Solo player trying to get into ops.

[ForjKlahaa]

When I used to run Ops, yes, I did know what to do.

You just seem be that lazy as **** player that wants a free handout and hand-holding.

 

And you seem like the type of player I hope to never run into in-game, so I think it would be best if we no longer engaged.

[Fluffometer]

I am on the RE. We should get together and be like the blind leading the blind

 

Sounds like a plan. Probably not the best ever made, but a plan nonetheless!

[Eillack]

And you seem like the type of player I hope to never run into in-game, so I think it would be best if we no longer engaged.

 

Not my fault you made a cry thread on the forums.

 

You don't want to take the time to learn some basic stuff, that's your problem. Grow some thicker skin if you can't handle a taste of reality.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Red Eclipse

 

Not saying this to be mean, I actually enjoy helping people in OPs. But it is a persons responsibility to look up the OPs. It is literally 4 bosses, and may well be a total of 2 minutes reading (or watch a vid). No one expects new players to "memorize" 30 boss fights as you say.

 

I have to say you have prepared your gear for entry OPs perfectly, so I congratulate you on that.

 

It also depends on which OP you were in. If it is Eternity Vault or Karaggas Palace, I am sure they wouldnt have had a problem. But if it was any of the other OPs like Terror from Beyond, Dread Palace, Dread Fortress, there is just to much to go over without the person at least taking the initiative to at least skim over the strategy.

Edited February 1, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[branmakmuffin]

Well, if you say that you know the fights, I will be very angry if you make a mistake that anyone who's done it before would not do.

In SM, this is not the case because the mechanics are so easy that it's nearly impossible to make a mistake but in any of the more difficult operations, if you claim to know a fight, you can get kicked from the group for making a mistake (though usually, players will check achievements and won't trust your word anyway).

So my recommendation would be to be honest but it's your decision of course.

I am pretty sure we are talking SM, here. HM and NiM are a different ballgame. Having blank Op-related achievements when playing in an SM Op means (or should mean) nothing (although I suppose you might want to see a bit of HM FP history).

[ForjKlahaa]

Sounds like a plan. Probably not the best ever made, but a plan nonetheless!

 

I'm kind of half seriously considering trying to start a guild of know-nothings who can all get together and go through all the SM ops in chronological order, enjoying the story and trying to stay alive.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Right, because Story Mode has nothing to do with experiencing the story.

 

No it doesnt. You are in an OP, with 7 other people. Try to hold them up like people do in FPs, and you will more then likely get a kick rather quickly.

[ForjKlahaa]

Not saying this to be mean, I actually enjoy helping people in OPs. But it is a persons responsibility to look up the OPs. It is literally 4 bosses, and may well be a total of 2 minutes reading (or watch a vid). No one expects new players to "memorize" 30 boss fights as you say.

 

I have to say you have prepared your gear for entry OPs perfectly, so I congratulate you on that.

 

It also depends on which OP you were in. If it is Eternity Vault or Karaggas Palace, I am sure they wouldnt have had a problem. But if it was any of the other OPs like Terror from Beyond, Dread Palace, Dread Fortress, there is just to much to go over without the person at least taking the initiative to at least skim over the strategy.

 

I mentioned earlier that I didn't know PUGs were on a schedule and if I had I would read up happily. As it stands I have read though almost every ops guide on Dulfy but I hadn't committed them to memory and wasn't about to pretend I knew the fight when I'd never done it before.

[branmakmuffin]

No it doesnt.

Gonna assume you are trolling, there.

 

Try to hold them up like people do in FPs, and you will more then likely get a kick rather quickly.

I don't kick people from FPS for "holding me up," I kick them for not paying attention.

Edited February 1, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I mentioned earlier that I didn't know PUGs were on a schedule and if I had I would read up happily. As it stands I have read though almost every ops guide on Dulfy but I hadn't committed them to memory and wasn't about to pretend I knew the fight when I'd never done it before.

 

And that as a raiding guild is all we ask. It isn't college, where you will be tested. Do you remember which OP it was? Because as I said before that makes a big difference as well. I mean even if you didnt know it by heart, after inspecting your gear and seeing you put in some effort, I would have probably let you go no matter what the operation, especially for a pug.

 

The only time I think I would really kick someone is if they came in crap green gear, with no augs, and no knowledge.

