BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Now I know on paper it probably sounded like a good Idea...but lets be honest... TACTICAL FLASHPOINTS ARE A MESS!!!I Ever since 4.0 dropped, I haven't ran a single one. Why, you may ask? Because...at this point in time, "Tactical" Flashpoints (A watered down, Dumb down version of the leveling based flashpoints) are now allowing people of level 10-65 too run together. The Biggest problem with this is the fact that you have a lot newcomers, or people who are just starting out, running these flashpoints, with mechanics and proper rotations too complete. People who are just starting out, Do now have the knowledge, skill level or tools, they need too complete something like Koan or Lost Island....BOLSTER/HEALING STATIONS OR NOT!. For example...If I am a level 20 Dps or Tank, be it a gaurdian, commanado, sorcerer, whatever. The random group tactical I got is Lost Island. Even if I have Full knowledge of the fight. I simply do not have the gear nor the tools needed for that flashpoint.. I don't have enough abilities too give me a proper rotation if I am a dps or a healer. I don't have enough defensive cooldowns or taunts too properly tank the boss. It's even worst when you are just starting out playing the game or trying a new class for the first time when you have no idea what you are doing... Now I'm not saying "SCREW YOUR IDEAS BIOWARE!! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING". I get that with this new system it limits the amount of people sitting and waiting in queue. Which I get was a problem (if you are a dps..Ha). But by doing this and removing the leveling based system of flashpoints we had before. You created a HUGE learning curve for new players and a overall experience that is not fun, at all in general. Before 4.0 the flashpoints, all had a set leveling system: Black Talon 10 - 16, Hammer Station 17 -21 , Athiss level 22 - 27, and etc. By having this system in place, you not only helped players, gain a nice experience boost, but you also help them gain an understanding of the basics of group content and raiding. Flashpoins ( At one point) were like 4 man operations ( especially Lost Island, amIrite?) That could teach someone how much fun it can be. And you know what? IT WAS! IT WAS TONS OF FUN! Especially when leveling Flashpoints always felt like Side Stories too a players main storyline, that they could enjoy with other players, all the while learning new things about there class and in the end, be rewarded with some sweet orange gear they got from defeating the boss of said flashpoint! My point is...it was great and this system needs too return. Dumbing down the flashpoints even more or giving ever single flashpint a single player mode.....(in an MMO mind you which is sadly becoming more and more a single player game...) does not solve the problem. Keep the new system in place...that fine. I think its a great way for people too get too play all the content they want, without having too wait too be certain level too do it. But with that said the old leveling system with flashpoints needs too return for the sake of: 1: FUN!!!!! 2: Teaching new players about raiding mechanics 3: Teaching them about there class in general 4: How too work better in a group 5: Making it feel like real side story content again. 6: Sweet Flashpoint based Orange and Blue Gear Rewards!!!! So PLEASE Devs. I ask you too take this into consideration for future updates... Thank you Edited February 2, 2016 by BlakeCloudrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLynkes Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) How do you know they are a mess if you "haven't ran a single one?" I do agree, to an extent, though. I like the idea of there being a tactical option for all the FPs. But I don't get why they had to get rid of the old story modes to do it. What would be so wrong with having Solo/Tactical/Story Mode/Hard Mode as the tiers? More choice is good, right? Edited February 2, 2016 by PLynkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 How do you know they are a mess if you "haven't ran a single one?" I do agree, to an extent, though. I like the idea of there being a tactical option for all the FPs. But I don't get why they had to get rid of the old story modes to do it. What would be so wrong with having Solo/Tactical/Story Mode/Hard Mode as the tiers? Main reason I haven't, is because I saw this coming. And based of the experience of those in the guild and other topics, That I've read related too what I just posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stimuluspack Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not all of them are bad with a low lvl player. The worse one i have gotten and I get it like once a day with a low lvl healer or no healer at all is Bloodhunt. The bosses in the beginning are easy but when you get to the husband and wife boss it tends to fall apart. For one if you get a grp thats all dps and you try to use the kolto station to heal depending on which one is down it becomes a pain. If the husband is down when some one runs to the station they usually get kicked off the platform. These stations should have been atleast in the middle of the arena. Now if you get lucky and get a healer good luck if they arn't 65 cuz that boost up doesnt work if you are taking a lot of damage they can not keep up to heal you and they to need to run around hitting the kolto nodes just to keep the grp alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not