Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[shawn_the_geek]

Hush your mouth Call of Duty is like nightmare mode compared to what KoTFE story was like.

 

Also when you say now do you mean after the nerf ... if so what was it like before?

I don't know about you but I have been playing the game since it launched in 2011. Back then it felt like an actual MMO. Have to keep track of both my stats as well as my companions was annoying and tedious. None of the flashpoints were soloable, and most quests were much harder than they are now.

 

They have gotten rid of most of the stat tracking and instead now use mastery and endurance as the two main stats. I haven't needed to stat track once since mastery was introduced. The flashpoints that actually matter story wise are now soloable. and KOTFE is nothing but single player content.

 

It feels like everything that made this game an MMO has either been done away with or changed since it launched in 2011. They have made it into a single player game.

[Ferretfur]

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

Okay Eric, you said you wanted to know.

 

Well, firstly, I have tried my usual set of weekly heroics with my main and most well geared character and you are correct, they are more challenging, but far from impossible, though I have not tried the Star Fortress H2 yet.

 

On the downside, I am certain that my Pre-4.0 fully geared healer was better than my new 4.0 influence rating 26 healer. I was of the impression that even with the reduction that the companions were meant to be better than before.

 

So while the reduction has not made the game impossible, I do think it ma have been a bit more significant that it should have been. With a slight increase I think that companions would be where they should be from what you have been saying. Of course, sorting out the Tank armour and Defence problems before the aggro may have been a good idea too.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Perhaps because everyone is not sharing your personal experience? Not trying to be rude, I am sorry you are having issues but that is not a universal experience.

 

Pretty much this.

[DarkSaberMaster]

But now the companions are completely useless. They are worse than with the best gear I could give them befote 4.0! They don't heal anything and are useless. Soloing content has been RUINED so I can't believe you are thankful for this nerf.

 

Sorry that I don't need the Contra cheat code to play the game. I get through solo content just fine.

[Ghisallo]

I don't know about you but I have been playing the game since it launched in 2011. Back then it felt like an actual MMO. Have to keep track of both my stats as well as my companions was annoying and tedious. None of the flashpoints were soloable, and most quests were much harder than they are now.

 

They have gotten rid of most of the stat tracking and instead now use mastery and endurance as the two main stats. I haven't needed to stat track once since mastery was introduced. The flashpoints that actually matter story wise are now soloable. and KOTFE is nothing but single player content.

 

It feels like everything that made this game an MMO has either been done away with or changed since it launched in 2011. They have made it into a single player game.

 

Well I see an issue because with a JK Guardian in vigilance you still want to track stats. There are optimal levels of alacrity and crit now... stuff like that. All MMOs have mechanically gotten a simpler (for the most part). However they are trying to find a balance. Keep the MMO players happy while make the "rules" simple enough that someone used to SP games is not overwhelmed he minute they walk in the door...a compromise of sorts.

 

What I find interesting is that in 2011 the game was annoying and tedious. They specifically stated that they were only focusing on the story "for now" and that they were going to start on new MMO "elder game" content when KOTFE dropped. So why/how is it surprising that they say "ooops made a mistake" and return some of what you call the annoying tedium.

 

Really it seems like you are upset because YOU want this to be a SP game... you felt like they were doing what YOU wanted. Now that you find out they had simply screwed up and that was not your intent you are upset. I am pretty easy. I look for games in genres I enjoy. I no longer play CoD because the days of tactical realism servers custom hosted are gone and I can't stand bunny hoping and circle straffing (that would get you kill irl). I like MMOs because what you call frustrating and tedious I find diverting.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ksen]

Interesting thing - now i run SF with Treek (infl 10) and she definitely heal better than Lana (infl 24).

Also she glitched and repeat "you underestimate me!" every second in fight.

[shawn_the_geek]

Funny because I suggested similar things around the level sync debate as a means of compromise and still got attacked over it. When it's the internet and people don't actually have to engage one another in a civil manner you'll find compromise just isn't an option.

I've never attacked you while we have been debating. The people that have attacked you over it were in the wrong. I hate level sync. It makes me feel like all the progress I have made leveling has been flushed down the drain.

 

You shouldn't let that sour you to compromise online. Just because someone is a jerk online doesn't mean everyone is. Only reason it seems like it here is because Bioware has one of the most toxic fandoms. Let's not forget the whole ME3 ending content debacle.

Edited November 18, 2015 by shawn_the_geek

[Ferretfur]

And people said never trust datamined information lol. Anyways, thanks for trying to reel back in the companions devs. 50-75% was too much, but a nerf was definitely needed. Playing the game in God mode is only fun the first time around.

