Solo mode boss fights should be like this

[lilathrone]

So I did star fortresses on the weekend with my main, and since I couldn't get any players to group up with for one, I decided that I would try one solo since many players did them this way.

 

I LOVED the Exarch boss fight in the end, and when I complain about the brain dead easy solo content, I complain because the boss fights aren't like this (trash I don't care about). Engaging and fun! Seriously, with multiple not too complicated mechanics a relatively long fight with Duel of the heroes in the background. Amazing. I even died on the first try, as strange as it sounds, I liked dying for once!

So even if I know that class/planetary/side quest bosses will remain the same (less than 10 second easy button mash), I decided to make this thread as a feedback on how well they made the Exarch fights and when designing future boss fights, this is the right direction (I know SF designed for 2 player groups, but still)

If you have any opinions on the matter, please share

[RahaylaCora]

I am enjoying them, too. I am not geared enough (a mix of gear from 188 to 220, and medic companion at influence 10-14) and taking around 3 or 4 hours to end the mission. Challenging and sometimes frustrating (i know, i know, undergeared) but the kind of challenging content for solo mode that i missed since Oricon champions in the heroic area. I have tried with buffs, no buffs... only one planet left to be freed. Enjoying now, before the challenge fades away as i get myself more powerful. And probably the main reason to make some of my alts into the kotfe story when they are still "weak".

[Storm-Cutter]

Having come close a couple of times with my watchman, it was a real sense of achievement to finally down it and get the title. OFC better gear and tons more companion affection would've made it a bit easier, but to come tantalizingly close and finally beat it, using wits, guile and luck...... I danced a little jig and whooped a little when I completed it.

 

I want to work hard for something, a few fails is fine- over a dozen and you get frustrated, but to do it first time, without learning anything - that feels kinda worthless.

[Yomitako]

While this sentiment would probably be agreed upon by a number of players (including myself), if that ended up being the case and boss fights were tuned to this kind of difficulty, then you'd end up with a whole new camp coming out of the woodwork complaining that things are too hard for them, they can't do them solo, and they are being "forced to group up when they don't want to".

 

There will never be a happy medium in games anymore (so not just this one but all over the place)

[SteveTheCynic]

At my gear level (mostly 216, 208 boots, 220 belt/wrists, one 186 relic, one 216, 220/216/216 HBG, all 208-augmented except the relics, all on a Gunnery Commando), an SF takes 60-90 minutes, depending on how clumsy I am while I do the trash. (Watch out for the hidden boss-grade dudes called "Paladins".)

 

My first solo run was, in some ways, my favourite, because it was my first run (solo or not) in a Destroy mission, and of course I didn't research the mechanics before I went in, and nobody in my guild had done any of them either, so I had to work it out for myself. And it was Voss, where the Exarch is the most troublesome, because he has a potent self-heal. And of course I didn't research that either, so I found it out when his health bar went up instead of down at one point.

 

But it was good fun, and highlighted the need to learn how the mechanics of your class work.

[lilathrone]

While this sentiment would probably be agreed upon by a number of players (including myself), if that ended up being the case and boss fights were tuned to this kind of difficulty, then you'd end up with a whole new camp coming out of the woodwork complaining that things are too hard for them, they can't do them solo, and they are being "forced to group up when they don't want to".

 

There will never be a happy medium in games anymore (so not just this one but all over the place)

 

Yea I agree, and I'm only day dreaming.

It's certain that story mode bosses couldn't be tuned to a SF Exarch difficulty level, but still.. would be awesome for us minority

[branmakmuffin]

While this sentiment would probably be agreed upon by a number of players (including myself), if that ended up being the case and boss fights were tuned to this kind of difficulty, then you'd end up with a whole new camp coming out of the woodwork complaining that things are too hard for them, they can't do them solo, and they are being "forced to group up when they don't want to".

 

There will never be a happy medium in games anymore (so not just this one but all over the place)

Just remember that one person's "challenge" is another's "bloody impossible," MMOs have to carter to a wide audience or they die. "Casuals" are a much bigger audience than whatever you want to call "non-casuals."

[SteveTheCynic]

Having come close a couple of times with my watchman, it was a real sense of achievement to finally down it and get the title. OFC better gear and tons more companion affection would've made it a bit easier, but to come tantalizingly close and finally beat it, using wits, guile and luck...... I danced a little jig and whooped a little when I completed it.

 

I want to work hard for something, a few fails is fine- over a dozen and you get frustrated, but to do it first time, without learning anything - that feels kinda worthless.

I actually managed to finish one (Voss, no less) the first time I did one. I hadn't done it in a group, nor had I done the slightest trace of research on what was beyond the EPHEMERIS room. I died at least a dozen times after I first entered the reactor ring:

 

* I didn't look up, thus I didn't see the grappling line attachment points. Instead, I tried to do a GW2 thing and walk along ropes. That cost me at least a couple of falls into the void.

