Ataru Inconcistencies

[Vaxael]

A large issue that I have with SWTOR's Ataru is its lack of acrobatic abilities, even though it is described as an "acrobatic form." Not only every Marauder/Sentinel discipline, but every Juggernaut/Guardian discipline (save for Tank) is more acrobatic, containing at least one acrobatic attack.

 

To fix this, I have some suggestions:

- Make Force Charge/Force Leap useable at any distance for Ataru Discipline (yes, I know that it is not the technical name of the discipline, but for ease of writing I will refer to it as such). This will also supplement the rage/focus generation of the discipline, as I know that can be an issue. (this can be further supplemented by putting it on a system similar to the operative/scoundrel roll ability, letting one be used right after the other followed by a cooldown)

- Simply add more acrobatic attacks, replace abilities, or change animations. Eg: replace Precision/Gore with something more useful, change the animation of the Vicious Slash/Focused Strike replacement ability (I forget the name, sorry)

- Buff Smash/Sweep (cooldown, damage, effects, etc)

- Or, change all of this to change the form from Ataru to Jar'Kai, as the style is much more reminiscent of Jar'Kai than Ataru

[Hei_Atzfel]

What each form is supposed to be like lore-wise doesn't really bother me. I care about forms in-lore for RP but when it comes to PvE and PvP lore has no real concern to me; so long as everything functions properly. Combat is fine how it is currently so I can't really say I'd like to see any changes. Perhaps making Stoic a Sentinel passive as well as making the two Leg Slash utilities into a single in the Skillful tier, but that's a problem with Sentinels as a whole, not Combat.

[jauvtus]

- Or, change all of this to change the form from Ataru to Jar'Kai, as the style is much more reminiscent of Jar'Kai than Ataru

 

I agree with prev poster wholeheartedly, I just want to point out a lorewise misunderstanding: Ataru is a Lightsaber Form, while Jar'Kai is a Lightsaber Fighting Style. Jar'Kai means that you use two lightsabers instead of only one. Using Jar'Kai doesnt determine your Lightsaber form: Combat sentinels use Ataru, Concentration use Shii-Cho, Watchman use Juyo, Ahsoka used Shien, Asajj used Makashi, yet all of these use Jar'Kai.

And btw Ataru relies on unnatural speed and precision, not acrobatics, even in lore.

[Vaxael]

I agree with prev poster wholeheartedly, I just want to point out a lorewise misunderstanding: Ataru is a Lightsaber Form, while Jar'Kai is a Lightsaber Fighting Style. Jar'Kai means that you use two lightsabers instead of only one. Using Jar'Kai doesnt determine your Lightsaber form: Combat sentinels use Ataru, Concentration use Shii-Cho, Watchman use Juyo, Ahsoka used Shien, Asajj used Makashi, yet all of these use Jar'Kai.

And btw Ataru relies on unnatural speed and precision, not acrobatics, even in lore.

 

Speed and precision is Makashi, no? Besides, in the forms description itself, it says "enters an acrobatic lightsaber form"

 

also:

 

"Ataru was characterized by Force-assisted acrobatics, such as summersaults and leaping strikes, both for attack and defense... Notable users included Yoda..." (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV/Legends)

 

"Form IV, also called Ataru, is the most acrobatic Form, filled with numerous elaborate moves, and relies heavily upon a Jedi's ability to run, jump, and spin using the Force." (Cin Drallig, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV/Legends)

[jauvtus]

Speed and precision is Makashi, no? Besides, in the forms description itself, it says "enters an acrobatic lightsaber form"

 

also:

 

"Ataru was characterized by Force-assisted acrobatics, such as summersaults and leaping strikes, both for attack and defense... Notable users included Yoda..." (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV/Legends)

 

"Form IV, also called Ataru, is the most acrobatic Form, filled with numerous elaborate moves, and relies heavily upon a Jedi's ability to run, jump, and spin using the Force." (Cin Drallig, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV/Legends)

 

I read the same page:

"Ataru was an aggressive combat form relying on a combination of strength, speed, and agility. Due to this, it was also called the Way of the Hawk-bat or the Aggression Form. Practitioners of Ataru were always on the offensive, attacking with wide, fast, and powerful swings. Form IV practitioners constantly called upon the Force to aid in their movements and attacks. By allowing the Force to flow throughout their body, they could overcome their physical limitations—including old age, as was the case with Master Yoda—and perform amazing feats of acrobatics, such as somersaults and backflips, not only for attack, but also to evade the slashes and strikes of their opponents.[1] Jedi utilizing Ataru needed to incorporate all the Force powers that involved surpassing normal physical ranges of motion, speed, and agility in order to be successful. Running, jumping, and spinning were all emphasized in learning the elaborate kinetics of the form.[16]

Those who used Form IV could move at high speeds and could rain strong blows, jumping and attacking through the air. Powerful and quick spinning attacks could be utilized from all angles, either from ground or air. A master in Ataru combat could appear like a blur to their opponents, attacking from all directions—the front, the sides, overhead, or behind. The Force not only allowed them to perform athletic feats not possible otherwise, but it also helped guide their actions and movements in combat."

 

The words that keep repeating is speed, run, agility, blur... The true Ataru master moves at unnatural speed to finish his opponent fast. He also uses this speed to perform acrobatics as part of his defense, part of his offense to attack from multiple directions almost at the same time. Precision? He wouldnt be able to hit anything moving that fast, that's why he uses the Force to guide his hands to be precise.

