Are ops/raids outdated?

[peter_plankskull]

The problem is not with upgrading the old ops so there is more content for newer players, but the simple point that there has been very little new content added for endgame in a while. They are separate issues however. I wish EV HM was actually harder than it is now myself, but it still wouldn't be new content.

 

If they aren't going to increase the difficulty for EV and KP HM, then they should just decrease the drops. Ravagers HM is WAY more challenging than EV HM, yet both of them yield the same main hand as a reward? Twice the effort, yet the same reward :(/

[Max_Killjoy]

If they aren't going to increase the difficulty for EV and KP HM, then they should just decrease the drops. Ravagers HM is WAY more challenging than EV HM, yet both of them yield the same main hand as a reward? Twice the effort, yet the same reward :(/

 

To which I have to ask... are you playing for the fun of doing the Ops, or for the stuffs?

[Slowpokeking]

If you're a junky for the new new new, and can't entertain yourself with something you've done more than a few times already, then that's your problem.

 

It's not new new new, even Rav and ToS are 1.5 years old with one new xpc. They has already past their era long ago, the others are simply fossil now. EV, KP, EC and TFB were released bloody 3 xpc ago.

[robertthebard]

But it's not how a raid content work out. It should have its peak as a challenge but not always stay there. I like this game a lot but I don't see how is it fun to run the same old thing again for the gear, this is why I only resub everytime there is new story and get some new decor for my house.

 

It's always there to allow you to have more options to get the stuff you need for end game. Even given that "end game" is sort of an oxymoron here. This prevents only having 2 raids to run for equipment, which is a situation we have had in the past.

[Slowpokeking]

It's a simple thing. If older ops should be come easy, there should not be updated rewards for it either. Initially that happened and people basically stopped playing them. It wasn't until they gave updated rewards in the form of commendations that people played them again. But it's inherently wrong to give current endgame rewards for old ops that you can steam roll.

 

So upgrading the ops gives them the possibility to give better rewards, therefore keeping them relevant. And don't forget, just because these ops are old for some of us, I am pretty sure a lot of players are new and for them it's not old content.

 

The problem is not with upgrading the old ops so there is more content for newer players, but the simple point that there has been very little new content added for endgame in a while. They are separate issues however. I wish EV HM was actually harder than it is now myself, but it still wouldn't be new content.

 

I don't ask for improved gears, just keep some of the old decor/mount which we couldn't get long ago. It's like people farming Baron Rivendare's mount after they could solo Strathlome.

[peter_plankskull]

To which I have to ask... are you playing for the fun of doing the Ops, or for the stuffs?

 

Bit of both honestly. Yeah I like the challenge, that rush, that feel when you beat the harder mode, don't even get me started on the hardest modes, and sometimes that's enough of a reward for me. To say "I beat WAW Veteran mode" or something, but when gearing is essential to completing these and less on player skill, then I want a reward to continue and progress.

[Slowpokeking]

It's always there to allow you to have more options to get the stuff you need for end game. Even given that "end game" is sort of an oxymoron here. This prevents only having 2 raids to run for equipment, which is a situation we have had in the past.

 

I don't need such option. They could just let us be able to get the commons through dailies/heroics to exchange for gear if we don't want to run the ops, release some new FP is also a way.

[Max_Killjoy]

It's not new new new, even Rav and ToS are 1.5 years old with one new xpc. They has already past their era long ago, the others are simply fossil now. EV, KP, EC and TFB were released bloody 3 xpc ago.

 

So? Did you enjoy them, or not?

 

If someone did, then what the hell is wrong with them going back from time to time and enjoying them again, and while they're at it, getting some gear out of the deal? WHO BLOODY CARES if the content is a little older?

 

You keep saying that they're old as if we're going to just say "Oh yeah, that's why they're no fun, they're old", but not really explaining how being old makes them any less fun to do...

Edited March 14, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[TX_Angel]

But why?

 

This is 3-4 years old stuff, every raid content has a lifespan

 

Because there are no new ops.

 

If we had 5 new ops in the past year, I'd totally be with you on that... but since there aren't, this is all we have. All we're ever likely to have, sadly...

