Unofficial SWTOR Duelling Tournament: Jarons vs Raandomname

[cs_zoltan]

“Who will be the winners? Who will be the corpses? Audience, place your bets!”

 

Team Jarons vs Team Raandomname

Starkiller & Reborn Krayt vs Cade Skywalker, Mara Jade Skywalker & Ben Skywalker

 

Welcome to this friendly match. For anyone new to the tournament, please look over the rules first before participating, and those who are familiar, you may wish to remind yourselves of how it all works.

 

The Battleground: Kamino Cloning Facility

 

Combatants start on two adjacent platforms in the middle.

 

Rules of the Debate

 

 

1. Victory by killing, KO’ing or otherwise incapacitating all of the opposing team.
    
    
   
2. Combatants cannot hide or flee, though tactical retreats or attempts to lure the opponent are permitted.
    
    
   
3. Combatant morals and personality traits apply, however they are all ready and willing to kill their opponents.
    
    
   
4. All combatants are equipped with their standard arms and armament.
    
    
   
5. Combatants do not possess any prior knowledge of their opponents beyond what they already know. But they are aware of the names of their combatants which are announced immediately before the fight.
    
    
   
6. Any and all external Force nexuses or amplifiers are for the purposes of debate non-existent.
    
    
   
7. Game mechanics are to be treated as canon, unless they exist purely for gameplay purposes.
    
    
   
8. No flaming, trolling or aggressive debating, keep it chill people.
   

 

So without further ado, let the battle begin!

[cs_zoltan]

I was lazy so copy pasted, inb4 Beni reports me for copyright infringement. Edited December 6, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Jarons]

Random You can go first buddy.

[raandomname]

Random You can go first buddy.

 

Alright. Here we go then!

 

Disclaimer: Didnt have much time to research, so some of this is from memory, apologies for any inacuracies.

 

Cade vs Krayt;

 

Well Cade killed Krayt once already, so not much to say there is.

But honestly, as you yourself had him on your last team, youll know what a beast Cade is. He probably slaughtered dozens of One Sith and more impressively One Sith Troopers, presented by Krayt as the ultimate fighting force in the galaxy and so powerful that he chose to completely indoctrinate them, turning them into his mindless slaves to ensure that they wouldnt turn against him. The fact that Krayt saw them as a potential threat really demonstrates their power and yet Cade crushed them. As a former smuggler/pirate/bounty hunter you can also be sure that Cade will fight dirty and bring out a few tricks to catch Krayt by suprise.

 

Mara vs Starkiller:

 

I think Mara's main advantage here is her unorthodoxy. She has several decades more of experience than Starkiller and has done pretty much everything that can give you experience in fighting, having been a spy and assassin, a pirate and smuggler, a bounty hunter (iirc) and a Jedi master. In combat she employs a wide variety of tools and tricks, weapons, gadgets, tactics, cunning and patience to defeat her opponent.

Starkiller in contrast is pretty much as predictable as it gets, charging straight at his oppoents and demolishing them with overwhelming force and lightsaber attacks. He never really encountered an opponent who fights dirty and his inexperience with this type of fighting and his impatience will make him run straight into Mara's traps.

His force powers wont save him either; if Caedus couldnt overpower Mara with the force, Starkiller cant either. Of course he is a much stronger force user, but Mara is smart, skilled and experienced enough to evade or mitigate his force attacks.

 

Then of course we have Ben as support: the son of the most powerful force user of all times and a powerful Jedi in his own right, experienced from fighting in the Second Galactic Civil War and fighting the Lost Tribe of the Sith and Abeloth. He is skilled enough to easily defeat Sith Swords, was able to do at least some damage to Abeloth and was a skilled enough force user to learn new force techniques at a similar speed to Luke. Hell certainly be there to tip the scalws of any unfavorable engagement.

 

Not to mention the Skywalkers' team work will be a million times better.

[Jarons]

Alright. Here we go then!

 

Disclaimer: Didnt have much time to research, so some of this is from memory, apologies for any inacuracies.

 

Cade vs Krayt;

 

Well Cade killed Krayt once already, so not much to say there is.

