Are ops/raids outdated?

[Slowpokeking]

And how is SWTOR doing financially right now? Oh right, you don't know.

 

It's still living and stand as the top 5 MMORPG.

 

Feel free to make a quick comparison between how many dungeons GW2 has compared to how many Flash Points SWTOR has. Oh and GW2 is just bringing out their first raid with 3 bosses after 3.5 years. Yeh that game is churning out the endgame. It's hard to keep up with that.

 

Do you think that flashpoints are hard to do with current ops gear? Don't compare their dungeons to our raids. Compare them to our flashpoints.

 

Yes and GW2 is free, even they are releasing new content.

 

I don't know, I haven't tried them yet in KOTFE.

[Tsillah]

And most of the old players are bored with these very very old ops, many of the raiders even left. Even the new players might not be interested at the ops(highly likely).

 

And how do you know this? Do you know all the old players and got their opinion? No you don't. So stop claiming to know what most people do or do not like.

 

If BW tells us that most people do not play the ops and if it's true that many of the raiders left, as you said yourself, then the only logical conclusion can be that the remaining old players in the current player base mostly don't give a crap about ops and therefore are not bored with them because they never play them.

[Slowpokeking]

And how do you know this? Do you know all the old players and got their opinion? No you don't. So stop claiming to know what most people do or do not like.

 

If BW tells us that most people do not play the ops and if it's true that many of the raiders left, as you said yourself, then the only logical conclusion can be that the remaining old players in the current player base mostly don't give a crap about ops and therefore are not bored with them because they never play them.

 

They don't give a crap to the ops because they are wayyyy tooo old and still hard to get a group.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[DarthDymond]

New players would mostly want to play the story coming to this old game rather than the ops content, if they really like ops they could run them at their level. Also I'm sure that level 60 RAV and TOS would still provide difficulty to level 65 players. if Bioware really care about new players' ops experience, they should release new ones rather than animate the old ops into zombies.

 

 

And most of the old players are bored with these very very old ops, many of the raiders even left. Even the new players might not be interested at the ops(highly likely).

BW 'care' enough about having max-level Ops to spend $[X] on it, but no more. Making new Ops costs more than $[X], while raising the level cap on old Ops costs $[X] or less.

 

You don't like not having new Ops and/or you don't like not being able to over-level old Ops? Fine, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have and you are far from the only person to have it. Heck, you think that this decision is going to alienate so many players that it will hurt the game? Fine as well. So by all means express those opinions, including with your wallet if you feel that's the right call.

 

But this obstinant refusal to see why BW made the decision they did, or to understand that other players with different play-style preferences may actually like this approach is kind of silly.

[Tsillah]

They don't give a crap to the ops because they are wayyyy tooo old and still hard to get a group.

 

False reasoning. That's just you projecting your opinion on other people. But what you should know is that there are people who never even do operations. I have met some of them in game. And if I believe the general opinions about this there seem to be more people than I thought who never even care about ops.

 

The idea that they are not doing ops because they got bored is just your own fantasy. It's true for some for sure but you cannot contend with any credibility that this is what happened to most people people. If not even 8% of the players set foot in ToS, as BW themselves told us, then it's clear that it has nothing to do with age. It has to do with a general lack of interest in ops as an activity.

[Tsillah]

It's still living and stand as the top 5 MMORPG.

 

So the game is healthy and your comment about the health of the game was nonsense. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Yes and GW2 is free, even they are releasing new content.

 

First of all GW2 is not free. It has no subscription. Secondly, SWTOR is also releasing new content, just not operations.

 

That's 2 lies in one sentence. Well done. Seriously...

 

I don't know, I haven't tried them yet in KOTFE.

 

Oh well then how can you make such a comparison? That's right, you can't.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tsillah

[Slowpokeking]

BW 'care' enough about having max-level Ops to spend $[X] on it, but no more. Making new Ops costs more than $[X], while raising the level cap on old Ops costs $[X] or less.

 

You don't like not having new Ops and/or you don't like not being able to over-level old Ops? Fine, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have and you are far from the only person to have it. Heck, you think that this decision is going to alienate so many players that it will hurt the game? Fine as well. So by all means express those opinions, including with your wallet if you feel that's the right call.