[Slowpokeking]

So? Did you enjoy them, or not?

 

If someone did, then what the hell is wrong with them going back from time to time and enjoying them again, and while they're at it, getting some gear out of the deal? WHO BLOODY CARES if the content is a little older?

 

No, because I had already run over them for months. I don't want to endure the personal drama for them as well. People get bored with doing the same old stuff, this is why a MMO must keep release new content if it wants to live on.

 

They are not "a little" older, they are very old.

[IanArgent]

But why?

 

This is 3-4 years old stuff, every raid content has a lifespan: Hard challenge for elite-Doable by many guilds-Farmable by guilds and elites-Doable by pugs-Faceroll with the level, experience and gear increase. What SWTOR did was to bound these old ops as "challenge" which pissed off both sides. Raiders didn't want to run these all over again for 3-4 years and casual players want some easy enjoyable tale, get some decor/mount/achievement which they couldn't get long ago.

 

Not everyone has been here since day 1 - some of us still have to do the ops for the first time.

[Slowpokeking]

Because there are no new ops.

 

If we had 5 new ops in the past year, I'd totally be with you on that... but since there aren't, this is all we have. All we're ever likely to have, sadly...

 

But keep the old one doesn't solve the problem. Raiders still want new ops and casual players want these old ops to be easy so they could pick up the mount/achievement/decor that had been kept away from them with a easy group. Both sides were hurt.

[Tsillah]

I don't ask for improved gears, just keep some of the old decor/mount which we couldn't get long ago. It's like people farming Baron Rivendare's mount after they could solo Strathlome.

 

That might work for you...but will it work for a lot of people? They did bring in new deco's from the end bosses in all the ops. I have no idea what you mean with this Baron Rivendare so I will imagine it's a WoW reference, but please don't assume everybody here has played WoW. I haven't.

 

People here were farming decorations from FP's some time ago...they shut that down, but then again BW doesn't know how to handle Strongholds as it is, but that's another topic.

 

Either way, the real issue is that there hasn't been anything new for endgame for quite a while and that's a problem for a number of players, I can't say how many. Also I think that operations should do something different than the usual typical boss fights, because in the end operations do get old quickly.

[TX_Angel]

No, all of these ops have been done by me for a couple of times. I don't find it's fun to run them with such effort. We. Need. New. Ops. and. Put. These. Old. Ones. to. Rest(pugs' fun).

 

At this point, that isn't likely to happen.

 

A few months ago, I put the odds of EVER getting new ops at 50/50, I now put it at 60/40 in favor of no new ops ever.

[Slowpokeking]

Not everyone has been here since day 1 - some of us still have to do the ops for the first time.

 

Then they could try to run them in the correct level(50-55-60).

[robertthebard]

I don't need such option. They could just let us be able to get the commons through dailies/heroics to exchange for gear if we don't want to run the ops, release some new FP is also a way.

 

You're not the only one playing the game, or even paying to play the game.

[Max_Killjoy]

No, because I had already run over them for months. I don't want to endure the personal drama for them as well. People get bored with doing the same old stuff, this is why a MMO must keep release new content if it wants to live on.

 

They are not "a little" older, they are very old.

 

If you regard doing Ops as "enduring" them, then why are you doing them at all? I hardly do raids or ops because I don't care for the toxicity and player-drama that comes up all too often, myself.

 

And AGAIN, we're not talking about doing the same two or three Ops for 5 years straight -- if someone actually enjoys doing the Ops, then I see no reason they couldn't rotate the old ones in randomly for some variety.

 

Just because I'd get bored eating Thai food every day doesn't mean that I'm never ever ever going back to that Thai place I really like because I ate there 3 times in 4 weeks last year.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[peter_plankskull]

You're not the only one playing the game, or even paying to play the game.

 

But he is the only one that matters.

[Lil_Fusion]

I'd say no in the general essence that they offer fun and challenge to you and a group of friends I love the group I am currently in it's low pressure but we clear content on a high level such as all the HM operations and have been working on NiM Progression which we are pretty far in as well now.

 

In the case of SWTOR yes very much it has been well over a year now closing quickly in on a year and a half since the latest content so yes it does get boring and yes they are outdated. Generally you want new content every 6-8 months for end game raiding at the least.

