Even though you are no longer a sub, I'll still extend the invitation (and plug my hometown). Come to TRE. We sometimes have balanced matches.

 

However, it seems that you're done with GSF. Farewell, and if you find a good replacement please let me know.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Notice the difference of when mercy is being adamantly opposed and when the brain was allowed to process it. The thing about compassion and mercy is it considers the other person first. Does this make you a bad person? Not necessarily, but it is definitely more possible that you are.

 

The pronoun change to a less personal one when speaking about mercy and restraint also indicates that you struggle to identify yourself with it.

 

I don't understand.

 

You think I don't identify with the pain of my opponents, when I specifically say that to me it is more painful to prolong a lost match than to be given a pity node? Where is my compassion lacking? And how does this make me bad?

 

I don't struggle to identify with it. I just don't agree with it. Very different matters.

[Krixarcs]

every time one of these neck beards says gsf you all get you panties in a bunch. chill nothing will ever happen. The King has spoken.

[nvlvbiomedical]

 

On that note, I'm looking forward to leaving and no longer feeling the frustration of waiting ages for a pop just to enter a match so overly one-sided it can't be won.

 

 

 

This is very sad for me to hear not only cuz I think you're cool but also I respect you and I know I personally can sympathize with you I've been either fighting a wall of ace pilots or flying around maps aimlessly and bored while my team decimates the opposing side I think though that there are ways that we as players could balance the queue :[ but yeah it's hard especially with the plethora of jerks on harbinger who love to always queue with their friends, who just happen to all be ace pilots lol :\ there's just no good reason for it

 

I wish it didn't come to this is sad for me to see someone leave out of simple frustration over something that frustrates me in the exact same ways :[ makes me figure I won't be around too much longer :/ but who knows

 

GL to you :b you one of the few true aces on harbinger

Edited October 30, 2016 by nvlvbiomedical

[caederon]

... the plethora of jerks on harbinger who love to always queue with their friends

SWTOR is an MMORPG. A great many people (perhaps the vast majority? Is it safe to assume that?) play Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs to play with other people. Those people are often their friends. The genre is designed expressly to facilitate people playing the game with their friends. Faulting them for doing so seems like getting mad at water for being wet.

 

For the TL;DR version, skip to the yellow bits.

 

GSF is a PvP space shooter stuck inside an MMORPG. Back when the decision was made to stick a PvP space shooter inside an MMORPG, the developers convinced the moneycounters that the Star Wars license meant that 'enough' of the people who were paying for an MMORPG would also enjoy a PvP space shooter. Star Wars! Of course they will! And the subset of MMORPG players that enjoy space shooters showed up... but it wasn't 'enough' even at its peak population to satisfy whatever internal metrics existed to measure success as defined by the moneycounters.

 

This lack of financial success led to the space-shooter-stuck-in-an-MMORPG (or SSSIAMMORPG for short) being abandoned before it was finished. It's been well documented that the 'stealth ship' class was fully designed and the art assets existed. Many odd and head-scratching parts of GSF make lots more sense in light of what had been planned.

 

So, the subset of MMORPG players who like space shooters and like (or will tolerate) PvP continued playing GSF for a long while despite the clear abandonment of any plans for further development. Some dwindled away, but there were plenty of matches to be had as the GSF community developed from server-specific groups of players to a decentralized mass of server hoppers who played a lot, everywhere. This cloud of roving pilots kept queues healthy by playing all the time. The 'aces' kept the game afloat in the face of abandonment through events, outreach, and their ubiquitous presence.

 

As time went on, though, and as no new content was added to GSF, and as bugs of large and small consequence came and went, and as developer indifference reached nearly antagonistic-to-the-players levels (see the Strike Fighter Suggestions thread) the cloud dissipated, little by little. Death by a thousand cuts is still death, and each departed ace left another small hole in the fuselage.

 

Those that remained always hoped that the population of SWTOR (an MMORPG) who dabbled or ignored GSF would just come around and see the light, that if only they were treated this way or that way, they would replenish the ranks of pilots and lift the game back to the time where there were always three concurrent matches running on Harbinger. At the same time, SWTOR itself continued to morph into a weirdly disconnected set of experiences split between single-player story content, raiding, ground PvP, strongholds, conquest, and GSF.