 

Yes, this was too much if it is true. 50% reduction should have been the maximum and then see how the game was; going for overkill from the start is not a balanced reaction.

[Zanriel]

Here's my feedback:

 

It's sapped a lot of my enthusiasm for the game. I was having an absolute blast playing and couldn't get enough. Now I think about doing other stuff. If you wanted me to not want to play as much, you've succeeded.

[Ghisallo]

I've never attacked you while we have been debating. The people that have attacked you over it were in the wrong. I hate level sync. It makes me feel like all the progress I have made leveling has been flushed down the drain.

 

You shouldn't let that sour you to compromise online. Just because someone is a jerk online doesn't mean everyone is. Only reason it seems like it here is because Bioware has one of the most toxic fandoms. Let's not forget the whole ME3 ending content debacle.

 

The problem is compromise can only go so far as the ruls of the nation/Universe/Genre permit. You compromise for the game works well because it creates a SP player experience you desire. The problem is that experience is actually damaging to the MMORPG persistent world.

 

The fact you believe, and apparently want, this game to be a SP game explains the reason you see you idea of compromise as a good thing BUT it would only be a good thing for the players that want the "pure" SP experience with a difficulty slider, not for the game itself as it is not a SP game but an MMORPG and as such requires a level of consistency and parity in the mechanics of the persistent world that all of the players share.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[shawn_the_geek]

Well I see an issue because with a JK Guardian in vigilance you still want to track stats. There are optimal levels of alacrity and crit now... stuff like that. All MMOs have mechanically gotten a simpler (for the most part). However they are trying to find a balance. Keep the MMO players happy while make the "rules" simple enough that someone used to SP games is not overwhelmed he minute they walk in the door...a compromise of sorts.

 

What I find interesting is that in 2011 the game was annoying and tedious. They specifically stated that they were only focusing on the story "for now" and that they were going to start on new MMO "elder game" content when KOTFE dropped. So why/how is it surprising that they say "ooops made a mistake" and return some of what you call the annoying tedium.

 

Really it seems like you are upset because YOU want this to be a SP game... you felt like they were doing what YOU wanted. Now that you find out they had simply screwed up and that was not your intent you are scrambling.

Except they HAVE turned it into a single player game. Every aspect besides OPs and Tactical flashpoints can be soloed. A player can do everything story related without ever having to group up. Ops and Tactical flashpoints don't matter story wise. The elder game content isn't going to matter story wise either when it drops.

 

Look at WoW. Killing Arthas/The Lich King is a major thing story wise and it can't be soloed. In here you can fight Revan without needing to group up. That's my point. It's not an MMO anymore. It's a SP game with MP elements. The MP elements are worthless to people that don't care about the side content.

 

You're wrong about me and here's why. Without OP companions this game is still easy for me. I just recently did five 2+ Heroic quests and didn't die once. I took on five golds and it was easy. I'm not doing this for me. I'm advocating optional Op companions so people can play how they want and all this stupid fighting will stop.

[Zanriel]

The best way to make OP companions optional is to have Influence actually matter. It didn't before 4.0.2 and it doesn't now. It makes a very tiny difference but not enough to change the pace or feel of playing in any significant way. Now you can have a rank 50 companion and it will be WEAKER than it was in 3.0 with level appropriate gear. That's a problem.

[Ylliarus]

Perhaps because everyone is not sharing your personal experience? Not trying to be rude, I am sorry you are having issues but that is not a universal experience.

 

Not trying to be rude either, but I believe the sheer amount of threads rising up on the forums speaking negatively about the companion nerf is a clear statement I am not the only one who experiences it this way.

[Ghisallo]

Except they HAVE turned it into a single player game. Every aspect besides OPs and Tactical flashpoints can be soloed.

 

Did you read what you just posted... "...Every aspect besides..." Then take the fact that thy stated they were focusing on the story"for now". I think you miss the point o the expansion. This expansion was not for anyone already here. If you look at the changes, the companion reset, the streamlined leveling and level sync, te auto-tune FPs THEN look at the CFO throwing down the gauntlet at the Earnings call when they spoke of SoR... this expac is about one thing only, attracting NEW players around the launch of "the Force Awakens" thats it.

 

The new player is going to come in and say "holy crap!!!!! this world is huge. Look at all the quests, even at end game!?!?! look at all of the Raids and dungeons I can do?!?!?! Holy crap!?!?! and cut scenes?!? ZOMG!!!!!!" You are looking at the game as someone who has been here for a while...where the only "real" new stuff is the stuff introduced with the Expac. For the new player however it's all new so the game will still have a definite MMO feel for a bit.

