FlavivsAetivs Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) We sort of start officially seeing modern star wars with KotOR and some of the EU stuff talks a little about minor advances (e.g. advances in reactor design made small warships like the Hammerhead and Thranta far more powerful for their size which for a while made large dreadnaughts relatively obsolete. This is why the Hammerhead survives until Darth Bane's era as the premier capital warship of the republic, along with how easy it was to retrofit). If you go back to Exar Kun's era, just 50ish years before KotOR in the Tales of the Jedi Comics, you can see it transforming into the Star Wars style we know and love. I can understand a few purge survivors, but there were too many, I agree. Although there were 7000 Jedi at the start of the clone wars, of which about 200+ died on Geonosis. A lot survived the purge but were allegedly all hunted down by Vader. As for the Rakata, their technology is force based and still more advanced. Comparing the Rakata to the Roman Empire is illogical. The Romans didn't use any exotic techonology, although they did invent the mechanical computer (Antikythera device) and they had Liquid Fire (sort of like Napalm). Like someone else said, the Rakata stuff in this game is more like the Ancient Aliens guy going out on an archaeological expedition to the Pyramids and digging up a UFO. (Insert mandatory "Aliens" meme.) ~ Eudoxia Edited August 2, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 As for the Rakata, their technology is force based and still more advanced. Comparing the Rakata to the Roman Empire is illogical. The Romans didn't use any exotic techonology, although they did invent the mechanical computer (Antikythera device) and they had Liquid Fire (sort of like Napalm). Like someone else said, the Rakata stuff in this game is more like the Ancient Aliens guy going out on an archaeological expedition to the Pyramids and digging up a UFO. (Insert mandatory "Aliens" meme.) ~ Eudoxia But modern technology isn't even close with SW either. Why can't the later species develop even more advanced technology after thousands of years? It's not like the galaxy had suffered some huge blow to wipe out everything. The Jedi and Sith obviously have stronger grasp over the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 I can understand a few purge survivors, but there were too many, I agree. Although there were 7000 Jedi at the start of the clone wars, of which about 200+ died on Geonosis. A lot survived the purge but were allegedly all hunted down by Vader. ~ Eudoxia There should be ZERO besides Obi Wan and Yoda in the movie era, because it would badly damage the tragic sense of the Jedi Order, the importance of Luke and even very few survivors would be a big slap on Yoda's face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForfiniteStories Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) SWTOR should be a part of Star Wars because it is Star Wars. The Force Awakens, Rebels, and several other media don't regard the themselves to be a part of the same universe, hence they are not Star Wars. Just an entirely different franchise based off of it. If SWTOR ceases to be Star Wars, then it loses its main selling point. And then it's game over, man. Game over. Edited August 3, 2016 by ForfiniteStories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 SWTOR should be a part of Star Wars because it is Star Wars. The Force Awakens, Rebels, and several other media don't regard the themselves to be a part of the same universe, hence they are not Star Wars. Just an entirely different franchise based off of it. If SWTOR ceases to be Star Wars, then it loses its main selling point. And then it's game over, man. Game over. This... just doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If the EU is so bad why are they ripping it off?Thrawn appearing on rebels?discount Jaina and Jacen in a movie?seems the mental ginastics is Strong with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 If the EU is so bad why are they ripping it off?Thrawn appearing on rebels?discount Jaina and Jacen in a movie?seems the mental ginastics is Strong with this thread. Irony... Anyways, parts of the EU are actually really good. But a lot of it is over-the-top, over bloated, inconsistent smorgasborg of content that's more reminiscent of DBZ than anything regarding Star Wars. The only "mental gymnastics" here are the people talking in circles. They miss the EU and think it should never have been cut out>Proceeds to bash new Disney canon>Also proceeds to say how the Disney canon rips off the EU and how similar they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Irony... Anyways, parts of the EU are actually really good. But a lot of it is over-the-top, over bloated, inconsistent smorgasborg of content that's more reminiscent of DBZ than anything regarding Star Wars. The only "mental gymnastics" here are the people talking in circles. They miss the EU and think it should never have been cut out>Proceeds to bash new Disney canon>Also proceeds to say how the Disney canon rips off the EU and how similar they are. My point is this fandom war needs to stop,why not have both?keep the EU as na alternative universe and we're set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Irony... Anyways, parts of the EU are actually really good. But a lot of it is over-the-top, over bloated, inconsistent smorgasborg of content that's more reminiscent of DBZ than anything regarding Star Wars. The only "mental gymnastics" here are the