Remove Level Sync PLEASE! or at least add an solo everything option

[PatT]

We need to keep on pestering Bioware to remove level sync, I hate it so much and here are my reasons:

 

I'm guessing the reason they added it is because of the new quest that requires people to kill world bosses, encourages more grouping and reduce high level players abusing low levels areas like soloing world bosses and pvp. But its just not worth

 

1. XP inflation, a F2P player can easily gain xp and get their levels high enough to sync down 4-6 levels, what is the point of this? it makes cartel xp items completely worthless, every mission feels more like a grind than it already is because your player can't get anymore powerful. And exploration missions are basically completely useless.

 

2. Makes game harder than it needs too. Swtor is an MMORPG not a skill based game like starcraft, dota, csgo etc... I really don't want to put in the extra effort to go through strategy, proper gear and player recruitment just to do a level 50 operation. If its a brand new operation that gives brand new gear I'm fine with going through all that work, but if i want to kill the dread masters for the fancy jet pack and outdated gear i really shouldn't go through all that work. Not to mention i cant solo the heroic missions for my legacy achievements anymore

 

3.Removes the sense of Reward, Progression and Power. Level 65 with maxed gear, purple augments, expensive clothing and mounts, is only slightly stronger to if not equal to the average boss on Korriban who is level 10 at best. level 10 boss = level 65 fully maxed character does not seem right to me. This the biggest issue for me i should not have to feel that I am equal to someone who just started the game when visiting another planet.

 

Bioware if you refuse to remove level sync at the very least give us an option to be able to solo everything including operations without help from other players. not a lot of people are willing to to do a level 50 operation or kill low end world bosses just for an achievement.

 

I find it rare to be able to say this, but I can't find anything here that is true. The game is too easy. XP inflation started but not because of level sync. After 12xp, they re-structured everything so that class and planetary arcs were left at an equivalence of 6xp. So double xp makes it back to 12xp.

 

This game is so easy that a person coudl a) go pantsless, b) spam only their most basic attacks and c) use no companion and easily clear almost all content. Why on earth do you need to go to a planet that (used to) level out at 10, and be 60+ without you being leveled down?

 

I can only think it's because you like being the playground bully type, 3 x's stronger, bigger than anyone and watching them die/be hurt by your uberness.

 

This is a MULTIPLAYER game (or was supposed to be) but nearly all content is now soloable. It IS SUPPOSED to be a GROUP thing. If you want a single player experience, get a single player game. Okay?

 

If this content is difficult to you, I think maybe video games might not be your forte.

 

Sorry. You just shocked me with this complaint. If you hate the way this is, then I suggest maybe you're in the wrong place. Because personaly, I'd like to see the original difficulty back. HM Lost Island, pre first nerf, in Columi Gear so you could hopefully get that Rakata drop... Now that* was a test. I SOLO'd Lost Island just before 4.0. (Yes, that* was hard). Or at least on one boss it was.) This game's challenges are now mostly in HM + raiding, and unfortunately, there isn't enough new content in that area, and most of those people have moved on. Working on a team to down something that requires attention, knowledge, strategy and teamwork, that's enjoyable. That's what an MMO should offer. It sounds like you want to require a PhD to play with little wooden blocks. So you can wipe the field. No sympathy. Whines like this are what make me burn.

[josephxp]

This game's challenges are now mostly in HM + raiding, and unfortunately, there isn't enough new content in that area, and most of those people have moved on. Working on a team to down something that requires attention, knowledge, strategy and teamwork, that's enjoyable. That's what an MMO should offer. It sounds like you want to require a PhD to play with little wooden blocks. So you can wipe the field. No sympathy. Whines like this are what make me burn.

 

Good news is we are getting more group content as Eric stated on the live stream sum up:

 

 

[....................................................Other Text that is irrelevant to this topic...............................................]

 

• Group Content - We have stated before that right now, there is no new group content coming in the short term roadmap. However, we do want to let you know that the team is working on group content as we speak. It is our plan to reveal more details later this year. Just to set some expectations, this isn't confirming any specific type of content (Ops, Wzs, FPs), but group content is in the works.
  