 

But this obstinant refusal to see why BW made the decision they did, or to understand that other players with different play-style preferences may actually like this approach is kind of silly.

Yeah, and rescale also took effort.

 

Sure they got their reason, but it's not going really well. Have you heard about people saying SWTOR's current ops is awesome?

[Tsillah]

Yeah, and rescale also took effort.

 

Sure they got their reason, but it's not going really well. Have you heard about people saying SWTOR's current ops is awesome?

 

Ehm, this is about how operations are no longer a priority in a game. How then can you use ops as the key indicator of the game's success? Clearly there are positive sounds about other things and that's the whole point.

[Slowpokeking]

So the game is healthy and your comment about the health of the game was nonsense. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

First of all GW2 is not free. It has no subscription. Secondly, SWTOR is also releasing new content, just not operations.

 

That's 2 lies in one sentence. Well done. Seriously...

 

Oh well then how can you make such a comparison? That's right, you can't.

 

It is healthy so it should follow the healthy MMO's content life cycle: Release new content rather than animate the old ones.

 

GW2 is free to play now, and there is no sub. Sub based MMO are supposed to provide more.

 

Because GW2 had no raid before that, dungeon requires 5 ppl so it's close to the 8 ops.

[Slowpokeking]

Ehm, this is about how operations are no longer a priority in a game. How then can you use ops as the key indicator of the game's success? Clearly there are positive sounds about other things and that's the whole point.

 

It's not a priority anymore, so they should left it there rather than animate zombies. If they think it's important, then they should release new ones. The current ways hurts both sides.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Tsillah]

It is healthy so it should follow the healthy MMO's content life cycle: Release new content rather than animate the old ones.

 

No it shouldn't. It should do what works for this game, not your distorted idea of what an MMO should be.

 

GW2 is free to play now, and there is no sub. Sub based MMO are supposed to provide more.

 

As far as I know only the original core game is free. The new content that comes out still requires the HoT expansion, but if that's not true feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure you cannot play this new raid without buying HoT.

 

Because GW2 had no raid before that, dungeon requires 5 ppl so it's close to the 8 ops.

 

It's closer to the 4 man Flash points and the dungeons take about the same time as flash points. So no, it's not a fair comparison. GW2 didn't have a single raid till this month and only a handful of dungeons. SWTOR has been out longer but not that much.

[Tsillah]

It's not a priority anymore, so they should left it there rather than animate zombies. If they think it's important, then they should release new ones. The current ways hurts both sides.

 

No, you need to finally wake up and smell the coffee. This thread is likely to be your swan song, except you haven't realized it yourself. You're turning in circles because you cannot admit the simple truth behind this whole charade of yours: you're bored and don't want to admit you need to quit this game and do something else.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tsillah

[Slowpokeking]

No it shouldn't. It should do what works for this game, not your distorted idea of what an MMO should be.

 

It should, this is how MMO works, you release new content or people leave.

 

 

As far as I know only the original core game is free. The new content that comes out still requires the HoT expansion, but if that's not true feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure you cannot play this new raid without buying HoT.

 

But it's not sub based, of course there are different standards based on the game. You also have to play for SWTOR and most of the xpc when they came out..

 

It's closer to the 4 man Flash points and the dungeons take about the same time as flash points. So no, it's not a fair comparison. GW2 didn't have a single raid till this month and only a handful of dungeons. SWTOR has been out longer but not that much.

Raid doesn't take too long really. GW2 wasn't focused on raid sure but it's not sub based, and even they are doing it now.

[Slowpokeking]

No, you need to finally wake up and smell the coffee. This thread is likely to be your swan song, except you haven't realized it yourself. You're turning in circles because you cannot admit the simple truth behind this whole charade of yours: you're bored and don't want to admit you need to quit this game and do something else.

Not just me, many many people complained for no new ops and many had left, I'm not the only one complaining about the current ops system in this thread.

 

This is exactly what I'm doing now, I just enjoy the story, buy some new decors and wait/unsub to wait for the next story arc.

[Tsillah]

It should, this is how MMO works, you release new content or people leave.

 

They are releasing content. Just not operations. Can you even understand this point? It's been made more than once. Also it's been a long time since we've seen a new raid and the game is still healthy, so that proves you are wrong about this.