 

The CFO said that SoR attracted more people to SWTOR and they expect "even greater things" with the next expansion when the new movie launches. That is why all of this is being done. Produce and hopefully keep as many new players as possible while minimizing current player loses.

[Ksen]

After testing with my different toons end verdict for me - now it's not really fun to play.

All this grindy grind has now become very time consuming.

[Ghisallo]

Not trying to be rude either, but I believe the sheer amount of threads rising up on the forums speaking negatively about the companion nerf is a clear statement I am not the only one who experiences it this way.

 

Go to the threads and see how many people are posting on all of them. It is a rather common phenomena for people to create their own thread even when they are posting on others because they thin it will "stick out" more, vs just posting on the 92 page thread. It's one of the reasons that forums technically have rules against creating new threads on an existing topic (though the rule is rarely enforced.

 

Again that isn't to say people are not experiencing issues, I am sure they are. However the issues are NOT because the hings are impossible, period, end of story. The problem is that these games, even in the sol world, are about progression. The OP state of companions basically allowed people to bypass progression. So the person who was here because it was TOR and not an MMO were probably happy. BUT BW made this to be an MMO and now that the concept of progression...while a grind and tedious to some, has been reinstituted.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[shawn_the_geek]

The problem is compromise can only go so far as the ruls of the nation/Universe/Genre permit. You compromise for the game works well because it creates a SP player experience you desire. The problem is that experience is actually damaging to the MMORPG persistent world.

 

The fact you believe, and apparently want, this game to be a SP game explains the reason you see you idea of compromise as a good thing BUT it would only be a good thing for the players that want the "pure" SP experience with a difficulty slider, not for the game itself as it is not a SP game but an MMORPG and as such requires a level of consistency and parity in the mechanics of the persistent world that all of the players share.

The persistent world is now entirely optional. Explain to me how someone who creates a character and does nothing but class missions, solo flashpoints, and KOTFE participates or effects the persistent world.

[Ghisallo]

The persistent world is now entirely optional. Explain to me how someone who creates a character and does nothing but class missions, solo flashpoints, and KOTFE participates or effects the persistent world.

 

read my other post, I go into the methodology there. And as I said... THAT is your compromise. Want to just do that you can. Then when you reach endgame you have a new progression. I think that is really the issue, as I said above. There has ALWAYS been a progression within each expansion, even solo you could bite off more than you could chew until you got enough gear. The OP state of the companions removed this. Everyone WILL be able to do the heroic SF solo...the only thing is they will have to progress to that point.

 

Some people call this a tedious grind and don't want it BUT I think for many of the people complaining, if they grinded their way to 65 over the last 3 years, have shown to BW that that works. I get the returning or new player who may be turned off by it BUT if you have been here since the last 6 months to a year all the way back to launch...your remaining, even if you are complaining now, showed BW that it works and makes them money.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ki-Tau]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides......

 

blah blah blah etc.............

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

 

If we could log in it might be nice but seeing as some of you tards messed up the launcher it is still patching. That said, you probably swung one nerf bat too many with this. Good luck on getting a new job when we all give BW a big f'k u by unsubbing. Maybe on your next project you will all decide to listen to the people who pay for your wages - but I doubt it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ki-Tau

[Khiriath]

You do realise there is a solo mode to allow you to do the story aspect of SF right? Kind of makes the rest of your post pointless when you start it off like this ...

 

This is simply not true. Star Fortress is a three part story arc. Part 1 is a solo mode Flash Point in which you attack a star fortress but for various reasons cannot destroy it. This leads to part 2 in which you get a bunch of companions to recruit which results in a heroic 2 with said new companion wherein you destroy the shied generators that were preventing you from destroying the star fortresses themselves. Yet, to fully acquire these new companions you then have to run part 3, which is the Heroic 2 that finally destroys said Star Fortresses and liberates the planets that now new comps cared so deeply about.

 

There are in fact several specialty achievements that can be earned here, but 2 that I will mention, <One for All> doing it without the using the terminal buffs or the alliance equipment caches. Clearly this achievement is meant to be something worked toward. I was able to do it with an AP PT in 220-224 gear with a rank 21 Lana healing. For the record Lana was only putting out 980 EHPS, while my PT was getting 600(Guard Cannon Heroic Utility) and using Kolo Overload on cooldown. I may be mistaken but I don't think this is operating as intended.

 

Second achieve is <All for One> which is having access to all four Alliance Equipment Caches. Again I don't think anyone first going through this is meant to be able to do this, and thus it is an achievement that should be worked toward.

