SWTOR is too easy now!!!

[peter_plankskull]

continue the mechanism they had for the 12x XP event last summer, with that XP gain stopper? My usual argument against that kind of thing (QA load) would seem not to apply. Unless it breaks something else or is broken by something else that we're not aware of, I suppose.

 

They didn't think about putting it on the CM.

[IanArgent]

They didn't think about putting it on the CM.

 

There's plenty of QoL functionality that's not part of the CM.

 

Since this would be something mechanical primarily for subscribers' use, it wouldn't even be appropriate for the CM. The CM sells cosmetic items and unlocks for non-subscriber use (as exclusives, anyway - because some joker is going to bring up that you get comp gifts and jawa junk in packs - you can also get those without going to the CM; or that Treek is not purely cosmetic, and she's available without going to the CM as well).

 

I don't get the CM hate - the income stream saved the game, and the effort needed for it is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. An unstable lightsaber will not help you mechanically any more than any other orange lightsaber you pick up as treasure on the way.

[peter_plankskull]

I don't get the CM hate - the income stream saved the game, and the effort needed for it is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. An unstable lightsaber will not help you mechanically any more than any other orange lightsaber you pick up as treasure on the way.

 

The CM saved the game, I agree, but the amount of effort into the CM compared to the rest of the game is just a sad disparity. Literally EVERY patch, we have had a new CM pack cranked out, and with all the goodies on the CM theirs really nothing to earn in the game that's worth it anymore. Any form of cosmetic items not on the CM are just so sparse to obtain, either they take your first born to be sacrificed to drop, IE HM FPs, or theirs very little outside of the CM to get it, IE pets and mounts.

 

The oversaturation of the CM market no longer allows us to earn anything cosmetic anymore. Their hasn't been a obtainable pet outside of the CM at all in KOTFE, thankfully their are a few mounts which is nice, although mostly reskinned, but theirs just such a small amount to earn when you compare it all to the CM. When was the last time we had to earn a pet? Either through a rep grind or something unique like the tauntlet pet? When was the last time we could earn decos outside of crappy star fortresses? Their needs to be more cosmetic items actually EARNED, not simply bought. That is why I dislike the CM so much, yes, it's fine to have some items, but I would prefer a 50/50 split, some earned, some bought, as of right now its like 15/85.

[IanArgent]

The CM saved the game, I agree, but the amount of effort into the CM compared to the rest of the game is just a sad disparity. Literally EVERY patch, we have had a new CM pack cranked out, and with all the goodies on the CM theirs really nothing to earn in the game that's worth it anymore. Any form of cosmetic items not on the CM are just so sparse to obtain, either they take your first born to be sacrificed to drop, IE HM FPs, or theirs very little outside of the CM to get it, IE pets and mounts.

 

The oversaturation of the CM market no longer allows us to earn anything cosmetic anymore. Their hasn't been a obtainable pet outside of the CM at all in KOTFE, thankfully their are a few mounts which is nice, although mostly reskinned, but theirs just such a small amount to earn when you compare it all to the CM. When was the last time we had to earn a pet? Either through a rep grind or something unique like the tauntlet pet? When was the last time we could earn decos outside of crappy star fortresses? Their needs to be more cosmetic items actually EARNED, not simply bought. That is why I dislike the CM so much, yes, it's fine to have some items, but I would prefer a 50/50 split, some earned, some bought, as of right now its like 15/85.

 

I actually agree we need more cosmetic items outside the CM. But dragging the CM up in a discussion about a mechanical QoL item is way off topic - any XP gain limiter would have no place on the CM.

 

 

(I did forget about the XP boosts being available on the CM, incidentally, but they're so commonly available in play that I plead lack of necessity and lack of caffeine).

[peter_plankskull]

I actually agree we need more cosmetic items outside the CM. But dragging the CM up in a discussion about a mechanical QoL item is way off topic - any XP gain limiter would have no place on the CM.

 

 

(I did forget about the XP boosts being available on the CM, incidentally, but they're so commonly available in play that I plead lack of necessity and lack of caffeine).

 

It was a joke .