people talking in circles. They miss the EU and think it should never have been cut out>Proceeds to bash new Disney canon>Also proceeds to say how the Disney canon rips off the EU and how similar they are. i will bash the new canon though,their whole excuse was that they wanted a clean slate,which i can understand,keep the EU as AU and make your own new thing,but so far they are ripping of,if they were going to use the EU why not kept the way it was?where's the clean slate they promised us?so far everything is a medíocre version of the EU,if you want to keep on being salty so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 i will bash the new canon though,their whole excuse was that they wanted a clean slate,which i can understand,keep the EU as AU and make your own new thing,but so far they are ripping of,if they were going to use the EU why not kept the way it was?where's the clean slate they promised us?so far everything is a medíocre version of the EU,if you want to keep on being salty so be it. The only one coming off as pretty standoffish and salty is you, considering you started your first comment with an indirect comment at intelligence. Again, it's just circles and circles with EU fans. First the new canon copies the OT too much, then they copy the EU. Or, and bear with me here, it's borrowing themes from both with it's own twist on things? Aka what happens with most entertainment nowadays? What, you think the EU is entirely original? Almost everything has been done to death already. Coming up with original ideas isn't exactly as easy as you think it is because if it was, you'd probably be coming up with an alternative instead of criticizing with no solution. The new material is too few and too new to judge, but so far it's doing fine. The EU is an AU. I agree that the fandom wars should stop but that obviously won't ever happen, just like every other fandom wars between fans. It's the Internet. But it's not like you're exactly leading with example with your opening comment. I was moreso trolling with previous comments but my opinion(yes, opinion, not fact) is that the EU was overbloated and just flat out unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 If the EU is so bad why are they ripping it off?Thrawn appearing on rebels?discount Jaina and Jacen in a movie?seems the mental ginastics is Strong with this thread. If I'm remembering the initial announcement rightly, when the EU was ruled not canon, they also stated certain elements of the EU could be brought back and likely would. This was easily drowned out in the massive wailing and gnashing of teeth that followed the announcement. If there's anything any fandom can be completely counted on, it's immediately assuming the utter worst and running with that at a speed to rival being in sock feet on a freshly waxed floor. It's no surprise that a compelling character like Thrawn would be brought back at some point and the same remains for other good parts of the old EU. Considering how much of a bloated awful mess the EU had become, it was long overdue for a culling and it's going to take a while for them to sift through all of that for the good stuff. Fandom is naturally going to bicker incessantly over what was good in the EU and what was awful, it's just one of those eternal parts of fandom in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 My point is this fandom war needs to stop,why not have both?keep the EU as na alternative universe and we're set. Because alternative universe will damage the SW universe' consistency and seriousness even more. Even the old EU never create any AU, that's one of the reasons why it's more consistent than most of the franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The majority of people don't know and don't care that something in Star Wars is "canon" or not. It's all fantasy. Everyone talking of "Wahh my ERP smuggler isn't canon" and everyone else saying "Wahh you're ripping off the EU make TOR canon too" nobody cares. You'll buy the next Star Wars movie, the next games, read the books, and then vent on various anonymous boards. The EU wasn't even that good anyways, like 5/100 stories were awesome and the rest were just wannabe authors trying to get some of that sweet IP money. A clean slate for Disney to make new stories is fine by me and if SWTOR isn't in that canon, oh well. To answer the OP's question. It doesn't matter, it's all fantasy anyways. Just make the stories fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage_of_Battle Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The majority of people don't know and don't care that something in Star Wars is "canon" or not. It's all fantasy. Everyone talking of "Wahh my ERP smuggler isn't canon" and everyone else saying "Wahh you're ripping off the EU make TOR canon too" nobody cares. You'll buy the next Star Wars movie, the next games, read the books, and then vent on various anonymous boards. The EU wasn't even that good anyways, like 5/100 stories were awesome and the rest were just wannabe authors trying to get some of that sweet IP money. A clean slate for Disney to make new stories is fine by me and if SWTOR isn't in that canon, oh well. To answer the OP's question. It doesn't matter, it's all fantasy anyways. Just make the stories fun. This. End of the day, "canon" is just a convenient word for people that take the lore a bit too seriously. VS debates are fine, but who cares if something is or isn't canon? Does it prevent you from enjoying it any more than you used to? My favorite SW game, Kotor 2, is now considered