Are ops/raids outdated?

[CarpeSangrea]

No need for MMOs to move in that direction; the already underway trend towards always-on DRM will support solo gamers just fine.

 

You mean that trend that gamers are fighting tooth-and-nail every step of the way? That kind of crap destroys games...just look at the reviews for hitman.

[Slowpokeking]

You definitely aren't. The last time I did MMO raiding with any real regularity was the beginning of WoW's Cataclysm expansion. I did a little bit here during the game's first year, but since then the only raiding I've done at all is a handful of LFR's in wow, which honestly really doesn't count as those feel more like random dungeons, just with more people

 

Yep, too much drama and you got to set schedule for a game.

[robertthebard]

Yep, too much drama and you got to set schedule for a game.

 

Where did the poster indicate either of these things? Just looking to pad your count?

 

Here's the deal, for me: I haven't run KP since a pair of my guildmates got done with it. I didn't run it before because I found tactical FPs to be boring to the extreme. Now you come along claiming that the people that run Ops would prefer them to be tactical too, just because you don't like filling a group? No, thank you. If forming a group is too hard for you, and I can see a pattern here as to why that may be, perhaps the problem isn't entirely based on everyone else.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's starting to get ridiculous, someone is saying that new ops+ old ops on original level didn't work. That was what WOW had been doing for SO LONG and what SWTOR was planning to do.

 

Not someone, me. It didn't work because BW changed it to how it is now. Are you then trying to say they did this because they wanted things to fail? From what I've observed old ops have the largest uptake in participation they've ever had since they were relevant at their original max level ( and when it was max level ).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Doesn't mean others won't.

 

They can go do something else, no need to cater to a minority at the expense of the majority who like it this way. Your topic hasn't even got much support beyond you yourself which should demonstrate it's not a universally popular idea.

 

Depend on what content, very old content should be easy.

 

Go play contra ... that's very old ... should that be easy? How about Dark Souls? Should they make that easier now that it's old? What a silly concept.

 

 

Why? You are saying that pugs shouldn't run HM or NIM even after 3-4 years? That's reall big elitism.

 

I've done NIM SnV with pugs thanks.

 

Really don't believe you but ok, whatever.

If they're skilled enough by all means go for it but it's in the name "Hard mode" and "Nightmare mode" - not "easier now it's old mode". It shouldn't cater to players not capable or interested in doing as it was designed.

 

It's old so it should be put into rest, it is how MMO content goes.

 

Into rest? So it should be removed entirely now?

 

 

I'm on Harbinger and yes, 99% of the pugs only do these. Didn't you say that pugs should never try HM?

 

Lol 99% ... what a ridiculous "statistic". If that one statement alone doesn't prove how full of crap your idea and supporting argument for it is I don't know what else can.

 

 

No, they were supposed to be challenging during their era, not stay there forever as zombies.

 

Zombies? People run them though ... thus not zombies. Just because you can't doesn't mean no one is. Oh that's right you think everyone only ever runs KP/EV HM because you live in some different reality to the rest of us.

 

 

Why shouldn't people skip over? Their era is long gone, people should have the freedom to try them with easy pugs or skip them rather than still do these OLD OPS for gears. Of course people shouldn't run these ops for gears, they should run new ones and Bioware should give out new ones.

 

Then go campaign for new ops - your argument there has no relevance to making the old ops "tactical" or worse ... down leveling them.

People can pug sm modes really easy now ... the fact you seem to think it's difficult tells me you're just not very good and should expend more energy into getting better at the game than posting nonsense ideas like this.

 

No, that's not the case, try to group with pugs more. We are talking about pugs.

 

*** are you even talking about now? What's not the case? You are basically saying now that people who have an interest in tanking won't have a class capable of tanking ... well they aren't interested in tanking then are they or they would have a class that has the ability.

Sheesh put some thought into your posts at least.

 

 

And they still toned down level 60 characters and brought TFB into 55. The problem isn't that the old ops were stay at their level, the problem is that only 2 ops and 1 boss encounter was out through out the whole 3.0 cycle, still more pugs were trying NIMs at that time. Now? There is none.

 

It's NIM ... it's not designed for pugs, SM is. How hard is this for you to conceive? I mean ... wow.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't think these people want to simply not grouping, they just want to have the option to enjoy the content without grouping and avoid all the personal drama or had to come on during specific time.

