Effect of offhand on dps

[Drake_Averrod]

I am trying hard to get over 7k on my dummy parses. I got close once with 6.9 and even felt I could have been higher if I didn't screw it up. I generally experience alot of variance in my parses. I would say I am never below 6.5 but I am also not in full 224. Currently I have 1 implant. 2 relics, 1 armoring and the offhand hilt (only the hilt) in 220, everything else is 224.

 

Now my question(s): How much of an impact has the offhand hilt especially regarding force power and are other Sents experiencing this large variance between parses (again I can be 6500 min or 6800 or higher) but still below 7k sadly)? The large investement in crit in 4.0 would suggest that variance is part of the deal. but I would like to hear of the high parsers if their lower limit is always above 7k.

 

Or TLDR: when Elethon and Hayette wake up and parse are you/those guye over 7k every time?

Edited September 12, 2016 by Drake_Averrod

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I am trying hard to get over 7k on my dummy parses. I got close once with 6.9 and even felt I could have been higher if I didn't screw it up. I generally experience alot of variance in my parses. I would say I am never below 6.5 but I am also not in full 224. Currently I have 1 implant. 2 relics, 1 armoring and the offhand hilt (only the hilt) in 220, everything else is 224.

 

Now my question(s): How much of an impact has the offhand hilt especially regarding force power and are other Sents experiencing this large variance between parses (again I can be 6500 min or 6800 or higher) but still below 7k sadly)? The large investement in crit in 4.0 would suggest that variance is part of the deal. but I would like to hear of the high parsers if their lower limit is always above 7k.

 

Or TLDR: when Elethon and Hayete wake up and parse are you/those guye over 7k every time?

 

Regarding your question about the difference the 224 offhand makes

 

Surprisingly not very much if your coming from the 220 offhand. Essentially it only adds about 15-20 points of damage to your respective damage bonus. This is roughly about the same added damage you would get if you added a extra power/mastery augment to a piece of gear.

 

 

 

 

I parse a great deal, and from my own experience [i've parsed into the 7.2k range. - http://parsely.io/parser/view/190271 [7.2k], http://parsely.io/parser/view/148218 [7.2k]], which may vary with others of course, I can tell you that the off hand essentially had no effect on where I was able to get to before I got it and after. I had already gotten into the 7.2k range before I got the 224 off hand[ but only two or three times] and after I got it i hit 7.2 k range a few more times. I could detect no noticable difference. Mind you, I'm basically 224 except for one implant. The gear does play a part, but noticably only in mass [ two peices going from 220 to 224 might not have a huge effect, but if it were say 7 or 8 peices of gear going from 220 to 224 will matter to a degree depending on your build this might be more noticable or less].

 

Substantial differences in one parse to the next even back to back is not unusual. I could parse lets say a couple of 6.9s followed by a 7 k or two, and than in subsequent parses at the same time not get passed 6.899. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Of course this is under the condition of using the same rotation and not making gear/build changes.

 

All parses both on dummies as well as in live raids are subject to rng, which there isnt much you can do about unless you make substantial build change [ you could very possibly detect a difference going from 35 percent crit chance and 40 percent]. Rng effects the amount of crits you get, the amount you miss as well as the amount of damage of an attack. Weapon damage [bonus] has a range, and if you look at your character sheet you will that your weapon damage bonus has a range of upwards of 200. So you could let's say hit with a battering assault one time and the next time it could do 200 points of damage less using the same exact attack potentially. This has huge effects both good and bad depending on how the RNG Gods are feeling at the moment. It's the same for miss chance. The more you miss the more damage you use. You might miss 7 percent of the attacks on one parse and the next next parse have a 10 percent miss rate. Consider the effects on damage missing a bunch of the ravage hits[out of the six] so you might have had the chance of doing 12k with a ravage but due to misses it turns out your only getting 5k of damage. Over the course of a dummy parse or a boss fights, these types of damage misses can add up to a noticable difference with regard to potential damage and actual damage done.

 

Naturally things like lag, poor connections, ms rates can also have effects on how smooth your rotation transacts and effects timing issue. A lot of lag could result in an attack damage not all getting in before you lose a gore window's effect, as well as effect your APMs. Again, not something you can always do something about. As well, human error always plays a part, and we will always make mistakes from time to time, mistakes incurring damage loss. So variance will always be there, more at some times, less at others.

