Does SWTOR need to follow the old legend continuity?

[Slowpokeking]

Or they can do whatever they want without worrying about the later era's Legend story?

[CrutchCricket]

If there's any justice left, they will.

 

Just because Disney collectively nuked the whole thing doesn't mean we also need to pick apart the pieces. Let us be consistent in oblivion.

Edited July 29, 2016 by CrutchCricket

[FlavivsAetivs]

I'm not actually sure, Shadow of Revan and Knights of the Fallen Empire were both checked for consistency with Disneycanon, although SWTOR is not a part of the Disney continuity and is Legends.

 

That being said, I think Bioware currently has the option of doing whatever they please. We have 600 years until the next event in the Legends Continuity and 3600 years until the Disneyverse to work with.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited July 29, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Slowpokeking]

I'm not actually sure, Shadow of Revan and Knights of the Fallen Empire were both checked for consistency with Disneycanon, although SWTOR is not a part of the Disney continuity and is Legends.

 

That being said, I think Bioware currently has the option of doing whatever they please. We have 600 years until the next event in the Legends Continuity and 3600 years until the Disneyverse to work with.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

In the legend continuity, Ziost was alive rather than being drained into a dead planet.

[DarthDymond]

In the legend continuity, Ziost was alive rather than being drained into a dead planet.

 

It's alive 3000+ years later, that's plenty of time for some terraforming or other recovery efforts to do the trick.

 

(In the real universe, it's way too short a time frame for its ecosystem to bounce back naturally off of whatever miniscule specs of life might be left - but the Star Wars space fantasy universe doesn't usually worry too much about getting questions of scale right, so I wouldn't rule that out completely either.)

Edited July 29, 2016 by DarthDymond

[Slowpokeking]

It's alive 3000+ years later, that's plenty of time for some terraforming or other recovery efforts to do the trick.

 

We don't see that happens to Nathema.

 

And why should Bioware stick with the Legend continuity? It's pointless now.

[DarthDymond]

We don't see that happens to Nathema.

 

And why should Bioware stick with the Legend continuity? It's pointless now.

Ziost isn't devoid of the Force the way Nathema is, either. It may have been a Nathema-lite level mass extinction.

 

As for why they should continue sticking to the Legends continuity? Because it's a great fictional universe to be a part of!

Edited July 29, 2016 by DarthDymond

[Slowpokeking]

Ziost isn't devoid of the Force the way Nathema is, either. It may have been a Nathema-lite level mass extinction.

 

As for why they should continue sticking to the Legends continuity? Because it's a great fictional universe to be a part of!

 

No, it's greatly inconsistent(especially the post ROTJ ones) and I don't see a reason to stick with it.

[CrutchCricket]

No, it's fairly consistent and moreover entirely awesome and better than the shlock Mickey's putting out in every way.

 

And yes the EU still matters damn it! Just because Mickey nuked it doesn't mean we can't honor it. It's three decades of Star Wars history that is (or should be) more real to non-casual fans than anything they're pumping out now. This game is part of it, the last living part of it. They should keep it that way, not tear it apart.

[Sage_of_Battle]

No, it's fairly consistent and moreover entirely awesome and better than the shlock Mickey's putting out in every way.

 

And yes the EU still matters damn it! Just because Mickey nuked it doesn't mean we can't honor it. It's three decades of Star Wars history that is (or should be) more real to non-casual fans than anything they're pumping out now. This game is part of it, the last living part of it. They should keep it that way, not tear it apart.

 

 

Oh yeah, DBZ-lite was just oh so good. Opinions are fun.

 

As for the OP, I'll go with what Flavivs said, Bioware can essentially do whatever they want. Guess this gives them creative reign, whether that's a good thing or not is to be seen.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Sage_of_Battle

[Slowpokeking]

No, it's fairly consistent and moreover entirely awesome and better than the shlock Mickey's putting out in every way.

 

And yes the EU still matters damn it! Just because Mickey nuked it doesn't mean we can't honor it. It's three decades of Star Wars history that is (or should be) more real to non-casual fans than anything they're pumping out now. This game is part of it, the last living part of it. They should keep it that way, not tear it apart.