 

Which is why there is so much content to cater to such players ... new content too. Operations don't also need to fall under the "easy mode" hammer more than they already have with bolster and SM.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You mean that trend that gamers are fighting tooth-and-nail every step of the way? That kind of crap destroys games...just look at the reviews for hitman.

 

Hmmm this post prompted me to look into this and the reviews seem positive critically and mixed from the fanbase so what were you meaning in this regard?

 

I only just noted it was episodic too, guess I haven't been paying attention. What a stupid bloody idea.

 

Very few games pull off episodic properly imo and only one publisher does it well in telltale.

 

If Halflife 2 couldn't do it and basically lead to the death of the franchise without completing the story ( so damn annoyed about this, hurry up and die gabe ) then not sure why others get the idea it's a good plan.

 

Full games with episodic dlc afterwards ... that's your money tree.

Edited March 18, 2016 by MeNaCe-NZ

[Slowpokeking]

Where did the poster indicate either of these things? Just looking to pad your count?

 

Here's the deal, for me: I haven't run KP since a pair of my guildmates got done with it. I didn't run it before because I found tactical FPs to be boring to the extreme. Now you come along claiming that the people that run Ops would prefer them to be tactical too, just because you don't like filling a group? No, thank you. If forming a group is too hard for you, and I can see a pattern here as to why that may be, perhaps the problem isn't entirely based on everyone else.

 

No, I'm saying that such VERY OLD ops which happened 2-3 xpc ago, should be very easy to people now. You want challenge, ask for new content.

[Slowpokeking]

Not someone, me. It didn't work because BW changed it to how it is now. Are you then trying to say they did this because they wanted things to fail? From what I've observed old ops have the largest uptake in participation they've ever had since they were relevant at their original max level ( and when it was max level ).

 

It worked on most of the healthy MMOs, it didn't work for long because Bioware didn't release new content, understand it.

[Slowpokeking]

They can go do something else, no need to cater to a minority at the expense of the majority who like it this way. Your topic hasn't even got much support beyond you yourself which should demonstrate it's not a universally popular idea.

What do you mean majority? The majority don't even raid so much.

 

 

 

Go play contra ... that's very old ... should that be easy? How about Dark Souls? Should they make that easier now that it's old? What a silly concept.

Fallacy, we are talking about a MMO, MMO content have their lifespan, from elite's game to pug's fun, that's how the content works, understand it.

 

 

Really don't believe you but ok, whatever.

If they're skilled enough by all means go for it but it's in the name "Hard mode" and "Nightmare mode" - not "easier now it's old mode". It shouldn't cater to players not capable or interested in doing as it was designed.

So what? There is Heroic 2+ but people could solo it. These were Hard/Nightmare during their era, but shouldn't be anymore because their era has long gone.

 

 

Into rest? So it should be removed entirely now?

It shouldn't have been rescaled and brought up.

 

Lol 99% ... what a ridiculous "statistic". If that one statement alone doesn't prove how full of crap your idea and supporting argument for it is I don't know what else can.

 

What crap idea? It was what WOW had been doing and what SWTOR was trying to do, they only rescaled the old ones because they didn't have new raid content to offer.

 

 

Zombies? People run them though ... thus not zombies. Just because you can't doesn't mean no one is. Oh that's right you think everyone only ever runs KP/EV HM because you live in some different reality to the rest of us.

People run such very old ones for top gear...The game still rely on such old content to keep the "challenge", that's how is becomes zombies.

 

What do you mean rest of us? Even on Harbinger Pugs only run EV/KP mostly.

 

 

 

Then go campaign for new ops - your argument there has no relevance to making the old ops "tactical" or worse ... down leveling them.

People can pug sm modes really easy now ... the fact you seem to think it's difficult tells me you're just not very good and should expend more energy into getting better at the game than posting nonsense ideas like this.

That's how MMO works, new content comes out and old ones were put into rest, welcome to argue it.

 

*** are you even talking about now? What's not the case? You are basically saying now that people who have an interest in tanking won't have a class capable of tanking ... well they aren't interested in tanking then are they or they would have a class that has the ability.

Sheesh put some thought into your posts at least.

No, many people don't have tank classes. They are good and they could have been good tanks but they didn't choose to play one.

