Darkness Tank Stuff Question

[Seratam]

Sitting at around (with Dark Ward up) 61% Shield/50% Absorb/35.5% Def. Chance/40% Dmg. Reduc.

 

Have about 78k health and while healers and I are happy, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on where I should be balancing some stuff around.

 

/Muffin Out

[Aelanis]

Sitting at around (with Dark Ward up) 61% Shield/50% Absorb/35.5% Def. Chance/40% Dmg. Reduc.

 

Have about 78k health and while healers and I are happy, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on where I should be balancing some stuff around.

 

/Muffin Out

 

If you can, trade some defense for some absorb. If you can't, trade a little shield into absorb. Shield and absorb make each other more valuable, so evening them out a little more is good, and defense and the pair make each other worse. The only problem now is that the minimum amount of defense you can run is quite high.

 

For future reference, ratings are often easier to work with, as they better show the balance of the stats you have in your gear.

[DarthObelisk]

this is also a really good for all the classes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112

[Seratam]

Yeah, sorry, wasn't able to log in when I posted.

 

Sitting at the following values

[6052 Endurance|

|2333 Defense Rating|

|1531 Absorb|

|1111 Shield]

----

[LudhaninRolgge]

If you can, trade some defense for some absorb. If you can't, trade a little shield into absorb. Shield and absorb make each other more valuable, so evening them out a little more is good, and defense and the pair make each other worse. The only problem now is that the minimum amount of defense you can run is quite high.

 

Considering that, wouldn't it be beneficial to trade Sturdiness enhancements for Bulkwark ? At least for 220.

[Gardimuer]

Considering that, wouldn't it be beneficial to trade Sturdiness enhancements for Bulkwark ? At least for 220.

 

That wouldn't give any more shield/absorb stat, so its not really useful for stat rebalancing.

 

• Bulwark
  
• Sturdiness
  

 

As you can see, he would lose 37 Defense and gain 32 Endurance per Enhancement.

 

If he really needs to beef up his health pool to survive spike damage, he can get a better exchange of Defense for Endurance by using lettered mods (i.e. Advanced Warding Mod 43B) instead of unlettered (Advanced Warding Mod 43.)

[LudhaninRolgge]

That wouldn't give any more shield/absorb stat, so its not really useful for stat rebalancing.

 

• Bulwark
  
• Sturdiness
  

 

As you can see, he would lose 37 Defense and gain 32 Endurance per Enhancement.

 

If he really needs to beef up his health pool to survive spike damage, he can get a better exchange of Defense for Endurance by using lettered mods (i.e. Advanced Warding Mod 43B) instead of unlettered (Advanced Warding Mod 43.)

 

But as it's now, sin tanks have way too much defense, am I right ? So why not trade it for more hp, even if the ratio is not optimal ? I mean, B mods are the norm right now, but why not go a bit further to have slightly more hp and have a better cushion in case of big spike (thinking of 75k HM Raptus here)

 

And off-topic, have you noticed this ?

[Gardimuer]

But as it's now, sin tanks have way too much defense, am I right ? So why not trade it for more hp, even if the ratio is not optimal ? I mean, B mods are the norm right now, but why not go a bit further to have slightly more hp and have a better cushion in case of big spike (thinking of 75k HM Raptus here)

 

And off-topic, have you noticed this ?

 

When gearing for greater mean mitigation, Defense is more valuable. When gearing to survive spike damage, Endurance is more valuable. But even then, he should be careful that he isn't trading stats at a bad ratio.

 

For the sake of conjecture, if he wanted to survive a 75k single hit he should be wearing as much 224 gear as he can. He could get 83,409 HP by wearing mostly 224s with 220 B mods and a DPS relic. (DPS relics have Endurance and are still a better trade ratio than the Enhancements.) If that isn't enough of a cushion for his healers, he could use an Earpiece and Implants from the vendor instead of token (i.e. Exarch Steadfast MK-4 vs Ultimate Exarch Bastion Device). Even that would be a better ratio than trading 220 with 224 Enhancements. With all 224 except for 220 B mods, 220 vendor Earpiece and Implant, and a DPS relic he would sit at 86,314 HP. I haven't tried NiM Raptus, but I imagine a 10k HP buffer should be enough with the possibility of tank swapping/popping a defensive cooldown to give the healers time to recoup.

 

Regarding the Advanced Bulwark Enhancement 44, as far as I know that doesn't exist in-game. If it does exist, I'd like to know where to find it.

[LudhaninRolgge]

When gearing for greater mean mitigation, Defense is more valuable. When gearing to survive spike damage, Endurance is more valuable. But even then, he should be careful that he isn't trading stats at a bad ratio.