 

GSF never has had anything to do with any other part of the game, aside from the tangential benefits of earning XP and credits, achievements, and occasional conquest weeks.

 

The skills needed to play the MMORPG part of the game (which makes up nearly the entire bulk of the SWTOR experience) have nothing to do with GSF, and do nothing to prepare anyone for playing GSF. The people who fare best at GSF largely had a history of playing other space shooters/sims or even FPS games.

 

The vast majority of people who play SWTOR came to play a PvE MMORPG. They do not care that there is a PvP space shooter stuck in their MMORPG. Want to hear it in their own words? (taken from this thread) They will not replenish the subset of players in an MMORPG who like space shooters, because that is not the reason they are playing SWTOR. GSF is a foreign language to them, an uncomfortable place they neither understand nor care to. Nobody, especially now, will join SWTOR to play GSF.

 

When SWTOR's overall population was larger, the subset of 'MMORPG players who like space shooters and like or tolerate PvP' was larger, and we had plenty of matches. Now, new players joining SWTOR are likely doing so for a cinematic PvE single-player story experience that has an MMORPG wrapped around it and a PvP space shooter stuck inside it.

 

If they had truly thought about GSF succeeding and growing a player base, it would have had the following from the start:

• A custom match lobby allowing players to opt out of the 'randomly queue into slaughters' general pool, where they could pick teams, fly intra-guild practice matches, easily teach people the ropes. This would also have facilitated easily run 'ace' events that would not disrupt the general player pool.
  
• A non-disastrous tutorial with clear, easily found prompts for players to find it.
  
• Better plans for how to monetize GSF on the Cartel Market, given how useless and woeful nearly every Cartel GSF item is.
  
• More realistic assessment of how many players they could attract to avoid having to abandon development when the population peaked.
  

 

The 'aces' did not destroy GSF; their absence has left it a gutted, hollowed-out shell of a game that rotted due to publisher negligence.

 

With whole severs now bereft of competitive pilots, any 16 adventuresome folks have an empty playground to enjoy ace-free space combat. Will they? That's all it'd take, a little more than a dozen people to queue up for uninterrupted matches. Or has that subset of 'MMOPRG players who like space shooters and like or tolerate PvP' gone to find something more to their taste, since the market is suddenly full of various spacey flavors?

 

If you like GSF, and you want to play it, find fifteen other people on your server who are similarly interested, organize things a little, and queue up. Don't bash people who actually care enough to keep playing. They're the only reason there is still a game left at all.

 

- Despon

Edited October 30, 2016 by caederon

[RickDagles]

Well said Despon.

 

The same old arguments have been going on in GSF for the past 2 years. No amount of bickering or name calling is going to change the fact that people have different opinions on the issues. I wish there was a sticky post that outlined them so that we wouldn't have to keep repeating the same things over and over.

 

 

1. "Spawn Camping" in TDM - some say it's unfair and unsportsmanlike, others explain that it's the only true way for scouts to counter gunship/bomber balls before they can set up. Also there are 3 spawn points so why not pick the one that isn't being camped?

 

2. Gunship + Bomber ball in TDM - some say it's unfair and ruins the fun of the game, others explain how it's fun to play because it makes it a lot easier to have strong teamwork. Ironically the people who complain about (1) also complain about (2).

 

3. Flying in premades - some say it's unfair and it's killing the queue, others explain how they enjoy playing the game with friends, flying with coordination/teamwork, and avoid missing pops.

 

4. Bomber spam and bomber ticking in DOM - some players say this is "lame" or "cheap" while other players explain that it is easily countered with ion AoE and some BLC scouts and just a little bit of coordination/teamwork. Ironically the people that complain about (3) also complain about (4).

 

5. Three capping in DOM - some say it's unsportsmanlike and prevents the other side from getting ship requisition, others say they would never want a pity satellite and they would rather the game end sooner so they can move on. Taking it even further, some people believe you actually give the other team more of a chance to gain requisition if you spread your 8 players across defending 3 satellites (2.6 players per sat) instead of 8 players defending 2 satellites (4 players per sat).

