Improving my dps as dirty fighting gunslinger

[Llama-Eight]

Quickdraw do slightly more damage (50-100 dmg/activation) than dirty blast.

 

You got the chance of higher crit-luck with quickdraw.

 

Fine, so my back-of-a-***-packet calculation was probably off on the mitigation element (and to be fair, I have no idea how much a boss would mitigate weapon damage compared to internal).

[ThomasCool]

a) when hemo blast is up -> dirty blast > QD (unless you're capping energy)

b) the free filler will move around since your strongest free filler is hightail it

[Kredox]

Yea, there are a lot more important things to know, but it is necessary to learn it step by step. Edited February 20, 2016 by Kredox

[Kredox]

Here is an 2 ws Rotation example on a dummy.

 

[ArenCordial]

- Vital shot

- Shrap bomb

- Hem. Blast

- wounding shots

- dirty blast

- Filler

- Speedshot

- wounding shots

- Filler

 

the filler are dirty blast (db) / Quickdraw (qd) / flurry bolts

 

Just start safe and use on every filler spot flurry bolts. Than start learning when you're able to put in db or qd. Normally you want to use db under hem shot and qd outside or when you need to move.

 

I just picked up my GS again after a long time and I've been doing the 2 WS rotation since I seem to have an easier time with mechanics thanks to this. I was wondering for the first filler while Hemo is up do you have certain energy levels where you think ok above this level DB + DB or if I'm below this level DB + QD or RS?

Edited February 27, 2016 by ArenCordial

[Llama-Eight]

Here is an 2 ws Rotation example on a dummy.

 

 

When the hemo blast buff is up, you're doing 2x dirty blast then speed shot, is that so it lines up better with the cooldown of wounding shots? Compared to 3x dirty blast (which would get additional damage from the hemo blast buff)?

[ThomasCool]

2x DB + SS is 50 energy over 6s (- alacrity)

3X DB is 45 energy over 4.5s

basically, it depends where your energy is at. and what you plan to do with that last GCD

T.

[Shwarzchild]

I was just about to post something similar to the OPs question in a new thread, but this is a better place to put it. Along the same lines I'm looking for any tips I can get to get better. My group is in nim, and stuck on the tanks mainly because my dps is too low (really sucks knowing you are the cause of the failed attempt, but hey better to know than not). So I'm looking for any help I can get to pinpoint any mistakes in my rotation first and foremost, and then any tips on how to efficiently weave the rotation through the nim mechanics of specifically firebrand and storm.

 

Below is the link to my most recent parse. Gear wise: 224 outside of implants and relics which are still 220. I've geared a bit heavier for crit since I bounce back and forth between sharpshooter and dirty fighting so I'm at 1231 crit, 920 alac, 701 accuracy, 2906 power.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/143755

[Steefr]

Hey, I'll take a look at your parse later or tmw. But it might be helpfull to tell us a bout the stormcaller/firebrand encounter. What's the dps comp ? Who goes on what tank ? How do you handle adds ? and how far are you from beating enrage ?

[Shwarzchild]

Hey, I'll take a look at your parse later or tmw. But it might be helpfull to tell us a bout the stormcaller/firebrand encounter. What's the dps comp ? Who goes on what tank ? How do you handle adds ? and how far are you from beating enrage ?

 

Hey Steefr

 

Thanks. So the dps comp is kind of in flux since one of our members is away on work. But, overall, the comp is generally 2 ranged, 2 melee (it's 2 combat sents/ 2 gunslingers). In the two weeks where our guy was traveling we had a mando and another sent in to help out. Our best pull was last night with the 3 combat sents, and me. We hit enrage with Stormcaller at 4 percent, and Firebrand at 17. Our strat was having 3 dps, 1 healer on storm caller since we were getting 2 double destruction casts per shield phase. So I'd start out popping fly by on storm caller, and on the run in dot him up, hemm blast, wounding, then I'd switch to firebrand and dot him up and just get going until the second doubel destruction and I'd move and take it, and move back. When that would happen I'd either just stop dps, go take it and move back if I was at say a channeled or an activation ability spot in the rotation (my logic was id rather sacrifice the 1-2 gcds to get the mechanic right instead of trying to push it and then get caught with an attack from storm that would one shot me). But, if I was at dot app or going into quick draws I'd toss those out on fire, take the double, then back to position.