As I see, acrobatics is a consequence of the haste of Ataru. You can say its the most acrobatic form, but as I see it, its not because it builds on acrobatics, rather its just comee naturally from the real base of Ataru: speed.

[Cuiwe]

A large issue that I have with SWTOR's Ataru is its lack of acrobatic abilities, even though it is described as an "acrobatic form." Not only every Marauder/Sentinel discipline, but every Juggernaut/Guardian discipline (save for Tank) is more acrobatic, containing at least one acrobatic attack.

 

To fix this, I have some suggestions:

- Make Force Charge/Force Leap useable at any distance for Ataru Discipline (yes, I know that it is not the technical name of the discipline, but for ease of writing I will refer to it as such). This will also supplement the rage/focus generation of the discipline, as I know that can be an issue. (this can be further supplemented by putting it on a system similar to the operative/scoundrel roll ability, letting one be used right after the other followed by a cooldown)

- Simply add more acrobatic attacks, replace abilities, or change animations. Eg: replace Precision/Gore with something more useful, change the animation of the Vicious Slash/Focused Strike replacement ability (I forget the name, sorry)

- Buff Smash/Sweep (cooldown, damage, effects, etc)

- Or, change all of this to change the form from Ataru to Jar'Kai, as the style is much more reminiscent of Jar'Kai than Ataru

 

This again? lol. I wrote a lengthy discussion and analysis of the state of "Fightsabre" before. The thing I will not do again. But, let me see if I can link it...

 

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/411415/fightsabre-blows-in-this-one#latest

 

There you have it

[Vaxael]

This again? lol. I wrote a lengthy discussion and analysis of the state of "Fightsabre" before. The thing I will not do again. But, let me see if I can link it...

 

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/411415/fightsabre-blows-in-this-one#latest

 

There you have it

 

In another thread, I included another option, a replacement for Ravage that was more acrobatic. Note that I have already been responding and making modifications further down the thread in response to some people's suggestions. Here is the link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864059

[Strref]

I admittedly just use my imagination to cancel out SWTOR's derp in this department.

 

Basic summary form:

 

Jug/Guard

 

Tank: Shii-Cho, Soresu (primary)

DPS: Shii-Cho, Soresu, Shien (primary)

Burst: Soresu, Ataru (primary)

 

Mad/Sent:

 

DPS: Niman, Makashi (primary), Juyo

DPS/Burst: Niman, Makashi, Juyo (primary)

Burst: Ataru (primary), Makashi, Juyo

 

Basic Class Shii-Cho = Shii-Cho. The basic essence of lightsaber combat. Stays Shii-Cho for Guard/Jug tank specs and Vengeance/Vigilance, as their offensive abilities are basic and straightforward.

 

Makashi = Replaces Juyo as it presently exists. "Juyo" is the primary form used by Watchman/Annihilation and Makashi is the perfect fit here. Formless yet disciplined, mobile without being acrobatic (the many instant abilities used by this spec and lack of acrobatic moves), and the ultimate form of single combat--this fits the Watchman/Annihilation "master of single target DPS" idea perfectly. As using dual sabers is inherently a rather quick, duel-focused style it makes sense that all dual saber practitioners would have access to this offensive form.

 

Soresu = Perfect like it is. Defensive "tank" form for Guards/Jugs of all sorts. Not much to say here.

 

Ataru = Stylistically replaces Shii-Cho for Rage/Focus specs. Meshes well with the many leaping motions/abilities and related cooldowns. Also replaces Niman for Fury/Concentration Sent/Marauder for the same reasons. Also worth noting that these are the most "Force heavy" of the knight/warrior lines, and that ataru was favored by a number of consulars/inquisitors who were above average in saber ability (Yoda and Qui-Gon, for instance), suggesting it meshes well with aggressive use of force ability intermixed with saber combat. Furthermore, these specs are all about mobility and "keeping things moving" and ataru is all about that!

 

Shien/Djem So = Advanced form for Vigilance/Vengeance. Turns defense into offense, a parry into aggression. Fits nicely with the DOTs and AOEs of the classes; it takes a bit of imagination, but one can see the superb blaster deflection of Shien and the aggressive parrying defenses of Djem So causing the AOE DOT type damage. Otherwise, the forms powerful stances and aggressive attacking animations (both the Sith and Jedi styles) fit.

 

Niman = The typical core of dual blade fighting styles, a simple and relaxed form with no particular strengths or weaknesses. Easy to master and practical. This replaces Shii-Cho for Sentinels/Marauders.

 

Juyo = Pure aggression. Bold moves, open stances, broad swipes. This replaces the current role of Ataru for Combat/Carnage, and fits it perfectly. Bursts of supreme aggression and broad strikes fit both the damage style and visuals of this spec. Nothing better fits the most outright punishing single target melee bursts in the game. Likewise, just like Niman and Makashi, it makes sense that all dual saberists would have this--Combat/Carnage are just the masters.

 

Anyhow, that's how I think of the styles, how they look and how they work. EAware can call them whatever they want on my toolbar.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Strref

[nikaj]

I've always agreed on this topic. Defensive cooldowns such as our cc breaker have no animation, why not add a backflip etc.

 

I don't see why Assassin's/Shadows didn't get shadow stride as a short range leap over to position behind their target.

 

Little things that make things more interesting and pleasing on the eye. Rather than the current static just smash it til it dies.