Mace Windu vs Starkiller

[Beniboybling]

Mace Windu vs TFU II Starkiller

 

Battleground: Kamino Cloning Chamber

 

Instead of facing Darth Vader, Starkiller must defeat Mace Windu. Characters start 25 meters apart, are in their primes and have full use of their abilities. Who wins?

 

NOTE: Please provide reasoning for your opinion to spark some argument, no one word answers.

[AlienEyeTX]

Starkiller

[adormitul]

This is hard you see Starkiller is not a exceptional anything meaning duelist or force user but while he is not a master of all lightsaber forms what he knows are put to good use and he can alternate between forms using what needs to be used not limiting himself at anything. The same thing with force powers he has nothing special like a force push that can break a mountain or destroy a army but the force push is fast very fast average with very low charge and focus time. The same with all his skills. This kinds of skills can help him against any kind of force user so what if you can destroy a army with force push if takes time to charge be sure Starkiller will not let you.

 

But his opponent is Mace Windu who knows all lightsaber forms and his force power and endurance and strength are top tier but that is not what his advantage is as Vader had that also. The problem is his shatterpoint ability where you basically see the weak point of your enemy if the enemy does not know what the weak point is how can he defend against such a ability. Its a ability with which he defeated Sidious the only enemy Starkiller could not defeat. As far as we know Starkiller does not know his weak point but to his credit he creates a weak point unfortunately Windu's techniques is faster so my opinion is Windu wins.

Edited December 10, 2015 by adormitul

[ConVallian]

I love starkiller but wouldn't Mace's Vaapad be the perfect weapon against starkiller?

[adormitul]

I love starkiller but wouldn't Mace's Vaapad be the perfect weapon against starkiller?

 

I considered that also the problem is I do not think Starkiller does not know about Vaapad as from the novel we learned he at least has knowledge of all lightsaber forms and one of his strong points finding the best right way to defeat the enemy. So probably he will use the lightsaber form that is strong against Vaapad after its a evolved form of juyo so it must have its counter.

[ConVallian]

Just saying while Starkiller would adapt his fighting style to counter Mace, would he before its to late?

I mean Mace was the first and last Vaapad user so its a style Marek hasnt fought against before.But starkiller went toe-to-toe with sidious right after beating Vader.... Dang it Beni you choose the best match-ups. They are so close it could go either way.

[Jarons]

I love starkiller but wouldn't Mace's Vaapad be the perfect weapon against starkiller?

Starkiller is not a Sith or even a Dark Jedi so Vaapad won't have that big of a affect on him as with Sid.He let his emotions fly loose but it's not all anger with Vaapad use to empower the user.Also Vaapad is what allowed Mace to keep up with Sid.Starkiller is very Fast he can just outpace windu.

[Jarons]

I considered that also the problem is I do not think Starkiller does not know about Vaapad as from the novel we learned he at least has knowledge of all lightsaber forms and one of his strong points finding the best right way to defeat the enemy. So probably he will use the lightsaber form that is strong against Vaapad after its a evolved form of juyo so it must have its counter.

Starkiller might have fought against Vaapad in the form of Proxy.Proxy had some of the strongest Jedi in the Jedi order in his databanks and starkiller fought him countless times and never lost.So he might have some experience against Vaapad and Mace.This might just be conjecture since we have no way to prove it.

 

Also Starkiller knows Juyo so he might be able to use its weakness to his advantage like you said.

[Jarons]

This is hard you see Starkiller is not a exceptional anything meaning duelist or force user but while he is not a master of all lightsaber forms what he knows are put to good use and he can alternate between forms using what needs to be used not limiting himself at anything. The same thing with force powers he has nothing special like a force push that can break a mountain or destroy a army but the force push is fast very fast average with very low charge and focus time. The same with all his skills. This kinds of skills can help him against any kind of force user so what if you can destroy a army with force push if takes time to charge be sure Starkiller will not let you.