 

 

It's NIM ... it's not designed for pugs, SM is. How hard is this for you to conceive? I mean ... wow.

It was not, now it's 2-3 xpcs ago. MC and BWL was designed for 40 full party, it doesn't mean these still should require 40 people to run in WotLK. What you don't get is the lifespan of MMO content.

[Slowpokeking]

MeNaCe-NZ, you failed to understand one thing:

 

Hard content should be hard when they come out, but not always stay at this difficulty. Every MMO content have their lifespan. From utterly hard to easy with time because people's experience, gear and level changes. SWTOR was doing it at first, it was forced to keep old content's difficulty only because it failed to make new raid content.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

What do you mean majority? The majority don't even raid so much.

 

The majority who enjoy raiding as it is compared to a minority who would get benefit out of your system as evidence by it's failure when it was in place earlier ( KP/EV/EC @ 50 when cap was 60 )

 

 

Fallacy, we are talking about a MMO, MMO content have their lifespan, from elite's game to pug's fun, that's how the content works, understand it.

 

Oh so you get to right the rules on how MMO content should work? Nice to know, guess Bioware bucked the trend and make traditional MMO concepts more popular by not having the content at level.

 

 

So what? There is Heroic 2+ but people could solo it. These were Hard/Nightmare during their era, but shouldn't be anymore because their era has long gone.

 

Heroics hard/nightmare? Lol you're gold ...

 

It shouldn't have been rescaled and brought up.

 

Yes it should, it reinvigorated them.

 

What crap idea? It was what WOW had been doing and what SWTOR was trying to do, they only rescaled the old ones because they didn't have new raid content to offer.

 

They rescaled them because few people weren't doing them ( they have the metrics, not you ) and now more are. Variety is the spice of life as they say. As to what Wow does ... who cares ... that game can live off it's name alone for years to come. If a stupid panda addon can't kill it nothing can.

 

 

People run such very old ones for top gear...The game still rely on such old content to keep the "challenge", that's how is becomes zombies.

 

People run them though, that's the key here. Why they run them you don't know - you are just guessing. Aslong as they are being run though and more than they were before at say 50 means this system works and your concept is destined for failure as it was before.

 

What do you mean rest of us? Even on Harbinger Pugs only run EV/KP mostly.

 

No, that's a lie backed by a statistic you invented in your head.

 

That's how MMO works, new content comes out and old ones were put into rest, welcome to argue it.

 

That's how YOU THINK MMOs should work. That's the factual statement.

 

No, many people don't have tank classes. They are good and they could have been good tanks but they didn't choose to play one.

 

Because they don't want to tank ... how does that not compute in your head?

 

It was not, now it's 2-3 xpcs ago. MC and BWL was designed for 40 full party, it doesn't mean these still should require 40 people to run in WotLK. What you don't get is the lifespan of MMO content.

 

I don't play Wow and thus don't care for Wow. Go play WoW if you want it designed the way you want it because it sounds like it's just up your avenue.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

MeNaCe-NZ, you failed to understand one thing:

 

Hard content should be hard when they come out, but not always stay at this difficulty. Every MMO content have their lifespan. From utterly hard to easy with time because people's experience, gear and level changes. SWTOR was doing it at first, it was forced to keep old content's difficulty only because it failed to make new raid content.

 

It was going it at first and now it's not. That's because the current system is deemed to be more popular than the old system.

 

They aren't going to change it to get less people to do the content, that makes no sense.

 

This whole rant of your stems from your inability to do content as it is now it would seem. Go do some heroics or something if operations are too much for you.

[Slowpokeking]

The majority who enjoy raiding as it is compared to a minority who would get benefit out of your system as evidence by it's failure when it was in place earlier ( KP/EV/EC @ 50 when cap was 60 )[/quote}

Sorry most of these people are gone because of no new content.

 

 

Oh so you get to right the rules on how MMO content should work? Nice to know, guess Bioware bucked the trend and make traditional MMO concepts more popular by not having the content at level.

 

Yes, because it's how the most successful MMO go and what SWTOR was trying to go.

 

 

Heroics hard/nightmare? Lol you're gold ...

These weren't designed for solo players but it's soloable now. Same for hard/nightmare mode, people should be able to do it when their era is gone.

 

 

Yes it should, it reinvigorated them.

 

Why?