[Tsillah]

Wether you ask for it or not does not matter you expect your character to have higher stats than an optimised companion despite your character wearing "pickup" gear, i just checked with my juggernaut who's only equipped in 212 gear in other words not the optimum for level 65 by a long shot and the only stats that the rank 30 companion excels in are a tiny bit alacrity and health and that is with 500 presence bonus from legacy mind you and it makes sense since...

a) the char does not wear alacrity gear at all

b) companions are dumb like a rock they literally stand inside every AoE/"Big" attack, they also have zero utility skills like CC breaks, it makes sense for them to have more health.

 

I see, you just have reading comprehension problems. We are talking about leveling and not being level 65. Hope that you get it now.

 

I just did the heroics on DK with my brand new F2P character and I didn't even have to heal Khem when he was fighting two gold mobs by himself. Killed em quick too. Not overpowered at all of course.

 

Sorry but i believe all this talk is a bad joke, before 4.0 people where complaining how weak companions are.....but most just gave them leftover/random drop gear, now peeps complain about companions being "OP"......while equipping their characters with leftover/random drop gear.

 

Perhaps it's not the same people complaining hmm? And besides BW doesn't have to go from one extreme to another either. But that's their MO, they overcompensate with their changes a lot. That's the problem.

 

I am not badmouthing older content, in fact i prefer the older content over any given expansion, but it is common practice in mmo's today to make older content more accessible/easier after a while to give potential new players the chance to catch up, the problem with SWTOR? It is a twinkaholic game thats why you get all of these buhuuuu topics from "veteran" players.

 

I didn't say you were badmouthing it. You were however being rather dismissive towards its value and I disagree with that.

 

I have made about 40 characters but since they raised the cap to that many alts and beyond the game has actually become less altoholic friendly. I'm not going to describe why because that's another topic but as an altoholic myself I prefer the way the game was before 4.0 especially.

[IanArgent]

It was a joke .

 

See "lack of caffeine," combined with seeing far too many people not joking about "only if they put it on the CM."

 

My apologies.

[UmbralSpirit]

Wow... even at level 30 their have more stats than crafted 65 pre ops gear... that is.... sad honestly... and even worse that people defend it. Comps are OP, their is no denying it, when they can solo almost every solo enemy in the game, then something is wrong.

 

Last time i checked noone was forcing anyone to rank up companions, no? People choose to make them stronger....and then they complain. If anything is "OP" it's the ridiculous -Time +Crit rate you get from companions these days but strangely enough noone complains about THAT.

 

I see, you just have reading comprehension problems. We are talking about leveling and not being level 65. Hope that you get it now.

 

I just did the heroics on DK with my brand new F2P character and I didn't even have to heal Khem when he was fighting two gold mobs by himself. Killed em quick too. Not overpowered at all of course.

 

You are talking about low level planets and how easy it is which comes with the territory and is natural i don't remember ever having issues with the Heroic2's on DK for example, mob stat growth is exponential after all, low level areas never really where hard, yes it is easier now but that is mostly because you get xp thrown at you like candy despite level sync you are still higher regardless plus you now always have a companion with a role that fits your desired playstyle regardless of your class (yes that does make a difference), maybe you would be happy if they added the option to "Lock" xp but i have my doubts many would actually use such a feature.

 

 

 

Perhaps it's not the same people complaining hmm? And besides BW doesn't have to go from one extreme to another either. But that's their MO, they overcompensate with their changes a lot. That's the problem.

 

Possible, but the forum is a (very tiny) community on it's own. I agree that the Dev's overdo things constantly but i'd rather have them start fixing things that are actually broken instead of having them mess arround (and most likely break) with stuff that at least works the way it should be.

 

 

 

I didn't say you were badmouthing it. You were however being rather dismissive towards its value and I disagree with that.

 

I was quoting someone else here.

As for being dismissive, might be a bad choice of words on my part to make this clear once more i LOVE the vanilla content and i HATE most of the expansions (especially KOTFE).

 

I'm not going to describe why because that's another topic but as an altoholic myself I prefer the way the game was before 4.0 especially.

 

I prefered the game it was before it went F2P, but it's never going back that's for sure, these things happen and there is nothing you or me can do about it.