 

But his opponent is Mace Windu who knows all lightsaber forms and his force power and endurance and strength are top tier but that is not what his advantage is as Vader had that also. The problem is his shatterpoint ability where you basically see the weak point of your enemy if the enemy does not know what the weak point is how can he defend against such a ability. Its a ability with which he defeated Sidious the only enemy Starkiller could not defeat. As far as we know Starkiller does not know his weak point but to his credit he creates a weak point unfortunately Windu's techniques is faster so my opinion is Windu wins.

Am really starting to think you dont know much about Star wars Character to tell you the truth.To say Starkiller isn't anything Exceptional is worst than a understatement.He guided a Imperial Star destroyer into a planet.He survived Planetary Reentry and held a Frigate together with the Force.He out dueled and Defeated Jedi Masters and a Jedi council member.He defeated Darth Vader someone who have Killed scores of Jedi.He even Tanked the Did lightening for a while.Which is the strongest lightening in the mythos.

 

As he was stated as

 

Starkiller is stated to have nearly perfected the art of lightsaber combat:

 

Under Vader's relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

Also he has a Force Repulse that can disintegrate people and used it to destroy Hundreds of Force infused Junk droids.Nahhh he has nothing special.Not to forgot his Force lightening that put down Vader and Killed a Rancor with it.

 

A rancor bearing a Felucian rider thundered through the forest, crushing delicate life-forms beneath its clawed feet and sniffing for his scent. The apprentice jumped from mushroom cap to mushroom cap until he was in a position above the rider’s head, then he leapt down with lightsaber swinging. The rider’s organic headdress covered everything from the neck up, as with all the warriors. He had some Force resistance, but he couldn’t withstand Darth Vader’s apprentice for long. Once the rider was dispatched, he brought down the rancor with a stream of Sith lightning that made its eyes shine like the headlights of a city speeder. It died with a roar that echoed through the jungle.

-- The Force Unleashed

 

There also this quote.

 

Vader's apprentice was both strong in the Force and incredibly aggressive. As a teenager, the apprentice was already more powerful than many Jedi Knights had been during the Clone Wars, and it was only Darth Vader's incredible power and skill that allowed him to defeat the boy in combat.

-- The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide

 

So even Darth Vader had trouble with him before he was even close to being Prime.Darth Vader who is arguable stronger than Mace had trouble with him.So Its safe to say he will be able to Contend and even Defeat Mace.

 

While you make a fair point about Mace Shatter point that's not a instant I win bottom.It will help Mace but Starkiller will be able to Keep up and counter Mace when he gets a chance.Especially Since he is Faster than Mace in my opinion and has Better speed Feats again my opinion. Also Windu one the Duel portion but not the Force duel.He lost that hands down.The main point that you have to realize here is when starkiller can not defeat someone with his impressive Lightsaber abilities he will overwhelm you and kill you with his immpressive Force abilities which Mace will not be able to Counter.Mace will lose starkiller is just to strong.

[adormitul]

Am really starting to think you dont know much about Star wars Character to tell you the truth.To say Starkiller isn't anything Exceptional is worst than a understatement.He guided a Imperial Star destroyer into a planet.He survived Planetary Reentry and held a Frigate together with the Force.He out dueled and Defeated Jedi Masters and a Jedi council member.He defeated Darth Vader someone who have Killed scores of Jedi.He even Tanked the Did lightening for a while.Which is the strongest lightening in the mythos.

 

As he was stated as

 

 

 

Also he has a Force Repulse that can disintegrate people and used it to destroy Hundreds of Force infused Junk droids.Nahhh he has nothing special.Not to forgot his Force lightening that put down Vader and Killed a Rancor with it.

 

 

 

There also this quote.

 

 

 

So even Darth Vader had trouble with him before he was even close to being Prime.Darth Vader who is arguable stronger than Mace had trouble with him.So Its safe to say he will be able to Contend and even Defeat Mace.

 

While you make a fair point about Mace Shatter point that's not a instant I win bottom.It will help Mace but Starkiller will be able to Keep up and counter Mace when he gets a chance.Especially Since he is Faster than Mace in my opinion and has Better speed Feats again my opinion. Also Windu one the Duel portion but not the Force duel.He lost that hands down.The main point that you have to realize here is when starkiller can not defeat someone with his impressive Lightsaber abilities he will overwhelm you and kill you with his immpressive Force abilities which Mace will not be able to Counter.Mace will lose starkiller is just to strong.