 

For the add phase: I'd reapply my dots to fire, and roll off stormcaller to just try to get something extra out there. With stormcaller only having 2 adds, I'd vital shot, hemm, wounding the first add, then switch off him to the second where i'd vital, quick dirty blast dirty blast, and pop him out of the shield and finish him off with wounding or another two dbs or something similar in fashion. on the way back to the tanks it's dot up stormcaller, hemm, up on tank, wounding. refocus fire, dot him up and continue rotation as best as I can.

 

Two sentinels were at 6.2 (exclusively on firebrand) and 6k (placed on storm for help with double d). The third was at 5.2 (placed on storm for double d help). I was at 4.586 (we had another pull where I was at 5.1 but that was like a 3:04 pull so I don't count that too heavily). When our other slinger comes back we lose the 6.2 dps value, and it gets replaced with about 5.3 or so from another DF slinger, and the other sentinal who was at 5.2 generally is at 5.8. Obviously I'm the low one on the pole by a pretty wide margin. I guess on Zorn and Toth I wasn't too bad (generally 4.8-5.2 depending on if I get that yellow circle..still low but I'm pretty confident I'm weaving the rotation around the red circles and yellow circle better each pull), and my highest was Grob Thok at 5.6.

 

What annoys me about the tanks fight is I'll be hitting a high of 5.7 and some change early on (about 30 seconds to start the fight) then ill sit about at 5.3 until the first shield phase. And, then it just drops and I can't recover it. I'm probably losing up to 1k in dps on each transition. So first shield phase I drop to about 4.5 then get back up to about 4.9, then second I drop to like 4.3, get back up to about 4.8 and change, then drop, and similarly for any subsequent shield phase. But, I don't really know how else to treat those transitions.

 

We are killing those adds before defensive systems ends with plenty of spare time (about 2-3 seconds before we head back on the tanks). Overall I did about 1.831 million in damage where 1.3 and some change of that went on firebrand. When the other slinger comes back, I'm switching back to being on firebrand the whole time which could help (but doesn't really fix the long term issue of me being the low man on the totem pole).

 

I could always switch back to sharpshooter and do about 4.9 -5.1 but that's not going to change the issue either. DF has a higher ceiling on more fights now anyway. And another caveat was during the tanks I wasn't trying to do three dirty blasts per DB block as I was attempting in the parse. I was doing db db flurry of bolts. So that's been my first big change that I'll take into fight next week. I can't imagine that one change will truly make up the gigantic gap I am experiencing though.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[ThomasCool]

couple of questions and hints

a) are you have a combat sent on each tank so both sides get an armor debuff? (a couple of % easy)

b) remember the slinger knockback does not do damage... careful use of it under the shield can group mobs up easily

c) double dot double dot double dot.... you can dot both storm and firebrand for a relatively large amount of extra damage

d) pre dot... once the adds are down dot up the bosses before jumping back on

Hope that helps

T.

[Shwarzchild]

couple of questions and hints

a) are you have a combat sent on each tank so both sides get an armor debuff? (a couple of % easy)

b) remember the slinger knockback does not do damage... careful use of it under the shield can group mobs up easily

c) double dot double dot double dot.... you can dot both storm and firebrand for a relatively large amount of extra damage

d) pre dot... once the adds are down dot up the bosses before jumping back on

Hope that helps

T.

 

Awesome thanks for the tips. Last night we had a sent on each tank so we did get that armor debuff funsies. Usually we don't though. The knockback I only use when the bomb add is under 30 percent so we can finish him fast. Double dot is something I need to definitely incorporate. Dots on the closest tank to me when we're under the shield is something I've been doin. I'll give it a go on our next session and if it corrects ill credit you guys!