 

Which now brings us to the standard run, using the Terminal buffs. IMO, considering that this is an essential element to the story, and cosidering that Eric clearly stated on behalf of the devs:

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

This heroic, using the terminal buffs should be no more difficult to complete than any other world [Heroic 2], considering level sync. Clearly that is not the case, so clearly it is not working as intended.

 

Moving on. Let's adress specific numbers. Again in playing through the SF several times, both with the buffs and without them, Rank 21 Lana never got above 980 EHPS. For the record her EHPS before the nerf were hovering around 9k. Now even if they double between Rank 21 and rank 50(which given what a Rank 40 Lana is putting out they won't) that would only be 1960 EHPS. This cannot be working as intended. I get that they wanted the "average" player to be doing better than a comp, but an average player is, or should be hovering around 5-6k EHPS. I wouldn't take a healer that could only do 1960EHPS. Honestly I would expect, and not unreasonably that my healing comp could do at least twice the healing of my DPS specced Powertech.

 

Or take treek for instace. 3.x in the Yavin 192 comp gear was doing 3kEHPS. In 4.0, shot up to about 6k, less than other healing comps, but whatever. Now in 4.0.2 down to around 1100EFPS. So Treek, at lvl 65 and Rank 20, is doing only 1/3 the healing that lvl 60 Treek at 10k affection was doing.

 

Did companions need to be nerfed? Yes absolutely. Did they need to be nefted this much? No. This is overkill by far and away.

[shawn_the_geek]

Did you read what you just posted... "...Every aspect besides..." Then take the fact that thy stated they were focusing on the story"for now". I think you miss the point o the expansion. This expansion was not for anyone already here. If you look at the changes, the companion reset, the streamlined leveling and level sync, te auto-tune FPs THEN look at the CFO throwing down the gauntlet at the Earnings call when they spoke of SoR... this expac is about one thing only, attracting NEW players around the launch of "the Force Awakens" thats it.

 

The new player is going to come in and say "holy crap!!!!! this world is huge. Look at all the quests, even at end game!?!?! look at all of the Raids and dungeons I can do?!?!?! Holy crap!?!?! and cut scenes?!? ZOMG!!!!!!" You are looking at the game as someone who has been here for a while...where the only "real" new stuff is the stuff introduced with the Expac. For the new player however it's all new so the game will still have a definite MMO feel for a bit.

 

The CFO said that SoR attracted more people to SWTOR and they expect "even greater things" with the next expansion when the new movie launches. That is why all of this is being done. Produce and hopefully keep as many new players as possible while minimizing current player loses.

Except there isn't an MMO feel anymore except for the people that want it. There is no MMO feel when everything that matters can be soloed. Attracting new players is all fine and dandy but content should be developed for the veteran players first and foremost. New players haven't been here for years loyally playing the game. Veteran players have.

 

A new player isn't going to see that. They are going to see they can do everything that matters story wise without having to do any side content. Even with the companion downgrade and new players people still aren't doing most of the MMO aspects. On Taris today a new player was asking if I wanted to do a 2+ Heroic mission. I told him that they aren't required and to just focus on story stuff and he did.

[Nommaz]

BUT BW made this to be an MMO and now that the concept of progression...while a grind and tedious to some, has been reinstituted.

I disagree, this Expac is far more regressive than progressive, and there is literally nil reason to level to max level, not much of anything new, its mostly us being made to run thru content 4 years old and being forced down to that level to do it

Then because we were doing old content easily, they nerf the companions.

[Ki-Tau]

Not trying to be rude either, but I believe the sheer amount of threads rising up on the forums speaking negatively about the companion nerf is a clear statement I am not the only one who experiences it this way.

 

QFE - there is gonna be a disturbance in cash flow that's for dam sure

[Lord_A_]

90% nerf?! Are you insane, like as Vitiate?!

 

65% yes, good, 50% is better, but 90% is insane. Where is my gateway? I want to kill all my companion, because they are like as decoration right now.

[Ghisallo]

I disagree, this Expac is far more regressive than progressive, and there is literally nil reason to level to max level, not much of anything new, its mostly us being made to run thru content 4 years old and being forced down to that level to do it

Then because we were doing old content easily, they nerf the companions.

 

Well part f the "regressive" feel is due to the fact they basically did a soft reset (companions most obvious example, losing gear and needing to get affection etc) so the new player going "new movie!!!!! video game whaaaat?!?!?" when he uses his "free level 60" is not behind. Once you take that into account, the need for gearing up and the grind... "progressing" through it, is real enough.