 

I can hit 7k with a good degree of frequency. I've actually kept track of all my 7k + parses in effort to study them and see where the mediums lay and for getting an idea of how much rng plays its part and to learn from mistakes. I've hot 7 -7099k about 150 times over the course of the last 6 months on dummy parses. 7.1 k range about 25 times and the 7.2k range about 8 or nine times.

 

Considering the amount I parse,and with keeping track of things I can say this [but this is just in my own experience], 7k range parses aren't frequent but out of say 7-10 parses I will likely hit it at least once.

 

7.1k range is substantially harder to hit, but, even when im only in the 7k range, i might miss the 7.1k range but only a small amount [i.e 7.089 or 7.092k].

 

With regard to the 7.2k range. This is extremely difficult. I can go weeks between hitting that range. While I know I'm capable of it, really when you start to get into this range, it's less about skill [although the skill must be there to have a chance] and more about the stars aligning just right.

 

Bare something in mind, people do not upload subpar or average parses to parsley. They upload the best of the best. I would venture to say many of the best parses you see on parsley across all classes and specs, are almost always the best the person has ever done. Sometimes it's sheer dumb luck[ meaning they did it once but might not do it again]. Once they have been seen to be able to do similarly on many occassions than you can start to say that skill and luck are both factors.

 

I know some excellent marauders who I raid with who do great dps and whom I would consider extremely skilled and yet have not hit 7k. It's not easy, in fact, I's say its rather difficult. Most of the people who can parse into the 7k range are probably people who spend an inordinate about of time not only parsing, but playing the class a great deal and do alot of high end raiding. In my case, I do not have alts. Four the last 4 years I've been in the game I have played a carnage marauder exclusively. So I'm sure all the time practicing and playing the spec play a big part.

 

Hayete inspired me to excel by his example. He showed me what the possibilities are and even after all this time, I have not been able to match his best. Same class, same devotion, same desire to excel. So why can he do it, or why can some hit a certain number and others haven't been able to yet? Who knows. But I'd venture to say it doesn't have to do with science or anything definative. Sometimes it's just about the roll of the dice, backed up by skill.

 

Keep at it. You'll get there.

 

Best of luck to you.

Edited September 12, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[THAT_EPIC_GUY]

The variance (assuming you're skilled at your rotation and relatively consistent) is almost entirely due to crits. The best way to check your crit luck is just checking how much of your total damage was critical damage. Starparse has a popout for this (personal stats, swap it to the dps popout, it will show your ability crit percentage but more importantly it shows total crit damage as a percentage of your total damage, the higher this percent the luckier your crits.)

 

In response to your other question; My best anni parse is 7.4k, I average around 7.2k. My lower end is never below 7k unless I mess up badly rotationally and have some unlucky crit rates.

Edited September 12, 2016 by THAT_EPIC_GUY

[Bahadori]

 

Hayete inspired me to excel by his example. He showed me what the possibilities are and even after all this time, I have not been able to match his best. Same class, same devotion, same desire to excel. So why can he do it, or why can some hit a certain number and others haven't been able to yet? Who knows. But I'd venture to say it doesn't have to do with science or anything definative. Sometimes it's just about the roll of the dice, backed up by skill.

 

You flatter me

 

@ OP: Honestly "most" parses (at least the ones you see on Parsley) are supreme luck. I would venture that mine and most up there on the leaderboards are the 1% when everything just happens to turn in your favor. Most parses i'm steady at high 7.1 to high 7.2K. Once in a while i'll see a 7.3K and 7.4K is like the stars and planets aligning. So you're right there and not being in full 224 gear means you can blame a good portion of that on gear.

[Ardarell_Solo]

First of all, don't let yourself get frustrated by top parses on Parsely! They're top parses, because everything went fine on them: no rotational mistakes, exceptional crits, very good rotational procs / relic procs at the right times etc.

 

As already explained, offhand does not make that much of a difference, but crits and procs do!

 

You'd also have to look at Watchman and Combat differently: Doing exceptional DPS is much more difficult in Combat than it is in Watchman, which tends to be the more reliant spec. So it would be interesting to know which spec you're actually using?

