"Oppressive" speech option?, as part of: make DS more attractive/authentic in KotFE

[force_fortytwo]

I actually have two thoughts which I would like to share with you guys and see if I'm the only one who thinks that way.

I'm aware that there may well be other threads about this, so if you find one please be nice and don't troll.

 

I think the one story arc of KotFE is quite entertaining, smooth and plausible - as long as you play a straightforward LS toon. I've gotten through chapters 1 through 10 with two LS V toons and had absolutely no problem always going with the heroic, noble LS choices - SoR actually posed a greater challenge to that stance than KotFE. I kept the sun reactor from blowing, rescued the refugees etc., and my toons are awesome big grand heroes, yeah.

My dark V sorcerer though... I had to forcibly choose silly, totally out-of-character options just to maintain the attunement and to prevent choosing even more OOC options which additionally interfered with the Toon's DS stance.

If it holds true that, as some posters on these forums imply, the story is thought to introduce and promote some kind of "gray" path and draw players into a pragmatic, non-ideological attitude, then the way to get there has not been found by the writers and devs. And this is mainly because of the DS options being unlogically egoistic at best, or worse: totally stupid like "I'm soooo evil, look at me killing these people just because I can". That sucked in the early phases of the SI character story and it sucks now. There is a ton of possible forms of behaviour which could be perceived as Dark Side and not outright imbecile at the same time.

Example: when stumbling upon the refugees in the swamp begging you to get them off the planet, your DS options are basically "no, and go to hell" - and optionally having HK55 execute them after upsetting Koth. How magnificent for a manipulative Sith Lord would be the option to ask Koth his opinion (which is clear) and then make him personally responsible for the refugees, ascertaining that he's aware of his obligation, and maybe posing a threat like "they mess up, you walk out the airlock with them". This would be the way a Sith keeps his ranks in check in case that merely instilling fear is not the best option. Or seemingly accepting them and then having HK55 execute them on the way back, claiming that there'd been an ambush by skytroopers. That would be gosh darn insidious, but also kinda cool in a sith's way of thinking.

 

This is what I find unlucky about the design of this plot: it totally favors light side decisions.

 

Which leads me to the other question which I thought is somehow related to it.

In chapter IX you're supposed to give two speeches to your followers, the options being "inspiring" and "oppressive". After some doubt I chose to go with the second option on my DS V Sith Sorcerer and found out that it has surprisingly little to do with oppression. It is less optimistic and emphasizes the hatred towards the adversary... And maybe there's even a slight threat to those not giving all they can to achieve the common goal. In fact, thinking of what I said before, it is actually a good speech for a DS character because it creates obligation and even threatens people who fail. But it is not really "oppressive". Maybe the wording should be changed so that players are not as hesitant to use it, as I was when I played KotFE with my Marauder. Possibly using "optimistic" and "pessimistic", or "charismatic" and "restrictive" would help players estimate a bit better which tendency they are procuring through their toon.

 

What are your thoughts about this?

[Joachimthbear]

I do think the "oppressive speech" comes across better than the description would imply. It doesn't reduce your character to a ranting megalomaniac, it's just got more... something than the other one does. But I'm not sure what that "something" should be called. Maybe a "forceful" speech, if we can get over the implied pun.

[SteveTheCynic]

Re: the oppressive speech thing...

 

This is hard. From what you say, the dark speech is appropriate for a DS character, and certainly the other speech is good for LS characters, but the labels are awful. Both are "inspiring", so that won't do as a term for either.

 

Perhaps the word order needs to be looked at. Try this:

* [LS] Appeal to their willingness to work together.

* [DS] Appeal to their willingness to destroy the enemy.

[psandak]

First my thoughts on the "Inspirational" vs "Oppressive" speeches.

 

Using the definition of oppressive as "unjustly inflicting hardship and constraint" It could be that the "oppressive" speech does do some of that - "fail *me* and face dire consequences."

 

As to your assessment of DS choices in KotFE - how are those choices any different than EVERY other DS choice in this game. 99% of the DS choices in this game are "I'm killing you for...(usually silly) reasons". And if your character is DS V then he/she is going to do that.

 

My question to you is why are you forcing yourself to maintain that artificial rating? There is only one reason now: a title. If you are using that title and really care about it then maintaining that alignment is important. If not then there is no reason to maintain that alignment.

[force_fortytwo]

As to your assessment of DS choices in KotFE - how are those choices any different than EVERY other DS choice in this game. 99% of the DS choices in this game are "I'm killing you for...(usually silly) reasons". And if your character is DS V then he/she is going to do that.

 

My question to you is why are you forcing yourself to maintain that artificial rating? There is only one reason now: a title. If you are using that title and really care about it then maintaining that alignment is important. If not then there is no reason to maintain that alignment.

 

You are partly right. A large part of the DS choices during the first part of the SI class story is made like that, which I usually found boring, cuz random killing most often is utterly useless over the story. but I at least developed an attitude for my sorc, for example that my toon tries to enslave or oblige others rather than kill them, which I found plausible for a sith trying to rise to power.

 

The Warrior story is made up in a better way, considering that logic. You can kill a lot of people - but time and again it's smarter not to do so, cuz you can also force them into doing something self-destructive which helps you with your task.

This is also the reason why I care about the options - Mayhem and Slaughter are DS options which frequently do not fit my toon's attitude, but noble selflessness is even less their attitude AND gives light side points. It's not so much about the points or the alignment - I wouldn't need any points from these options. But the smart dark options are simply missing.

 

I hope I could clarify my opinion better that way.