Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[IanArgent]

Crafting will fill-in the blanks pretty quickly, and if the crafted pieces aren't tied in Command Level to use them, then grinding the Command Levels becomes fairly mute... jumping a person to "not quite perfect, but usable" comes down to "do we have the parts in the guildbank."

 

That (bolded) would be another RNG mitigation method. If they do that.

[PlasmaJohn]

Crafting will fill-in the blanks pretty quickly, and if the crafted pieces aren't tied in Command Level to use them, then grinding the Command Levels becomes fairly mute... jumping a person to "not quite perfect, but usable" comes down to "do we have the parts in the guildbank."

Nice try. Story mode raids and pvp regs will pretty much unaffected but set bonuses are critical to downing harder content.

 

Even for the parts that crafting can cover since the rarity of mats is going to be stupid, so will the prices.

[Kingsbount]

the more I think it will NOT kill raiding.

 

It will.

What's the point to perfom harcore content if you can get BiS gear without doing it. Yes, it will take longer. But you are not gonna suffer from noobish teammates. there will be no wipefests.

Team work? PFHHHTH!!! Who need those noobs now

 

Im sorry, are you saying that new system will NOT kill raiding?

I agree. It will not kill it.

It will simply erase it from the game.

[Jadescythe]

Nice try. Story mode raids and pvp regs will pretty much unaffected but set bonuses are critical to downing harder content.

 

Even for the parts that crafting can cover since the rarity of mats is going to be stupid, so will the prices.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't PvP at a very high level. Set bonuses are extremely important for PvP because they supply a lot of the burst potential DPS have.

[Tsillah]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't PvP at a very high level. Set bonuses are extremely important for PvP because they supply a lot of the burst potential DPS have.

 

Could it be that he means unranked with pvp regs?

[kissingaiur]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't PvP at a very high level. Set bonuses are extremely important for PvP because they supply a lot of the burst potential DPS have.

 

I agree. Set bonues in PvP is what balances classes... imagine for example if Operatives healers didn't have their crit proc for Kolto Injection... Our burst is already ****, this set bonus buff at least makes it bearable. Set bonuses are a HUGE deal in PvP; especially those who play ranked pvp. Anyone who argues against it is just uneducated in PvP content and/or ever played PvP competitively in SWTOR.

[CountryGentleman]

I PVP in this game, almost exclusively. PVE is very boring to me.

 

I've read all Bioware posts in this thread, and this is what it looks like to me:

 

Currently, a person can get to max level PVP gear in a very short time period, with only PVP after level 10. Maybe 20 hours of winning Warzones back to back, I would guess off of the top of my head.

 

It looks like the change would make that at least 2 months of having no job and grinding PVE or PVP to get to max level PVP gear and get competitive in PVP.

 

I've subscribed for 4 or 5 years now. I've started a guild that has conquered 40% of the galaxy. I'm a Manhunter, etc. I don't believe that I have ever posted on the forums, especially to complain. But, I chose PVP in this game over a game like WOW because WOW seemed to require me to grind ridiculously boring PVE before I could PVP competitively. I see no redeeming features of SWTOR that makes it different, now.

 

So, here is the deal: Either Bioware or a company representative responds to me about why I am wrong about what I posted above within 18 hours, about a required 2 month full-time grind to get to max PVP gear, or I unsubscribe immediately. I am not going to whine for 2 months and keep paying you while waiting for you to wreck the game. I don't know how many members of my guild will leave, but if they don't, they will have to find new leadership.

 

Time is up. I've unsubscribed.

 

Thank you, game makers, for a great deal of fun for the last 4 or 5 years. I think that people having fun in such relatively innocuous ways is a beautiful thing.

 

I hope that many other of my fellow humans have fun with games (even this one, if they like it) in the future. This one is not my cup of tea, now, though.

[gabigool]

I'll tell you exactly why: Because another thing that absolutely could happen is that you're fully geared in the same amount of time.