 

Okay I know he took down a destroyer but he had to have time to concentrate do you have time to focus like that in a duel. Do anybody thinks you have time for that? While Mace did killed a army of droids with the force without the charging time. You have to keep this in mind if it takes time to concentrate to use then its useless in a duel. Does anyone disagrees with this?

Now if you know about star wars you will know that Mace Windu is very very fast if there is edge Starkiller has it a slight edge and in endurance there is no edge he prove that when he destroyed a entire droid army with his fists. If you ever did any kind of martial arts in your life you will understand that its exhausting in a couple of minutes you will start to sweat another couple of minutes and you will feel the effects on your body. The sheer amount of force you use to punch someone adds to the shock you receive and its not easy to take do that hundreds of times and you will see what I mean. If you never did martial arts take splitting firewood with a axe after you cut about 50 you will feel pain in your arms. That is wood take punching trough metal for hundreds of times.

Windu is a beast and I do not believe he will be overwhelmed he has just too much endurance.

 

About lighting its gonna be like with Sidious its gonna be blocked and sent back sorry but yeah so that is a non issue. And for Vader did you forgot that Vader trained Starkiller and had quite a number of duels before trust me Starkiller know how to fight Vader and win he knows his style and his weakness as Obi Won knew that of Anakin.

[Beniboybling]

Starkiller is incredibly powerful, and more powerful than Windu - I suggest reading his respect threads:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/galen-marek-respect-thread-1647869/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/zapan87/blog/starkiller-clone-respect-thread/99783/

 

And Windu's performance against Sidious was circumstantial. His emotional state led him to use Vaapad to an extent he had never done before, and he had the vast powerful of Darth Sidious to channel.

[adormitul]

Starkiller is incredibly powerful, and more powerful than Windu - I suggest reading his respect threads:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/galen-marek-respect-thread-1647869/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/zapan87/blog/starkiller-clone-respect-thread/99783/

 

And Windu's performance against Sidious was circumstantial. His emotional state led him to use Vaapad to an extent he had never done before, and he had the vast powerful of Darth Sidious to channel.

 

So why can't he use that against Starkiller? By the way are you talking clone or original?

[Jarons]

So why can't he use that against Starkiller? By the way are you talking clone or original?

We usually refer to the clone as Starkiller and the original Galen marek.

[cs_zoltan]

Classic skill vs power matchup.

 

Windu is a drastically more skilled lightsaber duelist to the point it's almost funny. ANH Vader was roughly equal to ANH Kenobi, who was a shadow of his RotS self, who was still inferior to RotS Windu. Starkiller was a worse duelist than TFU II Vader who was holding back.

Windu also knows every form Starkiller has, and then some. He is confirmed master of every fighting technique of the Jedi Order.

 

On the other hand Starkiller is a lot more powerful, but it will only show itself in physicals, precog, and TK, since Mace can counter Lightning.

Starkiller's only physical feats are being slower than Shaak Ti pre-prime, contending Vader twice, staggering Vader, and hijacking an Y-wing. Him staggering Vader was under Force Rage though, and him contending with Vader was circumstantial, first time he beat Vader with Dun Moch, second time Vader was holding back.

While Starkiller being more powerful suggest he has better physicals, Mace is no slouch either. Mace is a duelist foremost, who doesn't like to use the Force if it's not necessary, so obviously he focused on his physicals. Proof to that, while being weakened by a dark side nexust, wounds, exhaustion, and he was heartbroken he was faster than a double amped Kar Vastor, and he could send him flying once with a single punch. Kar Vastor being a physical monster makes it really impressive. Oh and he was vastly pre-prime, both in timeline (it was in 22 BBY), and in mentality as well since he feared his inner darkness at this time, and his inner darkness is the fuel for Vaapad.

Also Starkiller's superior precog is countered by Mace's shatterpoint.