[IanArgent]

I posit that a difficulty setting is an artificial method of changing difficulty for yourself, similar to the myriad ways one can nerf oneself in SWTOR. It's different but one has the option to make the game harder on oneself, if one so chooses. Not bad game design, in fact quite the opposite. It's a roundabout way to do it, but it's there.

 

But oh, how i miss the days when we could equip our companions. As it is now, it's either OP or nothing, and there's no taking back influence. The only option is to put one away and take out a lesser-influenced companion.

 

Not like we don't have plenty of options to do just that, keeping a comp at lower influence for challenging ourselves.

[Deewe]

Not like we don't have plenty of options to do just that, keeping a comp at lower influence for challenging ourselves.

Been leveling without a companion lately and the game is starting to be fun again.

 

I'm still OP but well at least I have the feeling my character is actually doing something.

 

Too bad there's no option to both play with or without companions and still find the game as much entertaining

[robertthebard]

Simple. Since I know that certain things happened across the game, such as increased xp, lowered difficulties and being overleveled becoming a given or the norm rather than the exception, it doesn't really matter what you normally do to level because all of it has become relatively easier, shorter to do in time and more rewarding in xp. So whatever you normally do, questing, pvp' ing, fp' ing, heroics, you name it...all of it is subject to these changes that happened particularly in the last couple of years.

 

So to me when you get more xp for such activities and they take less time to do, there is no way that it takes the same time to level, no matter what combination of such activities you use to level.

 

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we've had these threads since I've been around. We've had "it's too easy" and "I'm outleveling the content" threads well before 4.0. Some people are finding it easier now? Good for them, seriously. I have never found the leveling process to be hard, barring a fight or two along the way, such as my previous example of the Consular end fight, and my first run as a Knight was interesting, to say the least, since the required comp hadn't been used for 2/3 of the game, and back then you had to actually gear 'em up.

 

Apparently I wasn't alone in that, just based on some of the responses in this thread.

[robertthebard]

Yesterday I made an F2P account to test some things out. So far I'm level 20. So I've completed the starter planet including the 2 Heroics (Korriban) and for most of it you are solo since you get the sorc companion all the way at the end of the story line there. Then I went to the fleet did the little quest for the crew skill vendors and did one pvp match for that starter quest that gives you the trinkets and enough xp to gain at least 2 levels. I then proceeded to solo black talon with my companion. I was level 17 and came out level 19. Of course you get this combat droid to do it. I didn't have to cast a single heal on my companion. I then proceeded to do the first quest on DK for Zash and made level 20. Funny enough the mobs I was killing gave me no xp because the level sync sets you down to level 18 and mobs that are level 10 and 11 don't even give xp then. But the quest reward xp got me to 20.

 

So what I am saying here is that up to level 20 I haven't really used my companion and there was no way of telling whether he was overpowered or not. Mind you this was a new F2P account without any legacy bonuses and unguilded. This is also when I learned that F2P don't get xp penalties till level 20 but that's a sidenote.

 

So now I am level 20, my companion has better stats than I have it seems and already during the first quest on DK (I set Khem to DPS and I am a healer Sorc) I didn't have to cast a single heal on him. You see the mechanic that incoming damage is reduced seems to work still or something and we were 6-8 levels higher than the mobs so they couldn't really do much to us at all I guess. And my companion has a lot more HP than I do as it is.

 

Is that not overpowered?

 

You tell me. I'm not sure what you call lower level but up to level 20 you don't really need to test your companion in any shape or form...even as F2P.

 

You know, I spent the majority of the last third of Korriban cussing Vette for roflstomping mobs right after I got her, the very first day I played. Wanna know the funny? It was before KotFE was even a whisper of a rumor anywhere. We got all of the Alliance and Revan stuff after that toon was already at cap.

 

I've already shared how I could solo Oricon on a tank shadow with Nadia, while it was relevant, which means, before 4.0 and this seemingly mystical time frame in which the comps became OP. On the aforementioned Mara, I didn't do anything with Vette, she just rolled the mobs like we were 10 levels higher, despite being right at level.

[Andryah]

You know, I spent the majority of the last third of Korriban cussing Vette for roflstomping mobs right after I got her, the very first day I played. Wanna know the funny? It was before KotFE was even a whisper of a rumor anywhere.