 

 

People are going to disagree on these 5 issues. If you can understand and accept that, it will result in a lot less tears and wasted arguments. You are not going to change my opinions and I am going to continue to play the way I want.

Edited October 31, 2016 by RickDagles

[Deavastro]

Well said Despon.

 

The same old arguments have been going on in GSF for the past 2 years. No amount of bickering or name calling is going to change the fact that people have different opinions on the issues. I wish there was a sticky post that outlined them so that we wouldn't have to keep repeating the same things over and over.

 

 

1. "Spawn Camping" in TDM - some say it's unfair and unsportsmanlike, others explain that it's the only true way for scouts to counter gunship/bomber balls before they can set up. Also there are 3 spawn points so why not pick the one that isn't being camped?

 

2. Gunship + Bomber ball in TDM - some say it's unfair and ruins the fun of the game, others explain how it's fun to play because it makes it a lot easier to have strong teamwork. Ironically the people who complain about (1) also complain about (2).

 

3. Flying in premades - some say it's unfair and it's killing the queue, others explain how they enjoy playing the game with friends, flying with coordination/teamwork, and avoid missing pops.

 

4. Bomber spam and bomber ticking in DOM - some players say this is "lame" or "cheap" while other players explain that it is easily countered with ion AoE and some BLC scouts and just a little bit of coordination/teamwork. Ironically the people that complain about (3) also complain about (4).

 

5. Three capping in DOM - some say it's unsportsmanlike and prevents the other side from getting ship requisition, others say they would never want a pity satellite and they would rather the game end sooner so they can move on. Taking it even further, some people believe you actually give the other team more of a chance to gain requisition if you spread your 8 players across defending 3 satellites (2.6 players per sat) instead of 8 players defending 2 satellites (4 players per sat).

 

 

People are going to disagree on these 5 issues. If you can understand and accept that, it will result in a lot less tears and wasted arguments. You are not going to change my opinions and I am going to continue to play the way I want.

 

Question, If you are in a match against team composed of 50% or more new pilots (2 ships on bar/ known new pilots) do you think you should employ methods 1,2,4?

As for 5, I am of the opinion if its a comfortable 3 cap win (1000 - <100 scoreboard type match) you should leave A and C unguarded, let them cap and then *****slap them hard to cap it back.

3) One premade can be bad(depending on individual skill level) but hardly a queue killer in an of itself, even if it were I would not want them to split up just so I could win a match. A preamde in a stacked faction (or simply just a stacked faction) such that every match is around 7-8 veteran pilots vs 1-2 veteran pilots? maybe then someone should switch.

[Lendul]

Well said Despon.

 

The same old arguments have been going on in GSF for the past 2 years. No amount of bickering or name calling is going to change the fact that people have different opinions on the issues. I wish there was a sticky post that outlined them so that we wouldn't have to keep repeating the same things over and over.

 

 

1. "Spawn Camping" in TDM - some say it's unfair and unsportsmanlike, others explain that it's the only true way for scouts to counter gunship/bomber balls before they can set up. Also there are 3 spawn points so why not pick the one that isn't being camped?

 

2. Gunship + Bomber ball in TDM - some say it's unfair and ruins the fun of the game, others explain how it's fun to play because it makes it a lot easier to have strong teamwork. Ironically the people who complain about (1) also complain about (2).

 

3. Flying in premades - some say it's unfair and it's killing the queue, others explain how they enjoy playing the game with friends, flying with coordination/teamwork, and avoid missing pops.

 

4. Bomber spam and bomber ticking in DOM - some players say this is "lame" or "cheap" while other players explain that it is easily countered with ion AoE and some BLC scouts and just a little bit of coordination/teamwork. Ironically the people that complain about (3) also complain about (4).

 

5. Three capping in DOM - some say it's unsportsmanlike and prevents the other side from getting ship requisition, others say they would never want a pity satellite and they would rather the game end sooner so they can move on. Taking it even further, some people believe you actually give the other team more of a chance to gain requisition if you spread your 8 players across defending 3 satellites (2.6 players per sat) instead of 8 players defending 2 satellites (4 players per sat).

 

 

People are going to disagree on these 5 issues. If you can understand and accept that, it will result in a lot less tears and wasted arguments. You are not going to change my opinions and I am going to continue to play the way I want.

