Short and Convenient Juyo-Rotation 4.x

[salaciousc]

Short and Convenient Juyo-Rotation

 

An updated guide for patch 5.0 can be found here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=903415

 

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Obsolete

All information can be found in the linked PDF-file:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/09/10/juyo/

 

Have fun

 

Scaeva, TRE

Edited December 2, 2016 by salaciousc
Patch 5.0

[kenskog]

Thanks for this.

Has anybody given it a good try, and if so how is the damage loss compared to the 'optimal' version ?

My wife just suckered me into the game again and i find it more appealing to learn a 12 gcd rotation over a 24 gcd one. Atleast at first :-D

[salaciousc]

The impact of Deadly Saber depends on the attacks that follow after that dot.

Deadly Saber will tick only 5 times if you pick 3 attacks that immediately increase the counter to 3.

 

In my rotation I build 2 stacks after DS, Force Rend delays the 3rd stack. The dot will hit ca. 5.5 times per activation.

The AOE variant delays the 3rd stack twice (Force Rend and Smash do not increase the counter), this results in 6 hits.

Those additional ticks of Deadly Saber with 2 stacks will increase your DPS.

 

Spreading dots is extremely important for that class, but this cannot be simulated at the single testdummy. Playing the Anni-Marauder as single target spec (e.g. during PVP) cripples this class.

In addition the available energy in raids or PVP matches is much higher as at the testdummy , this often allows to use Force Scream after its cooldown in fights against one enemy.

Energy constraints prevent this at the dummy.

 

 

Scaeva, TRE

Edited October 27, 2016 by salaciousc

[Ardarell_Solo]

I'm finding it a bit complicated to extract the precise rotation from that pdf, especially as a pub player.

 

However, at a quick glance I can tell you that there's a significant delay of key elements and that some key elements are not identified and/or ranked correctly, meaning according to their dps/activation, including possible side effects on other abilities and the dps/activation associated with that.

 

One thing, though: Generally never delay Overload Saber's dot twice, as this will mess up application in the next two circles. You should aim for one, and ONLY one, ability to delay application of Overload Saber's third stack and this should always be Rend in single target PvE encounters.

 

If someone is willing to transcribe the pub rotation (in words for abilities rather than icons) including the best opener leading into it, I'll be glad to test it and measure its dps against the rotation I use.

 

That being said, there are very few fights in the game atm that require playing the spec to more than 90% of its potential, if you're fully geared. It's absolutely possible that the suggested rotation is capable of those 90%.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I'm finding it a bit complicated to extract the precise rotation from that pdf, especially as a pub player.

 

However, at a quick glance I can tell you that there's a significant delay of key elements and that some key elements are not identified and/or ranked correctly, meaning according to their dps/activation, including possible side effects on other abilities and the dps/activation associated with that.

 

One thing, though: Generally never delay Overload Saber's dot twice, as this will mess up application in the next two circles. You should aim for one, and ONLY one, ability to delay application of Overload Saber's third stack and this should always be Rend in single target PvE encounters.

 

If someone is willing to transcribe the pub rotation (in words for abilities rather than icons) including the best opener leading into it, I'll be glad to test it and measure its dps against the rotation I use.

 

That being said, there are very few fights in the game atm that require playing the spec to more than 90% of its potential, if you're fully geared. It's absolutely possible that the suggested rotation is capable of those 90%.

 

I think it would be well worth the time to convert the listed rotation into pub-speak for Ard. If anyone can ascertain it's effectiveness, it's him.

Edited October 28, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[verfallen]

Short and Convenient Juyo-Rotation

 

All information can be found in the linked PDF-file:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/09/10/juyo/

 

Have fun

 

Scaeva, TRE

 

I did have a tought about deadly saber's dot "optimization" before, however I discarded it quickly when thinking about it.

 

First, it massively impact some very high dps move of the rotation, mostly Annihilate (merciless slash for sent) which is a huge chunk of your dps. I'm not sure the extra 1 stack and 2 stack ticks offset that correctly. In your rotation, mostly, I'm worried that using smash in a single target situation is more of a dps loss than whatever extra dps you gain out of your deadly slash. A previous poster said you were delaying a new Deadly Saber, that tells me the dots are actually not optimized then.

 

As proof, from its final stack application, deadly saber will take 4 GCD to apply its full damage. You need 3 GCD to apply it (as it has a 1GCD rate limit in it). This means, you must delay at max 1 GCD, after the 2nd stack application to really "squeeze" out extra damage without having to delay DS, as it will never "refresh" 3 stack. Even with loaded lightsabers, the last stack will fall out before your active stacks start applying from 1 again. At most, you'll get one extra 2 stack tick every 8 GCD.

