Playing a Dark Jedi Vs. Light Sith

[Mindelmatrix]

Story-wise, what seems to be more fun, playing a Dark Jedi or a Light Sith. I was going include the other classes, but I feel those classes seem to be more neutral and can lean in either direction, as oppose to Sith and Jedi, who's classes are encouraged towards the extreme opposing sides.

[ZanyaCross]

Dark Jedi honestly felt a bit uncomfortable given how much you can abuse Kira. Way to go, Bioware, this is the first game I ever played that rewarded negging. Given all the fallen jedi you straight-up murder she's probably convinced herself she loves you just to avoid possible execution given her history.

 

Light side sith, on the other hand still felt satisfying. You can still a passion-fueled rage-monster, and can royally screw with your enemies, but you're directing your anger and destruction at corrupt elements, in the Empire and the Republic, bettering the Empire as a whole over just yourself or the sith. It's a nice path if you like anti-heroes or the "noble demon" trope.

[MadDutchman]

I don't find pure dark Jedi work very well. Little dark here and there really adds flavour to them, but going all out is just weird.

 

Light Sith however work quite well I find.

[Limariko]

Having played both types in each class, I've enjoyed the Light Sith far more than Dark Jedi.

 

With Light Sith, you're more pragmatic and Machiavellian than the expected psychotic maniac so you're constantly throwing everyone around you for a loop. You still have your ruthless moments, however they're not so much on a whim for for the giggles but more there is a solid reason that doesn't bite you in the *** later on for it.

 

Dark Jedi, while I did find it hysterical to see the Olympics level of mental gymnastics the other Jedi go through to justify your actions, and there are times where you get Sith asking you if you're sure you're on the right side, it just wasn't a constant fun go like the Light Sith runs were. Granted with my Dark Jedi I was doing a Ls0/Ds5 run, it was pretty much a slog that once I dinged the Ds5 legacy achievement, I swore I'd never do those types of runs again.

[BlazeTomahawk]

Totally LS Sith. Dark Jedi are just a laugh. I tried a Consular and it made no sense whatsoever

[OfficerDonNZ]

Dark and Jedi shouldn't be used together, ever. A little dark here and there is alright if it's logical and makes sense which it usually doesn't.

 

Light Side Sith on the other is fun to play and something I really enjoy.

[ZanyaCross]

Dark and Jedi shouldn't be used together, ever. A little dark here and there is alright if it's logical and makes sense which it usually doesn't.

 

Light Side Sith on the other is fun to play and something I really enjoy.

 

It's possible to do a character like that well. I've had some experience with paladins in D&D/Pathfinder. You can totally make a Jedi who is so dedicated to the cause that they become intolerant and inflexible, seeking to purge evil at all costs rather than try and redeem it. About 2/3 of my guy's decisions earned DS points, and over time I RP'd him wearing a mask and gleaming white armor to hide the horrible corruption, which he justifies as a "necessary sacrifice for the greater good" as he passes judgement and sentence on everything he runs into.

 

The only thing that kinda squicked me out is that you can still romance Kira after verbally tearing her down in front of the entire Jedi council. Bioware kinda needs to learn that relationships don't work on a point system.

 

CEO: So, how's your new assistant working out?

You: Oh, she's terrible. I found out she has a questionable background and I wouldn't even trust her to make coffee at this point. You should totally fire her.

Assistant:

CEO: Oh, well, sorry to hear that but we're kinda short-staffed so you'll have to find a way to work together for now.

You: *turns to assistant* So, wanna go out later? Also, this slave outfit will be your new uniform from now on.

Assistant: Dfdkljfsdjfklj!!!!!!

 

Actually, now I'm kinda imagining all the female comps in a Wreck It Ralph kinda situation, where they all get together in therapy depressed over some of the awful player decisions they've had to endure, and off in a corner is Quinn getting his spine realigned after the millionth time getting force choke-slammed into a wall.