 

All in all, I think they were being d*&^ks. But at the same time, I can understand it. You have to understand, there is alot of players that dont event take the time to make their gear entry level like you did. So people get hesitant after a while.

[Jerba]

If that mentality were "destroying the PvE community," there would be no PvE MMOs because that attitude has existed as long as raids and other "challenge" content have.

I disagree; I only started seeing this phenomenon in late 2014 on my server when players started to search for players with e+e only (equip and experience in German), and I attribute it to the fact that a) there were too few experienced raidleaders compared to the amount of new players and b) the operations were so easy that you only needed someone to get the group together, not to lead the raid.

 

While there are always elitist players, the PvE community has thrived from exchanging knowledge. You can always approach someone from a top-end guild and ask them about their strat; they are always proud when hearing that players are interested in what they're doing. Obviously, you should not ask stupid questions or you'll quickly get a L2P response, but with the right approach, you will find players with a helpful attitude.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jerba

[branmakmuffin]

I disagree; I only started seeing this phenomenon in late 2014

Then you must not have started playing until late-2014.

[Adryn]

The 'have you read tactics' line always bugs the **** out of me and why i've never bothered to do OPs.

You should NOT have to go outside the game to learn to do a fight, the only thing you should be required to do is learn by playing and this isn't on the devs, this is on other players forcing requirements on others.

It's exactly the same as the 'skip skip skip plz skip' mindset in FPs, there maybe people that have never done it before and they get screwed over.

[ForjKlahaa]

And that as a raiding guild is all we ask. It isn't college, where you will be tested. Do you remember which OP it was? Because as I said before that makes a big difference as well. I mean even if you didnt know it by heart, after inspecting your gear and seeing you put in some effort, I would have probably let you go no matter what the operation, especially for a pug.

 

The only time I think I would really kick someone is if they came in crap green gear, with no augs, and no knowledge.

 

All in all, I think they were being d*&^ks. But at the same time, I can understand it. You have to understand, there is alot of players that dont event take the time to make their gear entry level like you did. So people get hesitant after a while.

 

It was TOS which from what I understand is one of the more difficult ops. I can understand people not wanting to take the time and I don't feel entitled to their help but some of the responsibility has to fall on experienced players to help newer players and I'm not even new just new to ops so I'm not nearly the disaster I could be.

[gabigool]

The 'have you read tactics' line always bugs the **** out of me and why i've never bothered to do OPs.

You should NOT have to go outside the game to learn to do a fight, the only thing you should be required to do is learn by playing and this isn't on the devs, this is on other players forcing requirements on others.

It's exactly the same as the 'skip skip skip plz skip' mindset in FPs, there maybe people that have never done it before and they get screwed over.

 

Have to say I disagree because there needs to be some middle ground.

 

3 years ago? Sure. Hop in without knowing a thing. Because if you were in an Op 3 years ago you had done the pre-nerf leveling where you needed to do things like not stand in stupid and use your interrupt. You'd done non-tacticals so you understood tanking/healing/dps. You'd have dealt with mechanics that could kill you.

 

In other words, 3 years ago I could explain a fight in chat for 30 sec and pit could get done in a couple attempts.

 

Now? Many new players are standing in front of Operations bosses without a clue how to play their class or how roles work, how mechanics work, what a cleanse is, what their cooldowns do etc.

 

you have to balance your "You shouldn't have to go outside the game to learn..." with reality. Reality is you have players in your group that have done this content over 100 times and it's not reasonable to expect them to spent 15 minutes teaching each tank/healer/dps their job on a fight in typechat every single time. That's not the purpose of PuGs. That's purpose of guilds.

 

It's like if I went down to the park every week to play basketball and every single night people would line up that had never dribbled a ball. I don't mind helping out but I came to play, not to teach someone fundamentals. At some point I want to play.

 

And flat out it's faster (not to mention cheaper) to spend 15 minutes reading a one page guide and watching a video once than it is to wipe 3-4 times. So I'm not sure if it's people out to prove a point by doing nothing or if it's just a lack of common sense.

 

That said, at least OP is asking for help. He's not here railing against people, but rather saying "what do i need to do to get into it?" Why people are being d-bags is confusing.