 

Starkiller's best tool would be TK...if he'd actually use it. For someone so damn powerful he barely use his Alter powers in combat. Seems like Vader's style rubbed off on him, and he approaches combat with his lightsaber. When that fails, he goes with Lightning. The only instance I recall when he used TK is against Kota, who could still partially turn back his Force Choke. I doubt he could ragdoll Mace, so his TK is almost irrelevant. And his lightning is countered by Vaapad.

 

As for the arena, Starkiller rarely utilize them. He seems to have some form of Sokan, trying to seek the high ground against Shaak Ti, but even that almost backfired since she was there ahead of him. And yet again he never seems to capitalize on his TK regarding the environment. Mace on the other hand is a master of Sokan, and he successfully used it against Sidious and Talzin.

 

Overall I'm going with Mace based on their morals/mentality. If Starkiller would be a TK first ask questions later kind of guy he could win, but he isn't. Not even close. He'll try to duel it out, and in that field Mace is the clear superior.

[cs_zoltan]

*********** maintenance almost ate my post.

[Jarons]

Okay I know he took down a destroyer but he had to have time to concentrate do you have time to focus like that in a duel. Do anybody thinks you have time for that? While Mace did killed a army of droids with the force without the charging time. You have to keep this in mind if it takes time to concentrate to use then its useless in a duel. Does anyone disagrees with this?

Now if you know about star wars you will know that Mace Windu is very very fast if there is edge Starkiller has it a slight edge and in endurance there is no edge he prove that when he destroyed a entire droid army with his fists. If you ever did any kind of martial arts in your life you will understand that its exhausting in a couple of minutes you will start to sweat another couple of minutes and you will feel the effects on your body. The sheer amount of force you use to punch someone adds to the shock you receive and its not easy to take do that hundreds of times and you will see what I mean. If you never did martial arts take splitting firewood with a axe after you cut about 50 you will feel pain in your arms. That is wood take punching trough metal for hundreds of times.

Windu is a beast and I do not believe he will be overwhelmed he has just too much endurance.

 

About lighting its gonna be like with Sidious its gonna be blocked and sent back sorry but yeah so that is a non issue. And for Vader did you forgot that Vader trained Starkiller and had quite a number of duels before trust me Starkiller know how to fight Vader and win he knows his style and his weakness as Obi Won knew that of Anakin.

That's not what you said you said he nothing exceptional as a Force user and I counter your point he beyond Exceptional as a Force user and again.He had time against Vader so he will have time against Windu.He killed a army of Droids with the force as well and even faster than Mace so that would put him above Windu in that department.Dude not thinking in a Duel will get you killed both with have time to concentrate and Starkiller won't need that much time.Don't forgot their 25 meters away from each other so starkiller will have time to abuse him with the force.Not to mention Mace doesn't start going all out look at the Talzan and first ventress fight he checked out his opponents skills first before going all out and he will do the same here.Which will be a deathly mistake Starkiller will press his advantage hard and push Windu into the Corner.

 

Dude Starkiller Endurance feat surpasses his.He fought their a space station and took on kota he fought their the Death star and than fought Vader and the Emperor.He survived2 weeks only on the force.Starkiller has better endurance and will outlast him.

 

You can't say that for certain with the lightening thing Starkiller incorporates lightening attacks with his saber strikes and Sid was pushed back against a wall the lightening had no where to go.Their in a very open space Here and the lightening can go anywhere.Don't forgot Windu almost dropped his lightsaber because it was to strong for him the same could happened here we don't know.

 

 

Side note:Beni if OCW feats are allowed can we use game feats for Starkiller?

[PadsterPwns]

Don't forgot Windu almost dropped his lightsaber because it was to strong for him the same could happened here we don't know.

 

I don't think Starkiller's lightning would be powerful enough to do this but then again he has some feats that indicate extreme potency. Personally I don't think it would be powerful enough but meh.

[Jarons]

I don't think Starkiller's lightning would be powerful enough to do this but then again he has some feats that indicate extreme potency. Personally I don't think it would be powerful enough but meh.

Am disappointed in your lack of Faith my dear padawan.

 

He killed a Rancor with it brah give him enough time let's say 10-30 seconds I think Mace would give in.

 

Starkiller has a good chance of winning this in my opinion.