[Kredox]

Actual we are trying this boss too.

 

I double dot too, and it is really nice to knock back the adds out of the shield. Than both adds could be dotted and it is possible to aoe them or do your normal single target rotation.

 

When iam moving back from the shield, I usually redot the bosses when iam out of my rotation. Thus works very well and in the first night of raiding I increased my dps in the first phase (left tank over 15%) to about 5 - 6k dps (depending how fail I knock back the adds) from max 5k.

 

But the dps from our melees are ridiculous higher. Normally around 6,5k dps.

 

The problem with gunslinger/ ranges are the movement back on the tanks and the adds. You need time to move directly to the adds to make a good knock back. This is the reason why the damage of melees are much higher. It depends on the jump and single target non-spread damage.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Kredox

[Kredox]

Below is the link to my most recent parse. Gear wise: 224 outside of implants and relics which are still 220. I've geared a bit heavier for crit since I bounce back and forth between sharpshooter and dirty fighting so I'm at 1231 crit, 920 alac, 701 accuracy, 2906 power.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/143755

 

Your rotation isn't really good. You got too high ability usages on the important skills. Try to focus your rotation on the direct use of your skills, especially wounding shot, DoTs and hem shot. They should always be used in cool down, which isn't a big problem on the dummy. On the tanks is the 3 ws nice because of the double dot window. In regular you should try to learn the 2 ws rotation for learning the important things in bossfights.

 

Here is an example by me on the dummy. Not perfect but you should see the difference between my ability usages and yours.

 

Don't care about the dps and damage of the skills when you're compare your parses to other ones.

 

Try to compare ability usages and activations of skills. On the dirty fighter tree you got a lot random action and you could be blended by the important things when you don't know how to identify them.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/135619/0

Edited March 4, 2016 by Kredox

[Shwarzchild]

Your rotation isn't really good. You got too high ability usages on the important skills. Try to focus your rotation on the direct use of your skills, especially wounding shot, DoTs and hem shot. They should always be used in cool down, which isn't a big problem on the dummy. On the tanks is the 3 ws nice because of the double dot window. In regular you should try to learn the 2 ws rotation for learning the important things in bossfights.

 

Here is an example by me on the dummy. Not perfect but you should see the difference between my ability usages and yours.

 

Don't care about the dps and damage of the skills when you're compare your parses to other ones.

 

Try to compare ability usages and activations of skills. On the dirty fighter tree you got a lot random action and you could be blended by the important things when you don't know how to identify them.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/135619/0

 

I'm not entirely sure I'm following you with this post. There are a few differences rotationally from yours to mine, but from a rotational sense I'm not sure I see where I am so different. A big one is that I went more conservative with fillers in some cases over using more quickdraws. Overall we're using our abilities to account for the same distributions, no? The biggest difference is your APM being significantly higher than mine allowing you to pull off more moves. So I need to speed up somehow? When you say i need to use things on cool down, I do that currently. When in dot application if hem blast is going to come off cd I've been trying to insert the quickdraw as my filler instead of flurry of bolts (I could use dirty blast more as a filler I guess instead of the flurry?) and hit hemm then wounding. Outside of that, where am I not using things correctly? I just need to see it I guess to understand what you're saying.

 

Otherwise vital shot is accounting for 20.1 percent of the time to my 22 percent.

Vital shot 18.9 to my 19.1

17.2 for wounding 16.6 for my wounding

13.7 dirty to my 13.4 dirty

Quickdraw 11.6 to my QD at 8.2

8.7 hemm blast to my 8.8

6.9 to 6.9 speed shot

 

The quickdraw usage for me should come up for me and that at least highlights to me I need to be more aggressive with it instead of fear for energy management by using flurry of bolts more. The wounding shots difference can be explained by the 2 percent increase in your crit rate compared to mine I would believe? I know you'res saying not to look at damage, but isn't the breakdown somewhat important in a sense as well for comparison?