[TX_Angel]

So I queued for a story mode op as an infiltration shadow and it popped straight away (TOS), when I was teleported there I said, "I'm not a new player but I am new to ops so would appreciate any help". One person asked "Have you read tactics?", I replied no because even though I HAVE looked at some guides to see what sort of things I might be up against, I didn't take the time to memorise 30+ different boss encounters without actually having played any of them so I would be prepared for whatever group finder threw at me. The words I used were "I couldn't read them all, sorry"

 

ToS is a rough OP to get started on for your first one.

 

KP or EV are the ones you want to start with, they will break you into ops much easier. I'm happy to take newbies into both, and have. I had a new tank and a new healer yesterday in EV GF. One of them pulled a random mob that we were skipping in the *pillar puzzle* area) and he said "sorry*, to which I replied, "no worries, you're new to ops and this is SM EV, that is what it is for."

 

In fairness, you may not have known this, but I wouldn't take you to ToS being new to ops either. That one still sucks, IMHO.

 

TFB would be ok for your first time as well, it would be my third choice, but you could do it.

[TX_Angel]

I really don't know what the next step is or if I even want to take it. I get that with no experience in operations and being a DPS to boot, I'm the scum of the earth or whatever as far as desirability in getting a group together goes but I don't see the point in pursuing an activity that constantly makes me feel that way.

 

If this is my trial by fire, then I'm not sure I'm interested. I though playing a GAME was supposed to be fun.

 

You can get past this, but it will be harder than it once was, just because of the state of the game.

 

The newest ops are more than a year old, a large number of players are old hand at them now. The rest of the ops are 2-4 years old.

 

When you're starting out doing old content, it can be harder to find groups that want new players. I wouldn't join via GF, you need to find like minded people. It will take some effort to find them, but once you do, ops can be rather fun.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

It was TOS which from what I understand is one of the more difficult ops. I can understand people not wanting to take the time and I don't feel entitled to their help but some of the responsibility has to fall on experienced players to help newer players and I'm not even new just new to ops so I'm not nearly the disaster I could be.

 

I totally agree with you, and the first thing I say when tanking a PUG OP, is does anyone need me to go over fights. Now, with that being said, you were lucky not to go. TOS pugs are very frustrating, more then likley wiping on Underlurker if they get that far. Honestly, it may have left a negative view from you, and not wanting to do more OPs lol.

 

But the tank, or leader was a jerk, he should have let you know that politely. I would recommend starting out on a EV or KP. Those are traditionally starting OPs.

 

I wish we were on the same server, I would have you join one of our guild PUG runs, and I bet you would have had a good time

[DanNV]

First, TOS is one of the harder SM Ops. I wouldn't want to do it as my first.

 

Now, the GF Op changes daily. Today it looks to be Dread Fortress. That's middle of the road in SM. Watch some videos and you would be pretty good jumping into it. Tomorrow looks like Scum and Villainy. It's fun, but also has some difficult fights. If you learn well from videos, you could probably do it, too. If you want an easier place to start, watch videos on Karagas Palace and Eternity Vault. Those two are the easiest Ops. Watch a couple videos so you have the idea of the mechanics and you're set for those two. As a DPS, you've got the easier mechanics to run, but being melee makes some fights in some of the Ops harder than for ranged.

 

You might also want to install Mumble, Vent and Team Speak. Be sure each works and you have a headset. Then if you get in a group using voice, you can join in. That makes the Ops a lot easier than relying on text chat and hoping you remember when to run where.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

TFB would be ok for your first time as well, it would be my third choice, but you could do it.

 

Really....

 

First time I did TFB I was freaked out with terror, and wouldnt do it for a while after

 

But most raiders arent as "LEET" as people try to portray them, yes there is some that are TOTAL jerks, but most dont mind newbies. But I have to agree, if your first OP was ToS, I would have politely let you know this is not a good first OP, and that we will need to find someone else.

[TX_Angel]

I have a friend, another healer and she is geared in all 216 with a couple 220 and all augmented and the last operation I did (because of this) would not take her because it was her first time.

 

For SM Ops? That is silly, it is way overgeared for SM ops. If someone knows enough to end up in 216/220 augmented gear, even if it is crystal gear, that is something at least...

 

Side note: I did EV SM last night via GF, 2 people were new, 1 tank and 1 healer. I bought my best pub tank, a Guardian who is in above said gear, but set bonus gear. There is no need to run EV SM on that toon for gear, but I did it because it helped new people get into ops.