 

You have to calculate the average damage it gives you over a "second" vs the average damage loss by using a less efficient ability like smash on a single target, or force scream, which is better damage but very costly, hence why most anni mara don't use it (2 VS is better than 1FS and 1 slash to compensate, and thats assuming you were not somewhere that cause you to delay annihilate)

 

The dps loss from a slightly delayed annihilate alone probably cause an overall dps loss in the rotation. And thats not considering the rest of the previous paragraph.

 

Still, if you believe we are wrong, the current rotation as posted by oophalong for anni has proven what kind of numbers it can pull, I'm curious to see how your rotation does in a straight in dummy bash, as I find it hard to believe its sustainable in live ops.

 

So try it, and post your numbers here. But as said, I'd be very very surprise if you'd clock anything over a 200-300 dps loss vs the current "established" rotation. Much less improve it.

Edited October 29, 2016 by verfallen

[salaciousc]

It is possible to delay a stack of Deadly Saber twice before it fades out. Smash is a placeholder, the included text explains how things work. The German description contains more details about energy regeneration, testdummy parses and the game mechanics of Berserk, those 3 topics are missing in the English summary.

 

At the 3 yellow markers you can influence (or mess up) your DPS numbers:

 

1.) Fights against several enemies in a PVP match/raid

Spreading dots with Smash will greatly increase your DPS, the Anni Marauder is a strong AOE class.

If you use a different attack instead of Smash while standing in the middle of a group of enemies your damage output goes down.

Many people think the Anni Marauder is crap in PVP just because they use a single target rotation.

 

2.) Fights against a single enemy in a PVP match/raid

There are a lot of abilities that increase the energy level in a real fight, in most cases energy management is not a big issue.

You need to adapt the substitute attack to your energy level, Force Scream has has the highest priority. If your energy level is low a weaker attack (Slash or Smash) is used.

 

You will reduce your DPS if you don’t substitute Smash with a better attack (despite there is plenty of energy available).

The loss of Damage per Second can be calculated, its: (Damage_ForceScream - Damage_Smash)/12

 

3.) Testdummy

Some game mechanics that provide energy in raids and PVP matches do not work at the testdummy. (e.g. only 1 Force Leap, Cloak of Rage, Brazen does not reduce the cooldown of Berserk, dots affect only 1 enemy, there are more ...)

The energy level is completely different compared to raids, at the testdummy energy is a constraint that leads to weaker attacks.

 

For parses at the testdummy replace the 3 Smashes with 3 Slashes as placeholders.

Force Choke (in combination with perk “Strangulate”) also serves as substitute, the additional energy will allow to use Force Screams more often (instead of Slash).

-

There is an alternative way to figure out the damage potential (raid/pvp) against a single enemy:

Do not replace Smash, even the available energy would allow this.

The formular (Damage_ForceScream - Damage_Smash)/12 can also be used to calculate the additional DPS if there is enough energy to use Force Screams on cooldown.

 

----------------------

 

A specialised testdummy rotation would look different to the one I posted:

- Using Battering Assault after (or close after) its cooldown of 10 GCDs would have a high priority. In a raid the additional sources of energy would lead to frequent overflows of energy, using Battering Assault too often will reduce your DPS.

- Smash is avoided at the testdummy. Without dotspreading in raids or PVP this class is crippled.

- Relevant cooldowns are 6, 8, 10 and 12, this would lead to a very long and unpractical rotation.

 

That alternative rotation would not perform well in raids or pvp matches, I am not interested in writing a specialised testdummy rotation.

I want to play the game.

 

----------------------

 

My subscription ends, I will not be able to access the forum to answer questions. I will return after patch 5.0 is released and adapt the rotation. There are only small changes for this class, the new rotation will look similar to this one.

 

Scaeva, TRE

Edited October 31, 2016 by salaciousc

[Ardarell_Solo]

It is possible to delay a stack of Deadly Saber twice before it fades out.

 

Technically speaking, you can even delay it four times: By using Force Melt, Force Sweep, Force Stasis and Blade Storm, as these are all non saber attacks.

 

However, it is a plain dps loss, if you do it more than once per application circle: If you do, the next application circle does not start with the first attack after activating OS, because your last stack will still be running on the target. And as long as that's the case, you can not apply any stacks at all. This results in a very much delayed application of OS stacks resulting in a massive loss of dps - also because of delaying building centering.