Edited August 27, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[OfficerDonNZ]

It's possible to do a character like that well. I've had some experience with paladins in D&D/Pathfinder. You can totally make a Jedi who is so dedicated to the cause that they become intolerant and inflexible, seeking to purge evil at all costs rather than try and redeem it. About 2/3 of my guy's decisions earned DS points, and over time I RP'd him wearing a mask and gleaming white armor to hide the horrible corruption, which he justifies as a "necessary sacrifice for the greater good" as he passes judgement and sentence on everything he runs into.

 

Well if you want to take the D&D Paladin comparison to its conclusion then your DS JK would be considered a Blackguard. I could never be mean to Kira she's just to damn cute.

[Spetulhu]

Dark Jedi honestly felt a bit uncomfortable.

 

Light side sith, on the other hand still felt satisfying.

 

I'd have to agree with this.

 

Some few of the DS choices for Jedi make sense in a way - like the Knight defeating an indoctrinated (turned) Jedi and deciding he's too dangerous to keep around waiting for redemption. Ruthless sense but at least some sense. Many other DS choices are just jerk choices, for example demanding rewards from civilians you're supposed to protect as part of your Jedi duty.

 

Meanwhile many LS choices for Sith make perfect sense if you see your character more as a manipulator and/or charismatic leader than a kill-them-all dominator demanding obedience or else. My main Sith Warrior started a bit dark but quickly came to appreciate the power and influence to be gained by not killing everyone, for example. Sure, a dead enemy is dead and no further threat - but he also can't be made to serve you or (if Republic) go home and tell others that yes, this Sith actually let you surrender instead of fighting to the death. No ordinary Rep soldier is going to pose a threat to my Wrath ofc, but if they know they can surrender instead of my troops always killing everyone I too will lose less resources! What a novel concept!

[cool-dude]

Dark Jedi makes absolutely no sense.

Light side Sith with dark here and there is Darth Vader.

Edited August 27, 2016 by cool-dude

[ZanyaCross]

Light side Sith with dark here and there is Darth Vader.

 

Wat

[Cedia]

I played my Consular as dark, and I was surprised how easy it was to justify it as "the needs of the many are worth more than the needs of the few".

[Sage_of_Battle]

Pure dark Jedi honestly made me feel like a playground bully. And the lines that had no force alignment, that were aggressive or negative dialogue choices just came out as flat, immature, and badly thought up. Really just didn't mesh well. Don't know if it was the voice actor choice(David Hayter felt so vanilla for Knight) as there were plenty of other Jedi voice actors that would've brought a bit more grittiness to the character or if it was just the script of the story, but it just felt unnatural. I mean, you're murdering everyone in your way and the dark side is clearly radiating inside of you and the council just kinda keeps sending you out to complete missions which result in everyone dying. Odd.

 

Meanwhile, the light sided Sith felt more like a Sith loyal to the Empire. You still felt very much like Sith, but Sith not hellbent on back stabbing everyone to further your own goals, and more like a Sith with the betterment of the Empire in mind. An intelligent Sith.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sage_of_Battle

[Limariko]

Pure dark Jedi honestly made me feel like a playground bully. And the lines that had no force alignment, that were aggressive or negative dialogue choices just came out as flat, immature, and badly thought up. Really just didn't mesh well. Don't know if it was the voice actor choice(David Hayter felt so vanilla for Knight) as there were plenty of other Jedi voice actors that would've brought a bit more grittiness to the character or if it was just the script of the story, but it just felt unnatural. I mean, you're murdering everyone in your way and the dark side is clearly radiating inside of you and the council just kinda keeps sending you out to complete missions which result in everyone dying. Odd.

 

Meanwhile, the light sided Sith felt more like a Sith loyal to the Empire. You still felt very much like Sith, but Sith not hellbent on back stabbing everyone to further your own goals, and more like a Sith with the betterment of the Empire in mind. An intelligent Sith.

 

What helped me grit my teeth through my Ds5 Jedi slog was looking at it as the Jedi overall during this era had bought into their spiel particularly hard and were more prone to being in denial about anything not fitting their interpretation. Kinda like how in the prequels the Council being blind to the possibility of the Chosen One's bringing balance to the Force resulting in something not so good for the Jedi.