 

Well that will certainly help the players for whom it doesn't happen.

 

 

 

I'm going to put this to bed right now:

 

Hey, all you people complaining about the "grind"? Call me when it takes you 4 years to get one piece of gear you need. Because until then, all you're doing is whining about change.

 

Why I say this: In Rappelz, you have a pet system. These pets aren't the deco things that follow you around, swelling your epeen because you have more random junk collected than the next guy, they actually fight alongside you, some better than others. I went after a very specific pet for one of my pet classes. It took me 4 years of farming and taming to finally get one.

 

First, you have to farm the card, which is hard enough, with a 0.01% chance of getting it. Then you have to attempt the tame, which had a slightly better chance of about 1.0%. Don't fail that tame, because if you do, the card is destroyed, and you have to start over. So, you can talk to me about "grind" once you fully understand what it means. Because this system? It's not even close. I farmed the same, and I guess it's closer to a FP, since it was a 4 man "raid" in Aion for 4 months and never got my bow. That's right, 4 months, and never got the one piece of gear I needed. The only place it dropped was that raid, and it was BoP, so you couldn't buy it off the GTN equivalent there. Talk to me about grind when you're 4 months in and don't have your first piece.

 

Guess what, I'm thinking that that's not going to happen here. For one thing, you could potentially pull that gear from any content, and everyone in the content with you will also get a crate, as opposed to only one piece of gear dropping per run, with the only limitation being your rank, and whatever the weekly cap is going to be. But even with this, I'm betting right now that nothing here is going to compare to the definitions I have already provided for "grind".

 

By this logic, America has two fantastic presidential candidates since neither of them is Kim Jong Un.

Edited October 20, 2016 by gabigool

[Sareeph]

I'll tell you exactly why: Because another thing that absolutely could happen is that you're fully geared in the same amount of time.

 

 

 

I'm going to put this to bed right now:

 

Hey, all you people complaining about the "grind"? Call me when it takes you 4 years to get one piece of gear you need. Because until then, all you're doing is whining about change.QUOTE]

 

Okay fine. Back in WoW Vanilla, the belt and bracers dropped off of trash in MC using a rng. Our guild ran that thing for 2 years, yes 2 years, and it dropped the belt for the Paly one time in that time. That is what can happen with rng. You put nothing to bed. People have experienced what you claim in your post using rng. I never want to have to go through that again and will not.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Sareeph

[PlasmaJohn]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you don't PvP at a very high level. Set bonuses are extremely important for PvP because they supply a lot of the burst potential DPS have.

 

I did mean unranked as Tsillah pointed out. I know the value for Ops, good to have the PvP perspective. My point was that set bonuses are a critically important factor to higher level content. Crafting cannot mitigate the RNG hell that Austin has announced.

[Wayshuba]

Nice try. Story mode raids and pvp regs will pretty much unaffected but set bonuses are critical to downing harder content.

 

Even for the parts that crafting can cover since the rarity of mats is going to be stupid, so will the prices.

 

This - crafting will not fill in the blanks. As it is you will get one Void Matter Catalyst PER RAID. That means one piece of crafted equipment per raid (not including all the other ridiculous mat requirements) instead of the five you can get today. In three raids today a new member can be fully geared in 216 set gear - ready to take on the higher content. To craft even close to that requires 14 raids (for 14 catalysts) and a god-awful amount of other mats just to put them in equivalent "non set" gear. Not to mention, with the removal of the crystals, they can't even get that basic gear any other way. The other thing is we can take a level 60 member to do this today and they have the gear (and usually the levels) to have this right at level 65. The new system doesn't even allow to start on this until level 70 so even that is out the window.

 

Secondly, for those who say it won't explain what your guild does when new, under geared members, need to be rapidly geared up to run with the already fully geared members? And what will they do with an RNG system that doesn't even start until level 70?