not canon. Doesn't mean I won't pick it up and play it at least once a year and enjoy the hell out of it. Besides, this paves the way for new content, and that always has potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Nor do i care about canon status,but i certainly think the EU deserved at least some respect in that regard,keep it as na alternate unvierse,the legends universe. if that is going to confuse the crap out of people explain how people handle Marvel MCU and the comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 The majority of people don't know and don't care that something in Star Wars is "canon" or not. It's all fantasy. Everyone talking of "Wahh my ERP smuggler isn't canon" and everyone else saying "Wahh you're ripping off the EU make TOR canon too" nobody cares. You'll buy the next Star Wars movie, the next games, read the books, and then vent on various anonymous boards. The EU wasn't even that good anyways, like 5/100 stories were awesome and the rest were just wannabe authors trying to get some of that sweet IP money. A clean slate for Disney to make new stories is fine by me and if SWTOR isn't in that canon, oh well. To answer the OP's question. It doesn't matter, it's all fantasy anyways. Just make the stories fun. So you assume i will buy everything because it's Star Wars? sure you might not like it but then again that is opinion territority,and yes SWTOR should not be in that canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 So you assume i will buy everything because it's Star Wars? sure you might not like it but then again that is opinion territority,and yes SWTOR should not be in that canon. I did not assume you would buy "everything" I'm saying you are not going to turn down a product because it isn't canon. However, Disney knows that if you slap Star Wars on something it has a higher chance of being bought. It has worked with the majority of products. Disney also knows that they can pick and choose whatever they want to become canon. Plus, if a director is going to work on a Star Wars movie, they need creative freedom. This is why Legends came to be, Disney wants to make new stories and not be restricted to what a bunch of mediocre authors did 10-20 years ago. I will concede that the importance of something being canon or not is an opinion, but I'm pretty sure the Legends/Canon decision had very little consequence to the majority of Star Wars fans. I honestly hope that parts of SWTOR do make it into the new canon as they can be explored further. I'm not talking about people's Sith Pureblood Jedi Knight, I'm talking about "An ancient Force entity that caused galactic turmoil Valkorion" or a character looks at a star chart and says "Zakuul used to be a galaxy spanning Empire." See what I did there? I gave a nod to people without making everything in TOR being canon. That would be a cool thing to happen and I expect that pieces of this game (if BW doesn't go overboard with their "epic" storytelling) will make it into the new canon. I am the opinion of I don't care if they do, would be cool if they did, but I won't poop my pants if they don't. I'm pretty sure the majority of fans in this IP are in the same boat as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I did not assume you would buy "everything" I'm saying you are not going to turn down a product because it isn't canon. However, Disney knows that if you slap Star Wars on something it has a higher chance of being bought. It has worked with the majority of products. Disney also knows that they can pick and choose whatever they want to become canon. Plus, if a director is going to work on a Star Wars movie, they need creative freedom. This is why Legends came to be, Disney wants to make new stories and not be restricted to what a bunch of mediocre authors did 10-20 years ago. I will concede that the importance of something being canon or not is an opinion, but I'm pretty sure the Legends/Canon decision had very little consequence to the majority of Star Wars fans. I honestly hope that parts of SWTOR do make it into the new canon as they can be explored further. I'm not talking about people's Sith Pureblood Jedi Knight, I'm talking about "An ancient Force entity that caused galactic turmoil Valkorion" or a character looks at a star chart and says "Zakuul used to be a galaxy spanning Empire." See what I did there? I gave a nod to people without making everything in TOR being canon. That would be a cool thing to happen and I expect that pieces of this game (if BW doesn't go overboard with their "epic" storytelling) will make it into the new canon. I am the opinion of I don't care if they do, would be cool if they did, but I won't poop my pants if they don't. I'm pretty sure the majority of fans in this IP are in the same boat as me. No,the timelines should not mixed,you said it yourself they needed creative freedom which is why legends came to be(not Worth it IMO since Force Awakens was overhyped and still is)yes you can nod at it but still doesn't make any less of a shameless ripoff,i can understand your point,do not agree with it though,and i'm on the boat of"just make legends AU and let me have my stuff,don't force Star Wars to be only your vision"didn't they did that with Marvel?why not with SW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 No,the timelines should not mixed,you said it yourself they needed creative freedom which is why legends came to be(not Worth it IMO since Force Awakens was overhyped and still is)yes you can nod at it but still doesn't make any less of a shameless