 

[........................................................Other Text that is irrelevant to this topic...............................................]

Thanks everyone for tuning in. Feel free to ask any questions you may have in this thread.

 

-eric

Edited July 1, 2016 by josephxp

[PatT]

Good news is we are getting more group content as Eric stated on the live stream sum up:

 

I saw that and cheered!

[josephxp]

I saw that and cheered!

 

Same, I'm for both solo content and group content, as i said level sync has done a lot of good stuff for both solo and group.

 

I have a feeling that there will be an actual operation or two that will drop with season 2 of KotFE or what it will be called i forget the name for season 2. That will be placed in the beginning, middle, or end of the season, or anywhere in between. Would be a nice change to the psudo world boss/ops boss hybrid like the colossal monolith on Ziost.

[NSStember]

We do *not* need a "solo" mode. As others here have pointed out, this game is already on "super easy mode" as it is for all the starting planets. Boss fights that used to take teams or real effort now are a breeze.

[Clone_Enforcer]

Level sync is a good thing for many reasons.

 

1- You can't just 1 hit kill mobs anymore, before many mobs it would just take 1 or 2 hits and dead, no fun in that.

 

2- With level sync it made missions give rewards equal to your current level. Before level sync if you went what was it 6 levels over the mission level you got 6-8 exp. With level sync it scales to your level so you don't actually waste time doing a mission where whoops i over leveled by 1 now i get nothing from it. (Though staged bonuses don't have this effect which should have been implemented a while ago)

 

3- World bosses, you used to be able to solo them, ya it was great to kill them for the achievements but after that it was meh. Now it encourages people to group for the bosses.

 

4- Older operations. I remember post 3.0 but pre 4.0 solo'ing Explosive conflict, just for laughs, playing it from when it was a challenge its a big gap. The only thing useful doing it solo was for the decor drops i was looking for.

 

5- Gear drops. Before level sync older operations would drop old irrelevant gear so if you wanted the 192 and 198 gear (at 3.0 time) for the set bonuses you could only do the Ravagers and Temple of Sacrifice for those gear. Now gear drops equal to the current ratio the 216/220/224.

 

6- Outpost guards. Every crass faction planet has those guards and the commanders, with level sync you no longer had to be max level to participate in the hits which helps guilds because more players can join which means more farming of the schematics for their guild ship expansions.

 

7- Before the PVP to PVE focus toggle if you were on a PVP server and you were on a planet like lets say Alderann at say level 32 you would get pummeled by level 60's in full pvp gear relentlessly for the fun of it. That is degenerative because you could not damage someone with that huge of a level gap. Now with it implemented PVP server players had a chance, though with the toggles servers no longer have that distinction.

 

8- Heroics, this does go with missions, but the mobs that would be challenging could be taken down in a few hits. Now with level sync some mobs had their HP dropped and strengths but with level sync it actually takes time.

 

Overall level sync had done so much good for this game. Makes group content actually worth doing. Though i do feel all story content should be solo-able, Story content is easy to go through. So if your a level 65 having a hard time getting through a planet with full 208+ gear there are a few things wrong with you which are-

 

One or more of the following:

 

• You are not using your rotations but only basic attacks.
   
  
• You are fighting a world boss which you can't do solo.
   
  
• You gear is fully damaged and you ignore that damage from repairs.
   
  
• You don't have your companion set to a comparable mode to your own spec. DPS = Healer companion, Tank = DPS companion, Healer = DPS companion.
   
  
• You suck at this game
  

 

This guy gets it.

[josephxp]

This guy gets it.

 

Ya, its just basic experience. At first when level sync was announced i was pretty steamed but i figured ok lets see what it will be affecting, how low will our levels go etc. And it became very balanced. Especially on pvp servers.... either you played as a stealth class to avoid being mauled by level 60's or try to level everything by dozens of KDY runs to lv 60 so you stood a chance.

 

Overall level sync puts everything but group content on easy mode, and makes older content relevant.