 

For the sake of conjecture, if he wanted to survive a 75k single hit he should be wearing as much 224 gear as he can. He could get 83,409 HP by wearing mostly 224s with 220 B mods and a DPS relic. (DPS relics have Endurance and are still a better trade ratio than the Enhancements.) If that isn't enough of a cushion for his healers, he could use an Earpiece and Implants from the vendor instead of token (i.e. Exarch Steadfast MK-4 vs Ultimate Exarch Bastion Device). Even that would be a better ratio than trading 220 with 224 Enhancements. With all 224 except for 220 B mods, 220 vendor Earpiece and Implant, and a DPS relic he would sit at 86,314 HP. I haven't tried NiM Raptus, but I imagine a 10k HP buffer should be enough with the possibility of tank swapping/popping a defensive cooldown to give the healers time to recoup.

 

Regarding the Advanced Bulwark Enhancement 44, as far as I know that doesn't exist in-game. If it does exist, I'd like to know where to find it.

 

Maybe you're right. It doesn't seem natural to me to have that much defense with a sin, but that's maybe just me. Regarding the relics, wouldn't be the new 220 crafted relics BiS since they give endurance ?

 

And for the enhancement, I don't know either, but it seems to be somewhere in the database.

[Aelanis]

Maybe you're right. It doesn't seem natural to me to have that much defense with a sin, but that's maybe just me. Regarding the relics, wouldn't be the new 220 crafted relics BiS since they give endurance ?

 

And for the enhancement, I don't know either, but it seems to be somewhere in the database.

 

The enhancements are unobtainable. As for the relics, crafted vs. non-crafted, if you need the extra hit points, I suppose there are worse trades, but just remember that you're now trading away shield rating on the operation token relics.

[Aelanis]

Yeah, sorry, wasn't able to log in when I posted.

 

Sitting at the following values

[6052 Endurance|

|2333 Defense Rating|

|1531 Absorb|

|1111 Shield]

----

 

Hmm. They aren't awful, and I wouldn't actually trade much (if any) shield away with that balance. I would, however work on upgrading your gear, as there seems to be a little room for improvement.

[LudhaninRolgge]

The enhancements are unobtainable. As for the relics, crafted vs. non-crafted, if you need the extra hit points, I suppose there are worse trades, but just remember that you're now trading away shield rating on the operation token relics.

 

I forgot that token relics now give shield aswell. But am I correct that the defense rating we're working with are too much for sins ?

[Gardimuer]

Maybe you're right. It doesn't seem natural to me to have that much defense with a sin, but that's maybe just me. Regarding the relics, wouldn't be the new 220 crafted relics BiS since they give endurance ?

 

And for the enhancement, I don't know either, but it seems to be somewhere in the database.

 

The 220 crafted relics give less endurance than the 224 DPS token versions. (Ultimate Exarch vs 220 crafted)

 

I forgot that token relics now give shield aswell. But am I correct that the defense rating we're working with are too much for sins ?

 

If we could trade Defense for shield or absorb that would be true. Since we can't, it's better to keep the Defense. More mitigation stat will always be better than no mitigation stat if you already have enough HP to survive spikes.

 

Defense would only be bad if you were fighting a boss that didn't do any melee/ranged attacks. Currently there aren't any bosses like that, so having more Defense stat will always increase your mean mitigation.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Gardimuer

[Seratam]

Hmm. They aren't awful, and I wouldn't actually trade much (if any) shield away with that balance. I would, however work on upgrading your gear, as there seems to be a little room for improvement.

 

Thanks, yeah, I'm using the 146 2pc for the 5% shield bonus and I still have two 216 pieces on.

[Gardimuer]

Thanks, yeah, I'm using the 146 2pc for the 5% shield bonus and I still have two 216 pieces on.

 

o.O Did you mean 186? I don't think the loss of armor rating in 146 would be worth 5% more shield chance.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Gardimuer

[Aelanis]

Thanks, yeah, I'm using the 146 2pc for the 5% shield bonus and I still have two 216 pieces on.

I really hope that 146 is a typo. That's not a good trade. 5% shield is great and all, but that's a ton of DR to lose, and in a meta where the most deadly stuff is spike damage, trading DR for shield isn't a good idea.

[Seratam]

I really hope that 146 is a typo. That's not a good trade. 5% shield is great and all, but that's a ton of DR to lose, and in a meta where the most deadly stuff is spike damage, trading DR for shield isn't a good idea.