 

As a result not much you can do other than stop playing or find another game to play until this game starts focusing on group content again, if ever unless you want to play the same things you have done before.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Lil_Fusion

[Slowpokeking]

That might work for you...but will it work for a lot of people? They did bring in new deco's from the end bosses in all the ops. I have no idea what you mean with this Baron Rivendare so I will imagine it's a WoW reference, but please don't assume everybody here has played WoW. I haven't.

 

People here were farming decorations from FP's some time ago...they shut that down, but then again BW doesn't know how to handle Strongholds as it is, but that's another topic.

 

Either way, the real issue is that there hasn't been anything new for endgame for quite a while and that's a problem for a number of players, I can't say how many. Also I think that operations should do something different than the usual typical boss fights, because in the end operations do get old quickly.

 

Why not? I saw many people are running EV/KP/EC in SoR to get some easy comm/decor/mount. They stayed away from TFB/DF/DP HM/NIM because they were still very hard.

 

Keep the old ones as "challenge" is not solving the "No New content" problem at all, it is pissing off more people simply.

[Slowpokeking]

You're not the only one playing the game, or even paying to play the game.

 

But there are a lot of people who wanted to farm it easily, you can see them everywhere in SoR.

 

Tell me, if such way is good, why is people keep complaining, especially for new ops still?

[TX_Angel]

Tell me, if such way is good, why is people keep complaining, especially for new ops still?

 

I don't see a lot of people complaining anymore about a lack of new ops actually. I think the raiders largely got the message and left.

 

We aren't getting new ops. If you didn't get the message, fair enough, now you have.

[Slowpokeking]

If you regard doing Ops as "enduring" them, then why are you doing them at all? I hardly do raids or ops because I don't care for the toxicity and player-drama that comes up all too often, myself.

 

And AGAIN, we're not talking about doing the same two or three Ops for 5 years straight -- if someone actually enjoys doing the Ops, then I see no reason they couldn't rotate the old ones in randomly for some variety.

 

Just because I'd get bored eating Thai food every day doesn't mean that I'm never ever ever going back to that Thai place I really like because I ate there 3 times in 4 weeks last year.

 

I hadn't done any ops since KotFE at all until last weekend, just helped with

1. SnV with the 2 last bosses

2. Xeno SM

 

And I found it was super not fun to do so.

 

Enjoy? I saw almost every raider is crying for new content ever since they announced there will be no new ops in KOTFE. This is not food restaurant, this is a MMO, either you keep release new content or people leave, simple and easy.

[Slowpokeking]

I don't see a lot of people complaining anymore about a lack of new ops actually. I think the raiders largely got the message and left.

 

We aren't getting new ops. If you didn't get the message, fair enough, now you have.

 

So this is the problem, Rescaled ops is not impressing the raiders, nor is it liked by casual players.

[Tsillah]

Why not? I saw many people are running EV/KP/EC in SoR to get some easy comm/decor/mount. They stayed away from TFB/DF/DP HM/NIM because they were still very hard.

 

Why not what?

 

And be careful with words like "many people". What is many. You seem to imply knowledge about majorities of players but all you and I have are small personal experiences. I cannot know how many people do or do not do something. Neither can you. Clearly BW didn't want some of these items to be too easy to get. Perhaps there could've been different solutions but they shut it down. I guess they have their reasons, though I also would've opted for another solution.

 

Keep the old ones as "challenge" is not solving the "No New content" problem at all, it is pissing off more people simply.

 

I didn't say it was solving the issue, in fact I specifically stated they were separate issues. What it has done is create some benefits for newer players, but again that doesn't solve the other issues.

 

But as I stated earlier the problem lies more in the point that apparently operations had less and less visitors, even when they were new. I believe it was Eric Musco who stated here, after SoR was out half a year that not even 8% of players had set foot in ToS at all. I think that aside from content getting stale, the problem is that operations have less appeal to the player base than perhaps you might think. And considering that it probably takes a fair amount of resources to build such an operation the problem might simply lie in the issue that there are not enough players for operations, even when there are new ones.