 

As for PvP, ranked or unranked, it is going to kill it. Maybe I am different but in leveling my alts I also do a lot of PvP. By the time I hit 65, I almost always have enough comms to get the full 208 set right away. Sometimes I need a few more for a stray earpiece or implant, but at least even those slots are 204 right at 65. With this new system, someone who has grinded 100 command levels will most likely be in full 244 set gear while my new Level 70 toon might be in 228 non set gear. So I guess I am going to have to just suck it up and get whaled on for 80 or 90 CxP levels before I can enjoy another toon in high level PvP.

 

No way around it, this system they are proposing is going to mess up raiding and PvP BIG TIME!!!

Edited October 20, 2016 by Wayshuba

[Jadescythe]

I did mean unranked as Tsillah pointed out. I know the value for Ops, good to have the PvP perspective. My point was that set bonuses are a critically important factor to higher level content. Crafting cannot mitigate the RNG hell that Austin has announced.

 

You're not wrong about high level content, but literally all PvP relies on it. Even in regs, it's difficult to kill players through heals and guard without burst and set bonuses help with that tremendously.

[casirabit]

I am going to approach the pvp gear from my point of view, doesn't mean I am right just a different point of view.

 

Sometimes they put things behind pvp, like companions, the event, and some people that haven't done pvp needs to do it to get the item or the achievement for the event or the companion but sometimes they don't have the gear for pvp and when they enter a warzone most of the time they are told they need to leave until they get the gear.

 

Maybe this will help those people instead of always being told to leave when they are only there for a little while to get something they want to get .

[Jadescythe]

I am going to approach the pvp gear from my point of view, doesn't mean I am right just a different point of view.

 

Sometimes they put things behind pvp, like companions, the event, and some people that haven't done pvp needs to do it to get the item or the achievement for the event or the companion but sometimes they don't have the gear for pvp and when they enter a warzone most of the time they are told they need to leave until they get the gear.

 

Maybe this will help those people instead of always being told to leave when they are only there for a little while to get something they want to get .

 

Not what I would say to someone because everyone is welcome, but no matter what gear you have, you're still horrible at PvP. Most players who don't PvP couldn't kill me if I didn't have gear on. And overall, I think you're correct that players who don't frequently PvP will be in a better situation when they do participate. Removing expertise isn't a problem, but relying on RNG to determine who has better gear is a major problem when there is no easy way to get the "introductory" set, even if expertise is removed.

[IanArgent]

One note about the rate of CXP gain. For subscribers, it's all but certain, if they start character in the vanilla story, they'll be at 70 before hitting Ilum; so they can start earning CXP in the Ilum FPs and the SoR flashpoints in solo mode, and the chapters of KotFE and KotET. It's possible for them to be 70 before being guided to the vanilla Revan FP factional pairs (Taral V/Boarding Party and Maelstrom Prison/The Foundry). Not to mention any optional activities participated in along the way, as well as the planetary heroics, etc.

 

Assuming characters can earn CXP without completing KotET... Today you can enter end-game activities without any other qualification than reaching max level.

 

This does not help characters who do not do story, for whatever reason.

 

(I had to really work at it, but I did hit L65 before leaving Dromund Kaas with one DvL character)

Edited October 20, 2016 by IanArgent

[Wayshuba]

I am going to approach the pvp gear from my point of view, doesn't mean I am right just a different point of view.

 

Sometimes they put things behind pvp, like companions, the event, and some people that haven't done pvp needs to do it to get the item or the achievement for the event or the companion but sometimes they don't have the gear for pvp and when they enter a warzone most of the time they are told they need to leave until they get the gear.

 

Maybe this will help those people instead of always being told to leave when they are only there for a little while to get something they want to get .

 

The way to fix this is to not put something in PvE (like a companion) that requires PvP. PvP should stay as something that those of us who like to play it can do it. Forcing PvP on non-PvP players is just stupid.

[Jadescythe]

The way to fix this is to not put something in PvE (like a companion) that requires PvP. PvP should stay as something that those of us who like to play it can do it. Forcing PvP on non-PvP players is just stupid.