 

When I look at your rotation compared to mine it's similar outside of the very end kill. Is that what you're referring to? Otherwise rotationally we are very similar with the primary differences I can find is that you're faster than me in the APM department, and you use quickdraw more as a filler where I used flurry of bolts. Can you give me a better idea of where I'm going wrong from a rotation sense? I'm not sure I follow your comment of what's important in boss fights. Can you elaborate so I can figure out what you mean?

 

I'm just confused because you say my rotation isn't good but block wise ours are extremely similar so I'm just not following what you're getting at unless you mean to tell me I'm too slow? What am I missing here?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[Steefr]

From what i've seen looking at a number of gunslinger (which is hard for this sniper purist ) parses, it does seem like your apm should be higher on that parse. The increased use of roll+flurry of bolt should result in a higher apm compared to parses that are luckier in crit energy and don't have to use fillers that often, but it doesn't in your case.

 

Try setting the action que to 1second or smth close, also for parsing it can be benefical to move your ship to a more lowly populated area instead of the fleet.

 

As for the stormbrand/firecaller encounter: 2 gunslingers will be hard. We killed it with 2 pt's 1 merc and 1 sniper (myself) and while i'm usually close to top atleast, for the tanks i was always lowest dps. A good merc can reach 5,8-6K easily and same with pt's for that entire fight, comparatively i'd be somewhere between 5,4-5,7 max. Seeing as you need 4 dps at or above 5,6 for that fight to have a chance of beating enrage, 2 gunslingers will be tricky.

 

Also don't bother going sharpshooter, dirty fighting should and will beat that dps.

 

So yeah multidotting works great. Also i usually keep dpsing the tanks untill i get pushed into the adds (i move accordingly to where they spawn). When adds die quick enough and tanks are still taking reduced dmg, i put my dots on the ones i can reach + orbital so i can go straight into my "burst". Once you've reached the last add phase, then it's essentially a longer sustained phase and there your dps can climb again. Even if you hit enrage, you can survive about 10 seconds with good tanks and proper use of cooldowns.

 

That's all i got atm but brain still waking up so might add more later

[Kredox]

Sorry for the incomplete review.

 

First you need to look at parsely under ability usages in Avg time. There you could see the average usages of skills.

 

Skills

 

WS: 8.793 s, mine 8.298 s

VS: 26.273 s, mine 24.879 s

SB: 26.285 s, mine 24.713 s

Hem: 18.325 s, mine 16.591 s

DB and QD depends on energy regain - so it is random.

 

Yeah you're right in the point, that you're to slow. Play hard and spam your keys. There are a lot more people who play better and harder on CD and got a bigger Avg, but mine is totally sufficient. Also try don't use DB to less because of your bonus by the set.

 

It is important to know, that the Avg time depends on the alacrity, but our stats are almost identical. So this isn't the point in your fall.

 

The max activation time of your skills are really big too. There was maybe a big lag or an mistake by you.

 

Then you're playing

 

Hem - WS - VS - SB - FLURRY - QD

I would run

Hem - WS - VS - SB - DB - FLURRY

for extra damage with Hem shot.

 

HEM - WS - DB - DB - DB - FLURRY

I would play, especially in boss fights with movement, so you get more time to do positioning.

 

HEM - WS - DB - DB - FLURRY - QD

 

Hope it is better. When not, I will answer more of your questions.

[Shwarzchild]

Sorry for the incomplete review.

 

First you need to look at parsely under ability usages in Avg time. There you could see the average usages of skills.

 

Skills

 

WS: 8.793 s, mine 8.298 s

VS: 26.273 s, mine 24.879 s

SB: 26.285 s, mine 24.713 s

Hem: 18.325 s, mine 16.591 s

DB and QD depends on energy regain - so it is random.

 

Yeah you're right in the point, that you're to slow. Play hard and spam your keys. There are a lot more people who play better and harder on CD and got a bigger Avg, but mine is totally sufficient. Also try don't use DB to less because of your bonus by the set.

 

It is important to know, that the Avg time depends on the alacrity, but our stats are almost identical. So this isn't the point in your fall.