 

LOL... indeed.

 

First time I did Korriban with Vette as my companion... I could not stop laughing at how she was tossing grenades, blowing mobs up and then drilling them full of holes for good measure, and smack talking at the same time. I'm standing there with a saber in my hand and thinking.. "hey, let me have some fun too!" I kept the shock collar option on Vette just because of this. :p

Edited October 2, 2016 by Andryah

[Tsillah]

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we've had these threads since I've been around. We've had "it's too easy" and "I'm outleveling the content" threads well before 4.0. Some people are finding it easier now? Good for them, seriously. I have never found the leveling process to be hard, barring a fight or two along the way, such as my previous example of the Consular end fight, and my first run as a Knight was interesting, to say the least, since the required comp hadn't been used for 2/3 of the game, and back then you had to actually gear 'em up.

 

Apparently I wasn't alone in that, just based on some of the responses in this thread.

 

Are you just combative or what?

 

I never said that leveling was hard even at the beginning, though admittedly there were a couple of story bosses that at least posed a challenge, but the fact that it was easy before doesn't exclude that it hasn't gotten easier over time nonetheless. Math is on my side, I don't know what you have but apparently nothing.

 

Simple fact remains that we get more xp than before and it's even easier than before and less time consuming. There is a difference. Maybe the difficulty at start wasn 20 out of 100. Now it's 2 out of 100. Not real numbers, just an example. Just because 20 was easy already doesn't mean 2 isn't even easier.

 

It's simple math by the numbers when it comes to xp gain and nerfed mobs taking less time to die. I know I couldn't solo heroics before that I can solo now and I know that I could solo others but that they were a lot tougher than they are now. If my Khem can solo 2 golds without me doing anything, I know that wasn't the case before. That's a factual difference. If that's too much for you, I will try to feel sorry for you.

[Tsillah]

You know, I spent the majority of the last third of Korriban cussing Vette for roflstomping mobs right after I got her, the very first day I played. Wanna know the funny? It was before KotFE was even a whisper of a rumor anywhere. We got all of the Alliance and Revan stuff after that toon was already at cap.

 

I've already shared how I could solo Oricon on a tank shadow with Nadia, while it was relevant, which means, before 4.0 and this seemingly mystical time frame in which the comps became OP. On the aforementioned Mara, I didn't do anything with Vette, she just rolled the mobs like we were 10 levels higher, despite being right at level.

 

I don't know the exact timings when it happened and of course it didn't just happen at 4.0 but it was the point where it just went that final step to far as far as I'm concerned. Going by your member number I'd say you weren't here in the early days of the game. That's probably why you haven't seen the game go down in that over the years. I am comparing it to what people refer to as vanilla and 4.0 was just the final straw that took anything that was left of it out. Of course companions had already gotten more and more powerful before but it was a different story when the game was still young.

 

There is nothing mystical going on here. It's just that because of your black and white thinking you fail to see the grey area that's there and because you don't see it, you do not recognise it when others do. It's a form of blindness you seem to have, but companions were not always as powerful and it's only one part of the topic that you seem so focused on. Try broadening your vision a bit here on the wider topic. Companions is a thing, but increased xp and nerfed enemies are others.

 

I will tell you that my xp gain in my F2P experience is still better than the xp gain as a sub in the beginning. Even over level 20 now with reduced xp I do not need to do anywhere near as much as I had to before to get the xp needed to stay on level. That's as F2P. So fight all you want but the truth is all these things have happened over time and it's your misinterpretation if you assumed 4.0 was the start of that in my view. It wasn't but it was the latest big drop in making the game even easier as it was. The only step that's left is that the mobs fall dead upon seeing you pretty much.

[UmbralSpirit]

If my Khem

 

Far from solo but it's also far from an optimal setup and it is also way before legacy bonuses where a thing:

 

Maybe it's just you if you couldn't do it before?

[Tsillah]

Far from solo but it's also far from an optimal setup and it is also way before legacy bonuses where a thing:

 

Maybe it's just you if you couldn't do it before?

 

Are you mad?