all of them are bad with a low lvl player. The worse one i have gotten and I get it like once a day with a low lvl healer or no healer at all is Bloodhunt. The bosses in the beginning are easy but when you get to the husband and wife boss it tends to fall apart. For one if you get a grp thats all dps and you try to use the kolto station to heal depending on which one is down it becomes a pain. If the husband is down when some one runs to the station they usually get kicked off the platform. These stations should have been atleast in the middle of the arena. Now if you get lucky and get a healer good luck if they arn't 65 cuz that boost up doesnt work if you are taking a lot of damage they can not keep up to heal you and they to need to run around hitting the kolto nodes just to keep the grp alive. You make a goodpoint, But I'm talking mainly about a players skill lvl and how much of a learning curve it can be. espeically too new players. My guildy told me he had a lvl 15 sorcerer running Mando Raiders and he was still using his melee attack...LOL. The boss enraged 3 times and so did everyone else in the group lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooks Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I concur; I don't run these anymore. Last one I tried was a False Emperor. After too many wipes and replacements just left at HK after group wiped twice on him. Had maybe 7 cycle through and leave group. No healers no tanks. The current bracket system is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not all of them are bad with a low lvl player. The worse one i have gotten and I get it like once a day with a low lvl healer or no healer at all is Bloodhunt. The bosses in the beginning are easy but when you get to the husband and wife boss it tends to fall apart. For one if you get a grp thats all dps and you try to use the kolto station to heal depending on which one is down it becomes a pain. If the husband is down when some one runs to the station they usually get kicked off the platform. These stations should have been atleast in the middle of the arena. Now if you get lucky and get a healer good luck if they arn't 65 cuz that boost up doesnt work if you are taking a lot of damage they can not keep up to heal you and they to need to run around hitting the kolto nodes just to keep the grp alive. Last time I tried doing BH with 2 65 healers and someone still kept running to the koltos (needlessly, I might add) and eventually did get knocked into the lava. I just drop group now as soon as I see it's BH, even if it's a trinity group of 4 65s, because I am sure as I can be that someone will get knocked into the lava. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 I concur; I don't run these anymore. Last one I tried was a False Emperor. After too many wipes and replacements just left at HK after group wiped twice on him. Had maybe 7 cycle through and leave group. No healers no tanks. The current bracket system is not working. That is another issues I didn't touch on! Thank you! That's another thing. Sometimes (most of the time) You get a group with all DPS! It just doesn't work! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I concur; I don't run these anymore. Last one I tried was a False Emperor. After too many wipes and replacements just left at HK after group wiped twice on him. Had maybe 7 cycle through and leave group. No healers no tanks. The current bracket system is not working. False Emperor and indeed all the ones that were level 50s are easy. If a group wipes on one of them, it's because people are just not paying attention. Wiping on HK, only excuse is standing in his AOEs. The kolto stations are right there. Edited February 3, 2016 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Too go along with the post above this one; That's the learning curve I'm talking about. and Dumbing it down doesn't help the issues. Before 4.0, by the time you got too lvl 50 False Emperor. You would have known better by now. Don't stand in Stupid! (AOE ATTACKS). I can't tell you how many times I've ran through one of those Flashpoints and everyone yelling at the one guy in the group, because He or She just doesn't know basic mechanics yet. Edited February 2, 2016 by BlakeCloudrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorsaLindahl Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I'm just going to respond to the title. Where have you been for the last 3 months? There are literally dozens of threads on this already. So my question to you is "How jacked up is your search-fu?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 What would be so wrong with having Solo/Tactical/Story Mode/Hard Mode as the tiers? More choice is good, right? I agree. I think all repeatable non-heroic or daily content should have these 4 difficulty levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFell Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 As PorsaLindahl said... this is an ongoing problem. We really need to have Flashpoints divided (again) between ones designed to be Tactical, and those which were designed to be run as a Trinity. Flashpoints at Normal difficulty should be run at their original level, allowing higher-level players to queue, but level synced (down) to the content (personal loot should still prevail, rewarding them appropriately for their time). Also worth noting, some of the Flashpoints contain spoilers, so players should only be doing them when they've achieved a certain level anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) As PorsaLindahl said... this is an ongoing problem. We really need to have Flashpoints divided (again) between ones designed to be Tactical, and those which were designed to be run as a Trinity.