[PadsterPwns]

Am disappointed in your lack of Faith my dear padawan.

 

He killed a Rancor with it brah give him enough time let's say 10-30 seconds I think Mace would give in.

 

Starkiller has a good chance of winning this in my opinion.

Starkiller does have a range advantage at first but I'm not sure if he'll use it as, AFAIK, Starkiller doesn't try to overpower his foes straight away, he usually tries to duel them first and then overwhelm them if he's losing the duel. The problem is that against someone like Windu that likely won't work as Windu is a much better duelist, a master of every form and has been shown to be a smart fighter meaning he probably won't let Starkiller make a tactical retreat. Saying this however, Windu's morals also work in Starkiller's favour as Windu likely won't go straight for the kill meaning it gives Starkiller a chance to realise he's outmatched in a duel and resort to abusing his Force power and command. Another slight edge Starkiller has is that he has fought here before so he has a battlefield advantage. With all this said I think it's an even split, though if I had to pick I'd say Windu as while his morals could mean giving Starkiller a chance to retreat, his skills and experience likely won't give opponent the chance.

[Beniboybling]

I agree with Zoltan on this one, although I think Starkiller abuses his powers more than Zoltan says, he did so to great effect during his first fight with Vader, and continued to exploit his Force lightning advantage on Kamino.

[cs_zoltan]

I agree with Zoltan on this one, although I think Starkiller abuses his powers more than Zoltan says, he did so to great effect during his first fight with Vader, and continued to exploit his Force lightning advantage on Kamino.

 

On the Death Star he mostly used the Force defensively beside a general description, and it wasn't very effective since he had to resort to Dun Moch.

On Kamino he used Lightning twice, both times when he could slip past Vader's defenses and even then it only worked the second time, and only because Vader let him. Windu having Vaapad and being a lot better duelist than TFU I & II Vader makes it unlikely Starkiller can slip under Windu's defenses or if he can it would do any good at all.

[adormitul]

That's not what you said you said he nothing exceptional as a Force user and I counter your point he beyond Exceptional as a Force user and again.He had time against Vader so he will have time against Windu.He killed a army of Droids with the force as well and even faster than Mace so that would put him above Windu in that department.Dude not thinking in a Duel will get you killed both with have time to concentrate and Starkiller won't need that much time.Don't forgot their 25 meters away from each other so starkiller will have time to abuse him with the force.Not to mention Mace doesn't start going all out look at the Talzan and first ventress fight he checked out his opponents skills first before going all out and he will do the same here.Which will be a deathly mistake Starkiller will press his advantage hard and push Windu into the Corner.

 

Dude Starkiller Endurance feat surpasses his.He fought their a space station and took on kota he fought their the Death star and than fought Vader and the Emperor.He survived2 weeks only on the force.Starkiller has better endurance and will outlast him.

 

You can't say that for certain with the lightening thing Starkiller incorporates lightening attacks with his saber strikes and Sid was pushed back against a wall the lightening had no where to go.Their in a very open space Here and the lightening can go anywhere.Don't forgot Windu almost dropped his lightsaber because it was to strong for him the same could happened here we don't know.

 

 

Side note:Beni if OCW feats are allowed can we use game feats for Starkiller?

Well here is the problem we are talking about the clone who did not took down a star destroyer are we not. Also the clone is pure rage he does not know to use the light side the prefect opponent for Windu who has a advantage against dark force users.

In the novel the star destroyer was already crashing Starkiller just redirected where it will fall. Now talking about the clone his dark rage is impressive and has a force repulse so strong that it can rip apart others but again it takes time and in a duel you do not get minutes to concentrate and yes you have to give up what your doing and channel your power.

There is no duel where such a chance was give no duel either in the movies, comics, novels and video games enemies just do not give you time to channel anything.

Look at Shan vs Malgus she could only use her very powerful force push because somebody gave her enough time to charge.

Starkiller can make force pushes that for average jedi take time to charge to be so strong he can do them immediately but so can Windu. And his telekinesis can be very strong only when he uses dark rage yes can crush walkers with it but walkers do not have force shields and do not have Windu's speed.