 

They rescaled them because few people weren't doing them ( they have the metrics, not you ) and now more are. Variety is the spice of life as they say. As to what Wow does ... who cares ... that game can live off it's name alone for years to come. If a stupid panda addon can't kill it nothing can.

 

No, they rescaled them because there is no new raid content to offer. Look at how did SWTOR previously go and how many people were doing ops at that time.

 

 

People run them though, that's the key here. Why they run them you don't know - you are just guessing. Aslong as they are being run though and more than they were before at say 50 means this system works and your concept is destined for failure as it was before.

I know because they want gears, not because these VERY OLD content are fun to them, easy and simple.

 

 

No, that's a lie backed by a statistic you invented in your head.

Sorry that's what I've seen.

 

 

That's how YOU THINK MMOs should work. That's the factual statement.

 

No, that's how did the most successful MMO go, and how did SWTOR go before it couldn't produce more new content.

 

Because they don't want to tank ... how does that not compute in your head?

So why do others have to wait so long for tank?

 

 

I don't play Wow and thus don't care for Wow. Go play WoW if you want it designed the way you want it because it sounds like it's just up your avenue.

 

I'm not a raider, if I was I would not have picked SWTOR because no new content, ask the raiders here, do they want new content plus old content turns easy, or current ops.

[Slowpokeking]

It was going it at first and now it's not. That's because the current system is deemed to be more popular than the old system.

 

They aren't going to change it to get less people to do the content, that makes no sense.

 

This whole rant of your stems from your inability to do content as it is now it would seem. Go do some heroics or something if operations are too much for you.

Really? Why do I see most of the people were doing KP/EV and in 3.0 cycle people are doing NIM ops with pugs?

Ask people here, do they want new ops+old ops went to rest or the current system.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sorry most of these people are gone because of no new content.

 

They're the people doing the raids right now, to imply no one is doing them is about as nonsense as the rest of your argument.

 

Yes, because it's how the most successful MMO go and what SWTOR was trying to go.

 

I don't think that's the key to other MMOs success and if it were I'm sure SWToR would have kept it how it was, they changed because it doesn't work.

 

These weren't designed for solo players but it's soloable now. Same for hard/nightmare mode, people should be able to do it when their era is gone.

 

Hardmode/Nightmare heroics don't exist ... that's in your imagination.

 

 

Why?

 

Because more people are doing them now than were in the past as evidenced by the increased 'LFG' for classic ops than what we had before ... maybe you weren't around then.

 

No, they rescaled them because there is no new raid content to offer. Look at how did SWTOR previously go and how many people were doing ops at that time.

 

I read over the developer blog on why they made the changes, that is not what it says. I suggest you do the same and take off the tin foil hat.

 

I know because they want gears, not because these VERY OLD content are fun to them, easy and simple.

 

You don't know at all, you assume.

Sorry that's what I've seen.

 

I doubt you've even seen that and are just making **** up to try support your silly idea.

I was logged in to Harb just earlier and saw as many people LFG for SnV as I did for EV HM and EV HM is op of the week.

 

 

No, that's how did the most successful MMO go, and how did SWTOR go before it couldn't produce more new content.

 

Show me proof of this. What MMOs these are and how having old raids not be relevant at max level is key to their success,

 

So why do others have to wait so long for tank?

 

You're not even making sense now.

 

I'm not a raider, if I was I would not have picked SWTOR because no new content, ask the raiders here, do they want new content plus old content turns easy, or current ops.

 

We would like new content end of sentence.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Really? Why do I see most of the people were doing KP/EV and in 3.0 cycle people are doing NIM ops with pugs?

Ask people here, do they want new ops+old ops went to rest or the current system.

 

Please retype that first sentence, it doesn't make sense and I'm not going to try guess at what you're trying to imply.

 

People are going to want new content but you want to gate their options behind "you only get new content of the old content isn't max level" ... what an idiotic choice.

 

People wnat new content end of story ... they don't give a **** about the rest if it means getting new content.

 

Easiest way to get new content is to get new content AND keep the current system. Everyone wins except the people too lazy to learn how to run a SM operations in it's current form ( it's pretty easy for anyone with patience ).

Those people can go do the other 100's of hours of easy content in the game.

[Slowpokeking]

They're the people doing the raids right now, to imply no one is doing them is about as nonsense as the rest of your argument.