But honestly, as you yourself had him on your last team, youll know what a beast Cade is. He probably slaughtered dozens of One Sith and more impressively One Sith Troopers, presented by Krayt as the ultimate fighting force in the galaxy and so powerful that he chose to completely indoctrinate them, turning them into his mindless slaves to ensure that they wouldnt turn against him. The fact that Krayt saw them as a potential threat really demonstrates their power and yet Cade crushed them. As a former smuggler/pirate/bounty hunter you can also be sure that Cade will fight dirty and bring out a few tricks to catch Krayt by suprise.

Well technically he didn't kill him he came back from the dead.Also he only Won because of a Cheat Shot that he got off while Krayt was distracted.

 

Well Now as this two have fought more than once with Krayt even training Cade in the Ways of the Dark side their know each other very well and the other capabilities.Something you can not disagree with me is that Krayt is the overall better fighter and Force user in this match.He has over 100 years of Experience combating Force users and non Force users.He has Completely destroyed a Squad of Imperial Knights who have created 2 Forms to better fight as a team and he defeated them in seconds.He is a master of Force lightening being able to wrap his Lightening around Darth Talon body he can manipulate his force Lightening to utterly Immobilize Cade while he deal with his ancestors.Reborn Krayt powered was said to have doubled after death and he already was the Top dog of the One Sith.Who Number 2 Darth Wrylock the Third Force lightening could Destroy Stone pillars.Than their Darth Nihi who one Shooted Cade Father.Kraty is said to be stronger than both of them pre-Prime.

 

Now something else I should bring up Remember Luke Final Fight with The Site sprit Abeloth?Krayt was the one who help Luke Defeat the Creature.One of the most important Quote from that battle was from Jacen Solo.(Sell posted it in the most powerful thread am get it in a bit.)

The quote was that Jacen saw Kraty and could see how powerful the Sith was and to stop him he accepted the Dark side to become more powerful. Finally he even admitted he wasn't strong enough to stop Krayt.If Jacen solo couldn't defeat this man when he was Pretty primed What chance does your team have?

 

Mara vs Starkiller:

 

I think Mara's main advantage here is her unorthodoxy. She has several decades more of experience than Starkiller and has done pretty much everything that can give you experience in fighting, having been a spy and assassin, a pirate and smuggler, a bounty hunter (iirc) and a Jedi master. In combat she employs a wide variety of tools and tricks, weapons, gadgets, tactics, cunning and patience to defeat her opponent.

Starkiller in contrast is pretty much as predictable as it gets, charging straight at his oppoents and demolishing them with overwhelming force and lightsaber attacks. He never really encountered an opponent who fights dirty and his inexperience with this type of fighting and his impatience will make him run straight into Mara's traps.

His force powers wont save him either; if Caedus couldnt overpower Mara with the force, Starkiller cant either. Of course he is a much stronger force user, but Mara is smart, skilled and experienced enough to evade or mitigate his force attacks.

 

Then of course we have Ben as support: the son of the most powerful force user of all times and a powerful Jedi in his own right, experienced from fighting in the Second Galactic Civil War and fighting the Lost Tribe of the Sith and Abeloth. He is skilled enough to easily defeat Sith Swords, was able to do at least some damage to Abeloth and was a skilled enough force user to learn new force techniques at a similar speed to Luke. Hell certainly be there to tip the scalws of any unfavorable engagement.

 

Not to mention the Skywalkers' team work will be a million times better.

Now i wkll admit Mara Jade Track record is impressive none of this will allow her to survive against Starkiller.She has never faced anyone like him before he is a straight Wrecking Ball in the force.He will over power her to a new level.Let's compare Ceadus attacks to what Starkiller will do.Let's use Game mechanics,Ceadus used more single Target attacks against Her which are easier to dodge but hit harder.Starkiller is different he used more AOE attacks and sometimes his Single Targets turn into AOE because of how powerful they are.You can't dodge a AOE ability as easily as a Single Target.This is where Starkiller will just completely over whelm her when he gets tired of fighting her with his lightsaber he will use his impressive force abilities to just destroy Her where she stands.