* I didn't understand the deal with the sunscreen, and I fried. :eek:

* I fell into the void multiple times when I landed pointing back the way I came and used the ZQSD keys (AZERTY keyboard) to walk off the edge. :eek:

* I got squished by various people during the click-the-console rooms because I was trying to work out what I needed to do instead of fighting the foes.

* I got killed by the Exarch a couple of times because this was before the companion nerf, and Healing-Lana was strong enough to challenge me for aggro, and simultaneously she was bugged and had inadequate (euphemism for "non-existent") defensive values, so if she took aggro, the Exarch effectively mashed her, then me. :mad:

 

 

Despite all that, I eventually beat it, and rejoiced, and exited back to Odessen, where someone was recruiting for a group to do another one... (I decided not to jump straight back in, and besides I wanted the next one to be a different one, and the only bunker I had nuked was Voss.)

[nospmiS]

This is probably how most people feel about the game, they like a challenge but the problem is hardly anyone comes to the forums to say how they enjoyed a particular fight because it was challenging and fun. 95% of the forums are filled with people who died one or two times and come ***** that the content is too hard and they shouldnt have to worry about their gear. they are the proper level and should be able to just one shot and collect the free loots.

[Mirandel]

So I did star fortresses on the weekend with my main, and since I couldn't get any players to group up with for one, I decided that I would try one solo since many players did them this way.

 

I LOVED the Exarch boss fight in the end, and when I complain about the brain dead easy solo content, I complain because the boss fights aren't like this (trash I don't care about). Engaging and fun! Seriously, with multiple not too complicated mechanics a relatively long fight with Duel of the heroes in the background. Amazing. I even died on the first try, as strange as it sounds, I liked dying for once!

So even if I know that class/planetary/side quest bosses will remain the same (less than 10 second easy button mash), I decided to make this thread as a feedback on how well they made the Exarch fights and when designing future boss fights, this is the right direction (I know SF designed for 2 player groups, but still)

If you have any opinions on the matter, please share

 

But it WAS like this (well, close to that) long ago. You could die in your story fighting a Big Evil\Good quite easily. If you read forum posts s several years back, you will find plenty "omg, I can not kill this!!!" about story bosses.

Well, things change. But we still have our challenge in SF.

[Narasil]

Couldn't agree more.

 

I wish the "2 man" heroics could be more challenging (not THIS challenging, but still). It would be cool to have Hard mode, and Nightmare Mode for a SOLO run in all flashpoints IMVHO.

[ButeoRegalis]

Well, this gives me a little bit of hope to find challenging solo content.

 

I took a long break from SWTOR, leaving when 55 was max level, and one of the reasons I came back was some really great solo stuff you could do, that was a touch challenge. Back then, the 2+ heroics were great fun, if you went in at level or slightly above with just your comp. (granted, back then comps weren't gods).

 

My best memories are the bosses at the ends of the 2+ heroic at the end of the Oricon story chain, where I had to find any and all skills that could interrupt those brutal channels that boss dished out, including using the comps cc manually, and that GSI macro binocular 2+ heroic mission on Makeb.

[kirorx]

But it WAS like this (well, close to that) long ago. You could die in your story fighting a Big Evil\Good quite easily. If you read forum posts s several years back, you will find plenty "omg, I can not kill this!!!" about story bosses.

Well, things change. But we still have our challenge in SF.

 

All of this. I was going to say this, lol. I remeber having to gear up and grab some heal packs for boss fights.

[MDChen]

Problem with having similar "difficult" boss fight in solo story mode is the issue with point of recovery if you die.

 

It is not fun to wait for the instra-resurrect cd to try the battle again. or to be teleport back to the "nearest" medical center\entrance and to run all the way back to give the fight another try. This game does not have a save\load feature to remove this type of frustration in a supposed "fun" difficult fight.

 

That why though it is fine to have these fights in a non-story progression instances or as optional bosses but it is going to turn most players away from the game if almost every story mode boss will required them to try the fight numerous of times to succeed, or have to grind for days\weeks until they got a better set of gears to come back to give that fight another try, or have to wait for hours in fleet LFG to help kill a story boss. Recall this used to be case during the 1st year of the game, after numerous tries I figure out that I am just not that good a player and my Jedi Knight cannot win that fight on my own and will need help to defeat the emperor in the final fight if I want to complete his story. Take me days of asking in general chat before some kind soul finally offer to help me and this was in the early days that server are still heavily populated. This is so frustrating that it was not fun at all.