How many of them? Even in 3.0, few people are raiders compare to the majority, which is why Bioware gave up on raid, and now many many of them are gone.

 

 

 

I don't think that's the key to other MMOs success and if it were I'm sure SWToR would have kept it how it was, they changed because it doesn't work.

Why isn't it the key to MMOS's success? New content replacing the old is quite ordinary lifespan, if you keep the old ones' difficulty

 

1. What are they going to drop? People are doing KP/EV HM now only because it drops top gear, if these old ops drop top tier gear, what should the new ones drop?

 

2. Most of the players are casual, it's stupid to keep the old content from these people when the raiders had move on. These content would have been wasted.

 

Did it work now? Why did raiders leave?

 

 

Hardmode/Nightmare heroics don't exist ... that's in your imagination.

 

Understand what others were talking about.

 

Because more people are doing them now than were in the past as evidenced by the increased 'LFG' for classic ops than what we had before ... maybe you weren't around then.

More people? More raiders plus other players had left. People are only doing them because they drop top tier gear and this would not have worked if there is new content. Even now, the other HM/NIM were affected by this system. There were more people running these ops in 3.0..

 

Why didn't 2.0 work like that? Because the 55 ops are still hard and it doesn't drop good gear. Right now KP/EV drops top tier gear. This would not have worked if there had been new ops.

 

 

I read over the developer blog on why they made the changes, that is not what it says. I suggest you do the same and take off the tin foil hat.

The developers made statement of how many people are doing raid

 

 

You don't know at all, you assume.

I have my experience and a few posters said it as well.

 

 

I doubt you've even seen that and are just making **** up to try support your silly idea.

I was logged in to Harb just earlier and saw as many people LFG for SnV as I did for EV HM and EV HM is op of the week.

Yes, SnV, Story Mode, nice try, even in 3.0 people were running them. Have you logged on in 3.0, you would have seen pugs asking for NIM.

 

 

Show me proof of this. What MMOs these are and how having old raids not be relevant at max level is key to their success,

WOW, the most successful MMO, and SWTOR once had gone this path.

 

 

You're not even making sense now.

Understand what I was saying

 

 

We would like new content end of sentence.

 

Then this system would not have worked if there is new content.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

Please retype that first sentence, it doesn't make sense and I'm not going to try guess at what you're trying to imply.

 

People are going to want new content but you want to gate their options behind "you only get new content of the old content isn't max level" ... what an idiotic choice.

 

People wnat new content end of story ... they don't give a **** about the rest if it means getting new content.

 

Easiest way to get new content is to get new content AND keep the current system. Everyone wins except the people too lazy to learn how to run a SM operations in it's current form ( it's pretty easy for anyone with patience ).

Those people can go do the other 100's of hours of easy content in the game.

 

Why didn't you get it?

 

The current system only worked on EV/KP HM because they drop top tier gear. Because of this, there were even fewer people running DF/DP HM and NIM than 3.0 because there was no point to do so, the difficulty had increased and you don't get better gear from it(EV/KP HM could drop 224 sometimes).

 

The current system would not have worked if there had been new content at all.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

How many of them? Even in 3.0, few people are raiders compare to the majority, which is why Bioware gave up on raid, and now many many of them are gone.

 

Few people are raiders compared to non raiders in every MMO. Doesn't mean an MMO shouldn't do things to try get people into raiding as Bioware did with 4.0 changes for the betterment of the game.

 

Why isn't it the key to MMOS's success? New content replacing the old is quite ordinary lifespan, if you keep the old ones' difficulty

 

No, you were trying to imply "keeping old content easy" was the key. If all you want to do is whinge about a lack of new raids then go do that. Stop whinging about making the current raids into tactical or deleveling them - THAT is nothing to do with an MMOs successs.

 

 

1. What are they going to drop? People are doing KP/EV HM now only because it drops top gear, if these old ops drop top tier gear, what should the new ones drop?

 

What does it matter what they drop? What sort of strawman **** is this? You're trying to justify down leveling which if anything will cause even worse gear to drop that is utterly useless ( as it used to ) and encourage even less people to do it.

 

2. Most of the players are casual, it's stupid to keep the old content from these people when the raiders had move on. These content would have been wasted.

 

People are raiding. Old content isn't withheld from anyone. Get to 50, join a group and off you go. If you're too crap to do this and learn how to do the op that's your problem.