 

Of course I could do that one. I wasn't even talking about that one anyway and I am talking about Khem doing it alone, in DPS stance, without me doing ANYTHING. Not a single heal.

 

I used to be able to do this Heroic with just my companion too. Took longer to kill. Where the hell do you get this idea that I thought it used to be hard? I just say it's EVEN EASIER THAN BEFORE. Can you even grasp this concept? I have no idea where you conjured up this idea but the simple truth is that all these DK heroics can now be solo'd by my companion alone without any heals. I've tested it with my F2P character, not even my sub characters with all their bonuses. I tested it today. Khem can kill all the mobs by himself without me interfering in any way. I just press his attack button and watch the gold and silvers die without touching the keyboard. And yes, part of the issue is being overleveled and level sync is part of that issue. But I do get full xp rewards for it now and I didn't used to.

 

Guys, really, stop making stuff up and just react to what I actually said please. It's getting annoying and frankly you should be embarrased. This goes well beyond misreading something.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Tsillah

[Gokkus]

I disagree with this. I had no trouble learning the game and I played it mostly after these "making things easier" changes. I've seen this argument before and it seems to rest on the belief that if players are sufficiently challenged early on, then they will naturally learn what they need to learn and be better players in FPs and Ops.

 

If you hit them hard ASAP, they're just going to be intimidated and leave. I raided with people like this for years because I was in a guild that started out very casual in our raiding goals and expectations. As we grew steadily more hardcore in our goals and expectations, many of our casual vets hit a distinct skill cap and no amount of instruction, encouragement, or frustrated outbursts were going to get them to be where we wanted them. Some of the people who suck in stuff like FPs and Ops simply aren't invested in improving, or they're too stubborn or (I hate to say it) too inept at MMOs to improve all that much.

 

Not to mention the fact that you can do FPs while leveling (and like PvP, it's optional). So you can get experience with that content directly, early.

 

The key here, really, is optional. Like I said, those who want it will seek it out one way or another.

 

Maybe you learned to play quickly, but the amount of people in FPs these days that does not even know how to self-heal or just use basic attacks all the time is staggering. FPs have always had its ups and downs, but there were never as many people who were this clueless or gave up this easy IMO. Which is logical since the solo experience teaches you nothing about survivability, challenge, interrupts, etc. So when you get into a FP, it is suddenly ten times as hard as you are used to...a very bad development if you ask me, to make that gap this big.

 

This game used to be more difficult and I seriously doubt you will find anyone that left because of that. There is a huge gap between incredibly easy and very hard. This game should not be hard single player, I agree, but we are miles from that point.

 

Just as a too difficult game will repel people, so will games that are too easy. Without challenge or a sense of accomplishment, you take away a lot of people's basic drive to play a game to begin with. Moreover, a too easy game will make you leave more quickly, that is only logical.

 

The game should not be hard, it should not force people into perfect rotations or ask them to learn every aspect of combat. But it should encourage them to at least learn the basics and not make them assume they are invincible because of OP companions. Being unbeatable doesnt make you heroic...it makes you lazy. If there is nothing at stake, no risk, you will feel an equal amount of pride and accomplishment.

[UmbralSpirit]

Where the hell do you get this idea that I thought it used to be hard?

 

Yes where did i get that idea from i wonder.....

 

I know I couldn't solo heroics before that I can solo now

 

And yes he is healing but it also is not a gold mob it's a heroic 2 champion level type at level (it's yellow not green) and as i said there where no 500 legacy presence bonus at that time and he admits that his Khem is partially geared in level 9! gear, also Khem didn't have a DPS stance at that time.

[Rolodome]

Maybe you learned to play quickly, but the amount of people in FPs these days that does not even know how to self-heal or just use basic attacks all the time is staggering. FPs have always had its ups and downs, but there were never as many people who were this clueless or gave up this easy IMO. Which is logical since the solo experience teaches you nothing about survivability, challenge, interrupts, etc. So when you get into a FP, it is suddenly ten times as hard as you are used to...a very bad development if you ask me, to make that gap this big.

 

This game used to be more difficult and I seriously doubt you will find anyone that left because of that. There is a huge gap between incredibly easy and very hard. This game should not be hard single player, I agree, but we are miles from that point.