 

As it is in game, we have these examples from off the top of my head:

 

Master Timm's letter if the Sith Warrior worked with him on taking down Baras' sister. He states that when he debriefed the Jedi Council they were in debate for hours and having trouble accepting the concept of a reasonable Sith.

 

Yadira Ban in the Black Talon flashpoint where no matter how much you try to talk reason to her to avoid fighting, she is adamant that you are evil.

 

The two Jedi Nomen Karr sends against the Warrior where as you're trying to talk reason to them, they're trying to justify fighting to the point you can even call them out on trying to rationalize it.

 

Ashara's masters where no matter how much you explain that you mean them no harm and will take care of their Force ghost problem, the mere fact you're a Sith is the equivalent of blasphemy and they attack.

 

 

It's as if the Jedi have built up for so long that they're the good guys who are completely in the Light, they've also fallen prey to that absolutism they accuse the Dark side/Sith of. They can't quite handle the concept of Light sided Sith or anyone not following the Light/Dark dichotomy interpretation of the Force as well as can't comprehend a Jedi being dark sided while not being overt about it.

[Rolodome]

Only done chapter 1 dark JK so far (did LS the last time) but it's been pretty fun. I just designed my character as a twisted person from the start and went with it.

 

Really depends on what you find fun. I found that LS sith was more intriguing than fun... it's sort of a fascinating thing sometimes, to watch the guy/girl who's supposed to be a dark lord doing something so nice and then see how the NPCs might react to that. But is it as fun? For me, I'd say I have more memories of fun with dark JK than light SW.

 

I haven't done a light SI playthrough, but doing 100% light SW just feels so... vanilla. Like, there are all these opportunities to play up the power fantasy in such a great story for it and you just kinda don't.

[OfficerDonNZ]

Dark Jedi makes absolutely no sense.

Light side Sith with dark here and there is Darth Vader.

 

Um no, just no. Vader killed everyone in the Jedi Temple even the younglings there is no way that's the actions of an LS Sith. He also had a nasty habit of Force choking anyone he thought was incompetent. Vader racked up quite the body count before Luke appeared on the scene and even then he didn't change that much.

[psandak]

I played my Consular as dark, and I was surprised how easy it was to justify it as "the needs of the many are worth more than the needs of the few".

 

This. And using Qyzen as your primary companion, he agrees with you most of the time. And even later in the story when you get Nadia, even she agrees with dark choices

Edited August 27, 2016 by psandak

[Sage_of_Battle]

What helped me grit my teeth through my Ds5 Jedi slog was looking at it as the Jedi overall during this era had bought into their spiel particularly hard and were more prone to being in denial about anything not fitting their interpretation. Kinda like how in the prequels the Council being blind to the possibility of the Chosen One's bringing balance to the Force resulting in something not so good for the Jedi.

 

As it is in game, we have these examples from off the top of my head:

 

Master Timm's letter if the Sith Warrior worked with him on taking down Baras' sister. He states that when he debriefed the Jedi Council they were in debate for hours and having trouble accepting the concept of a reasonable Sith.

 

Yadira Ban in the Black Talon flashpoint where no matter how much you try to talk reason to her to avoid fighting, she is adamant that you are evil.

 

The two Jedi Nomen Karr sends against the Warrior where as you're trying to talk reason to them, they're trying to justify fighting to the point you can even call them out on trying to rationalize it.

 

Ashara's masters where no matter how much you explain that you mean them no harm and will take care of their Force ghost problem, the mere fact you're a Sith is the equivalent of blasphemy and they attack.

 

 

It's as if the Jedi have built up for so long that they're the good guys who are completely in the Light, they've also fallen prey to that absolutism they accuse the Dark side/Sith of. They can't quite handle the concept of Light sided Sith or anyone not following the Light/Dark dichotomy interpretation of the Force as well as can't comprehend a Jedi being dark sided while not being overt about it.