 

Did it work now? Why did raiders leave?

 

Well the old ops are more popular than ever so yes it did work. Also "some" of the raiders left, there are still plenty left staying around for whatever else interests in the game as well as raiding.

Many are taking the opportunity to beat the older raids at level as opposed to in god mode which is what unskilled players such as yourself want.

 

Understand what others were talking about.

 

There are no others, just you.

 

More people? More raiders plus other players had left. People are only doing them because they drop top tier gear and this would not have worked if there is new content. Even now, the other HM/NIM were affected by this system. There were more people running these ops in 3.0..

 

Prove it.

 

Why didn't 2.0 work like that? Because the 55 ops are still hard and it doesn't drop good gear. Right now KP/EV drops top tier gear. This would not have worked if there had been new ops.

 

That was as much a failure as keeping classic ops at 50 was thus we have this improved system. Easy to understand if you try.

 

 

The developers made statement of how many people are doing raid

 

Post it.

 

I have my experience and a few posters said it as well.

 

You're inexperienced experience is severely lacking as any form of evidence.

 

Yes, SnV, Story Mode, nice try, even in 3.0 people were running them. Have you logged on in 3.0, you would have seen pugs asking for NIM.

 

Pugs rarely ever do NIM raids. You want to downlevel NIM so you can get drops you're not good enough to get now - it's that simple. There is no "experience something they haven't experienced before" because players can experience the story and content in SM - NIM is just for those wanting an extra challenge, removing that challenge by downleveling stops it being NIM thus it's not required. Go play SM.

 

WOW, the most successful MMO, and SWTOR once had gone this path.

 

You didn't answer the question. Posting words spewed out of your imagination is not proof. Show me how WoW got to be sooo successful by having old operations people could cruise through ... show me their tactical mode operations ... show me how those things are the KEY to wow's success.

 

Understand what I was saying

 

You're often talking gibberish, it's not possible.

 

Then this system would not have worked if there is new content.

 

Sure it would, people would do new content, get locked out, then go do the other content ... they wouldn't go do classic 50 ops for absolutely no reason because they have godmode on and the gear is useless ... wake up to reality.

 

You keep repeating the same crap yet haven't given on sufficient reason for a tactical mode operation or reducing the level other than your own greed at wanting nightmare mode drops you never earned.

 

Get better, go earn the drops properly like anyone else.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Why didn't you get it?

 

It was broken english, I'm not babelfish - it's not my job to translate things for you.

 

The current system only worked on EV/KP HM because they drop top tier gear. Because of this, there were even fewer people running DF/DP HM and NIM than 3.0 because there was no point to do so, the difficulty had increased and you don't get better gear from it(EV/KP HM could drop 224 sometimes).

The current system would not have worked if there had been new content at all.

 

The current system would have worked better if there were new content because there would be even more for people to do.

 

The old system would have left any new content go stale much quicker as people had nothing to do between lock outs.

 

Also the current system works on all operations ... every day there is LFG for the oepration of the day and every day that operation changes.

 

Is it HM/NIM? No of course not but who cares because apparently you want to make tactical modes or reduce the level so everyone can do it so HM/NIm has absolutely nothing to do with achieveing that goal ... you are talking about a mode easier than story mode ... it's not needed except for lazy noobs such as you are making yourself out to be.

[Slowpokeking]

Few people are raiders compared to non raiders in every MMO. Doesn't mean an MMO shouldn't do things to try get people into raiding as Bioware did with 4.0 changes for the betterment of the game.

But only around 10% of the players are elite raiders. If they want people to get into raid, get new content. Did the raiders like the 4.0 setting? No. At least there were new ops coming out in the 3.0 cycle.

 

 

No, you were trying to imply "keeping old content easy" was the key. If all you want to do is whinge about a lack of new raids then go do that. Stop whinging about making the current raids into tactical or deleveling them - THAT is nothing to do with an MMOs successs.

 

It's all about lifespan of MMO. New ones came out and old ones were put to rest and become pugs' fun, understand it.

 

What does it matter what they drop? What sort of strawman **** is this? You're trying to justify down leveling which if anything will cause even worse gear to drop that is utterly useless ( as it used to ) and encourage even less people to do it.

Drop=everything, the drop doesn't match the difficulty compare to other ops=Nobody is goinna do it.