[IanArgent]

There are so many things wrong with that viewpoint, I really am not going to go down the road of forum pvp with you over it

 

I'll just leave these here so you can re-enlighten yourself over the numerous reasons behind making level sync optional;

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=844391&highlight=Level+sync

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=838506&highlight=Level+sync

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=848137&highlight=Level+sync

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=838446&highlight=Level+sync

 

If after reading those, you still come to the conclusion of , then we'll agree to disagree.

 

I've been riding my white horse against optional level sync since day 1. We'll agree to disagree.

[GJuliusCaesar]

Level sync makes it so you can do all of the content and still get rewards--quests don't gray out anymore. This makes it much easier than it was before because you are rarely actually under the level cap for a planet anymore if you do everything along the way. A monkey on the low end of the bell curve could solo this game--in the places its supposed to be. I'm not big on grouping up--I've been playing since launch and haven't done an operation--but asking for solo operations seems silly, considering that's the only place the game actually forces you to group, excepting a few of the flashpoints that don't have solo mode.

[Mowermanx]

Just did Tython & Coruscant heroics on my level 65 Sage. Yeah, I have 4 piece bonus and most of my gear is rating 212+. Except I did these with only mainhand equipped. And as always: no companion. I didn't even really try to do rotation correctly. Tython was mostly just Forcequake -> TK Wave -> pull next group.

 

I will add link to video here once it's done uploading.

 

Although I didn't record it, I done the entire Korriban and Tython with new chars at-level, a couple of months ago, and I done it naked, no main hand or offhand, no companion, absolutely nothing and it was a cakewalk.

Granted, I was using Sage and Sorc, but there's nothing on those 2 planets that goes close to being difficult.

[JediAkemi]

I don't have a problem with Level-Sync.

 

Like someone else further up the thread, what I have a problem with is being thrown into Depths of Manaan as a level 15.

 

The Flashpoints had their original levels for a reason. They (in theory) became more complex as we gained more abilities.

 

I have suggested before, and I will suggest again, that level 15 should only unlock Hammer Station and Kuat in group finder (because Kuat was already designed for bolstered all-levels).

Level 19 would then add Athiss.

Level 23 would add Mandalorian Raiders.

Level 27 would add Cademimu.

etc etc

until level 56 adds Blood Hunt, and Battle of Rishi, so from 56-65, everything (except Esseles/Black Talon) is available through group finder.

This would mean that you're no longer being thrown into flashpoints that you lack the tools to reasonably attempt.

It shouldn't be that hard to implement. Should it?

 

 

If necessary, a similar proposal for Hard Mode Flashpoints via group finder would see the original HM50s be available for levels 50-65, the old HM55s (Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, and both Czerkas) unlocking at level 55, and finally the Hard Mode versions of the Forged Alliances, and Shadow of Revan arc unlocking at 60.

[PatT]

Well, that would be like it was at the beginning! In the beginning, FP's worked just exactly as you stated. And yes, trying to do a dificult FP without having an interrupt, a cleanse, or much of anything else, really blows. Someone wasn't thinking on that.

[Muljo_Stpho]

I don't have a problem with Level-Sync.

 

Like someone else further up the thread, what I have a problem with is being thrown into Depths of Manaan as a level 15.

 

The Flashpoints had their original levels for a reason. They (in theory) became more complex as we gained more abilities.

 

I have suggested before, and I will suggest again, that level 15 should only unlock Hammer Station and Kuat in group finder (because Kuat was already designed for bolstered all-levels).

Level 19 would then add Athiss.

Level 23 would add Mandalorian Raiders.

Level 27 would add Cademimu.

etc etc

until level 56 adds Blood Hunt, and Battle of Rishi, so from 56-65, everything (except Esseles/Black Talon) is available through group finder.

This would mean that you're no longer being thrown into flashpoints that you lack the tools to reasonably attempt.

It shouldn't be that hard to implement. Should it?