 

This pretty just comes down to someone's opinion and will only throw the thread off track. Not to mention it has been discussed at length elsewhere if you want to bring it up again.

[Kajuratus]

The greedy need that OPSers should have the best things in every game update is beyond me

 

LOL, why do you equate best things to end game gear? Surely the best part of this game is the story right? So where does gear come into play in this? Hell, this is just my opinion, and I'm honestly not too bothered by the changes that will allow you non raiders to get the BIS end game gear, but WHY do you want it? How much enjoyment will you get out of it? I'm honestly curious.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Kajuratus

[MRSHRUIKAN]

Hey folks,

 

One of the things we talked a bit about on the stream is that there are gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. This thread is meant to give you a few more details on some of the things that will be happening in KOTET, along with being a place that I can address questions or concerns you have with these changes. First, here are the details on how gearing will work at level 70:

• Once you hit level 70, the source of end-game gear will be Command Crates from Galactic Command.
  
• Most activities in the game will earn Command Experience Points (CXP), which will earn you Command Ranks. Each time your Command Rank increases, you earn a Command Crate.
  
• The higher your Command Rank, the better gear that will drop from your Command Crates.
  
• The highest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Warzones are intended to be the fastest ways to earn CXP. This means they are the fastest way to get the best gear.
  
• Both PvP and PvE gear will come from Command Crates. Their gear is now shared as Expertise is being removed (head to this thread to discuss PvP/PvE itemization specifically).
  
• Gear will no longer drop from bosses as all gear will come from Command Crates. All cosmetic/unique drops will still remain on those bosses (Stronghold Decorations, Wings of the Architect, etc.).
  
• Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.
  

That should cover most of the basic changes coming to itemization in KOTET. I know this is a lot to take in, so please ask any questions you may have in this thread and I will work to answer what I can!

 

-eric

 

5 more lvl's with no new operations or new wz's, but.. With new gear.. yay!!.. loool

y.. Now I found a reason to grind for gear and lvl up 5 lvl's..

Ty for the upcoming break from swtor..

[robertthebard]

Well that will certainly help the players for whom it doesn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

By this logic, America has two fantastic presidential candidates since neither of them is Kim Jong Un.

 

No, by this logic, people complaining about an extra x "because it's going to be a grind" need to wake up. IF they had made it so only one person per raid group got a drop, and IF there were no controls on what can drop from a crate, people might be closer to the truth. Nothing in the provided information has indicated that either of these will be the case, in fact, exactly the opposite of both. That's the problem with drinking the Kool-Aid though, once you've started being a sheep, and following the herd, it's hard to break away from it.

 

As I said though, let me know if it takes you any where near 4 months, or 4 years, to complete your gear set, assuming you don't just quit for either amount of time and do it in a week, anyway. That would be the next logical step, yes?

[Jadescythe]

No, by this logic, people complaining about an extra x "because it's going to be a grind" need to wake up. IF they had made it so only one person per raid group got a drop, and IF there were no controls on what can drop from a crate, people might be closer to the truth. Nothing in the provided information has indicated that either of these will be the case, in fact, exactly the opposite of both. That's the problem with drinking the Kool-Aid though, once you've started being a sheep, and following the herd, it's hard to break away from it.

 

As I said though, let me know if it takes you any where near 4 months, or 4 years, to complete your gear set, assuming you don't just quit for either amount of time and do it in a week, anyway. That would be the next logical step, yes?

 

I mean, I'm seeing estimates anywhere from 50-125 crates needed assuming you get a piece of the highest tier gear in every crate to fill 14 slots with set bonus. And presumably you'd need to grind up to, or close to, max level for galactic command before you start even getting those items in crates.

 

So, I'd say 4 months could be accurate depending.