 

HOWEVER

 

It was a guild run. We had 3 slots pug actually, picked from fleet, but 5 of us were guildies, 2 of them brand new to ops.

 

So perhaps the moral is, "find a good guild that is willing to help newbies". We also have 5 prog teams and do NiM ops, so it spans the spectrum from newbies to advanced. If we don't train anyone new, we will sooner or later run out of advanced players, since few people stay forever.

 

Some of these people have forgotten what it was like when they were new and they had to start somewhere and expecting someone to read the guide all the way through when they don't even know what the operation is I think is a way so they can act like "elitist". I wonder sometimes where they would be if when they first started no one was willing to help them learn the ropes.

 

I was there once, brand new to ops, no clue at all, way back at 2.0. I managed to find a guild that was willing to help me along. I remember it well, it was TFB and I had NO IDEA what was going on, but I listened in TS and paid attention, and it went fine.

 

I've paid that forward many times since. However, it is worth noting the OP was in ToS. I would NOT want to take a newbie to ops to ToS the first time, that might be part of the problem. It was a PUG, that is the other problem.

[TX_Angel]

I am pretty sure we are talking SM, here. HM and NiM are a different ballgame. Having blank Op-related achievements when playing in an SM Op means (or should mean) nothing (although I suppose you might want to see a bit of HM FP history).

 

For some of them, yes... for ToS? Bleh... If you have no ops experience, ToS is not the place to start.

 

Of course someone new wouldn't know that, but it remains true.

[Tsillah]

Red Eclipse

 

I am on The Red Eclipse and we have more members that are learning to do operations. If you're interested in joining a group of players that has a more casual approach to people who are new to operations feel free to send me a message. Just don't want to turn this thread into a guild recruitment message

[Vhaegrant]

I'm kind of half seriously considering trying to start a guild of know-nothings who can all get together and go through all the SM ops in chronological order, enjoying the story and trying to stay alive.

 

There are some good guilds on Red Eclipse. Maybe try a post on the server specific forums, you never know you may have some like minded people browsing.

 

Unfortunately PUGs, even for SM, are a hit and miss affair. You're as likely to stumble across the kind of player that has to PUG for a reason (no guild will have them), or good players that are in a hurry and want to bypass as much of the OP as possible just to hit the boss fights.

 

Been here since launch and I've only done the last half of Karagga's Palace. That's not SWTORs fault, just that I was so scared by my experiences of raiding in World of Warcraft I have very little desire to experience the same player dynamics. Not to mention the end game grind for gear was never a great motivator for me as it usually became redundant at each new expansion.

 

SM should be an introduction to the boss mechanics, nothing punishing but enough of an idea that you can progress onto the harder difficulty modes once you've learnt them.

Personally I feel it's a bit of a cop out to say you have to read up boss mechanics from a third party source and/or require a third party asset like VoIP to coordinate effectively when the game doesn't include it.

I've also encountered far too many groups that expect you to be overgeared for the content you're running.

 

I wish you all the best on your transition to end game and hope you are able to find a guild that's active enough to support SM OPs (I found many are only focused on ones that give them better gear, so HM and NiM).

[TX_Angel]

The 'have you read tactics' line always bugs the **** out of me and why i've never bothered to do OPs.

You should NOT have to go outside the game to learn to do a fight, the only thing you should be required to do is learn by playing and this isn't on the devs, this is on other players forcing requirements on others.

It's exactly the same as the 'skip skip skip plz skip' mindset in FPs, there maybe people that have never done it before and they get screwed over.

 

You don't have to go outside of the game to learn the OP, you totally can learn by doing.

 

But in the process, you'll likely wipe multiple times.

 

This is fine if you're ALL new and you have a like-minded group of people who are experiencing an OP for the first time.

 

But what happens when you have 7 old hands who know it front to back, and you're "new player" who wants to "experience it all for the first time and learn as you go"? Do you really think it is reasonable for the other 7 people to double the length of the op and wipe 5 times because you want to learn on the job?

 

This really does come down to the "skip, skip, skip" thing in FP. If 3 people are old hands who have seen it 57 times, and want to skip, and you want to take your time and watch everything, see everything, kill everything, you aren't likely to be very popular.

 

The needs of the many, vs. needs of the few, or the one...