 

That's certainly a good way to get through such a slog as getting to Ds5 Jedi. After all, Jedi have fallen prey to their absolution more than a few times. If I'm not mistaken(not too familiar with legends continuity that goes this far back) but the Sith were essentially formed from the Jedi's inability to accept different point of views to the force, right? They drew the line and essentially said "our way or death" if I remember correctly.

 

What Zanya also said is a good way to look at it. An over-zealous crusader of the light essentially seeing redemption and destruction as one in the same. Once you're tainted, your only redemption is to be destroyed. Not a terrible way of looking at it. Might actually try this with a primarily(Ds5 is a bit too much)dark side Knight again. Now if only I could get something similar looking to a Crusader Knight's bucket helm.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sage_of_Battle

[Soulbardminstrel]

I've played DS Consular, and after a while, managed to get a 'Traya-esque' thing going. Did a choice make the Republic more reliant on me? If yes, I took it. If it gave me power/credits I took it. If it sent gang/criminals to freedom instead of to justice, I let them go.

 

It was fun!

 

DS JK on the other hand, I played as a Sith Infiltrator (admittedly, on behalf of a member of my Legacy.) and it's weird how so many choices can fit into that 'story';

 

 

 

Letting Bengel Morr go.

Killing all of the Jedi Masters in Chapter 3,

VOSS ENDING (Sweet lord the DS Voss Ending)

Mind-Slave Tol Braga

 

 

I preferred Neutral SI, to be honest. I could hoard power AND defend the Empire at once. I could make (and did!) a lot of allies, whilst still wiping out the Republic.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Soulbardminstrel

[Limariko]

That's certainly a good way to get through such a slog as getting to Ds5 Jedi. After all, Jedi have fallen prey to their absolution more than a few times. If I'm not mistaken(not too familiar with legends continuity that goes this far back) but the Sith were essentially formed from the Jedi's inability to accept different point of views to the force, right? They drew the line and essentially said "our way or death" if I remember correctly.

 

What Zanya also said is a good way to look at it. An over-zealous crusader of the light essentially seeing redemption and destruction as one in the same. Once you're tainted, your only redemption is to be destroyed. Not a terrible way of looking at it. Might actually try this with a primarily(Ds5 is a bit too much)dark side Knight again. Now if only I could get something similar looking to a Crusader Knight's bucket helm.

 

If I'm remembering rightly, the Jedi/Dark Jedi schism had been building up from debate over how to interpret the Force and rather than nail a 95 Theses to the Jedi Temple door, it ended with depending on who one asked either the Dark Jedi starting to create lifeforms or twist lifeforms into unnatural things. From there each side entrenched themselves into believing they were in the right and it's mostly been that ever since. As we're only presented with a Jedi/Sith perspective of the Force, we're left mostly clueless regarding any other interpretation of the Force. We know there are cultures who don't subscribe to the Dark/Light dichotomy and for all the Jedi worries about the Voss, they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves.

 

But that's more for if we were discussing the nature of the Force and if it's malleable enough to be affected by interpretations.

 

As far as a classic crusader type helm, while some of the ancient sith helmets are suitably buckety enough, none of them that I've seen are close faced to pull off the look.

[dupmeister]

Actually, now I'm kinda imagining all the female comps in a Wreck It Ralph kinda situation, where they all get together in therapy depressed over some of the awful player decisions they've had to endure, and off in a corner is Quinn getting his spine realigned after the millionth time getting force choke-slammed into a wall.

 

that part had me crying, I was laughing so hard I can so see that, especially the Quin part, my warrior is so mean to him:

Me:"Quinn, Rub my feet and tell me how lucky you are"

Quinn: Does my lord think this will help the mission some how?

Me: She does, now rub.

 

As for Dark Jedi and light Sith, I think With Warriors, the Dark works better because they were raised up in it, in the beginning they talk about how Sith runs in their blood so we can easily believe they have been indoctrinated all their life for this. So going full on dark for them makes sense for them. That being said, there is only so long that I can play my warrior before I need a break.