 

Just as a too difficult game will repel people, so will games that are too easy. Without challenge or a sense of accomplishment, you take away a lot of people's basic drive to play a game to begin with. Moreover, a too easy game will make you leave more quickly, that is only logical.

 

The game should not be hard, it should not force people into perfect rotations or ask them to learn every aspect of combat. But it should encourage them to at least learn the basics and not make them assume they are invincible because of OP companions. Being unbeatable doesnt make you heroic...it makes you lazy. If there is nothing at stake, no risk, you will feel an equal amount of pride and accomplishment.

A) Some classes don't have a self-heal. At least, not a readily accessible one (I'm looking at you, mara, and your, like, one self-heal through a trait). Furthermore, being expected to know how to self-heal goes against the design of the classes in the first place; they are supposed to be trinity, working together.

 

B) If tacticals used to require more strict roles then it would actually be older players who would be less likely to know how to use their self-heals, as they would go into FPs expecting that a healer will take care of them.

 

C) Experiences vary. Ask a dozen different people and you'll get a dozen different answers about the state of pug tacticals. In my experience, most people are relatively competent and do a good job.

 

D) No one left because of difficulty? That seems like a silly assumption to make. Many customers don't paint their departure on the walls in neon green. They just don't come back. I can speak for myself in that, years ago, when I tried the game a bit post-F2P, I got really dragged down/bored with the slow leveling process and the F2P XP reduction. Mainly what I wanted was the class story and it took me too long to get to the next part. I also heard this same complaint from a friend or two who had messed around with the game.

 

E) I'm not arguing the game's leveling isn't relatively easy, but... for the first (roughly) 10 levels, you have no companion and you aren't remotely unbeatable. In fact, that blood pool Korriban side quest is still pretty difficult to solo, if you haven't gotten your companion yet and you're the same level as the mission. It's not until you've already experienced the basics that you get the "I win button" companion.

 

Leveling itself is pretty easy to me, but try going to a server (entirely new legacy), don't use any XP bonuses, only do side quests and class missions on the starter planet (no exploration missions) so you don't jump way ahead of stuff in level. And then tell me that it doesn't encourage you to learn the basics.

[Gokkus]

A) Some classes don't have a self-heal. At least, not a readily accessible one (I'm looking at you, mara, and your, like, one self-heal through a trait). Furthermore, being expected to know how to self-heal goes against the design of the classes in the first place; they are supposed to be trinity, working together.

 

B) If tacticals used to require more strict roles then it would actually be older players who would be less likely to know how to use their self-heals, as they would go into FPs expecting that a healer will take care of them.

 

C) Experiences vary. Ask a dozen different people and you'll get a dozen different answers about the state of pug tacticals. In my experience, most people are relatively competent and do a good job.

 

D) No one left because of difficulty? That seems like a silly assumption to make. Many customers don't paint their departure on the walls in neon green. They just don't come back. I can speak for myself in that, years ago, when I tried the game a bit post-F2P, I got really dragged down/bored with the slow leveling process and the F2P XP reduction. Mainly what I wanted was the class story and it took me too long to get to the next part. I also heard this same complaint from a friend or two who had messed around with the game.

 

E) I'm not arguing the game's leveling isn't relatively easy, but... for the first (roughly) 10 levels, you have no companion and you aren't remotely unbeatable. In fact, that blood pool Korriban side quest is still pretty difficult to solo, if you haven't gotten your companion yet and you're the same level as the mission. It's not until you've already experienced the basics that you get the "I win button" companion.

 

Leveling itself is pretty easy to me, but try going to a server (entirely new legacy), don't use any XP bonuses, only do side quests and class missions on the starter planet (no exploration missions) so you don't jump way ahead of stuff in level. And then tell me that it doesn't encourage you to learn the basics.

 

A) with self-heal I meant recover, so out-of-combat heal. In other words, healing up before running head first into the next group of mobs.

 

B) that is nonsense, you did not used to get healing companions until much later (for the majority of classes). And when you did get them, they were not nearly as OP as they are now. My first character (before I knew what I was doing) used a DPS companion until Belsavis. I wasnt exactly a pro but I managed just fine. Moreover, I would die in certain boss fights. So I had to think about what I could do better. In other words, I learned to play my class. Having healers in FPs did not prevent me from learning how to survive.

