I don't understand the credit cap on premium members.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

As it was already mentioned by others here this would lead to different things:

[*]an increase in Bot- and Farm-Accounts (because easier to create and no need to pay for them)

 

This is true and is a tough one to deal with beyond removing easy to automate methods of gaining mass credits

 

[*]less subs because one important reason to have a sub (no credit cap) is missing

 

I don't think there would be too many people who sub solely to have credits though.

If people unsub to do other activities and the ability to do those other activities puts more money in BW's pocket due to unlocks ... that's a win for them.

 

[*]prices for CM-Unlocks will increase beyond reasonable Limits

 

No they won't, they will increase to a price range people are willing to pay for them as do most items on the GTN. If you personally find it unreasonable and don't want to farm for the credits ... to bad, subscribe or suffer. I would wager if you were a previous subscriber wanting to try out the idea of playing for free under such a system and found the pricing too restrictive you would quickly resub.

 

 

It was also mentioned that if there would be no cap for F2Ps and Prefs CM-Unlocks would be sold more often... Well that maybe right but only from the point of view of someone who wants to make a huge fortune because he is selling unlocks for 1mio. Credits and more... Sorry to say it but the result from that way of thinking will only be an increase in the demand for credits and therefore extand the market for Bots / Farmers / Sellers..!

 

As long as Bioware take reasonable steps to reduce the ease at which credits can be automatically generated ( which they still haven't imo with things like slicing nodes that just hand out credits and not patching the teleporting etc. bug bots are exploiting ) I don't see the harm here other than the spam - if anything it could almost work in BW's favour.

 

Also are you implying people are going to spend real cash to buy unlocks they didn't want to spend real cash on in the first place by subscribing? I don't quite get that logic.

 

 

If someone would really want to sell those CM-Unlocks he would put them up on the GTN for a price F2Ps and Prefs could afford with their cap..! But as greedy and arrogant as some players are they always want as much as they can get from someone ...

 

There in lies the flaw in the current system. For the amount of CC they cost it wouldn't be worth selling them for 350K or whatever it is when there are other items you can buy on the CM that sell for far more credits to subscribers who have the credits.

A credit cap removal would of course change this.

 

The best and easiest thing which could be done to increase the demand or to put it in an other way to increase the amount of unlocks sold via the GTN would be that BW puts price limits on those CM-Unlocks... For example all CM-Unlocks can't be sold for more than 250.000 credits via the GTN and personal trades... That would be the best way (but I can already see the next posts here mentioning that I am just stupid and that this will destroy the market and so on because the only thing important is to get as much credits from someone as possible )...

 

Not going to happen, if that happened no one would buy them to resell with the current cap ( for the reason in my previous point ) unless BW dropped the CC cost to the point it becomes the more profitable in terms of credits for the sellers than other CM items. For that to happen though they would be selling unlocks cheaper than they would be selling subscriptions for so you can see the fail in that concept right there.

 

You must not like it but it is a fact..! BW is a company and their goal is to earn profit therefore they lure people by giving them some scraps and if they want more they will have to pay for them (Unlocks via CM or a Sub)...

 

Except the argument is they may indeed make more money out of such a model.

 

I do quite like the example of WoW made earlier too, that also would be another option. You need to be a sub to begin being able to buy the "sub tokens" ( since you would need to get past the cap at least once to begin ) so that's 1 month guaranteed for BW + the increased money from the tokens.

 

Also to get the sub only content like KoTFE/rewards ... you still need sub.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't often agree with bran, but in this case, he is spot on the money.

 

I would unsub in a heartbeat if the credit cap went away. I'm very wealthy in the game, I could afford to buy unlocks and anything else I needed for the rest of the life of the game, if I could just avoid the credit cap.

 

So, um... Hey, lets get rid of the credit cap!

 

For you to do that though someone has to spend real money. If you price the unlocks so they put more money in BW's pocket than your sub fee ... they win more than you subbing ideally.

 

The WoW token example is a pretty decent example of this at play and though I don't play WoW I assume it's working well?