[Tanitha]

No, by this logic, people complaining about an extra x "because it's going to be a grind" need to wake up. IF they had made it so only one person per raid group got a drop, and IF there were no controls on what can drop from a crate, people might be closer to the truth. Nothing in the provided information has indicated that either of these will be the case, in fact, exactly the opposite of both. That's the problem with drinking the Kool-Aid though, once you've started being a sheep, and following the herd, it's hard to break away from it.

 

As I said though, let me know if it takes you any where near 4 months, or 4 years, to complete your gear set, assuming you don't just quit for either amount of time and do it in a week, anyway. That would be the next logical step, yes?

 

Eric said in his post that the drops are random. So for example, on my PT dps, I ONLY need chest or head for my 6 set bonus. Since PT is a dual spec, and they confirmed that 1. drops are random. 2. It is based on advanced class and not discipline 3. Taking into account the various relics, earpieces and implants, how long do you think it will take for the DPS chest or head to drop? The chances are around to 1/26 (since I need one of 2 pieces). instead of running the op with my guildies and be guaranteed that piece. Add the random, that I may get the armor/head for tanks and not dps which is useless, or that I cna end up opening 100 crates and not get the specific piece of gear I need... It depends on RNG.

[Psychopyro]

I mean, I'm seeing estimates anywhere from 50-125 crates needed assuming you get a piece of the highest tier gear in every crate to fill 14 slots with set bonus. And presumably you'd need to grind up to, or close to, max level for galactic command before you start even getting those items in crates.

 

So, I'd say 4 months could be accurate depending.

 

YEs, I totally expect this to be the grind leading up to the next grind... I expect that you won't be able to get top tier gear until you hit the CXP cap...

[Khevar]

No, by this logic, people complaining about an extra x "because it's going to be a grind" need to wake up.

See, the interesting thing is that SWTOR, throughout it's history, has made improvements to the way RNG affects character progression. In such a way that (in my personal opinion) is better than other MMOs.

 

Even setting aside the Battlemaster Bags, remember when "gear tokens" were added to the game? You went from two levels of RNG (did gear drop for my class? did I win the drop?) to one level of RNG (did I win the drop), and a "bad RNG" mitigation mechanism (here are commendations that let you buy gear of your choice (slightly worse)).

 

The player, while being affected by the RNG design of the game, could exert control over their experience (I need a mainhand so I'm going to focus on these bosses), and also had more choices and options (I can spend this token I won on my tank to gear up my healer).

 

This new system is a step away from that.

 

And let's be honest, the RNG nature will have an even greater impact on the solo player than it would on the raider. Remember that he or she will spend longer amounts of time doing content producing fewer CXP, thereby receiving fewer crates.

 

If that player's luck lands on the right side of the RNG bell curve it surely would be frustrating.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Khevar

[robertthebard]

Eric said in his post that the drops are random. So for example, on my PT dps, I ONLY need chest or head for my 6 set bonus. Since PT is a dual spec, and they confirmed that 1. drops are random. 2. It is based on advanced class and not discipline 3. Taking into account the various relics, earpieces and implants, how long do you think it will take for the DPS chest or head to drop? The chances are around to 1/26 (since I need one of 2 pieces). instead of running the op with my guildies and be guaranteed that piece. Add the random, that I may get the armor/head for tanks and not dps which is useless, or that I cna end up opening 100 crates and not get the specific piece of gear I need... It depends on RNG.

 

Ok, so you're not getting healing gear, and, you're not the only one that will be getting gear in a raid. This is how it works in other games. One drop, from the entire table, instead of one drop for you, from your advanced class, with everyone else in the group getting the same. That's assuming one drop per crate. The current model for class stories drops 2 pieces of gear. So are they going with that, or the Alliance Crates type of drops. Nobody knows, but it's automatically the worst possible system ever, right?

 

All I'm saying is simply this: Anyone that thinks that this is going to be the grindiest system ever needs to go play a game that actually has grind to it. They'll be back here praising this system for what it is, not that bad, all things considered. It could have been much much worse.