 

One thing though. The point about premades killing queues is not an opinion it's a fact. In point #3 you even show this. The retort to the premise is "but me likey".

[Krixarcs]

One thing though. The point about premades killing queues is not an opinion it's a fact. In point #3 you even show this. The retort to the premise is "but me likey".

 

TBH get some friends like me and Dixarcs. problem solved and the KING has spoken.

[nvlvbiomedical]

TBH get some friends like me and Dixarcs. problem solved and the KING has spoken.

 

But I pwn both of you o.O

[Greezt]

Question, If you are in a match against team composed of 50% or more new pilots (2 ships on bar/ known new pilots) do you think you should employ methods 1,2,4?

As for 5, I am of the opinion if its a comfortable 3 cap win (1000 - <100 scoreboard type match) you should leave A and C unguarded, let them cap and then *****slap them hard to cap it back.

3) One premade can be bad(depending on individual skill level) but hardly a queue killer in an of itself, even if it were I would not want them to split up just so I could win a match. A preamde in a stacked faction (or simply just a stacked faction) such that every match is around 7-8 veteran pilots vs 1-2 veteran pilots? maybe then someone should switch.

 

I am of the opinion that you shouldn't change your gameplay. I'm all for swapping to less serious ships (if you enjoy flying them) but that's it. If you're flying against serious opposition, will you try to 3-cap? Of course you will. In any case, I think I've made my own opinion on the subject quite clear.

 

As for switching, allow me to answer for Siraka (and hopefully he's ok with that). He is of the opinion that matches should be balanced. I know this, because I've been grouped with him and had him leave my group and hop to the other faction in order to balance things up. Once even leaving a match and backfilling on the other team. You don't see many people who do that...

[caederon]

One thing though. The point about premades killing queues is not an opinion it's a fact. In point #3 you even show this. The retort to the premise is "but me likey".

Once again, you condescendingly manage to lay bare you antagonism towards anyone who is actually skilled at the game and who dares to engage in a multiplayer component of an MMORPG that facilitates grouping.

 

Let's ignore the fact that for veteran players with many thousands of games under their belt, the system will queue-skip them if they do not group. So, to clarify, the people who want to frequently queue and play a lot have to waste enormous amounts of time not playing if they fly solo, because the matching system is designed to overlook them. Once again, drilling it down even simpler for you: the system prevents the very people who keep the queue healthy from keeping the queue healthy if they do not group. Oh, I guess I didn't ignore that fact at all, because it is really very important.

 

I can't believe I even have to type this stuff because it's plainly evident:

• Anyone can form a 'premade,' there is no barrier to entry or requirement.
  
• There are significant advantages to doing so, and discouraging people from that or demonizing it is only hurting what is left of the player base.
  
• GSF is a team game, and at the lowest levels of play, nothing would help a player more than grouping up with their friends, learning to coordinate, and playing with objectives in mind on a team level.
  

 

If people choose to fly solo, that is a valid way to play with its own risks and rewards, but so is flying with your friends! It is a multiplayer game, it is a social environment, and the gameplay of the mode in question, GSF, rewards coordination and team play.

 

State your complaint clearly and honestly. You aren't complaining about premades, you're complaining that groups of skilled pilots want to fly together, and when they do, you can't cope with it. You could choose to group with skilled players and work to build your own skills to counter this, but you would rather attack the people who -have every right to play the game in a way that they enjoy- instead.

 

I have long been on record, even in this thread, advocating the proper solution to all of this. A custom match lobby would fix the whole problem, as anyone who can't cope with flying against groups of good players would then have configurable private matches available in which to fly against whomever they invite. Common practice from the dawn of the internet would fix this problem.

 

In the absence of that sensible fix, you should be encouraging new pilots to group up, make 'premades,' learn team tactics, fly with the objectives in mind, and not attempt to be a lone-wolf superhero until they have the understanding of the game and foundation of skills to pull that off.

 

- Despon

[TBDNicodemus]

When I first got into GSF I was all about watching the top ranks, seeing what they are using, asking them questions, now, I have people I que with, and I'm normally above 50% accuracy with more then 14 K/A