 

 

But it's not sub based, of course there are different standards based on the game. You also have to play for SWTOR and most of the xpc when they came out..

 

So? Different business model. Don't like it? Don't play it. Go play GW2 then. Apparently this game is great according to you.

 

Raid doesn't take too long really. GW2 wasn't focused on raid sure but it's not sub based, and even they are doing it now.

 

You're just clutching at straws here. Even Anet calls the new raid a raid and not a dungeon.

[DarthDymond]

It should, this is how MMO works, you release new content or people leave.

 

Good thing they're releasing new Story chapters each month and have new war zones coming out soon. New content doesn't have to be new raids.

Edited March 15, 2016 by DarthDymond

[Slowpokeking]

They are releasing content. Just not operations. Can you even understand this point? It's been made more than once. Also it's been a long time since we've seen a new raid and the game is still healthy, so that proves you are wrong about this.

 

Then people enjoy the new content rather than the old ops. Either they left the ops there or bring up new ones would be a good idea. But they chose to rescale them.

 

The game is healthy even before they do the rescaling, what's the proof of current game's health is based on the ops rescaling?

 

 

So? Different business model. Don't like it? Don't play it. Go play GW2 then. Apparently this game is great according to you.

Yeah, other than last weekend's try I no longer run ops since KOTFE, just do the story and buy some decor to improve my SH.

 

 

You're just clutching at straws here. Even Anet calls the new raid a raid and not a dungeon.

 

Yeah because it's not sub based, we don't use the same standards on it.

[Slowpokeking]

Good thing they're releasing new Story chapters each month and have new war zones coming out soon. New content doesn't have to be new raids.

 

Yes, but people will mostly just focus on the story and new WZ.

 

Even the new players will follow this route after the old stuff had bored them.

[Max_Killjoy]

Is it just me, or have the forums seen a notable uptick in people tilting at bugbears over the last week weeks?

[IanArgent]

Is it just me, or have the forums seen a notable uptick in people tilting at bugbears over the last week weeks?

 

They'd rather be cranky in forums than play the game, I guess.

[Slowpokeking]

They'd rather be cranky in forums than play the game, I guess.

 

Because there is little new content to play, I've done the story already.

[Khevar]

There's a bit of a smokescreen going on in all this thread.

 

What OP seems to ACTUALLY want is faceroll easy ops. Augment basically goes like this:

 

1. OP first got into raiding during the 3.0 cycle when one was 10 levels over content.

2. Then 4.0 rescaled all endgame to level 65.

3. OP complains this shouldn't have happened.

4. Other people say "if they didn't rescale, there's be NO operations to run at max level"

5. OP says "then they should release new ops"

 

Few people would complain if BW released new operations. But that didn't happen, did it? There may someday be new ops. Or perhaps not. Who knows?

 

We do know that there are no development resources being put into ops at this time. The only resources spent were to rescale them to 65.

 

So what the OP REALLY wants is for the devs to either:

 

a. Rescale the old ops downward so they are faceroll easy.

b. Rearchitect the old ops so they can be done with a small handful of people.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Khevar

[Max_Killjoy]

There's a bit of a smokescreen going on in all this thread.

 

What OP seems to ACTUALLY want is faceroll easy ops. Augment basically goes like this:

 

1. OP first got into raiding during the 3.0 cycle when one was 10 levels over content.

2. Then 4.0 rescaled all endgame to level 65.

3. OP complains this shouldn't have happened.

4. Other people say "if they didn't rescale, there's be NO operations to run at max level"

5. OP says "then they should release new ops"

 

Few people would complain if BW released new operations. But that didn't happen, did it? There may someday be new ops. Or perhaps not. Who knows?

 

We do know that there are no development resources being put into ops at this time. The only resources spent were to rescale them to 65.

 

So what the OP REALLY wants is for the devs to either:

 

a. Rescale the old ops downward so they are faceroll easy.

b. Rearchitect the old ops so they can be done with a small handful of people.

 

I was starting to suspect that myself, actually -- it was the only way that the meandering and sometimes contradictory complaints from OP can be reconciled.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[SeCKSEgai]

First thing - it amazes me how many people are "defending" the current state of the game. Plenty of people felt it necessary to migrate servers as their server pops dwindled. Even on Harby we've felt population decline and that's after we've had so many refugees make their way here.