 

Well You have a point about Ben he is strong but he is out class here.All he will do is get in the way and get himself killed.If he help Cade against Kraty he will be over powered by his incredible Dueling skills and he will get in Cade way.If he go against Star killer he will work well with his Mother but will just case Starkiller to go all out even sooner.

 

Plus Starkiller has home field Advantage here he knows the Terrain better than everyone else.He also have stronger TK he can just throw Platforms around. He will be able to just Throw debris at your team until their to exhausted to fight back.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Jarons

[raandomname]

Well technically he didn't kill him he came back from the dead.Also he only Won because of a Cheat Shot that he got off while Krayt was distracted.

 

Well Now as this two have fought more than once with Krayt even training Cade in the Ways of the Dark side their know each other very well and the other capabilities.Something you can not disagree with me is that Krayt is the overall better fighter and Force user in this match.He has over 100 years of Experience combating Force users and non Force users.He has Completely destroyed a Squad of Imperial Knights who have created 2 Forms to better fight as a team and he defeated them in seconds.He is a master of Force lightening being able to wrap his Lightening around Darth Talon body he can manipulate his force Lightening to utterly Immobilize Cade while he deal with his ancestors.Reborn Krayt powered was said to have doubled after death and he already was the Top dog of the One Sith.Who Number 2 Darth Wrylock the Third Force lightening could Destroy Stone pillars.Than their Darth Nihi who one Shooted Cade Father.Kraty is said to be stronger than both of them pre-Prime.

 

Now something else I should bring up Remember Luke Final Fight with The Site sprit Abeloth?Krayt was the one who help Luke Defeat the Creature.One of the most important Quote from that battle was from Jacen Solo.(Sell posted it in the most powerful thread am get it in a bit.)

The quote was that Jacen saw Kraty and could see how powerful the Sith was and to stop him he accepted the Dark side to become more powerful. Finally he even admitted he wasn't strong enough to stop Krayt.If Jacen solo couldn't defeat this man when he was Pretty primed What chance does your team have?

 

 

Now i wkll admit Mara Jade Track record is impressive none of this will allow her to survive against Starkiller.She has never faced anyone like him before he is a straight Wrecking Ball in the force.He will over power her to a new level.Let's compare Ceadus attacks to what Starkiller will do.Let's use Game mechanics,Ceadus used more single Target attacks against Her which are easier to dodge but hit harder.Starkiller is different he used more AOE attacks and sometimes his Single Targets turn into AOE because of how powerful they are.You can't dodge a AOE ability as easily as a Single Target.This is where Starkiller will just completely over whelm her when he gets tired of fighting her with his lightsaber he will use his impressive force abilities to just destroy Her where she stands.

 

Well You have a point about Ben he is strong but he is out class here.All he will do is get in the way and get himself killed.If he help Cade against Kraty he will be over powered by his incredible Dueling skills and he will get in Cade way.If he go against Star killer he will work well with his Mother but will just case Starkiller to go all out even sooner.

 

Plus Starkiller has home field Advantage here he knows the Terrain better than everyone else.He also have stronger TK he can just throw Platforms around. He will be able to just Throw debris at your team until their to exhausted to fight back.

Cade vs Krayt:

Krayt spent most of those 100 years in stasis.

Id argue that Cade taking apart One Sith Troopers is equally impressive to Krayt dealing with the Imp knights, especially because the OSTs are each a lot stronger then IKs.

Keep in mind that Caedus is quite an idiot and that his perspective is in no way reliable. It is also possible that the force nexus-whatever-thing was messing with him.

 

If Ben was relevant in the fights with Abeloth, he will be a factor here.

[raandomname]

Now i wkll admit Mara Jade Track record is impressive none of this will allow her to survive against Starkiller.She has never faced anyone like him before he is a straight Wrecking Ball in the force.He will over power her to a new level.Let's compare Ceadus attacks to what Starkiller will do.Let's use Game mechanics,Ceadus used more single Target attacks against Her which are easier to dodge but hit harder.Starkiller is different he used more AOE attacks and sometimes his Single Targets turn into AOE because of how powerful they are.You can't dodge a AOE ability as easily as a Single Target.This is where Starkiller will just completely over whelm her when he gets tired of fighting her with his lightsaber he will use his impressive force abilities to just destroy Her where she stands..