 

 

If necessary, a similar proposal for Hard Mode Flashpoints via group finder would see the original HM50s be available for levels 50-65, the old HM55s (Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu, and both Czerkas) unlocking at level 55, and finally the Hard Mode versions of the Forged Alliances, and Shadow of Revan arc unlocking at 60.

 

All true, and I've also said a lot of the same things in a number of topics on that subject.

 

Both tactical mode and hard mode flashpoints should start at their originally designed levels and stay available to all levels after that. They also probably ought to sync down to the designed level instead of bolstering up to the level cap.

 

I'd also like to see more creative assistance for tactical mode than just having the kolto stations. I'd like to see them add terminals at the start (and at respawn checkpoints?) that activate special buffs sort of like the one for the Alliance buffs at the start of a heroic star fortress (but not limited to those same buffs, think of other things like a healing effect or a shield effect or a thorns effect or whatever else). Oh, and there were a couple flashpoints (Colicoid War Games and I think also Kaon Under Siege) that they forgot to touch in 4.0's tactical conversions.

 

I'd also go a step further to suggest that tacticals ought to be divided between a few different categories, like there would be a story queue where you'd have all (including Black Talon / Esseles for all levels because "why not?") flashpoints that feature more cutscenes and there would be an action queue for the flashpoints that are much lighter on cutscenes and maybe also a puzzle queue for mechanics-heavy scenarios like Colicoid War Games and modified versions of the shroud and dreadseed heroics (which they could transform into flashpoints).

 

However, to nitpick something: That subject is not "level sync". Level sync specifically refers to the system that caps mastery, endurance, power, health, and damage to not be allowed to go higher than certain amounts depending on the planet's level. Tacticals all (except Black Talon / Esseles, I think) use a bolster to level cap (scaling stats up to something comparable to a higher level character), and the planning flub that allowed low levels into high level flashpoints, where they might just prove to be more of a hindrance than an asset, is just something that sounds better as a concept ("let's open up the queues so that everybody can match for anything") than it looks in actual use.

 

Well, that would be like it was at the beginning! In the beginning, FP's worked just exactly as you stated. And yes, trying to do a dificult FP without having an interrupt, a cleanse, or much of anything else, really blows. Someone wasn't thinking on that.

 

Not exactly the same. The organization system they had going on before had MAXIMUM queue levels for each flashpoint. There was a minimum level when it would become available to start queuing for, and there was a maximum level after which that option would not be available to queue for any more. The 4.0 changes moved those limits all the way to the extremes in both directions, making most flashpoints have the same window of availability in levels 15-65 (using bolster to make up the difference), but the idea here is to say that it was a mistake to lower the minimum limits and they only should have raised the maximums to the cap (so we would see something like Athiss 19-65, Cademimu 27-65, etc.).

 

Of course, there could be other alternatives for them to consider as well. Suppose that they leave the level ranges as wide open as they currently are but the enemies are at the originally designed level (not 65) and they apply BOTH bolster and sync up/down to that designed level (plus about 1 or 2 or 3 depending on their design goals for the relative difficulty of running a tactical). That would be for tactical. Hard modes might bolster and sync for the original level or the original minus 1, or something like that. Also use the idea about adding buffs to aid the players in tactical mode and have this include activation of the temporary ability bar with a few key abilities for the role associated with the buff that you pick up from one of the terminals. (This could allow a low level <insert role> (or even a non-<insert role> if there is no proper person for that role in the group and someone wants to volunteer to fill in as best they can if things get rough) to have access to some abilities that cover most of the important points for that role.) (Again, these buffs and temporary abilities would only be available in tactical. Hard modes would rely on the capabilities that the characters actually have.)

[Nefla]

I really like level sync. I can play with whoever I want on whatever I planet I want, I can do all the quests that interest me because they will give me scaled up experience rather than abandoning them when I outlevel them. I can grind from lv 50-60 on Coruscant side quests if I don't want to do RotHC and SoR for the millionth time and want other people to talk to and play with (since the later planets are always ghost towns) and so on.

 

I remember newbies used to ask for help and I'd be like "well I can follow you and heal you but you don't want to group me because you wont get any exp" now I don't have to worry about that and can even help in instances.