 

No it wasn't, we got endless major conflict coming from nowhere everyday post RotJ story, Luke could build up the Jedi Order in less than a decade. Tons of Order 66/Jedi Purge survivors in the OT era. Tons of "better than Vader and Palpatine" imperial characters, the old EU got so many flaws. It is consistent compare to other franchise, yes, but not enough.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[CrutchCricket]

No it wasn't, we got endless major conflict coming from nowhere everyday post RotJ story,

Hardly from nowhere. And I don't think I need to point out that games, books, comics etc of Luke and co. knitting tending house wouldn't have made for very exciting licensed material.

 

Luke could build up the Jedi Order in less than a decade.

You're right, rage quitting after one failure is much better.

 

Tons of Order 66/Jedi Purge survivors in the OT era.

Yes, because hundreds if not thousands of Jedi spread out over an entire galaxy can plausibly be taken out all at once with 100% success rate.

 

Tons of "better than Vader and Palpatine" imperial characters, the old EU got so many flaws. It is consistent compare to other franchise, yes, but not enough.

No one is "better" than Vader, and certainly not Palpatine. The latter has been stated repeatedly by Lucas himself to be the most powerful Sith that ever lived. Villains that present different sorts of threats, sure. But no one presented a greater threat than Palpatine, with the possible exception of the Yuuzhan Vong. And yes I'll admit that's a polarizing section of the EU. But one or two "bad apples" does not warrant the scorched earth **** Mickey pulled.

[Slowpokeking]

Hardly from nowhere. And I don't think I need to point out that games, books, comics etc of Luke and co. knitting tending house wouldn't have made for very exciting licensed material.

It is from nowhere, all the setting was added after.

 

You're right, rage quitting after one failure is much better.

No, he had 0 experience to build an order from nearly nothing. It makes much more sense that it failed rather than successfully rebuild it after just a few years.

 

Yes, because hundreds if not thousands of Jedi spread out over an entire galaxy can plausibly be taken out all at once with 100% success rate.

"When gone I am, the last of the Jedi will you be."

 

This scene of EP 6 was to show how unique Luke was, how tragic Obi Wan and Yoda were. Jedi survivors poping out just ruin this.

 

Also the Empire didn't just use Order 66, they continued the hunt for many years.

 

 

No one is "better" than Vader, and certainly not Palpatine. The latter has been stated repeatedly by Lucas himself to be the most powerful Sith that ever lived. Villains that present different sorts of threats, sure. But no one presented a greater threat than Palpatine, with the possible exception of the Yuuzhan Vong. And yes I'll admit that's a polarizing section of the EU. But one or two "bad apples" does not warrant the scorched earth **** Mickey pulled.

 

I'm taking about intelligence, coup schemes all over the empire, "better than you" imperials are boring after you've seen over and over again.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Sage_of_Battle]

-Post ROTJ EU

-Good

 

Pick one.

[Darth_Advent]

A lot of the themes in KotFE, particularly this straight promotion of a greyer third path that was without exception refuted in the former EU, suggest to me that the writers feel at liberty to ignore the Legends continuity taking place after the events of the game. As long as they don't suggest anything too audacious, like giving Sorcerers and Sages frost bolts to hurl or bringing in Obi-Wan's long-forgotten bisexual black ancestor, I don't expect the Lucasfilm Story Group to bother to overrule them.

 

I can't fault their attitude if it's true. I know if I were to create something that made such a heroic effort reference and be consistent with past chronological canon like TOR only to be informed one morning that it "didn't count" anymore, I'd want some bittersweet catharsis.

[FlavivsAetivs]

I'm going to point out several things:

 

1. Holocron and Leeland Chee both kept the EU consistent. It was also canon as Lucasfilm stated it was several times, although it was not canon to Lucas himself (his opinion on it varied wildly over the years).

 

2. Post RotJ was a mess, yes. It was mainly because they were forced to write in a 30ish year timespan because they couldn't kill off any of the main characters (Leia/Luke/Han). Timothy Zahn wrote his later novels basically as an "I'm sorry" to the mess of crappy books and comics the post-ROTJ EU had become. And the Yuzhaan Vong sucked, I agree.

 

3. The Disney Canon isn't much better. Most of the books are at best mediocre, just like the EU, and it already has inconsistencies.