[RikuvonDrake]

Personally, I feel like it's the many little Quality of Life features, not necessary the one big feature, that creates a demand to subscribe, I went preferred for a few days but decided quite quickly to resubscribe as there was so much effort involved with not paying and the lack of QoL features. I think the restrictions on F2P are great, in a game such as this we subscribers need what little advantages and perks we get, or none would be a subscriber and there wouldn't be a game.

 

Everyone just wants free stuff nowadays

[TX_Angel]

Do people even bother reading past the title? I am a sub and I plan on purchasing CC to get the various unlocks. Something as paltry as a cred cap isn't going to keep me paying $15 a month while I might not get to play for weeks at a time.

 

How many credits do you have in the game? Do you buy anything in the game?

 

If not, fair enough, you might see the credit cap as "minor".

 

On the other hand, some people see it as game crushing... I normally buy everything in every pack, off the GTN and unlock it in collections, in the event I want it in the future... Spending 40 million on the unstable lightsaber is not a major expense when you're wealthy, but it becomes impossible for F2P/Preferred.

 

So the credit cap keeps me subbed. If I could spend $20 or even $40 one time to "unlock" the cap, I'd unsub tomorrow.

[Tsillah]

Do people even bother reading past the title? I am a sub and I plan on purchasing CC to get the various unlocks. Something as paltry as a cred cap isn't going to keep me paying $15 a month while I might not get to play for weeks at a time. I guess you guys can have fun foaming at the mouth because I brought up what is apparently still a hot-button topic. I mean, TBH, they are actually LOSING business from me if the stuff I can buy as preferred makes it such a hassle to play.

 

I think the fact that only subs can post here mean you guys just have a sever case of incestuous amplification. So much for rational discussion.

 

You've made 2 mistakes here.

 

1) You seem to think rational discussion is a fair expectation on a game forum. With that you ask for rational discussion but within no time you choose to use terminology like "incestuous amplification". Do you really consider yourself a fair partner for rational discussion?

 

2) In your original post you at least imply that you can buy off pretty much any limitation with cc unlocks. Now I am not sure how far your assumptions go here but the reality is there are a number of things you cannot buy off with cartel unlocks, so you may yet find yourself surprised at some of the remaining limitations.

 

All in all, you need to make a decision but this is the official forum that only subs can participate in so I would find it odd if you expected to find much support for your point since subs generally frown upon things that hollow out the value of their subscription. Call that point 3 if you prefer.

[XiamaraSimi]

So the credit cap keeps me subbed. If I could spend $20 or even $40 one time to "unlock" the cap, I'd unsub tomorrow.

 

This is what happened in Star Trek Online. When they went Free To Play, they sold a credit cap unlock. I, and everyone I know -immediately- unsubbed, bought the unlock, and havent subbed since, yet still play. FOUR years later.

 

Removing a major incentive to sub is a very bad business decision.

[Yorioko]

I began playing here as f2p, and later became pref before I kept subbing.

 

Why did I sub, well the cap was actually NOT the reason, I really found the cap to be not that bad.

The issue was the outright greed in pricing on GTN, unlocks etc, that is completely useless for subs are priced so insanely out of proportions compared to the credit caps.

 

Now that some items have a high price, fair enough.........even if out of range for f2p and pref player caps, I have no problems accepting, after all things are driven by supply and demand.

 

Now I am sure that for most f2p even pref the cap would be really a virtual "non-issue" if they realistically could make purchases the NEED.

 

I think this aspect, more so then the cap it self is the real issue.

 

THAT is what made me subscribe, not the credit cap pr say.

I would NOT have subscribed if prices on the most needed unlocks for f2p and pref were realistically priced

[MeNaCe-NZ]

How many credits do you have in the game? Do you buy anything in the game?

 

If not, fair enough, you might see the credit cap as "minor".

 

On the other hand, some people see it as game crushing... I normally buy everything in every pack, off the GTN and unlock it in collections, in the event I want it in the future... Spending 40 million on the unstable lightsaber is not a major expense when you're wealthy, but it becomes impossible for F2P/Preferred.