 

Since I started in March last year, I've seen one new operation (Heart of Ruin). Pre-Kotfe it was run since sm could grant 198s over the 192s. Post Kotfe priority ops and KP/EV HM make it a moot point. In fact KP/EV HM basically killed my desire to run SM GF ops since why get 216s when you can get 220s. My main is mostly in 224s and strictly from pugging it across alts. Pre-Kotfe I ran ToS/Ravs pugs almost exclusively since the other ops offered no gear and just superficial decos and mounts. Essentially it was like trading ToS/Ravs for EV/KP HM. Speaking of, the last ToS pug I joined post-kotfe enraged at COMMANDERS. The game decided to cater to the more "casual" player and it shows. The last HM FP I tried to do for cq? At least one guy was standing in stupid despite the indicator colors, and I ended up having to finish the first boss solo as a healer because everyone died - said players likely to have gotten too accustomed to their companion healers to ever take notice of even basic mechanics.

 

When I started in SWG, my favorite part was being able to just go get buffed and hunt on my own. Sure, we might group for pvp but because we weren't reliant on groups to get stuff done we could just socialize when folks were around and be productive according to our own schedules.

 

After CU I went over to WoW. Not only did it have a high sense of quality (at the time at least), it's also where I learned of the holy trinity. In small groups, content was enjoyable. When it came to 40 man raids, it was neat at first, but when you considered how many you had to organize and how little loot was actually rewarded, you were pretty much having to do a lot of work just to earn enough points to be entitled to loot. I'm pretty sure anyone who's played WoW is at least vaguely familiar with "Leeroy Jenkins".

 

From there I went to City of Heroes. I stayed quite a bit longer there, as you didn't need to run groups to get access to the best set enhancements (their equivalent of gear). But eventually the repetition got old. I left having earned a Master of Statesman's Task Force badge - which was not only the most difficult group content at the time but also required that NO DEATHS ACROSS THE TEAM from start to finish. Always completed the attempts, but there was usually that one guy....

 

Then I was off to Champions On-line for a while. Group content was lacking and they only had one real "raid" by the time I left. For people who understood the mechanics, it could actually be solo'd for some time and several patches had to come on-line. Before that it was fighting Therakial - with a standard trinity it was a cakewalk if people knew their roles, a nightmare if they didn't. Pvp is mostly what kept me there as we'd try to customize power combinations to out do each other. The community was actually really small in regards to pvp as well, probably around the same size as our GSF pop. Unlike SWTOR PvP and GSF, there was no expertise stat and you didn't need separate sets of gear or have to grind out ships so people spent more time pvping despite the small community.

 

Eventually the repetition got me there and I came to SWTOR.

 

TLDR; Repetition of the same content only lasts so long before those players move on. Kotfe is essentially repeating the same sequence for every alt, as thus far there's hardly a difference. While it was nice to finally have motivation to do heroics, I've opened well over 400 crates and have yet to complete all the available sets, despite having over 400 duplicates of those varying sets. I think I've completed just 16 of 32. When you manage to get the same piece 10 times and still have so much trouble getting parts you actually need.....

 

From a business standpoint, it's hard to develop quality content at the pace required to keep things fresh. On the other hand people will pay for aesthetics. I think there almost as many rancor skins as there are operations now.

[Slowpokeking]

There's a bit of a smokescreen going on in all this thread.

 

What OP seems to ACTUALLY want is faceroll easy ops. Augment basically goes like this:

 

1. OP first got into raiding during the 3.0 cycle when one was 10 levels over content.

2. Then 4.0 rescaled all endgame to level 65.

3. OP complains this shouldn't have happened.

4. Other people say "if they didn't rescale, there's be NO operations to run at max level"

5. OP says "then they should release new ops"

 

Few people would complain if BW released new operations. But that didn't happen, did it? There may someday be new ops. Or perhaps not. Who knows?

 

We do know that there are no development resources being put into ops at this time. The only resources spent were to rescale them to 65.

 

So what the OP REALLY wants is for the devs to either:

 

a. Rescale the old ops downward so they are faceroll easy.

b. Rearchitect the old ops so they can be done with a small handful of people.

 

Actually I want the old ops be easy faceroll because their era is long gone.