 

The max activation time of your skills are really big too. There was maybe a big lag or an mistake by you.

 

Then you're playing

 

Hem - WS - VS - SB - FLURRY - QD

I would run

Hem - WS - VS - SB - DB - FLURRY

for extra damage with Hem shot.

 

HEM - WS - DB - DB - DB - FLURRY

I would play, especially in boss fights with movement, so you get more time to do positioning.

 

HEM - WS - DB - DB - FLURRY - QD

 

Hope it is better. When not, I will answer more of your questions.

 

definitely, thank you!

[Kredox]

And again - don't compare damage, compare the times. There you can see how good or bad you're doing. Damage is secondary when you want to learn rotations or new skill trees. That's the point with every class, rotation or trees, not just in this case.

[Kredox]

Hem - WS - VS - SB - FLURRY - QD

 

This is good too when you got a fight with many repositioning.

[Kredox]

But overall you doing good.

 

The biggest point with high dps is your experience in boss fights. We can tell you our tricks or experience, but in the last you need to get it by your own. That's the little miracle with people who deal amazing instead of high dps when you're a good player.

[Shwarzchild]

But overall you doing good.

 

The biggest point with high dps is your experience in boss fights. We can tell you our tricks or experience, but in the last you need to get it by your own. That's the little miracle with people who deal amazing instead of high dps when you're a good player.

 

I was able to get my APM up to around 37.2-37.5 but I'm having a real issue speeding up any further. The new parse high is 6.557.

Yeah, that's extremely true, and ultimately the mountiain im trying to climb in short order. I've been maining a healer for the last 3 years so this is quite the change. It's definitely fun, but just a totally different world. I have no idea why people think dpsing is the easiest thing to do. Definitely definitely definitely the hardest. Anyway, back on target.

 

Thanks to you, and thanks the other poster for the tips, and help.

[Shwarzchild]

And again - don't compare damage, compare the times. There you can see how good or bad you're doing. Damage is secondary when you want to learn rotations or new skill trees. That's the point with every class, rotation or trees, not just in this case.

 

Definitely something I'm now doing since I wasn't before. Great advice.

 

EDIT: I'm looking at times, but I'm not entirely sure I'm understanding what I'm looking at. Could you break this stuff down a little so I understand. What do these times refer to? Activation time I guess? Lower averages better? And, I want to be also looking at the gap between avg and max time, and attempt to close it?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[Kredox]

It's not so hard.

 

First look at your cool down of your skills in game. Than look at your average time of use.

 

E.g.

 

When you got an cool down of wounding shots of 8.2 s and your average activation time is 8.9 s. You should see, that you waste anywhere 0.7 s. That's really near half of an gcd, which means a half skill. When you count every skills like that, you should get a big bunch of time which are used for none.

 

That means easy said =

 

The lower the gap between real cool down and the Avg time, the better is the usage of the skill.

 

Min/Max activation time just means the time you got between your skill. One time you've made it to get the lowest CD of maybe 8.2 s and in another window you just made it in 10.2 s, that means, you wasted anywhere your normal 0.7 s waste plus maybe a wrong skill. So you used your skill one gcd/ skill to late. That would be my conclusion.

[Shwarzchild]

It's not so hard.

 

First look at your cool down of your skills in game. Than look at your average time of use.

 

E.g.

 

When you got an cool down of wounding shots of 8.2 s and your average activation time is 8.9 s. You should see, that you waste anywhere 0.7 s. That's really near half of an gcd, which means a half skill. When you count every skills like that, you should get a big bunch of time which are used for none.

 

That means easy said =

 

The lower the gap between real cool down and the Avg time, the better is the usage of the skill.

 

Min/Max activation time just means the time you got between your skill. One time you've made it to get the lowest CD of maybe 8.2 s and in another window you just made it in 10.2 s, that means, you wasted anywhere your normal 0.7 s waste plus maybe a wrong skill. So you used your skill one gcd/ skill to late. That would be my conclusion.

 

Awesome, that clears it up. Thanks again.