Alright J time to get this going again.

 

I still see little that Starkiller can do to Mara that she cant deal with. In her duel with Caedus she was able to dodge or deflect all debris that he threw at her and while his force pushes slammed her into the stone walls and pillars, she still got up every time and resumed her attack. Her force valor, endurance and pain resistance are among the strongest in the mythos and if Caedus' force push cant put her down, Starkiller's wont either. She has dealt with force lightning before, admittedly from weaker force users, but I still see no reason why she wouldnt be able to deflect or dodge it, as her agility is equal to or even greater than Caedus'.

 

Also keep in mind she will have a strong advantage once she manages to get indoors, and due to her speed and tactical skill, I believe she should be capable of achieving this. The different elevation levels of the many platforms and pillars that the platforms are attached to allow her to avoid line of sight. The rain would also act as visual cover and as a trained spy/assassin/infiltrator she would be well trained to move undetected. She would surely also be equipped with a grappling hook and climbing ropes that would allow her to travers the terrain more easily than the other combatants.

 

Once she makes it inside, she is at a clear advantage. She can set traps for Starkiller using explosives, trip-wires or whatever else crosses her mind. Her skill as a mechanic would also help. She could deactivate the lights to make it more difficult for Starkiller to notice her traps, hack security systems and turn them against Starkiller, cut him of with the doors, track him with security cameras etc.

 

At close range, Starkiller's ability to use his force powers will be limited, leaving him with no option, but to face Mara's onslaught. Her offense is strong enough to overpower Caedus although he repeatedly slamed her into walls, pillars etc. By LotF, Mara pretty much seems to match Luke in lightsaber combat which means that Starkiller, who is a much less refined duelist than his original template and relies more on pure force power rather than actual skill, is outmatched. Furthermore his Jar'kai would further reduce his ability to fend of Mara's attacks.

[Jarons]

Intresting I will post a counter and my next point later today.

[adormitul]

I wish someone will chose Galen Marek instead of Starkiller for this kind of matches. At least then I can really comment but no people keep choosing Starkiller the beast who is so full of rage and predictable unlike Galen who is a tactical genius in combat who know how to use his the best strategy to defeat his enemies not overpower them like Starkiller

I mean in this case what happens if he can not overpower his enemy like Mara Jade he loses but Galen Marek well he will try to find the weakness of his enemy and if the enemy does not have then he will make one.

[Jarons]

I wish someone will chose Galen Marek instead of Starkiller for this kind of matches. At least then I can really comment but no people keep choosing Starkiller the beast who is so full of rage and predictable unlike Galen who is a tactical genius in combat who know how to use his the best strategy to defeat his enemies not overpower them like Starkiller

I mean in this case what happens if he can not overpower his enemy like Mara Jade he loses but Galen Marek well he will try to find the weakness of his enemy and if the enemy does not have then he will make one.

They are the same person.The same with Galen Merek the clone Starkiller fallback on his force abilities to win battles if he can not win with his lightsaber.I will get more into this when i post my counter to Random post.

[adormitul]

They are the same person.The same with Galen Merek the clone Starkiller fallback on his force abilities to win battles if he can not win with his lightsaber.I will get more into this when i post my counter to Random post.

 

Not their not Starkiller has that problem with the rage that he could not overcome like using Dun Moch for example hey in the novels the difference is clear Galen Marek is way calmer and can made the right tactic. Do not forget only one of them really defeated Vader.

Edited December 26, 2015 by adormitul

[PadsterPwns]

Not their not Starkiller has that problem with the rage that he could not overcome like using Dun Moch for example hey in the novels the difference is clear Galen Marek is way calmer and can made the right tactic. Do not forget only one of them really defeated Vader.

The Vader that Marek defeated was 20 years (at least) pre-prime.

[adormitul]

The Vader that Marek defeated was 20 years (at least) pre-prime.