 

So the credit cap keeps me subbed. If I could spend $20 or even $40 one time to "unlock" the cap, I'd unsub tomorrow.

 

More people doing what you just stated though = more money for BW. Assuming of course the players buying packs etc. to convert to credits can keep up with demand.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You've made 2 mistakes here.

 

 

2) In your original post you at least imply that you can buy off pretty much any limitation with cc unlocks. Now I am not sure how far your assumptions go here but the reality is there are a number of things you cannot buy off with cartel unlocks, so you may yet find yourself surprised at some of the remaining limitations.

.

 

I'd posted this question on another thread actually ... what are the limitations that cannot be overcome? I didn't get a lot of responses beyond KoTFE, sub rewards and I think extra crew skill queues you can't unlock ... might be missing something but there doesn't seem to be a lot.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This is what happened in Star Trek Online. When they went Free To Play, they sold a credit cap unlock. I, and everyone I know -immediately- unsubbed, bought the unlock, and havent subbed since, yet still play. FOUR years later.

 

Removing a major incentive to sub is a very bad business decision.

 

A very bad business decision for a game you just said managed to survive 4 years with that model in place?

I'm lost ...

[TX_Angel]

For you to do that though someone has to spend real money. If you price the unlocks so they put more money in BW's pocket than your sub fee ... they win more than you subbing ideally.

 

The WoW token example is a pretty decent example of this at play and though I don't play WoW I assume it's working well?

 

I'm totally fine with having sub tokens, that idea is a no-brainer. Just don't sell sub tokens for CC, sell them for hard money, since CC isn't always "paid for".

 

As for unlocks, while you're correct, I don't need them all the time. I don't do THAT many ops anymore.

[Manathayria]

Do people even bother reading past the title? I am a sub and I plan on purchasing CC to get the various unlocks. Something as paltry as a cred cap isn't going to keep me paying $15 a month while I might not get to play for weeks at a time. I guess you guys can have fun foaming at the mouth because I brought up what is apparently still a hot-button topic. I mean, TBH, they are actually LOSING business from me if the stuff I can buy as preferred makes it such a hassle to play.

 

I think the fact that only subs can post here mean you guys just have a sever case of incestuous amplification. So much for rational discussion.

I get what you're saying - because you can't spend 15mil or w/e on the GTN to buy the CM hypercrate someone else posted, they're 'losing' money from you as a pref player because you can't spend into the game.

 

Here's the thing, hose crates sell at 15mil because there are enough subscribers paying that much to the people selling them. Losing one or two that maybe might buy those items from other players is not a big deal to them. They clearly are not worried about losing a few who are not paying them anymore who may or may not buy the cartel market items. You are not a guaranteed payout for EA. Those subscribers are.

 

The best action you can take if you have a friend you can trust that's a subscriber - get them to deposit credits into a personal guild for you and hold your credits there and get them to buy whatever items you need off and on. That's how I get around it when I know I'm going to stop playing for an extended period but know I'll still be able to log in occasionally.

 

No, it's not ideal but I think others here have made it abundantly clear it is only the credit cap that keeps them subscribing and I have no doubt they are not the minority in the game. Given how easy it is for long term players to eventually find ways to spread out their wealth to get around many of the restrictions over time (especially if not playing often like you said). It'd be nice to see them eased or slacked but there just isnt an incentive for it from EA/BW's point of view or it would have been done already.

 

Capping how much an unlock can be sold for on gtn isn't ever going to make the price go down given the cost of them in CM - they're expensive, especially the account wide unlocks. People would just stop posting them on GTN and set them in trades or require item trades etc for them. It is worth it to keep this in mind; they probably want you to either direct buy those from CM, or expect those unlocks to be something a current subscriber buys and stocks up on while subscribed.

 

I think all the restrictions on their 'free to play' model shows just how much they fought going F2P with this game.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Manathayria

[Yorioko]

I'd posted this question on another thread actually ... what are the limitations that cannot be overcome? I didn't get a lot of responses beyond KoTFE, sub rewards and I think extra crew skill queues you can't unlock ... might be missing something but there doesn't seem to be a lot.

 

You can't buy inlocks that matches what you get as a subscriber.