 

The 146 2pc and the 220/224 armoring have a DR difference of just about 1.5%. I swap in the higher level armorings for bosses that actually hurt, but keep the 146s for basically everything else.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Seratam

[LudhaninRolgge]

If we could trade Defense for shield or absorb that would be true. Since we can't, it's better to keep the Defense. More mitigation stat will always be better than no mitigation stat if you already have enough HP to survive spikes.

 

Defense would only be bad if you were fighting a boss that didn't do any melee/ranged attacks. Currently there aren't any bosses like that, so having more Defense stat will always increase your mean mitigation.

 

I've never looked at it this way. Thanks for making me less stupid ^^

[KeyboardNinja]

Defense would only be bad if you were fighting a boss that didn't do any melee/ranged attacks. Currently there aren't any bosses like that, so having more Defense stat will always increase your mean mitigation.

 

Soa does a single melee attack if you get close to him on the third floor, but its coefficient has been bugged for four years and does almost zero damage. He is sort of infamous as a purely force/tech boss.

 

If you run a zero-swap strategy on Firebrand and Stormcaller, the Stormcaller tank will never take any melee/ranged damage (though they will take kinetic/energy damage from the barrage while kiting spires). The Sunder tank in Cartel Warlords will take no melee damage, and the only ranged damage they will receive will be from Horic cleaves or from Horic/Sano random single-target attacks (and sane Sunder kite patterns are well out of Horic's singlet-target range). Brontes has astonishingly little melee/ranged damage (only sources I can think of are p1 tentacles, kephess, droids and Fire and Forget which shouldn't be on the tanks anyway).

 

Broadly speaking though, you're absolutely right. :-) I'm just picking nits because it's fun. Trading away some mitigation for no mitigation is never the right choice, even if the some mitigation is marginal.

[Aelanis]

Soa does a single melee attack if you get close to him on the third floor, but its coefficient has been bugged for four years and does almost zero damage. He is sort of infamous as a purely force/tech boss.

 

If you run a zero-swap strategy on Firebrand and Stormcaller, the Stormcaller tank will never take any melee/ranged damage (though they will take kinetic/energy damage from the barrage while kiting spires). The Sunder tank in Cartel Warlords will take no melee damage, and the only ranged damage they will receive will be from Horic cleaves or from Horic/Sano random single-target attacks (and sane Sunder kite patterns are well out of Horic's singlet-target range). Brontes has astonishingly little melee/ranged damage (only sources I can think of are p1 tentacles, kephess, droids and Fire and Forget which shouldn't be on the tanks anyway).

 

Broadly speaking though, you're absolutely right. :-) I'm just picking nits because it's fun. Trading away some mitigation for no mitigation is never the right choice, even if the some mitigation is marginal.

 

Wait, Soa has a melee attack?

[KeyboardNinja]

Wait, Soa has a melee attack?

 

Yep! I noticed it in my logs years ago, back when Soa was actually relevant (sort of). If memory serves, it is actually called "Melee". It only happens on the third floor, and only when he's on his knees, and only when you're in melee range (which isn't common since you're mostly kiting him to the next pylon at that exact point).

[cxten]

If you run a zero-swap strategy on Firebrand and Stormcaller, the Stormcaller tank will never take any melee/ranged damage (though they will take kinetic/energy damage from the barrage while kiting spires). The Sunder tank in Cartel Warlords will take no melee damage, and the only ranged damage they will receive will be from Horic cleaves or from Horic/Sano random single-target attacks (and sane Sunder kite patterns are well out of Horic's singlet-target range). Brontes has astonishingly little melee/ranged damage (only sources I can think of are p1 tentacles, kephess, droids and Fire and Forget which shouldn't be on the tanks anyway).

 

So on those fights, especially Tanks and Brontes, might running power mods be desirable to help out on dps?

[Aelanis]

So on those fights, especially Tanks and Brontes, might running power mods be desirable to help out on dps?

 

No, B Mods will give you health, which will at least buy you some time before you die.

[cxten]

No, B Mods will give you health, which will at least buy you some time before you die.

 

Sure. I guess also on Brontes the tanks don't get to help dps her in the burn phase much, so there'd be no point. Might be a useful 300ish dps pickup on Tanks if you're having trouble with the dps check? Presumably you use mk-4 ear/implant and high end enhancements if defense really isn't being used so the ~3.5k health lost (going from 9 220B defense mods to 9 224 power mods is -315 end +252 mas +1152 pow -891 def) isn't that bad.

Edited February 29, 2016 by cxten

[LudhaninRolgge]

Presumably you use mk-4 ear/implant and high end enhancements if defense really isn't being used so the ~3.5k health lost (going from 9 220B defense mods to 9 224 power mods is -315 end +252 mas +1152 pow -891 def) isn't that bad.

 

I think MK-2 are better since you have more absorption and shield.