 

4. About Ziost, they have about 1400 years to make it inhabited again when it becomes an important world in the New Sith Wars.

 

5. One of the problems with the EU was that after Revan, just like it does with every other good idea, they horribly overused the whole "gray jedi" concept. It was supposed to be that Revan was the exception, not the rule, and that it was almost impossible to stay in the middle between both sides of the force, because the dark side would suck you down.

 

~ Eudoxia

[LordDelectus]

No, it's fairly consistent and moreover entirely awesome and better than the shlock Mickey's putting out in every way.

 

And yes the EU still matters damn it! Just because Mickey nuked it doesn't mean we can't honor it. It's three decades of Star Wars history that is (or should be) more real to non-casual fans than anything they're pumping out now. This game is part of it, the last living part of it. They should keep it that way, not tear it apart.

 

Hell, yes! The day this game starts abandoning its EU roots (I am not sure how it can though...) is the day I stop buying cartel stuff and generally begin to divorce myself from the game.

 

Disneycanon is garbage, there is nothing to it! Two years after their announcement, Disney has done squat to expand their universe. Only a few books, comics...that is about it.

 

The EU is and remains canon to me. Disney can go to Hell.

[Slowpokeking]

I'm going to point out several things:

 

 

2. Post RotJ was a mess, yes. It was mainly because they were forced to write in a 30ish year timespan because they couldn't kill off any of the main characters (Leia/Luke/Han). Timothy Zahn wrote his later novels basically as an "I'm sorry" to the mess of crappy books and comics the post-ROTJ EU had become. And the Yuzhaan Vong sucked, I agree.

 

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Actually, Zahn's later books also have flaws many of the EU books have, too much favor on his own characters, even whitewashing Thrawn and Mara, it was actually damaging their characters.

 

Post RotJ story was mainly about "super major threat of the week" span, every big bad guys of the galaxy suddenly came up one by one in just 30-40 years, the big three were still saving the galaxy in their 70s. It got some good stories but overall it's a mess. Way too many superweapons.

 

I also REALLY HATE any other Jedi survivors keep poping out after the battle of Yavin.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

I don't think the Disney canon was much better, but at least we got the new movies as its backbone.

 

 

5. One of the problems with the EU was that after Revan, just like it does with every other good idea, they horribly overused the whole "gray jedi" concept. It was supposed to be that Revan was the exception, not the rule, and that it was almost impossible to stay in the middle between both sides of the force, because the dark side would suck you down.

 

~ Eudoxia

I like the idea of the Dread Masters and Darth Jadus. They are quite unique.

 

The main problem of the SWTOR story, aside from the game's mech, was

Overuse of the Rakata Empire technology, can't they leave this garbage empire in their rest? It's just very stupid to set such old dead civilization's weapon as "Super powerful plot device", can you image we dig out Roman Empire's weapons and use it to kick modern army's ***?

Vitiate's characterizaion was bland and boring, at least as Vitiate.

Trying to fit 8 different characters into one story line in KOTFE, some of them just feel really off.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[JourrnoRush]

I don't think the Disney canon was much better, but at least we got the new movies as its backbone.

 

 

I like the idea of the Dread Masters and Darth Jadus. They are quite unique.

 

The main problem of the SWTOR story, aside from the game's mech, was

Overuse of the Rakata Empire technology, can't they leave this garbage empire in their rest? It's just very stupid to set such old dead civilization's weapon as "Super powerful plot device", can you image we dig out Roman Empire's weapons and use it to kick modern army's ***?

Vitiate's characterizaion was bland and boring, at least as Vitiate.

Trying to fit 8 different characters into one story line in KOTFE, some of them just feel really off.

 

The Roman Empire weapon analogy isn't a good one lol

Real world examples never work well, its a fantasy video game. This would be like we dug out an ancient alien technology and figured out a way to use it, which is exactly what SWTOR had done.

 

I will agree on KotFE. My main is a sage and the story is awesome as a Force user. I'm taking a BH through it and some of it makes no sense. I'm head canoning as there isn't a Valkorion in my head, I'm just the commander fighting against the Eternal Empire.

[Sage_of_Battle]

Hell, yes! The day this game starts abandoning its EU roots (I am not sure how it can though...) is the day I stop buying cartel stuff and generally begin to divorce myself from the game.