^QFT^ and thank you sir! These and HMs. That combined with adding trinity versions in their original level-appropriate progression order (with original level appropriate loot tables) where they belong would probably be enough to get much of our guild to come back and resubscribe as it was our mentoring system. And it wouldn't effect the tactical system at all. Alas, it won't ever happen because Bioware has already said they have no plans to bring any of the previous systems back. So going forward our options are solo modes where the GSI droids can't be dismissed when there is 2 or more players in the group, or tacticals that are tuned spcifically for elder game. There is nothing in between and won't be according to their livestreams. Edited February 3, 2016 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTyranid Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 They are easy. Thing is you have to kick one member and pull out a companion to make it easy. Just do that and tacticals are back to being simple fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 They are easy. Thing is you have to kick one member and pull out a companion to make it easy. Just do that and tacticals are back to being simple fights.Unless your character is an early game level character ... they are flashpaper in tacticals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manathayria Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 As PorsaLindahl said... this is an ongoing problem. We really need to have Flashpoints divided (again) between ones designed to be Tactical, and those which were designed to be run as a Trinity. Flashpoints at Normal difficulty should be run at their original level, allowing higher-level players to queue, but level synced (down) to the content (personal loot should still prevail, rewarding them appropriately for their time). Also worth noting, some of the Flashpoints contain spoilers, so players should only be doing them when they've achieved a certain level anyways. I agree it's an ongoing problem. I would like to see some major changes to tacticals, but I think the idea of changing back to a story mode and dividing all of the FP as is being discussed might be the wrong way to do it too. I think instead changing it so when you que the 'tactical' FP instead matches players together, then picks instance. Que system puts the entire group into a FP that is within 10 levels of the lowest level player in the FP. So you maintain the faster que from tacticals, but you're not throwing a level 16 into blood hunt where they generally don't have enough skills to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unperson Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 For example...If I am a level 20 Dps or Tank, be it a gaurdian, commanado, sorcerer, whatever. The random group tactical I got is Lost Island. Even if I have Full knowledge of the fight. I simply do not have the gear nor the tools needed for that flashpoint.. I don't have enough abilities too give me a proper rotation if I am a dps or a healer. I don't have enough defensive cooldowns or taunts too properly tank the boss Yeah... and that's why Kaon and Lost Island aren't part of the tactical GF list. You cannot queue up for a tactical and end up in either of them. That said, GF is a mess post-4.0. So much so that I formally request that the feature is renamed "Grief Finder" henceforth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectreclees Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I had a 4 dps team in a tactical flashpoint and we completed it with ease. It's all dependent on the player. They aren't that hard. Though some are harder than others. It does need some tuning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I had a 4 dps team in a tactical flashpoint and we completed it with ease. It's all dependent on the player. They aren't that hard. Though some are harder than others. It does need some tuning.What levels were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) I agree it's an ongoing problem. I would like to see some major changes to tacticals, but I think the idea of changing back to a story mode and dividing all of the FP as is being discussed might be the wrong way to do it too. I think instead changing it so when you que the 'tactical' FP instead matches players together, then picks instance. Que system puts the entire group into a FP that is within 10 levels of the lowest level player in the FP. So you maintain the faster que from tacticals, but you're not throwing a level 16 into blood hunt where they generally don't have enough skills to survive. This is the Idea I've heard thus far honestly. Having lvl sync too flashpoints would be great Edited February 3, 2016 by BlakeCloudrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeCloudrunner Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'm just going to respond to the title. Where have you been for the last 3 months? There are literally dozens of threads on this already. So my question to you is "How jacked up is your search-fu?" The fact that nothing has been done as Of yet too improve it, mean that its worth talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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