 

what you can buy is access to areas, ability use artifact equipment, additional ( one time use I think ) boosts to your credit cap.

 

You can not buy unlocks to raise your cap permanently, you can only open I think 2 extra quickbars, so there are limits to what you can and can not unlock with Credits through the various unlocks you find on GTN, naturally all of them priced out of range though, so they are in that sence really not an alternitive.

 

 

As pref you get a little bit more, actually as pref you can through buying in game unlocks on gtn ( if you can ever afford them) get pretty close to what sunscriber has. but again not a permanent raise in cap.

[XiamaraSimi]

A very bad business decision for a game you just said managed to survive 4 years with that model in place?

I'm lost ...

 

Because STO is P2W.

 

All of the best ships? Come from the cash shop. Thats where they make their money. The best Fleet Ships? They can only be made from parts bought from the Cash Shop. You want SWTOR to be P2W?

Edited March 13, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[TX_Angel]

A very bad business decision for a game you just said managed to survive 4 years with that model in place?

I'm lost ...

 

Leaving the servers up doesn't cost much. That doesn't mean it has been a success. Now I don't know if it wasn't either, I'm just saying.

[Yorioko]

Do people even bother reading past the title? I am a sub and I plan on purchasing CC to get the various unlocks. Something as paltry as a cred cap isn't going to keep me paying $15 a month while I might not get to play for weeks at a time. I guess you guys can have fun foaming at the mouth because I brought up what is apparently still a hot-button topic. I mean, TBH, they are actually LOSING business from me if the stuff I can buy as preferred makes it such a hassle to play.

 

I think the fact that only subs can post here mean you guys just have a sever case of incestuous amplification. So much for rational discussion.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what people here are saying as we may have you.

 

You ARE as of now a subscriber, but can not allways renew it so you are pref at times?

Is how I understood it.

 

You wanted to buy various unlocks etc, to use for when you are preferred?

 

And there is the issue, you can't unlock equal to be sub, but you can unlock some, like acount artifact etc.

As a sub you don't need these, and even as a sub your credit cap allows you to buy said unlocks but at a high price.

I bough mine while subbing to use for the rare occations I am not SO i know the issue

 

BUT in general the unlocks are too costly for f2p and pref. so to your friends you feel you talk into sub, and not ONLY for the credit cap.

 

If your cap as f2p is 350K then regardless what you do, you can not buy anything over that.unless you buy a 1 time sub, OR with real money buy CCs, making you Pref, in which case your cap STILL is to low .

 

Here is the issue, to buy what you need to have more options as a f2p or pref, you need to sub............I know it makes no sense...and the only place to place the blame is on the SUBS that over price unlocks

[TX_Angel]

More people doing what you just stated though = more money for BW. Assuming of course the players buying packs etc. to convert to credits can keep up with demand.

 

That is a fair point.

 

I'd be ok with that if they would drop the sub model completely and just go completely free to play.

[Yorioko]

That is a fair point.

 

I'd be ok with that if they would drop the sub model completely and just go completely free to play.

 

The problem is this.

 

BW do not dictate GTN and ingame economy AT ALL.

 

I recntly made a purchase on the CM, using my hard earned real money.

I then could sell this item at whatever price I want to put, 1 credit to 43 billion ( which is the game cap for a character)

I as player dictate what price I want, thus US as players run the economy. NOT BW.

 

WE set the GTN prices NOT BW

[DarthEnrique]

Another forum about credit cap? I think the credit cap is stupid, sorry but I do. I may be a sub but that's not even the reason I subscribed. Credit cap had nothing to do with it. I subbed because there's a lot of other restrictions besides the credit cap that kept me from enjoying the game such as limited amounts of Medical droids, the lvl 50 cap, etc. I honestly think the reason credit cap is such a big deal is because it's one restriction too many because of the GTN, I think it's outrageous that low demanded Cartel Market items that are currently available are on the GTN for over the credit cap of f2p and preferred ranging anywhere in the millions, that's greed plain and simple. Supply and demand plays no role in half the prices on the GTN.