[Ardarell_Solo]

I experimented a bit with that suggestion and it's a massive loss of dps (roundabout 600 in 224 gear). The raid version of that rotation has several problems that are rooted in the fact, that some assumptions are mere assumptions and have not actually been calculated. The main culprit being the low priority of Merciless Slash, which happens to be the second best ability regarding DPS per activation per GCD right after Overload Saber and way ahead of the two dots that are prioritized in the proposed rotation. This is not surpassed by any of the effects tied to dots - this is not even considering that Merciless Slash's debuff is a severe buff to the whole group's dps and should therefore always be applied asap, especially when starting a fight and all 4 dps players' raid buffs, adrenals and burst rotations are rolling.

 

Here's dps per activation for the specc (full 224 gear) in the classical rotation, assuming Overload Saber is always prolonged for its last stack and Zen is always used at that last stack of Overload Saber (I strongly advise against using Zen prematurely, it's always a dps loss):

 

Overload Saber: 16680

Merciless Slash: 15560

Cauterize (instant damage + dot): 9870

Force Melt: 9560

Dispatch: 7100

Blade Dance (calculated down to 1 GCD): 6760

Blade Storm: 5300

Slash: 5100

Zealous Strike: 2880

Strike: 2350

Force Leap: 1900

 

Another misconception: Force Sweep does not cost less focus than Slash, since Slash refunds one of the three focus it requires, so it actually costs 2 focus just like Force Sweep, but does way more damage -> Never use Force Sweep on single targets. Especially not to delay Overload Saber stacks, as you only want to do that with Foce Melt, since, as already explained above, delaying stacks more than once per OS circle will destroy your application process as a whole.

 

Don't use Force Leap in your rotation except for target switching. Strike will get you three focus just like leap most of the times for the 4 hits it does (as compared to just on on leap) and the effect of getting focus for critical hits on burning targets.

 

Only user Double Saber Throw it the proc is up.

 

 

Generally I advise against putting fixed rotations on your quickbar in raids. Specc should be played in a priority system imo and that's what I'd advise players to put on their quickbar. Mine looks like this:

 

First row:

Overload Saber | Merciless Slash | Force Melt | Cauterize | Blade Dance | Dispatch | Double Saber Throw | Blade Storm | Slash...

 

Second row:

Zealous Strike | Force Leap | Assault | Force Sweep...

 

What you do is use stuff that is available in the first row and use your focus building abilities in second row planning ahead to have enough focus for what's coming up in your first row.

 

Cauterize is obviously only used when its dot runs out on your target.

 

Why is Cauterize not placed left to Melt, even though its dps per activation is higher?

-> Cause you want to get into a pattern like

 

Merciless Slash

Melt

Cauterize

Filler (Melt)

Filler

Filler (Melt)

 

with Cauterize in that fixed spot, so Melt can "move" through the pattern. This is also possible with Cauterize in the GCD before last, which then will result in:

 

Merciless Slash

Melt

Filler

Filler (Melt)

Cauterize

Filler (Melt)

 

However, when changing to a new target, you will not wait to use dots in those exact spots, you will use them asap, assuming Merciless Slash is not available, which will always be your first choice. So many times Cauterize will actually be the first ability you use, since its always available. But if later on either Merciless Slash or Melt are available in the spot where Cauterize dot runs out, you need to use Merciless or Melt first for max dps. So you will eventually "fall" into one of the patterns described above.

 

Blade Dance is prioritized over Dispatch on the quickbar since it's important to use if you have 2 GCDs for it available, Dispatch only takes one GCD. And Dispatch + filler is less DPS than two GCDs of Blade Dance.

 

Also never us Blade Storm during Overload Saber application, except you don't have Melt to prolong stacks.

 

It's true that Watchman is a very strong AoE spec. You can check my guide for the best rotation for that, it gives you hilarious numbers on long living adds like ToS. You should always switch to AoE rotation for stuff like that.

 

If you're only about splash AoE damage while you should actually do strong sustained dps on the main target (which is the best way to deal with mechanics in most fights, except you're trying to pad numbers, which is bad Sentinel playing), then you just use Force Sweep as highest priority after seamless dot application. You can tab through targets to see which does not yet have one of your dots running and Force Sweep it to re-spread dots running on other targets if you must. On fights like Draxus (or for bad PvP opponents who do you the favour of standing grouped together) just go for the AoE trick rotation listed in my guide.