 

Since you're asking for numbers: A "normal" parse for me would be about 7250-7300, but it can get as low as 7100 sometimes. So I'm roughly getting about the same variance in numbers you do.

 

One of the most underestimated factors of DPSing is APM: Most people who ask me questions like the one you did turn out to have issues in that area. To check how you're holding up in that area, you might want to consider doing this:

1. Build you gear like suggested in this thread, in Watchman you might want to go for a bit more critical rating

2. Check APM of top parses for your spec on parsely

3. Check average APM on your own parses

<- If you are 1 APM or more behind top parses, that's the area you should try to improve in. Methods: keybinding, eliminating latency issues (especially for Combat spec) and lots of practice :-)

 

But most of all don't overestimate the meaning of numbers and parsing. There are a lot of Sents/Maras out there who do a lot better in raid encounters than I do. So while it's good to know the best theoretical rotation under perfect circumstances, it's even more important to know how to play boss encounters well. "Well" not meaning highest dps, but pushing your output when it really counts / makes sense and playing for mechanics and group benefit, whenever that's top priority (which actually is most of the times ;-) ). So don't go chasing numbers, it's a bad habit.

 

Have fun and good luck!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Ardarell_Solo

[Bahadori]

First of all, don't let yourself get frustrated by top parses on Parsely! They're top parses, because everything went fine on them: no rotational mistakes, exceptional crits, very good rotational procs / relic procs at the right times etc.

 

As already explained, offhand does not make that much of a difference, but crits and procs do!

 

You'd also have to look at Watchman and Combat differently: Doing exceptional DPS is much more difficult in Combat than it is in Watchman, which tends to be the more reliant spec. So it would be interesting to know which spec you're actually using?

 

Since you're asking for numbers: A "normal" parse for me would be about 7250-7300, but it can get as low as 7100 sometimes. So I'm roughly getting about the same variance in numbers you do.

 

One of the most underestimated factors of DPSing is APM: Most people who ask me questions like the one you did turn out to have issues in that area. To check how you're holding up in that area, you might want to consider doing this:

1. Build you gear like suggested in this thread, in Watchman you might want to go for a bit more critical rating

2. Check APM of top parses for your spec on parsely

3. Check average APM on your own parses

<- If you are 1 APM or more behind top parses, that's the area you should try to improve in. Methods: keybinding, eliminating latency issues (especially for Combat spec) and lots of practice :-)

 

But most of all don't overestimate the meaning of numbers and parsing. There are a lot of Sents/Maras out there who do a lot better in raid encounters than I do. So while it's good to know the best theoretical rotation under perfect circumstances, it's even more important to know how to play boss encounters well. "Well" not meaning highest dps, but pushing your output when it really counts / makes sense and playing for mechanics and group benefit, whenever that's top priority (which actually is most of the times ;-) ). So don't go chasing numbers, it's a bad habit.

 

Have fun and good luck!

 

I don't think you'll find any better advice or explanation than this mate.

[RACATW]

PVP with a pocket healer or tank if you want to learn to dps well on a mara.

[Drake_Averrod]

Thank you all for your replies (especially grandmasters Elethon and Hayette ). I think I simply do not parse enough. my dps in combat is always above what is needed (but I also only do HMs). My best parse sits at 6.9 and I feel like in this parse I could have been over 7k but I screwed up towards the end. which makes me endlessly angry. I have that once in a while.

 

Something that feels like a perfect parse but towards the end I make a stupid mistake and numbers go down. I guess I do not parse enough and my rotation needs some ironing. I will keep trying and Elethon will remain my "personal benchmark" to beat . But just getting over 7k and being able to upload it will be good enough for me before 4.X ends.

 

I am mostly parsing Watchman. I do not enjoy Combat with the changes of 3.0 as much anymore and my rotation there is strongly influenced by me pvping with it. Luckily for me I am german and I can read Elethons guide. maybe I just need to go over the books again and fix a fundemantel flaw.

[Ardarell_Solo]

maybe I just need to go over the books again and fix a fundemantel flaw.

 

I can check your rotation for improvement. If you want to, just send me a parsely link via pm and I will see what I can find.