There were more people running the down leveled ops for achievement/mount/decor than now because of the difficulty, understand it..

 

 

People are raiding. Old content isn't withheld from anyone. Get to 50, join a group and off you go. If you're too crap to do this and learn how to do the op that's your problem.

Oh really? More raider have left compare to 3.0 and there were even fewer people are running the nightmare ops now.

 

Well the old ops are more popular than ever so yes it did work. Also "some" of the raiders left, there are still plenty left staying around for whatever else interests in the game as well as raiding.

Many are taking the opportunity to beat the older raids at level as opposed to in god mode which is what unskilled players such as yourself want.

The old ops are more popular? Only KP/EV HM are. There were fewer people doing the other harder ones because many of the raiders have left and most of the other people won't even try the hard ones, especially since they could get the same level gear from much easier content.

 

 

There are no others, just you.

Open your eyes and look at it.

 

 

Prove it.

Look at how many people are running NIM EC/DP/DF compare to 3.0, see the truth.

 

 

That was as much a failure as keeping classic ops at 50 was thus we have this improved system. Easy to understand if you try.

A failure? That was what the most popular MMO had done. The current system only helped KP and EV HM much and hurt NIM ops even more. If there had been new ops this would not have worked at all.

 

 

Post it.

Look at previous pages.

 

You're inexperienced experience is severely lacking as any form of evidence.

Harbinger, the most popular server's situation is evidence.

 

 

Pugs rarely ever do NIM raids. You want to downlevel NIM so you can get drops you're not good enough to get now - it's that simple. There is no "experience something they haven't experienced before" because players can experience the story and content in SM - NIM is just for those wanting an extra challenge, removing that challenge by downleveling stops it being NIM thus it's not required. Go play SM.

Have you ever played 3.0? There were quite a few pugs running it almost every few days.

Do you even understand how does a MMO lifespan work? If old NIM ops always stand as so hard, pugs and most of the people won't even try it, and the elite guilds will move on when there is new ones coming out. They are not gonna waste their effort on these old ones. Thus nobody will even run these ops and it gets wasted. This, is why ops has its lifespan. And the current system is not saving it.

 

You didn't answer the question. Posting words spewed out of your imagination is not proof. Show me how WoW got to be sooo successful by having old operations people could cruise through ... show me their tactical mode operations ... show me how those things are the KEY to wow's success.

NO, I post the real experience. I already explained to you how did the current system work and why should MMO content have a healthy lifespan, you just don't get it.

 

 

 

Sure it would, people would do new content, get locked out, then go do the other content ... they wouldn't go do classic 50 ops for absolutely no reason because they have godmode on and the gear is useless ... wake up to reality.

What? New content is not that easy to beat, the elite guild will simply stuck on it until they could farm it rather than waste their time on very old (and still hard) ops. Others aren't gonna try HM or NIM when it's not worthy, only SM will be popular among the majority, and in 3.0 it hasn't been a problem at all. As long as there are weekly/daily GF, there are people running for SM old ops. And people will try old HM/NIM to get what they couldn't get.

 

 

You keep repeating the same crap yet haven't given on sufficient reason for a tactical mode operation or reducing the level other than your own greed at wanting nightmare mode drops you never earned.

 

Get better, go earn the drops properly like anyone else.

 

I already explained everything about a MMO's system, you just don't get it.

[Slowpokeking]

The current system would have worked better if there were new content because there would be even more for people to do.

 

The old system would have left any new content go stale much quicker as people had nothing to do between lock outs.

 

Also the current system works on all operations ... every day there is LFG for the oepration of the day and every day that operation changes.

 

Is it HM/NIM? No of course not but who cares because apparently you want to make tactical modes or reduce the level so everyone can do it so HM/NIm has absolutely nothing to do with achieveing that goal ... you are talking about a mode easier than story mode ... it's not needed except for lazy noobs such as you are making yourself out to be.

Sorry it won't. With new ops, the top level gears would be taken out from the old ones and nobody would waste time on HM and NIM, they would only run SM GF like they did in 3.0, which was already popular before the rescale system. As for top guilds, they won't waste time on other HM/NIM when they got new bosses to beat. Even now, there were fewer people doing DF/DP HM NIM because they had been brought back on level and many elite guild had quit due to no new content. THIS, is why a content shouldn't always stay at such difficulty level.