ripoff,i can understand your point,do not agree with it though,and i'm on the boat of"just make legends AU and let me have my stuff,don't force Star Wars to be only your vision"didn't they did that with Marvel?why not with SW? TFA got some flaws, but overall it did ok, and it introduced SW to the new generation, to let the franchise live on. Without it, the EU is going to repeat with the same idea over and over again, the majority don't even read EU, then it's going to damage the SW franchise. It needs to live on rather than become fossil over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 TFA got some flaws, but overall it did ok, and it introduced SW to the new generation, to let the franchise live on. Without it, the EU is going to repeat with the same idea over and over again, the majority don't even read EU, then it's going to damage the SW franchise. It needs to live on rather than become fossil over time. Prequels also introduced a new generation to Star Wars,and the franchise was living on,there was great oportunity for movies without the need for a reboot. EU repeating itself=bad,Disney=ok yes the majority don't even read,but since you're at it why is Disney bothering to make na EU then?the majority doesn't read,it's so damaging to have books at the best seller list to give you sweet Money...so bad... and the LEGENDS wasn't making it live on?i myself only got interested in Star Wars after playing SWTOR and Reading through the legends continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Prequels also introduced a new generation to Star Wars,and the franchise was living on,there was great oportunity for movies without the need for a reboot. EU repeating itself=bad,Disney=ok yes the majority don't even read,but since you're at it why is Disney bothering to make na EU then?the majority doesn't read,it's so damaging to have books at the best seller list to give you sweet Money...so bad... and the LEGENDS wasn't making it live on?i myself only got interested in Star Wars after playing SWTOR and Reading through the legends continuity. And the prequel was a decade ago, its quality wasn't really good either, especially EP I and II. Why did Lucas make TCW? Because without movies, it's the only way to keep the influence of SW. EU could not attract the majority, movies can. It's simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 And the prequel was a decade ago, its quality wasn't really good either, especially EP I and II. Why did Lucas make TCW? Because without movies, it's the only way to keep the influence of SW. EU could not attract the majority, movies can. It's simple. The Force Awakens isn't that good either yet everyone is worshipping JJ for it,and i don't disagree the EU don't attract the majority,most of the majority don't care about Reading,but why not make a movie out of the book or just set 200 ABY so you can just spot a few references but overall have a new plotline and ETC?SImple isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 The Force Awakens isn't that good either yet everyone is worshipping JJ for it,and i don't disagree the EU don't attract the majority,most of the majority don't care about Reading,but why not make a movie out of the book or just set 200 ABY so you can just spot a few references but overall have a new plotline and ETC?SImple isn't it? Because it's overall ok as a sequel after nearly 40 years. At least the plot in TFA was much better than the post RotJ EU, with endless major threats, so many Jedi purge survivors, the new Jedi order being built so easily and the big three were still saving the galaxy in their 70s and quite a few bad decisions. Because the majority would not buy it it all? And why should they keep the post RotJ EU, it's the worst part of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Because it's overall ok as a sequel after nearly 40 years. At least the plot in TFA was much better than the post RotJ EU, with endless major threats, so many Jedi purge survivors, the new Jedi order being built so easily and the big three were still saving the galaxy in their 70s and quite a few bad decisions. Because the majority would not buy it it all? And why should they keep the post RotJ EU, it's the worst part of the EU. Really?endless major threats?Supreme Leader SNoke?STARKILLER BASE?not rinding a bell in your hypocrisy,and why the Jedi Order needs to simple be left like it was?would Luke really give up after 1 failure? So your rethoric is the majority would not buy it?why make the new EU then?let's only have movies,no needs for a new dawn,tarkin or lords of the sith am i right?who needs dark disciplies or aftermath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Really?endless major threats?Supreme Leader SNoke?STARKILLER BASE?not rinding a bell in your hypocrisy,and why the Jedi Order needs to simple be left like it was?would Luke really give up after 1 failure? So your rethoric is the majority would not buy it?why make the new EU then?let's only have movies,no needs for a new dawn,tarkin or lords of the sith am i right?who needs dark disciplies or aftermath... We got Snoke, SK base after so many years so what? Do we have major threats after major threats and tons of Superweapons poping out in less than 3 decades after RotJ? Because Luke got 0 experience and without much help, it's very hard to rebuild the organization? Because with the movie, people will get interested and read these materials, but the main focus is still the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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