 

How is that even possible? The empire lasted for about 23 years the same year Anakin became Vader at the begining of the empire Garek Malek who was born at the begining of the Galactic Republic 19 BBY. Galen Maerk died in 2 BBY and 6 years later Vader died at the battle of Endor.

What are you all talking about?

Where did such a wrong information even start I heard it so much how can people believe it.

Edited December 26, 2015 by adormitul

[Jarons]

How is that even possible? The empire lasted for about 23 years the same year Anakin became Vader at the begining of the empire Garek Malek who was born at the begining of the Galactic Republic 19 BBY. Galen Maerk died in 2 BBY and 6 years later Vader died at the battle of Endor.

What are you all talking about?

Where did such a wrong information even start I heard it so much how can people believe it.

It really doesn't matter Galen Merek defeated a Vader who hasn't even gotten used to his suit yet and still pre primed.Vader primed was during ROTJ.Starkiller stalemated a Much powerful Vader which is a better feat than defeating a weaker version of a character who grow way stronger.Starkiller is stronger than Galen get over it the feats and accolades surpasses the original.

[cs_zoltan]

The Vader that Marek defeated was 20 years (at least) pre-prime.

 

Only 6. And it was through Dun Möch.

Edited December 26, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[PadsterPwns]

It really doesn't matter Galen Merek defeated a Vader who hasn't even gotten used to his suit yet and still pre primed.Vader primed was during ROTJ.Starkiller stalemated a Much powerful Vader which is a better feat than defeating a weaker version of a character who grow way stronger.Starkiller is stronger than Galen get over it the feats and accolades surpasses the original.

I think the 20 years thing was his Kessel feat, so sorry if that caused confusion.

 

Besides this is really off-topic.

[PadsterPwns]

Only 6. And it was through Dun Möch.

I confused it with the Kessel feat.

[adormitul]

It really doesn't matter Galen Merek defeated a Vader who hasn't even gotten used to his suit yet and still pre primed.Vader primed was during ROTJ.Starkiller stalemated a Much powerful Vader which is a better feat than defeating a weaker version of a character who grow way stronger.Starkiller is stronger than Galen get over it the feats and accolades surpasses the original.

 

So in a year Vader advanced so much? Because it was a year difference between the death of Galen Marek and Starkiller who Vader let him win. For gods sake this was a man who was 46 years old when he died and looked like 60 and you tell me that he was stronger then he was 6 years ago when he fought Galen Marek. The dude who lost to Luke because he could not focus and was distracted? That was Vader's peak?

 

Okay this is why I think Starkiller clone and Galen Marek should not be the same person as the clone can not use all the abilities the original can like Dun Moch. Yes I say that they should be different people because of that.

You all know how Mara Jade was killed right?

Edited December 26, 2015 by adormitul

[Jarons]

So in a year Vader advanced so much? Because it was a year difference between the death of Galen Marek and Starkiller who Vader let him win. For gods sake this was a man who was 46 years old when he died and looked like 60 and you tell me that he was stronger then he was 6 years ago when he fought Galen Marek. The dude who lost to Luke because he could not focus and was distracted? That was Vader's peak?

Yes that's what we are telling you because that's how it is.Don't forgot Luke is the strongest Jedi to ever Live and few can stack up against him.Yes that Year Vader grew much stronger than he was when they originally fought.Vader is a beast and trained his body to its limits daily.Not to mentioned Vader would rekt the entire OR jedi council and the Dark Council with realitive ease .

 

to your edit just because we haven't seen him use it doesn't mean he can't he choice not to.Plus the Author thought they would be able to explain it in the third game/Novel but wasn't able to.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Jarons

[adormitul]

Yes that's what we are telling you because that's how it is.Don't forgot Luke is the strongest Jedi to ever Live and few can stack up against him.Yes that Year Vader grew much stronger than he was when they originally fought.Vader is a beast and trained his body to its limits daily.Not to mentioned Vader would rekt the entire OR jedi council and the Dark Council with realitive ease .

 

to your edit just because we haven't seen him use it doesn't mean he can't he choice not to.Plus the Author thought they would be able to explain it in the third game/Novel but wasn't able to.

