Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Okay...i don't know what brought this unnecessary change on...but i have a feeling it has something to do with idiots accidentally flagging themselves for PvP and not knowing how to get out of it. Is this what our community has become? Whiney kids looking for a safe place to ERP and spam their quests? Fine, whatever, let them have it. But for an already dwindling PvP community this is a HORRIBLE change that's going to completely kill off WPvP for good. Here's why! Pro's PvE people have a safe place they can run to to RP, PvE, whatever they do with their time. That is literally the ONLY benefit for this. Con's Separating an already dwindling population, dumb move Effectively killing WPvP for people on non-PvP realms (i understand the irony there, so before people come in screaming MOVE TO A PVP REALM, i'll have you know the dwindling server population makes it equally unbearable on existing PvP realms. Most players have moved to RP/PvE realms.) You're punishing WPvPers for someone elses mistake/incompetence. Good one Bioware. Here's what you SHOULD HAVE DONE Bioware Educate players more on how flagging/deflagging works Teach them how to get out of unwanted PvP situations If people truly believe that running into AOE while flagged will force-flag someone, make it so AOE will not trigger a flag if an enemy player runs in. (In my experience, AOE has never force-flagged someone, i'm just relaying what the PvE community is telling me. It's always been some guy accidentally pressing tab/attack after AOE has finished. ) Make a more in-depth tutorial on how the PvP system works. Some people clearly don't understand it. /endrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Literally the only reason I've heard to be against this, People are upset, that this update has allowed people who held no previous interest in PvP, to avoid being pulled into the PvP that they never wanted to be involved with in the first place. Seriously, that's the only tangible reason. Separated? Sure, and that shouldn't be a problem, since we're all on separate planets, and yet SWTOR seems to still be quite very alive. If we can survive with that much division, then we sure as hell shouldn't have any trouble with PvPers finding and partaking in a field that is dedicated exclusively to their needs, and probably even improved to better facilitate the larger fights they've been looking for. Problem is however, that for the one reason I listed above, people are finding that with PvP comes the very same attitude that the OP's presented, in which PvPers actively insult anyone not up to 'their level'. Worse, there's no acknowledgement of the hostility and vitriol that makes the PvP community so unbearable to be around. So if you really want to change this and turn it around for the better, I think you should consider just dropping the 'tude and giving people a reason to join you. Otherwise, it'll really keep dwindling exactly as you say. You're punishing WPvPers for someone elses mistake/incompetence. Good one Bioware. They're punishing all of the PvPer community for the actions of a small portion that effectively abused every mechanic they could to facilitate their drive for griefing, the portion of the community that leans of terms like 'Carebears' to justify what they do, and now they've effectively earned their muzzle because of it. If you don't like it, you've got some PvPers to talk to (perhaps even yourself). Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 You act like this is rocket science...that's the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) You act like this is rocket science...that's the problem... No, I think it's quite very simple. Anyone upset about this change, is upset because they're seeing consequences to their activities. They've spent so much time trying to use exploits to grief, that they ended up being bumped to an instance where they simply can't do it anymore. It's hilarious to watch, because this might actually help PvP, now that people can engage in it when they want, rather than at seemingly random times when griefers choose to force it on others. Quite literally the worst part of our PvP community, has been given their first patch! Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astansus Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I like the pvp aspect and that is what I mostly do, but it's hard to take you seriously when you complain about it sucking for you now that you can't cause people to accidently flag themselves. Hopefully they will merge or give out free transfers. Then pvpers can just unite under a server and stay in the pvp instances. I do see your point that it might seem barren now for you but if you were serious about world pvp you'd be on a pvp server anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 No, I think it's quite very simple. Anyone upset about this change, is upset because they're seeing consequences to their activities. They've spent so much time trying to use exploits to grief, that they ended up being bumped to an instance where they simply can't do it anymore. It's hilarious to watch, because this might actually help PvP, now that people can engage in it when they want, rather than at seemingly random times when griefers choose to force it on others. Quite literally the worst part of our PvP community, has been given their first patch! How in the hell is someone accidentally pressing a button after they finish attacking an NPC an exploit? That's just someone making a mistake/being dumb. So we're to be punished for this? That is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) How in the hell is someone accidentally pressing a button after they finish attacking an NPC an exploit? That's just someone making a mistake/being dumb. So we're to be punished for this? That is ridiculous. Sounds like you have other PvPers to talk to then, because lots of them basically said it out loud, they have actively taken steps to put themselves into a position where they can force others to flag. Namely, one stated quite plainly not ten minutes ago in general, that they would remain hidden with an invisibility power, and remain close to an enemy that a PvE'er would need to engage in order to complete a vital questline. One AoE later, and they're suddenly in a PvP match that they're neither leveled high enough, or wanting to participate in. You won't acknowledge that though. You can't acknowledge it because it's damning. It reveals that portion of your community I referenced earlier, the people that justified this being put into place, because people found ways to force others into being flagged. ...which is why you're dealing with it. You might want to blame others, but in reality, it's griefers that brought this on you, and denying it is an irrational defense that puts you squarely in the same group. Whether you griefed, or simply didn't join the voice to fight griefing, you ultimately facilitated this change by not actively opposing it. It's not science, it's simply people whining that they can't grief anymore. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Yet again, we come back to the "victim" of this oh-so-savage atrocity not understanding how PvP works or how to get out of it. 1.) You got ganked, so sorry, don't repeat what you did before and you'll be fine. 2.) You now know enemies are nearby, you dont want to fight, so wait for deflag/dont use AOE 3.) it's not that stealthed characters fault that this guy screwed up, yet again, Bioware should make AOE NOT flag enemies since apparently our non-pvper brothers and sisters can't figure out how to avoid this situation. Yet again, still being punished because someone else screwed up. You don't punish a community because people can't figure out how PvP mechanics work. BIOWARE created those mechanics, and if THATS an exploit, THEY created it. If this solid FACT upsets you sir, i'm sorry. But it is not our fault as a PvP community that some people can't grasp these simple concepts, and we SHOULD NOT be punished for it. PvP problems, PvP solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I say just make all servers PvP for RP and story reasons. It's kinda unrealistic if the imps and reps are at war and the players can't kill each other. Servers should be PvP by default in hostile faction based mmos. PvE and RP-PvE servers are an abomination.GMO. PvP servers are organic. Edited April 7, 2016 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Yet again, we come back to the "victim" of this oh-so-savage atrocity not understanding how PvP works or how to get out of it. 1.) You got ganked, so sorry, don't repeat what you did before and you'll be fine. 2.) You now know enemies are nearby, you dont want to fight, so wait for deflag/dont use AOE 3.) it's not that stealthed characters fault that this guy screwed up, yet again, Bioware should make AOE NOT flag enemies since apparently our non-pvper brothers and sisters can't figure out how to avoid this situation. Yet again, still being punished because someone else screwed up. You don't punish a community because people can't figure out how PvP mechanics work. BIOWARE created those mechanics, and if THATS an exploit, THEY created it. If this solid FACT upsets you sir, i'm sorry. But it is not our fault as a PvP community that some people can't grasp these simple concepts, and we SHOULD NOT be punished for it. PvP problems, PvP solutions. The point is that people actively sought a means to bypass the previous measures put into place to prevent the forceful flagging of people into PvP, in which they did not want to participate in the first place. They may have fixed the AoE issue, but what is to say that within the week those same griefers won't find another means, as they have consistently done so far? Say it all you want, there is still a portion of your community that is actively fighting to force people into PvP, and you have yet to argue against them or fight them. So yes, my previous comment still stands - you broke it by not acting, and now you're dealing with the consequences. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 They can't right now, because its perpetually stuck in the PvE side of things in some areas. They released broken content, not surpising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) They can't right now, because its perpetually stuck in the PvE side of things in some areas. They released broken content, not surpising. ...and that will be fixed in short time. That is indeed a note-worthy issue, and one that can be fixed quickly. If that is your only reason however, then I expect no more of this 'it's killing SWTOR!' nonsense the moment a patch is released and unhindered access between the instances is permitted. This has effectively fixed the portion of the PvP community that has successfully and repeatedly been finding ways to force others into being flagged for PvP, a problem that has effectively harmed the PvP community for some time now. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 The point is that people actively sought a means to bypass the previous measures put into place to prevent the forceful flagging of people into PvP, in which they did not want to participate in the first place. They may have fixed the AoE issue, but what is to say that within the week those same griefers won't find another means, as they have consistently done so far? Say it all you want, there is still a portion of your community that is actively fighting to force people into PvP, and you have yet to argue against them or fight them. So yes, my previous comment still stands - you broke it by not acting, and now you're dealing with the consequences. I broke it?! ME?! Sir if I was a bloody programmer for these people i'd have done the simple thing and remove all flagging consequences from AOE. Have you not read a single thing i've said other than the parts that upset you? I gave GOOD solutions to your problems. I'm starting to think you're just trolling at this point, and i'm ashamed i didn't catch it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikSunrider Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Has it really? Has World PVP really died? What is world PVP? World PVP is either large groups of people duking it out near a base, or individual players running around flagged and having the occassional duel. People interested in either of those, will chose the PVP instance (just as they chose to flag themselves previously), people not interested in PVE won't chose PVP instances, so what's the harm? They haven't flagged themselves in the past, they won't "flag" themselves in the future. No difference