 

Disneycanon is garbage, there is nothing to it! Two years after their announcement, Disney has done squat to expand their universe. Only a few books, comics...that is about it.

 

The EU is and remains canon to me. Disney can go to Hell.

 

If there's nothing to it, how can you call it garbage? Also, who woulda thought, (decent) books take longer than two years to make!

 

The EU was an overbloated mess.

[Slowpokeking]

The Roman Empire weapon analogy isn't a good one lol

Real world examples never work well, its a fantasy video game. This would be like we dug out an ancient alien technology and figured out a way to use it, which is exactly what SWTOR had done..

But why must ancient alien be better than current technology? In SWTOR both sides got quite crazy technology and they spent a lot of efforts on it, they didn't stay in a dark age. What makes the Rakata better?

Edited August 2, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Limariko]

But why must ancient alien be better than current technology? In SWTOR both sides got quite crazy technology and they spent a lot of efforts on it, they didn't stay in a dark age. What makes the Rakata better?

 

At least the Rakata showed signs of something other than the stagnant state we see going from TOR era to the films era. I know the actual reason for this is portions of the fandom would **** the proverbial brick at anything deviating from the movie era aesthetic, but the fact that there's been barely any changes/advancements in what we see of the technology in Star Wars is an eyeroller with me because I find it near impossible to believe that in the centuries spanning TOR to the movies era there were no major advancements made. In that same amount of time in real world history, humanity moved from a early medieval state to high tech modernity.

 

It's enough to make me wonder if maybe there's something to the theories I've read about the possibility of Force users being the cause for this degree of stagnancy.

 

I hope SWTOR doesn't stay hidebound to the EU, let the creativity flow with the occasional use of what little was decent about the EU.

[Slowpokeking]

At least the Rakata showed signs of something other than the stagnant state we see going from TOR era to the films era. I know the actual reason for this is portions of the fandom would **** the proverbial brick at anything deviating from the movie era aesthetic, but the fact that there's been barely any changes/advancements in what we see of the technology in Star Wars is an eyeroller with me because I find it near impossible to believe that in the centuries spanning TOR to the movies era there were no major advancements made. In that same amount of time in real world history, humanity moved from a early medieval state to high tech modernity.

 

It's enough to make me wonder if maybe there's something to the theories I've read about the possibility of Force users being the cause for this degree of stagnancy.

 

I hope SWTOR doesn't stay hidebound to the EU, let the creativity flow with the occasional use of what little was decent about the EU.

 

Yeah the stagnant stat of SW technology, but that actually started from KOTOR and especially the introduction of Rakata Empire.

 

Before that, in TotJ, the technology we saw, was quite ****** from ancient time but not really impressive compare to the movie era overall. Especially the Great Hyperspace War era, beside a super weapon, We even saw obvious

advancement in the Exar Kun era.

 

It was ok to give the Rakata some credit, but it was used WAY too many times as plot device in SWTOR.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Limariko]

Yeah the stagnant stat of SW technology, but that actually started from KOTOR and especially the introduction of Rakata Empire.

 

Before that, in TotJ, the technology we saw, was quite ****** from ancient time but not really impressive compare to the movie era overall. Especially the Great Hyperspace War era, beside a super weapon, We even saw obvious

advancement in the Exar Kun era.

 

It was ok to give the Rakata some credit, but it was used WAY too many times as plot device in SWTOR.

 

Despite being a History major/Archaeology minor and so probably tends to nitpick things like this automatically, while it might not come across like it, I do cut Star Wars some slack. To me it's not so much Science Fiction but more Science Fantasy. Equally I admit to not avidly reading every bit of EU minutia and taking it all as gospel because I have a low tolerance for works that come across more as 'the only difference between this and what I can find on a fanfiction site is the author got paid and someone spellchecked'. Star Trek's another one really bad for this so it's not a Star Wars exclusive. Not to mention the Dark Nest stuff really killed a lot of the EU stuff for me because it was just that awful.

 

I will agree that the Rakata are used too much as a plot device, but I think it more they're not really used to the potential they could be. With Force driven technology, I'm going to expect some pretty far out there stuff rather than pretty much the same as most everything, just with a different aesthetic.