 

I'm sorry but it makes no sense to put an Escrow items from the Cartel Market on the GTN for that high of prices when no f2p or preferred can afford it because of their credit cap. Obviously if they are trying to buy it off the GTN they cannot afford to pay for Cartel Coins. Honestly don't know what to say here other then greed rules this game and it hurts not only f2ps and preferred but subs as well.

 

Honestly they just need to get rid of it period, if people stop subbing because of it it's got nothing to do with the credit cap it has to do with how ****** this game is run, the player base, which is rude and awful towards each other, and crappy intensives to get subscriptions like consistent HK-55 rewards, half of us who sub don't want consistent HK-55 inspired rewards anyway, but they don't want to waste what money they already put into this game at the same time. I understand where a lot of people are coming from on this.

Edited March 14, 2016 by DarthEnrique

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'm totally fine with having sub tokens, that idea is a no-brainer. Just don't sell sub tokens for CC, sell them for hard money, since CC isn't always "paid for".

 

As for unlocks, while you're correct, I don't need them all the time. I don't do THAT many ops anymore.

 

True enough and I did mentioned earlier on the whole referral program should be scrapped or at least significantly changed to remove that large amount of free CC's in the game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Because STO is P2W.

 

All of the best ships? Come from the cash shop. Thats where they make their money. The best Fleet Ships? They can only be made from parts bought from the Cash Shop. You want SWTOR to be P2W?

 

If it keeps the lights on sure why not ... I don't PVP anyway.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The problem is this.

 

BW do not dictate GTN and ingame economy AT ALL.

 

I recntly made a purchase on the CM, using my hard earned real money.

I then could sell this item at whatever price I want to put, 1 credit to 43 billion ( which is the game cap for a character)

I as player dictate what price I want, thus US as players run the economy. NOT BW.

 

WE set the GTN prices NOT BW

 

Err no sorry you do not dictate what price you are going to get for that item, the buyers do.

You can list things for any price you like - doesn't mean you won't be instantly under cut or that anyone would buy it if you weren't.

 

Point is it doesn't matter what credit price things are put up for if you have no credit cap. The market will balance itself out when there isn't a limited supply.

[DarthEnrique]

True enough and I did mentioned earlier on the whole referral program should be scrapped or at least significantly changed to remove that large amount of free CC's in the game.

 

Agreed I don't refer people to this game. Don't see the point. Not worth it when you get a lot of better stuff off the CM then you do from the rewards of referring someone....

[Mdgshorty]

There will always be threads like this. The thing is, there will always be people on both sides of the fence. I believe that many of the restrictions are unnecessary though. I believe the cap is one of them when most of the stuff that you can buy off the GTN is way over the cap.

 

I am not a fan of the way the escrow is currently working. Rather than a one time only increase, it should be a permanent increase at 50K, 150K, and 600K intervals. They will just increase the cap every time you use one of these escrows.

 

I also think they should be adding weekly sub passes in game. This would be a win win situation for everyone. The only thing they won't get is cartel coins.

[Yorioko]

Err no sorry you do not dictate what price you are going to get for that item, the buyers do.

You can list things for any price you like - doesn't mean you won't be instantly under cut or that anyone would buy it if you weren't.

 

Point is it doesn't matter what credit price things are put up for if you have no credit cap. The market will balance itself out when there isn't a limited supply.

 

I think you misunderstood me.

We do in many ways control also the PURCHASE price.

 

Becuse the economy IS what it is I would be silly to put an item 50, 60 70 80% lower then the one above, those that do "play the GTN" have some ruels, and undercutting too much is wrong.

 

My issue is that becuse the ballance between realisic prices for f2p and pref are too much in the favor of the subscriber, pref players and f2p can't afford the unlocks they need.

Once they subm they don't need them...so subbing don't solbve it for them.

 

So if an ulock was PRICED in a region where the customer group was able to pay, I thin alot would be improved in regards to ecconomy.

After why even try to sell an unlock at a price higher then any pref can afford........why in the sands of Jakku wouls a sub pay for an update he don't need.

 

BECUSE this over pricing we as player are running the ecconomy