[josephxp]

I really like level sync. I can play with whoever I want on whatever I planet I want, I can do all the quests that interest me because they will give me scaled up experience rather than abandoning them when I outlevel them. I can grind from lv 50-60 on Coruscant side quests if I don't want to do RotHC and SoR for the millionth time and want other people to talk to and play with (since the later planets are always ghost towns) and so on.

 

I remember newbies used to ask for help and I'd be like "well I can follow you and heal you but you don't want to group me because you wont get any exp" now I don't have to worry about that and can even help in instances.

 

Yup the pain of helping a newbie when being in a group gave them 0 exp when mods were killed before level sync. Another reason why it should stay

[peter_plankskull]

I really like level sync. I can play with whoever I want on whatever I planet I want, I can do all the quests that interest me because they will give me scaled up experience rather than abandoning them when I outlevel them. I can grind from lv 50-60 on Coruscant side quests if I don't want to do RotHC and SoR for the millionth time and want other people to talk to and play with (since the later planets are always ghost towns) and so on.

 

I remember newbies used to ask for help and I'd be like "well I can follow you and heal you but you don't want to group me because you wont get any exp" now I don't have to worry about that and can even help in instances.

Level sync overall was a great implementation and idea, the problem is it has flaws with chapter end bosses, operations and the flashpoint system. I actually absolutely refuse to progress any further on my characters or make new ones purely because the chapter end bosses are going to die in 2 hits. The dude above explained my problem with flashpoints better than I could of ever had.

 

I like the idea of such in level sync in operations, but part of me can't help but feel that small rung between gearing for them is simply gone. Before we use to do story mode flashpoints> hard mode flashpoints> operations. Now its more like - optional tactical gearing>optional operation gearing>hard mode flashpoints. Why should we practically have to run story mode operations to be able to complete hard mode flashpoints when they reward far less? Not to mention unlike tacticals, you have to fight over pieces with the RNG rolls and if its viable to your class and such which makes gearing even harder. It only leaves the achievement completionists and those who like the challenge of them, which apparently is a VERY small portion of the player base because I have to sit in queue for 30 mins as a DPS on Harb. I can't tank at all and I feel that I can carry the group better as a DPS commando as I can briefly help out my allies more than simply being a heals.

[LordEbonwood]

I completely agree. I didnt work hard grinding to have my level and abilities slashed. This is absolutely a horrible part of the game that no other MMO i play has done.

 

Bioware needs to eliminate this option or give you the ability to turn it off.

[josephxp]

I completely agree. I didnt work hard grinding to have my level and abilities slashed. This is absolutely a horrible part of the game that no other MMO i play has done.

 

Bioware needs to eliminate this option or give you the ability to turn it off.

 

Did you not read all of the good things level sync has done?

[ibervang]

They proberly did it, so they don't have to come up with new endgame content for a while. Even though that is what people seem to want

[Pateytos]

What bothers me about this sync - it is sometimes ridiculously high aggro range mobs have even on, so sometimes hunting datacrons for example is the pain in the bottom. Devs could make player less powerfull, but Bio could lower aggro range.

 

And there is still some places, when you synced with the planet max level but some quests are still irrelevant (+7 exp and couple of creds) for you.

[Piepyr]

Did you not read all of the good things level sync has done?

 

I also read, " . . . or give you the ability to turn it off" which I agree with.

 

Since KOTFE has turned my Sith Lord into an errand boy running around the galaxy doing inane things, I have no desire to fight through packs of mobs that I've already fought through just to get to my objective. It's neither challenging nor hard - it's just annoying and another artificial time sink. When I'm collecting scraps on Hoth I'm not there for xp or credits. I'm there for scraps. That's my objective.

 

I don't know why players continue to believe that mandatory level syncing is good for them. It's not. It's pretty great for the developers, though. What would actually be good for the players is the option to syn or not. Other games have done this without any problems.

 

Automatic level syncing should NEVER be a thing. In any game. That's because in some circumstances it's fantastic while in other circumstances it's utter garbage.