 

C) try Depths of Manaan and then get back to me. The truth is that people have far less need to learn to play their class even half decent. Instant level 60 characters did not help with that. Regardless of experiences. Making this game a lot easier had a negative effect on player skill.

 

D) You are talking about leveling pace, not difficulty. If any players left because of difficulty, that number would be negligible, I dare that to bet on that.

I never saw much complaining on leveling pace on the forums in the beginning. Things were completely different back then. It would not work anymore now because of the impatience of players (sprint at level 14, speeders at 25, etc.). As far as I am concerned they went overboard with the insta level 60 and gross overleveling. And F2P should be encouraged to pay money, so their pace should be considerably lower. But with the amount of XP boosts given, they are just fine.

 

E) Yes at least that is a good thing. Makes me wonder how people did not learn about recover...but 10 levels is not nearly enough. You have very little abilities in the beginning and no need for interrupts, defensive CDs or avoiding red cirlces.

 

It is impossible for me to go back to the place I was when I started this game. But I did start new characters on a new server and for subs, overleveling is pretty much unavoidable...which is silly. And I have seen a new player go through the first 50 levels. I heard her say: "that's it?" when fighting bosses. She soloed champions and was rarely in trouble. Even when she agroed multiple groups of mobs she was kept alive by her companion easily. I honestly think the difficulty substracts from her playing experience.

[JamieKirby]

Well, now-a-days, challenge and rewards are never the same, i believe in challenge = rewards, not the non-existent 'sense of achievement' that garbage doesn't exist, people talk about it to make themselves feel good for completing a game on the hardest difficulty level and getting the exact same rewards as completing it on the easiest setting.

 

I welcome challenges, but now-a-days, to do *challenging content* you have to read up on it, watch a video showing you how to do it with no mistakes, if you make mistakes, you tend to get verbally abused and removed from the ops group or fp group and severely blacklisted if it was in a high profile raid group.......hardcore raiders have it easy now-a-days, they have it all explained on a website and youtube, it is very rare to encounter a single player in the game that doesn't even try more than once to complete something without begging for help.

 

I do think that leveling 1-65 should be easy, going through the storylines should be easy, its the endgame parts that should be challenging, but the harder it becomes, the more elitist the hardcore raiders become, demanding the best players only and expecting everyone to know everything about it before you even do it....and that is just stupid and something that needs to change.

 

Overall, random grouping is a bad thing to do and i have had nothing but bad experiences with the groupfinder, so i don't bother with it and always find a good, down to earth guild that doesn't have a childish hissy fit when they die once to a silly mistake that they made, its good to make mistakes, you learn from them and you grow as a result, if you never make mistakes, you get bored quickly.

[JamieKirby]

A) with self-heal I meant recover, so out-of-combat heal. In other words, healing up before running head first into the next group of mobs.

 

Well, the problem with this part is that from experience with using groupfinder for this DvL event, i have learnt that most of the time, you don't even get a chance to use your rest ability inbetween fights when you need to use it, players that don't need to, just rush ahead without even thinking and *****es to the others when they die to their recklessness.

[robertthebard]

Well, the problem with this part is that from experience with using groupfinder for this DvL event, i have learnt that most of the time, you don't even get a chance to use your rest ability inbetween fights when you need to use it, players that don't need to, just rush ahead without even thinking and *****es to the others when they die to their recklessness.

 

This kind of thing isn't even exclusive to swtor, let alone the DvL event. It goes on in any MMO with this kind of content. In DDO they call them zergers, that want to just zerg everything and be done, and if you can't keep up, too bad, so sad.

[Rolodome]

A) with self-heal I meant recover, so out-of-combat heal. In other words, healing up before running head first into the next group of mobs.

Well like the poster below you said, some people don't heal up because of the speed the group is going at. Another reason is that sometimes they simply don't need to... either because they strong enough not to need to heal up every time, or because they have some combat heals they can use in a pinch. Not everybody plays the same way.