 

Not to mention most casual players typically has only 1~2 hours to spend on the game each time they logon. So a standard flashpoint run could easily take away that 1~2 hours of their game time, few will have the luxury to keep trying on a boss until it is defeated just for that "fun" factor especially when their main goal to just progress the story..

 

There is a thin line between frustration and fun when you make certain content too difficult. So I can understand why BW are making the story mode easier to cater to the masses. After all as someone said earlier, one man challenge is another man impossibility..

Edited February 1, 2016 by MDChen

[Storm-Cutter]

For some of us older gamers, we remember that a lot of old-school video games had settings which increased the difficulty or reduced it - even if it were just three settings easy/normal/hard.

 

I can see where BW is trying to go with the game in some instances -for FPs there is a story mode - so that solo players don't miss out on content - a Tactical mode where some group co-ordination is required, then HM - and obviously there are NiM ops - It must be a relief that a lot of content can be completed on one setting or another for a lot of people. - It just was an oversight to put the emphasis on H2s at the end of KotFE (coz nothing new) but not have them at least story/tactical/hard modes with rewards to match was poor. (Common/glowing/Radiant maybe ?)

 

But the story sucked all their resources dry- leaving little time for any fine tuning or play-testing, I guess.

 

I'm all for casuals getting the most out of the game - but the veterans need something to challenge them. - There is a way, but it takes Dev time and money unfortunately.

[SteveTheCynic]

But it WAS like this (well, close to that) long ago. You could die in your story fighting a Big Evil\Good quite easily. If you read forum posts s several years back, you will find plenty "omg, I can not kill this!!!" about story bosses.

Well, things change. But we still have our challenge in SF.

OMG the Trooper story boss on Voss...

 

The megasith who fights you standing in front of the ZR-57 missile. I was Preferred at the time, and wasn't really keeping up in XP, nor in gear. I spent all of Voss one or two levels underleveled, and couldn't take that guy. I could have gone away and grinded a bunch of XP and gear, but that would have been work compared to typing "Can anyone help me with this dude on Voss?" in guild chat... (This was before 3.0 came out, but probably not long before.)

 

[FlyingUsPoo]

But it WAS like this (well, close to that) long ago. You could die in your story fighting a Big Evil\Good quite easily. If you read forum posts s several years back, you will find plenty "omg, I can not kill this!!!" about story bosses.

Well, things change. But we still have our challenge in SF.

 

Remember when you HAD to update your gear at least every five levels...<sigh>

Before the dark times... before the Retuning.

[SteveTheCynic]

Remember when you HAD to update your gear at least every five levels...<sigh>

Before the dark times... before the Retuning.

God, and having to do it for your companion as well. At least I was a DPS Trooper dragging Elara everywhere, where the "ideal" gear was sufficiently alike between me and her that I could do the "hand-me-down" thing. (This was before there was such a stat as Mastery, and Trooper was the only class where all the companions had the same mainstat. And Commando was the only AC where in normal levelling progression you had a your-class-only mainhand weapon which would drop from foes equipped with the wrong mainstat. I was usually around 50-50 on finding HBGs with Aim or Cunning. There was never any Strength-statted double-bladed sabres, nor Willpower offhand-only sabres. On the Pub side, no Aim offhand pistols, nor Cunning ones on the Imp side. But half of the HBGs I found were Cunning, and thus correct for nobody.)

[IanArgent]

Problem with having similar "difficult" boss fight in solo story mode is the issue with point of recovery if you die.

 

It is not fun to wait for the instra-resurrect cd to try the battle again. or to be teleport back to the "nearest" medical center\entrance and to run all the way back to give the fight another try. This game does not have a save\load feature to remove this type of frustration in a supposed "fun" difficult fight.

 

 

The final JK fight on Belsavis - in which you could NOT resurrect on the spot, even as a sub - you HAD to fight your way in from the instance entrance EVERY TIME. And the final encounter was set up to have you NOT FIGHT, but run around clicking bombs while friendly adds kept the enemy off you (per the internet guides I resorted to looking at after tearing my hair out). And I was overlevel and geared on par at the time, too.

[Smuglebunny]

when I first fought the exarch I didnt know what to do and sat there for like 20 min fighting till i died. I was pissed. Then I went on Dulfy.net and learned what to do lol.

[SteveTheCynic]

when I first fought the exarch I didnt know what to do and sat there for like 20 min fighting till i died. I was pissed. Then I went on Dulfy.net and learned what to do lol.

Usual stuff. Duh. Interrupts, Heroic Moments, DCDs, the special bonus skills from the terminals behind the Paladins. (I like the turret. The turret is awesome. The turret generates more aggro than me. Yooooooooz the turret.)

 

And Hold The Line!

 

And keep the Exarch from locking on to your companion.

 

That's all.