 

The Inquisitor on the other hand seems perfectly suited for Light Sith. this is a character that was raised as a slave so he or she may accept the System but they certainly don't appreciate it. It is easy to believe that even though they are given a chance to elevate themselves, they still have a moral compass. With my Inquisitor, she bows her head to the Darths and would never let her mask slip, its all yes Lord, of course Lord. but when she is in the field, she sees no need to kill unless its in defence or the only way to complete the mission. And yes you can go the same way with a warrior, I just find that the warrior's privileged background lends itself better to darker and more selfish choices.

 

Dark Jedi on the other hand feels like I am wearing my shoes on the wrong feet. I can justify a handful of darker choices, like getting revenge or option to solve a situation by attacking rather then negotiating but most of the darker choices just dont fit.

Edited August 29, 2016 by dupmeister

[Limariko]

As for Dark Jedi and light Sith, I think With Warriors, the Dark works better because they were raised up in it, in the beginning they talk about how Sith runs in their blood so we can easily believe they have been indoctrinated all their life for this. So going full on dark for them makes sense for them. That being said, there is only so long that I can play my warrior before I need a break.

 

The Inquisitor on the other hand seems perfectly suited for Light Sith. this is a character that was raised as a slave so he or she may accept the System but they certainly don't appreciate it. It is easy to believe that even though they are given a chance to elevate themselves, they still have a moral compass. With my Inquisitor, she bows her head to the Darths and would never let her mask slip, its all yes Lord, of course Lord. but when she is in the field, she sees no need to kill unless its in defence or the only way to complete the mission. And yes you can go the same way with a warrior, I just find that the warrior's privileged background lends itself better to darker and more selfish choices.

.

 

A factor I like to consider that I haven't seen many others look into, but that could be just because how many Sith and Sith Purebloods I've played over the years is thinking into what differences are there between Sith: The Species and Sith: The Order. Too often, especially through the Jedi perspective, they see both as the same thing when they're really not. We've seen plenty of examples in game of the Order ranging from calculating to giggling while slaughtering babies, puppies and kittens, but we don't see many examples of how the Sith species looks at the world around them. First example off the top of my head's Lord Praven who's big about duty and honor. There's also Lord Vowrawn who's all for an Empire more focused on unity and loyalty.

 

That makes me think the Sith species on their own aren't the 'let's hold a blood orgy after massacring this village' type of Force User but are probably more centered around honor, duty, loyalty, and challenging oneself for improvement while not restricting embracing their emotions. This also makes me think when the Dark Jedi first enslaved the Sith species, they did a severe number on them with all the mind manipulation, genetic tweaking, and forced interbreeding.

[Montferrand]

that part had me crying, I was laughing so hard I can so see that, especially the Quin part, my warrior is so mean to him:

Me:"Quinn, Rub my feet and tell me how lucky you are"

Quinn: Does my lord think this will help the mission some how?

Me: She does, now rub.

 

As for Dark Jedi and light Sith, I think With Warriors, the Dark works better because they were raised up in it, in the beginning they talk about how Sith runs in their blood so we can easily believe they have been indoctrinated all their life for this. So going full on dark for them makes sense for them. That being said, there is only so long that I can play my warrior before I need a break.

 

The Inquisitor on the other hand seems perfectly suited for Light Sith. this is a character that was raised as a slave so he or she may accept the System but they certainly don't appreciate it. It is easy to believe that even though they are given a chance to elevate themselves, they still have a moral compass. With my Inquisitor, she bows her head to the Darths and would never let her mask slip, its all yes Lord, of course Lord. but when she is in the field, she sees no need to kill unless its in defence or the only way to complete the mission. And yes you can go the same way with a warrior, I just find that the warrior's privileged background lends itself better to darker and more selfish choices.

 

Dark Jedi on the other hand feels like I am wearing my shoes on the wrong feet. I can justify a handful of darker choices, like getting revenge or option to solve a situation by attacking rather then negotiating but most of the darker choices just dont fit.

 

I would say the opposite. SI fits more with the Dark Side, and Warrior with the "Light" Side.