 

If there are cases of people honestly not knowing how, sure, but I've never seen it.

 

B) that is nonsense, you did not used to get healing companions until much later (for the majority of classes). And when you did get them, they were not nearly as OP as they are now. My first character (before I knew what I was doing) used a DPS companion until Belsavis. I wasnt exactly a pro but I managed just fine. Moreover, I would die in certain boss fights. So I had to think about what I could do better. In other words, I learned to play my class. Having healers in FPs did not prevent me from learning how to survive.

It's no less nonsense than claiming that because the game had less healing, everybody knew how to play FPs better.

 

C) try Depths of Manaan and then get back to me. The truth is that people have far less need to learn to play their class even half decent. Instant level 60 characters did not help with that. Regardless of experiences. Making this game a lot easier had a negative effect on player skill.

So you name a FP that is not tuned in line with the others and use that as your baseline? No wonder you think people are terrible.

 

D) You are talking about leveling pace, not difficulty. If any players left because of difficulty, that number would be negligible, I dare that to bet on that.

I never saw much complaining on leveling pace on the forums in the beginning. Things were completely different back then. It would not work anymore now because of the impatience of players (sprint at level 14, speeders at 25, etc.). As far as I am concerned they went overboard with the insta level 60 and gross overleveling. And F2P should be encouraged to pay money, so their pace should be considerably lower. But with the amount of XP boosts given, they are just fine.

So we're arguing based on bets now? That's pretty *********** silly. I know for a fact that I was dissuaded by it, as were a couple of others. Your not seeing visible complaints about it on the forums is meaningless, as complaints are not always vocalized on the forums. So far, the odds are not in your favor on this argument. And leveling pace is tied to difficulty. I didn't say it was only the XP gain. The flow of combat was also unappealing and it was irritating to me that the roles you got from companions were dependent on class, rather than giving you, the player, options.

 

E) Yes at least that is a good thing. Makes me wonder how people did not learn about recover...but 10 levels is not nearly enough. You have very little abilities in the beginning and no need for interrupts, defensive CDs or avoiding red cirlces.

 

It is impossible for me to go back to the place I was when I started this game. But I did start new characters on a new server and for subs, overleveling is pretty much unavoidable...which is silly. And I have seen a new player go through the first 50 levels. I heard her say: "that's it?" when fighting bosses. She soloed champions and was rarely in trouble. Even when she agroed multiple groups of mobs she was kept alive by her companion easily. I honestly think the difficulty substracts from her playing experience.

Whatever you say. You said it doesn't teach you the basics, I was pointing out that it does give you the basics in the first 10 levels with no companion.

 

I keep hearing this thing about aggroing multiple groups of mobs and I don't know what version of SWTOR people are playing. Yes, if you're well geared and you aggro 2-3 groups of normal mobs, you can survive pretty well with a healing companion on you. If you mix in multiple elites (and especially multiple champions), that changes quickly. I'm getting kind of irritated at people continually exaggerating the power of companions. They are not invincible. They're just strong.

 

As for overleveling, it's not unavoidable. Don't know where you're getting that idea.

 

It is pretty easy overall to level right now: Yes. Companions are pretty strong: Yes.

 

But the exaggeration is over the top.

 

One of the things that people commonly miss in these discussions about dumbing down games that have been around a while is the statistics of a shrinking playerbase. The more players you have and the newer a game is, the more likely it is you'll have a higher number of MMO veterans whose skill cap is higher. As a game gets older and fickle veterans bleed into newer games, the number of veterans goes down overall. This impacts the feeling of an overall less skilled playerbase.

 

The belief that a difficult game magically teaches people how to play well is mostly superstition, motivated by a need to explain incompetent gameplay and feel like there is an easy solution for it. Becoming good at something takes time and dedication, which is something that a lot of players simply don't have or care to invest in. And the game hasn't been "dumbed game" all that long. So even if the difficulty did teach people how to be better, it would likely take years, plural, for the changes to start showing up in the average competency of the playerbase; about the same amount of time as it would take the average player to become good at the game before it was "dumbed down." Because it'd only be at that point that you could see realistically see the difference; the proof being the lack of a new wave of people reaching a moderate level of skill.