whatsover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I broke it?! ME?! Sir if I was a bloody programmer for these people i'd have done the simple thing and remove all flagging consequences from AOE. Have you not read a single thing i've said other than the parts that upset you? I gave GOOD solutions to your problems. I'm starting to think you're just trolling at this point, and i'm ashamed i didn't catch it sooner. Again, the point is that people were actively trying to find methods to make people flag for PvP. Your proposed solution is short-sighted, in that it doesn't address the potential for any future issues that might arise and create exactly the same problem as what we were facing before to warrant the reaction we're seeing today. Worse, it only clings too closely to the reputation bioware has of not appropriately assigning resources. Where their solution works with resounding effectiveness and for quite possibly all of the future, yours would dedicate their resources to an ongoing arms war in finding and neutralizing the methods that have again consistently been found after the previous were patched. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Has it really? Has World PVP really died? What is world PVP? World PVP is either large groups of people duking it out near a base, or individual players running around flagged and having the occassional duel. People interested in either of those, will chose the PVP instance (just as they chose to flag themselves previously), people not interested in PVE won't chose PVP instances, so what's the harm? They haven't flagged themselves in the past, they won't "flag" themselves in the future. No difference whatsover. If the population wasn't so biased towards one side, whether that be PvE or PvP, This wouldn't be a problem with higher populations. Since the population isn't what it once was, you see PvP players struggling to find the content they enjoy. That is the biggest problem with this change. You CANT do this kind of crap just because people whine about dying a few times. You may as well scrap the Server roles at this point and rename them "Safe-Place Servers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 If the population wasn't so biased towards one side, whether that be PvE or PvP, This wouldn't be a problem with higher populations. Since the population isn't what it once was, you see PvP players struggling to find the content they enjoy. That is the biggest problem with this change. You CANT do this kind of crap just because people whine about dying a few times. You may as well scrap the Server roles at this point and rename them "Safe-Place Servers" Again, the biggest way to avoid this, assuming my changes were implemented, is to NOT ZAP THE YELLOW NAMED TARGET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Again, the biggest way to avoid this, assuming my changes were implemented, is to NOT ZAP THE YELLOW NAMED TARGET. ...and I've already revealed that people previously found methods to hide that big yellow-named target. It doesn't matter what you do, without the solution implemented now, people would have still found a way to force others into PvP regardless of whether they wanted it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I am not sure how to diplomatically say this but World PvP shouldn't be a voluntary process. Both innocent quest doers and real PvPers should be prepared all the time to be nuked. This new PvP vs PvE instance feature is useless and PvP instances will be completely empty all the time. Edited April 7, 2016 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I am not sure how to diplomatically say this but World PvP shouldn't be a voluntary process. Both innocent quest doers and real PvPers should be prepared all the time to be nuked. This new PvP vs PvE instance feature is useless and PvP instances will be completely empty all the time. Yeah, PoT5 is a real slam dunk with their server-busting populations right now. We should totally do what they've been doing since the launch of SWTOR, which is literally what you're suggesting. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 I am not sure how to diplomatically say this but World PvP shouldn't be a voluntary process. Both innocent quest doers and real PvPers should be prepared all the time to be nuked. This new PvP vs PvE instance feature is useless and PvP instances will be completely empty all the time. Exactly, this is beneficial only for PvE characters and those that apparently lack the know-how to avoid flagging. Any way you spin it, the PvP community is NOT to blame, but rather the PvE communities blatant incompetence. This is literally the ONLY MMO that i know of that has put such a measure into effect. It's going to have disastrous results as the population continues to dwindle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 They should just completely ban world PvP or make all servers PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Wellp, it seems there's no room for reasonable discussion then. You've just revealed the radical position you stand on, and precisely why the PvP community is too unbearable to really 'want in' on the supposed 'action' you're offering. I'm sure you'll keep going the way of all the miracles we've seen on POT5, since this thread is a rather alarming example of the same "It's not our fault!" attitudes that put them where they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eotienses Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Wellp, it seems there's no room for reasonable discussion then. You've just revealed the radical position you stand on, and precisely why the PvP community is too unbearable to really 'want in' on the supposed 'action' you're offering. I'm sure you'll keep going the way of all the miracles we've seen on POT5, since this thread is a rather alarming example of the same "It's not our fault!" attitudes that put them where they are today. Mate...just SHHH. Keep your dignity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourkoth Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) Mate...just SHHH. Keep your dignity I'm not the one whining about how things are. Sooooo.....yeah, have fun with that. Edited April 7, 2016 by Mourkoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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