 

Every day 99% of the LFG is SM GF or EV/KP SM, in 3.0 there were SM GF and NIM ops thanks.

 

So what? What's wrong for new ops' SM being easier than super old ops' HM or even NIM mode? This, is how a MMO's content works.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[MeNaCe-NZ]

But only around 10% of the players are elite raiders. If they want people to get into raid, get new content. Did the raiders like the 4.0 setting? No. At least there were new ops coming out in the 3.0 cycle.

 

Nothing to do with tactical/down leveling current raids.

 

It's all about lifespan of MMO. New ones came out and old ones were put to rest and become pugs' fun, understand it.

 

They are fun now, understand it.

 

 

Drop=everything, the drop doesn't match the difficulty compare to other ops=Nobody is goinna do it.

There were more people running the down leveled ops for achievement/mount/decor than now because of the difficulty, understand it..

 

There weren't more people running those ops, that's your imagination again. But by all means ... prove that they were, burden of proof lies with you here.

 

Oh really? More raider have left compare to 3.0 and there were even fewer people are running the nightmare ops now.

 

As you say due to lack of new ops - making these tactical/down leveled doesn't change this fact.

 

The old ops are more popular? Only KP/EV HM are. There were fewer people doing the other harder ones because many of the raiders have left and most of the other people won't even try the hard ones, especially since they could get the same level gear from much easier content.

 

Yes, they are more popular now ( where people can run it 50-65 ) than they were solely at 50.

 

Open your eyes and look at it.

 

I read the thread ... not seeing many others or anyone jumping in to your defense here if what you are saying is such a popular concept. Other threads of popular options can have 100+ individual posters in support of a concept ... no your idea though ... wonder why.

 

Look at how many people are running NIM EC/DP/DF compare to 3.0, see the truth.

 

NIM has nothing to do with giving people a tactical/down leveled operation - you just want downlevel nim to get the rewards because you're too crap now.

 

 

A failure? That was what the most popular MMO had done. The current system only helped KP and EV HM much and hurt NIM ops even more. If there had been new ops this would not have worked at all.

 

Prove it.

 

Look at previous pages.

 

In other words you can't.

 

Harbinger, the most popular server's situation is evidence.

 

Which I play and see a completely different situation to what you describe ... as I said it's all in your head.

 

Have you ever played 3.0? There were quite a few pugs running it almost every few days.

 

********. Prove it.

 

Do you even understand how does a MMO lifespan work? If old NIM ops always stand as so hard, pugs and most of the people won't even try it, and the elite guilds will move on when there is new ones coming out. They are not gonna waste their effort on these old ones. Thus nobody will even run these ops and it gets wasted. This, is why ops has its lifespan. And the current system is not saving it.

 

It's NIM - it's not designed for pugs.

 

 

NO, I post the real experience. I already explained to you how did the current system work and why should MMO content have a healthy lifespan, you just don't get it.

 

I get that your delusional in your beliefs.

 

What? New content is not that easy to beat, the elite guild will simply stuck on it until they could farm it rather than waste their time on very old (and still hard) ops. Others aren't gonna try HM or NIM when it's not worthy, only SM will be popular among the majority, and in 3.0 it hasn't been a problem at all. As long as there are weekly/daily GF, there are people running for SM old ops. And people will try old HM/NIM to get what they couldn't get.

 

So the current system works then ... just needs new ops. Nice to know.

 

ady explained everything about a MMO's system, you just don't get it.

 

You explained how you wished it worked for all MMOs.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Sorry it won't. With new ops, the top level gears would be taken out from the old ones and nobody would waste time on HM and NIM, they would only run SM GF like they did in 3.0, which was already popular before the rescale system. As for top guilds, they won't waste time on other HM/NIM when they got new bosses to beat. Even now, there were fewer people doing DF/DP HM NIM because they had been brought back on level and many elite guild had quit due to no new content. THIS, is why a content shouldn't always stay at such difficulty level.

 

Every day 99% of the LFG is SM GF or EV/KP SM, in 3.0 there were SM GF and NIM ops thanks.

 

So what? What's wrong for new ops' SM being easier than super old ops' HM or even NIM mode? This, is how a MMO's content works.

 

99% lol ... your deluded. By all means post up evidence of this 99% ...