 

First, let's say that Light Sith is rather an oxymoron. Dark is always more logical as a Sith as Light is as a Jedi. To be honest, the LS choices that we may take as Sith have less to do with benevolence (that are usually associated with Light) than honour and patriotism. More often than not, we get LS points by choosing the best outcome for the Empire as a whole rather than for ourselves.

 

With that in mind, I think the "Light" Warrior is more logical. As you said, he is part of the system since his birth. That means that he may be more attached to the Empire. So he may have a more patriotic stance than the SI. He probably is more educated, had more time to reflect on the system and see its flaws, and thus have desires for reform. He may have developped a warrior's ethic and a sense of honour. Maybe. I play my Warrior as a lightsider, although I'm not afraid to get some DS points when my victim has wronged me or the Empire, is clearly a bad guy or a coward. Sith are not made to be knights in shining armour...

 

The Inquisitor, on the other hand, has been raised as a slave. He was raised in a climate of violence, fear, want. He probably had to fight for scrapes to survive. It's easy to hate your masters, to desire revenge in that kind of climate. His ethics are more about the ends than justify the means. Fear, anger, hate, they all lead to the Dark Side. And since he was born at the bottom of the scales (even under that), he may not be the most patriotic Sith.

 

As for Jedi, Light vs Dark is really the traditional Good vs Evil. So it feels more awkward to play a Dark Jedi, especially when you are working directly for the Jedi Council. They would certainly notice that you chose a dark path, so it's less rewarding.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Montferrand

[eldefail]

I don't find pure dark Jedi work very well. Little dark here and there really adds flavour to them, but going all out is just weird.

 

Light Sith however work quite well I find.

 

This was my experience with the consular. My dark side consular finished act 1 but I rerolled before starting act II. Why? Because the writer wrote for a light side character and I found many dark side choices were less nuanced than some of the Empire's dark side choices, and were basically evil for evil's sake and pointless chaotic stupid level dark and crazy. Not only that, but the Consular story at least failed to maintain continuity of dark side choices, up to and including some people the Consular killed still being acknowledged as alive and well at the end of act 1.

 

It was basically either play light side jedi, even with a little bit of edge and grittiness (aka a few of the more rational dark side choices here and there) or a complete lunatic with little actual story coherency and continuity to even acknowledge your wildly different and completely unintended archetype that was shoehorned in obviously only because other class stories had dark side dialogue options as well.

 

The consular, at least, was clearly written for a more traditional Jedi archetype, meaning a neutral to light side character. A Qui-gon or Obi Wan. It was still fun, dark-side-because-shut-up choices are always good laughs, but if you want a compelling story you'll probably get better results from a light side sith (which also has its flaws) than a dark jedi.

[Montferrand]

This was my experience with the consular. My dark side consular finished act 1 but I rerolled before starting act II. Why? Because the writer wrote for a light side character and I found many dark side choices were less nuanced than some of the Empire's dark side choices, and were basically evil for evil's sake and pointless chaotic stupid level dark and crazy. Not only that, but the Consular story at least failed to maintain continuity of dark side choices, up to and including some people the Consular killed still being acknowledged as alive and well at the end of act 1.

 

It was basically either play light side jedi, even with a little bit of edge and grittiness (aka a few of the more rational dark side choices here and there) or a complete lunatic with little actual story coherency and continuity to even acknowledge your wildly different and completely unintended archetype that was shoehorned in obviously only because other class stories had dark side dialogue options as well.

 

The consular, at least, was clearly written for a more traditional Jedi archetype, meaning a neutral to light side character. A Qui-gon or Obi Wan. It was still fun, dark-side-because-shut-up choices are always good laughs, but if you want a compelling story you'll probably get better results from a light side sith (which also has its flaws) than a dark jedi.

 

I play my Consular as a female Togruta. Unfortunately, I find the voice actress a bit boring, especially when I take the more goody-two-shoes and spiritual answers. So, I have decided to take number 2 and number 3 conversation choices (unless they are too dark), but I consistently make LS choices when there are LS/DS points. She ends up being that snappy, down to earth but good-hearted Jedi. I feel like Professor McGonagall...

Edited August 29, 2016 by Montferrand