Acaelus-Thorne Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 We already have so many threads in regards to this issue, so just to sum it up.... there's always a difference between morality as an individual, and morality as a society. Some times the thing we do, which may seem harmless as an individual, might actually be harmful as a collective, and vice versa. Making premades is one of those. Now, despite the heated debates and accusations, most people don't really demonize premades. Everyone's played a few games with their friends. Most likely its usually a bunch of friends in it together to finish daily PvP requirements quickly. I'm one of the more fiery critical ones about premades because I've been to games where the whole premade thing became such a serious problem that entire PvP fell apart and became abandoned, but I don't think SWTOR is in such a danger right now. But the point would be such things do happen in the long run. SWTOR's been on for 5 years, and its certainly not a young game anymore. Things do start to take a toll, and usually the first signs of problems show up in low-pop. servers and non-peak times. Its usually an indication that the PvP population has been waning so much, that the odds of solo players meeting premades go higher and higher, and when we factor in the general imbalance between Imp and Rep population numbers, things can get dangerous really fast once its over the "threshold". It is at that moment, something that seemed as harmless as premades, can actually start accelerate the process of negative feedback loop, where the Rep player, the solo player, the sucky and average player, or whomever that's at the short end of the stick, start to notice that for some reason they're meeting premade competition more and more in WZs. People naturally get discouraged, and this ultimately leads to more people quitting PvP as a whole.. and this vicious cycle. In the end the devs cannot account for every possible problem, and almost always it takes a community effort to keep things healthy and fun for everyone -- even the solos, even the sucky ones -- lest PvP has a tendency to go into this nasty death spiral where it continuously bleeds off people. Keeping casual queues casual to the core -- as in, enforced random team formation, is a means to delay Armageddon from happening, so to speak. Some may question if players and guilds have a responsibility to do something about it, and if it isn't a job the devs should be doing. Why should people even care? Me, I believe everyone who loves PvP has an obligation to keep things going clean and healthy as long as possible. Interesting idea. How would we even as a community enforce or try to fix that? You can't tell people not to queue with guild mates and friends. I mean the only reason I play this game is because I love the PvP with my friends that no other MMO has been able to provide me. I assume most of us that still play are the same way. Unless it was a direct Dev update that forced Regs all to be solo queue in every situation.....that to me seems like it would drive more people away because instead of running with their buds they now have to face them. Its so easy to get into a premade. If people want to PVP all they have to do is ask in fleet, or join a guild, there are tons of different ways. Just say "any groups forming for lowbies/midbies/65's, and I'll always get people whispering me. Then a bunch of random Pugs are now a "premade" and able to go up against the others. The only benefit of a guilded premade is voice chat. But Solo players can join a public TS, or Vent. We have them for shadowlands. So I don't understand the argument that solo queueing regs is the only way to save the population. The imbalances from what i've seen aren't so much PvP choice, but rather player choice if that makes sense. This happened from day 1 of swtor. MOST people were like "oooh I wanna be OBi wan or Luke and roll Jedi, cuz jedi are the bestest". I've played on 4 different servers endgame PvP, and in almost all cases its Imp dominated. I don't know exactly why that is, maybe because the classes are cooler, animations fit better. But overall most of the good PvP players roll Imp side. Since day 1. And I know on the SHadowlands, when we got tired of playing imp for month after month we rolled pub toons which made it look like republic was way better. I think the imbalance is due to player skill and the type of player, does that make sense? Generally i've seen, there are exceptions that PVE'rs roll Republic, and PVP roll Imp. It seems to always be this way. Its happened with every MMO that has offered a Dark side faction. The natural PvPers or troublemakers go dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordine Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Ftr Shadowlands is fine to pvp level on during prime time IF you play imp. Lowbies will pop slow as Pub and mids seems non existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 to be fair, if you roll pub on JC, I don't care how "great" you are, you're going to feel like every game is against imp premades with a very rare good premade of pubs. but if you pug it imp side, the distribution isn't so bad b/c the good premades aren't ALWAYS on the other side. I'm not talking about getting carried so much as...just general disorganization on one side as opposed to the other. harby's even worse though. i feel kinda bad when ezoh or w/e solo queues pub. but then he rages on everyone and I don't feel so bad for him anymore. It's not even about premades with pubs lol. they don't get south/mid first and half the team quits automatically I have no problem solo queing pubs I just wish the rest of the team would even put in half the effort of even the worst imp pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 It's not even about premades with pubs lol. they don't get south/mid first and half the team quits automatically I have no problem solo queing pubs I just wish the rest of the team would even put in half the effort of even the worst imp pug. oh. I understand that. but you also see a premade on every single imp team, if not two. so it's really easy to feel that way pub side...even if you would have no chance against all pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordine Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Anyone that only plays Pubs and queues solo is going to end up with a pretty negative approach to wzs. Ftr the quiting is both sides all tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Anyone that only plays Pubs and queues solo is going to end up with a pretty negative approach to wzs. Ftr the quiting is both sides all tiers. Which is exactly why those who profess to be knowledgeable in PvP, should be landing themselves in the Pub side as much as possible. The guys over here need help, instead of ANOTHER above average player going to the Imp side or making ANOTHER Imp character to exploit the situation even further. Like I've mentioned in both premade related threads and other balance related threads, a lot of the problems and frustrations shown in these forums can be significantly remedied if only some people could show the courage, compassion, and dedication to PvP in regards to keeping things fair and enjoyable for all people. I know I'm ready to log in with my Imp character if things were just way too much one-sided for Reps -- except in reality this rarely -- if ever -- happens in the first place. Reps need the help, so I stay with Reps. I know nobody can force others to be benevolent and charitable, but frankly who are we to be disappointed about the devs that they do not care about PvP, when WE, ourselves, do not take the necessary steps to help out balance? We don't care about balance (at least, don't care about it enough to try and balance basic numbers and populations), so why should the devs care? I'm not sure about other people, but to me, faction loyalty and this make-believe animosity is all nice and fun, but to me it doesn't take prioirity over the effort to makes things fair for everyone, as much as you can. Like said, in the rare, incredible stroke of luck where Rep premades are popping up all the time, and for some reason Imps are doing really bad, I log off my Rep and go to the Imps to help out. Probably just 10~15 more guys doing the same and probably most of the matches that night would be more or less satisfying to both factions. This is what I wish the community would realize. It takes conscious effort to help everyone enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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