pheuno Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I love those 1% dmg reduction for 1 talent point and as a tank you have to take 4 of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Our Talents in the shield line are pretty bad for PVP, The absolute best PVP defensive talent we get period is in the Offensive Tree (20% reduced damage while stunned is simply amazing compared to the entire defensive tree) When ya consider by going 10/31/0 builds you end up with less defense slightly but massive offense it's really quite sad. Right now, I only miss 2 talents out of the Shield line, Jet Charge, and the root on my grapple.. That's it.. everything else in the top portion of the line is complete **** in comparison. Like i've said, if you want to absolutely crap on someone, Grab either Offensive or Defensive PVP gear, spec the build i said, and run Ion as your buff. You'll eat people alive while being Tanky at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I have had great success with hybrid builds in every mmo I have ever played in a pvp setting. wow, war, aoc, and etc. These hybrid builds usually work so well that they inevitably get nerfed and/or have the trees changed around in order to make getting, what you call, "gimmicks" all but impossible. This is the whole point of "hybrids", pretty much. You can make them do certain things ridiculously well, by cherry picking similar things from different trees. Basically you're choosing things that, say, help CC or AoE from every single tree possible. You end up being ridiculously powerful at xyz compared to anyone else, and it inevitably gets nerfed, because developers don't like such "creative" thinking. While it makes the game much more fun for people like us, who like to screw around with different and often weird builds, it also makes the game a nightmare to balance. A game that will allow such builds, and never nerf, but instead balance them... I will play that forever. Edited December 29, 2011 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerovex Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This is the whole point of "hybrids", pretty much. You can make them do certain things ridiculously well, by cherry picking similar things from different trees. Basically you're choosing things that, say, help CC or AoE from every single tree possible. You end up being ridiculously powerful at xyz compared to anyone else, and it inevitably gets nerfed, because developers don't like such "creative" thinking. While it makes the game much more fun for people like us, who like to screw around with different and often weird builds, it also makes the game a nightmare to balance. A game that will allow such builds, and never nerf, but instead balance them... I will play that forever. Very true. I don't like games that make people create cookie cutter builds either. IMO if you have to go all the way down a tree to be effective than you might as well not have trees at all...for it's only an illusion of choice. It's no different than say choosing shield tech and having the game auto fill out your talents for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EbrisDhifi Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This is the whole point of "hybrids", pretty much. You can make them do certain things ridiculously well, by cherry picking similar things from different trees. Basically you're choosing things that, say, help CC or AoE from every single tree possible. You end up being ridiculously powerful at xyz compared to anyone else, and it inevitably gets nerfed, because developers don't like such "creative" thinking. While it makes the game much more fun for people like us, who like to screw around with different and often weird builds, it also makes the game a nightmare to balance. A game that will allow such builds, and never nerf, but instead balance them... I will play that forever. It's already happened in the beta with Powertechs. Originally, Oil Slick was higher up in the ST line, with Jet Charge being a Tier 3 (only 11 points to get) talent. This allowed players to get Hydraulic Overrides as well, which made for a ridiculous super mobile combo. It was especially crazy in Huttball, since there was essentially no way to stop the PT from scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingShadow Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I agree with you on Jet Charge. I love grapple, and I love jetcharge, but I would personally love to use jetcharge on an AP However, grapple does have its uses in PvP for APs, pulling that one ******* target...murdering him in a corner without interference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokt Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Our are talent trees so lame that we can't effectively tank endgame raids with DPS in full raid gear? If thats the case its a priority. If not, its probably middle of the queue among the many other things needing tuning in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 It's already happened in the beta with Powertechs. Originally, Oil Slick was higher up in the ST line, with Jet Charge being a Tier 3 (only 11 points to get) talent. This allowed players to get Hydraulic Overrides as well, which made for a ridiculous super mobile combo. It was especially crazy in Huttball, since there was essentially no way to stop the PT from scoring. Yeah I remember that, I don't remember having any issues with it in Huttball. Half the time he'd have resolve up at that point anyway. I also don't realize how they thought Jet Charge was the problem there instead of Hydraulic Overrides. Hydraulic Overrides is an absolutely ridiculous way to make up for not having a proper gap closer. A 30 second cooldown that essentially puts you in resolve mode without actually eating your resolve is definitely a contender for the most powerful single talent point you can spend in this game. I still think the better thing to do would be to swap grapple into the Tanking tree and make Jet Charge baseline. Every BH has a Jetpack clearly visible on their armor, if anything is the special tanking gizmo to be confined to a tree it ought to be Grapple. Jet Charge was worth giving up damage for at 11 points. For some, it is worth giving up a LOT of damage for at 21 points. Grapple at 21 points and the tanks would still have it -- for pulling, mob organization during FPs, and initiation during PvP -- but most DPS players would be happier with Jet Charge and not bother. Having to rely on Grapple in PvP can be pretty frustrating, but it is as DPS in PvE where it really falls apart. Watching other classes leap in or be right on target with stealth and Force Speed while you run up whistling a happy tune and blasting with your pea shooter is really lame. I really love this game but the weird decisions they've made and their knee-jerk overnerf of Slicing (which did need some adjustment, but they went really overboard) makes me think it is going to be a really rocky 6 months before they get used to the MMO game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Jet charge was a trainer skill for 95% of beta, all powertechs got it. Why they chose to remove some of the better tree skills to be replaced with previous trainer skills is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Jet charge was a trainer skill for 95% of beta, all powertechs got it. Why they chose to remove some of the better tree skills to be replaced with previous trainer skills is beyond me. I only got in for the weekends here and there. Sounds like I missed all the fun stuff. It also sounds like we got a pretty major overhaul not long before launch (aside from the last minute tree changes). We'll see how that works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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