 

I know what I read and he can not use it he was in rage in so much rage but it could be used against him. He knew that if he used Dun Moch he could have defeated Vader but he did not why because he could not calm himself enough to use it. But Dun Moch was used against him and if Vader did not want to lose would have killed Starkiller.

Just because it was a reason he could not use it it still means he can not use it. And because of that Galen Marek and Starkiller clone where not the same person so Starkiller could not defeat Mara Jade because that women was tough as tough can get and if you do not use Dun Moch you can not defeat her. Jacen Solo knew that.

 

And about Vader I am sure his right arm really benefited from the increase training and also the abs and I am sure his non existent lungs benefited from the harsh training and he had more endurance not because he was a freaking cyborg that could not live without his suit. What training do you think that shell of a man can do to become stronger. The only thing he can do is get better cybernetic implants. And Luka when he defeated Vader was not stronger then any jedi ever but Vader was not as his best.

He pushed his body at its limit daily so what does that helps you with anything when a huge chunk of your muscles are gone and you have no lungs.

 

Edited December 26, 2015 by adormitul

[cs_zoltan]

I confused it with the Kessel feat.

 

Shame on you ******...

[cs_zoltan]

So in a year Vader advanced so much? Because it was a year difference between the death of Galen Marek and Starkiller who Vader let him win. For gods sake this was a man who was 46 years old when he died and looked like 60 and you tell me that he was stronger then he was 6 years ago when he fought Galen Marek. The dude who lost to Luke because he could not focus and was distracted? That was Vader's peak?

 

Okay this is why I think Starkiller clone and Galen Marek should not be the same person as the clone can not use all the abilities the original can like Dun Moch. Yes I say that they should be different people because of that.

You all know how Mara Jade was killed right?

Starkiller is confirmed to have all the original's skills. And by feats we know he is more powerful. He didn't utilize Dun Möch to such good degree, but then again, these weren't the same duel.

 

Galen on the Death Star fought for something greater than himself. He knew every outcome of that duel, he knew he could get away alive with Juno and live a happy life. He also knew that would require him sacrificing the Rebellion. He made his choice, which we've seen in the novel. So in the end he defeated Vader through Dun Möch, because he was in a possition to do so. Vader was careless and Galen was not hindered.

In contrast in TFU II Starkiller was hindred in many way, most importantly from this point of view, mentally. He couldn't really think straight, because his hormones were raving mad. Also Vader learned his lesson on the Death Star. So it's not about Vader becoming more powerful, it's about the Clone was emotionally distraught, and Vader learns fast. He didn't make the same mistake twice.

 

If it was the original Galen who were to faced Vader on Kamino in TFU II he would've gotten stomped.

[ConVallian]

Not to mentioned Vader would rekt the entire OR jedi council and the Dark Council with realitive ease .

 

no....

[adormitul]

Starkiller is confirmed to have all the original's skills. And by feats we know he is more powerful. He didn't utilize Dun Möch to such good degree, but then again, these weren't the same duel.

 

Galen on the Death Star fought for something greater than himself. He knew every outcome of that duel, he knew he could get away alive with Juno and live a happy life. He also knew that would require him sacrificing the Rebellion. He made his choice, which we've seen in the novel. So in the end he defeated Vader through Dun Möch, because he was in a possition to do so. Vader was careless and Galen was not hindered.

In contrast in TFU II Starkiller was hindred in many way, most importantly from this point of view, mentally. He couldn't really think straight, because his hormones were raving mad. Also Vader learned his lesson on the Death Star. So it's not about Vader becoming more powerful, it's about the Clone was emotionally distraught, and Vader learns fast. He didn't make the same mistake twice.

 

If it was the original Galen who were to faced Vader on Kamino in TFU II he would've gotten stomped.

 

That is not the point the point is that he still could not use Dun Moch and because of that he can not be considered Galen Malek and Dun Moch is the only way to defeat Mara Jade. By the way Vader never learned to control his emotions look in novel for ROTJ. He just could not keep his head straight.

[raandomname]

Jarons?