[Andryah]

Automatic level syncing should NEVER be a thing.

 

Says you. Opinion noted.

 

However, it IS a thing in a good number of MMOs. Precisely because it provides a level appropriate set of rewards and challenge when revisiting older and lower level content.

 

This MMO has done it better then most, IMO.

 

We can't solo low level world bosses anymore.. but that was never intended play to begin with.. so it's honestly nice to see that cleaned up as well with level sync.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Andryah

[Piepyr]

Says you. Opinion noted.

 

However, it IS a thing in a good number of MMOs. Precisely because it provides a level appropriate set of rewards and challenge when revisiting older and lower level content.

 

This MMO has done it better then most, IMO.

 

We can't solo low level world bosses anymore.. but that was never intended play to begin with.. so it's honestly nice to see that cleaned up as well with level sync.

 

If you had an option to level sync then there's nothing that would keep you from getting level appropriate rewards when visiting lower level areas. You could, you know, level sync. It doesn't need to be mandatory. Why would you want to make someone get level appropriate rewards if they don't care about that?

 

All I'm hearing is ohmehrgawd people were soloing world bosses!! Personally I don't care what others solo and what they don't but if this caused rioting in the streets then BW could do what TRION did - make the mobs in low level rifts untargetable if you weren't synced.

 

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.

 

I'm weary of getting knocked off my mount and having to wade through a bazillion trivial mobs to get to the thing I want to get to. I already did my time on that planet with those same mobs. Doing it again even on easy mode is wasting my time. Now I'm not saying you should have to miss out on all that fun if you choose. I'm all for giving people their options. I wish others felt the same.

[Yasawatse]

If you had an option to level sync then there's nothing that would keep you from getting level appropriate rewards when visiting lower level areas. You could, you know, level sync. It doesn't need to be mandatory. Why would you want to make someone get level appropriate rewards if they don't care about that?

 

All I'm hearing is ohmehrgawd people were soloing world bosses!! Personally I don't care what others solo and what they don't but if this caused rioting in the streets then BW could do what TRION did - make the mobs in low level rifts untargetable if you weren't synced.

 

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.

 

I'm weary of getting knocked off my mount and having to wade through a bazillion trivial mobs to get to the thing I want to get to. I already did my time on that planet with those same mobs. Doing it again even on easy mode is wasting my time. Now I'm not saying you should have to miss out on all that fun if you choose. I'm all for giving people their options. I wish others felt the same.

 

I feel literally the same way. i generally have no issue with level sync but i would like to turn it off from time to time so im not getting knocked off my bike and forced into killing Lv 22 mobs on my lv 65 Darth. its a waste of time. They knew to stay the hell away from me with the 30+ lv difference back in the day, i would like to be able to complete my map and get crystals for my artifice without killing some ***** with a blaster 999999999 times on a planet ive been to 999999 times. making it so players unsynced cant fight world bosses is simple so thats not an excuse about why the CHOICE isnt given to player. i dont mind level sync generally but i like the choice to turn it off so i can travel in peace.

[Andryah]

I'm weary of getting knocked off my mount and having to wade through a bazillion trivial mobs to get to the thing I want to get to.

 

1) you are always 5-6 levels above the mobs, with level sync... so they have no real ability to stop you or damage you unless you agro a hundred of them (which would be exceedingly careless and hard to do actually).

 

2) Ride a mount that gives you excellent protection. There are many of them.

 

I rarely ever get knocked off my mount on a sub capped level world. I just zoom through them and keep going. Again.. because they are at the low end of green to you, almost gray, and if you ride a mount with decent protection for knock-offs.. it really is a nonissue.

 

Unless they have a special attack like a knockback or a stun ... all you should be getting is a little damage, which quickly regenerates. Even with a snare.. all they do is slow you down a bit.

 

I already did my time on that planet with those same mobs. Doing it again even on easy mode is wasting my time.

 

Then why are you there? If it's to run heroics.. you can teleport directly to them.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Andryah