PVP matches for companions NEED to count WINS only!

[branmakmuffin]

And we are by making this thread, hoping EAware will see what is going on and force these people to choose to play to win.

That is not going to happen. You cannot force people to "play to win." And even if it did happen, it would just prolong your agony and theirs because they would be forced (in their minds) to do even more WZs. What might happen is the removal of the PvP gate.

 

So I can assume you are in favor of disallowing losses to count towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right? People should only be rewarded for winning, right, not for simply showing up, right?

Edited November 14, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[DomiSotto]

Well, it's not 20 wins, actually, just 10 under the current system.

 

If they needed wins, the PvP premades would have a source of income. Pay a mil, and we'll carry you to 10 wins in one night!

 

Hey, there is an opportunity there. At least you'd know which guy is the kinder surprise.

[DarkSaberMaster]

That is not going to happen. You cannot force people to "play to win." And even if it did happen, it would just prolong your agony and theirs because they would be forced (in their minds) to do even more WZs. What might happen is the removal of the PvP gate.

 

So I can assume you are in favor of disallowing losses to count towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right? People should only be rewarded for winning, right, not for simply showing up, right?

 

I'll continue to bite. No. It may not work to force them to play to win. I'm pretty sure the majority will just say **** it and not bother.

 

And to your question, yes. I'm all in favor of wins for the weekly/daily. I don't expect to show up to an OP/FP and fail to kill the final boss and get the rewards. Good job in in trying to assume that I follow a double standard

[branmakmuffin]

I'll continue to bite. No. It may not work to force them to play to win. I'm pretty sure the majority will just say **** it and not bother.

You clearly do not understand the power of MMO players' pseudo-OCD. No they would not say "F it" and not bother. "Wins only" would simply prolong their (self-perceived) misery and your annoyance at having unwanted players cluttering up your WZs.

 

And to your question, yes. I'm all in favor of wins for the weekly/daily. I don't expect to show up to an OP/FP and fail to kill the final boss and get the rewards. Good job in in trying to assume that I follow a double standard

So you have made posts supporting removing losses counting towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right?

[DarkSaberMaster]

You clearly do not understand the power of MMO players' pseudo-OCD. No they would not say "F it" and not bother. "Wins only" would simply prolong their (self-perceived) misery and your annoyance at having unwanted players cluttering up your WZs.

 

 

So you have made posts supporting removing losses counting towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right?

 

No. I haven't. But as I asked before. Why are you even here when you don't give a damn about PvP in one way or the other? You've never made a post in the PvP forum in all the time you have been here from what I can remember. Why now? Seriously. I'm curious because I want to believe that it isn't trolling. But your history says otherwise.

[branmakmuffin]

No. I haven't.

So it was only my suggestion that you might be being disingenuous that prompted you to say you are opposed to losses counting towards WZ Weekly and Daily. If you truly feel that way, then at least you are being intellectually honest on that issue.

 

On that tangent, what's your take on how the PvP community in general feels about losses counting towards the WZ Weekly and Daily? If they also are going to be intellectually honest, then, when they call for only wins to count for Pierce and 4X, they should also, like you, be opposed to losses counting towards the Weekly and Daily.

Edited November 14, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[ScarletBlaze]

Cut your losses and live without 2 companions or play the game correctly.

 

In case you haven't read the dev's post regarding this, its not the 2 companions that most of us have a problem with. It is the fact that if you don't do the mission you are locked out of other companions in the futrue. That is the problem, not the two companions. I could do without them but the way bioware has done this it makes it impossible for you not to do these missions and move forward on the alerts.

 

Will I need to complete currently available alert Missions to unlock future alert Missions?

As of right now, the answer to this is yes. Inside of each Alliance Companion type (Military, Underworld, etc), the Companion recruitment alerts are very much looked at like a Mission chain. Generally, you must complete one alert Mission before you will receive the next. Note that you only need to complete the Mission itself, not necessarily recruit any Companion associated with it. There may be exceptions to this later on, for story reasons, but this is the general rule right now. It is worth noting that this is something the dev team is talking about, so it could change, but this is how it works right now.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8610889#edit8610889

 

 

This is the major problem. They are locking other companions behind these mission so if you don't do it then you are locked out of the missions and out of content. There is no way around it. We can't reject a companion.

 

Sort of like if you want Lokin, you have to go and do the mission on Qyzen, whether or not you want him so the alliance speciialist is not locked and can send more alerts.

 

This is what bioware has done. They have not given a way for us to reject a companion and move forward.

 

 

Just for the record: I do not have any intention of hiding or goign afk, not the way I was raised but I do hate the fact I have to do something I truly abhor just so I can move forward on my alerts and not be locked out.

Edited November 14, 2015 by ScarletBlaze

[DarkSaberMaster]

So it was only my suggestion that you might be being disingenuous that prompted you to say you are opposed to losses counting towards WZ Weekly and Daily. If you truly feel that way, then at least you are being intellectually honest on that issue.

 

On that tangent, what's your take on how the PvP community in general feels about losses counting towards the WZ Weekly and Daily? If they also are going to be intellectually honest, then, when they call for only wins to count for Pierce and 4X, they should also, like you, be opposed to losses counting towards the Weekly and Daily.

 

I answered your question. Answer mine. Or are you going to keep evading it by coming after me with more questions?

[BiggerChickens]

so you dont mess up the matches for those who actually care maybe? would u invite ppl in full pvp gear to your HM OPS group ? no ofc you wouldnt. unfortunately we´re not givien the choice to boot you out of a WZ.

 

So, a few points here.

 

First, I thought that the Forex matches were in the "Unranked" category. Maybe that doesn't mean what I think it means (my name is not Inigo Montoya!) but maybe this actually leads us to a solution. Perhaps there should be a "Competitive" PvP category, and then a "Dip-your-toe-in-the-water-to-see-what-it's-about" category. Put the Forex people into the latter pool, and then the people who "actually care" into a separate competitive pool.

 

In a way, I thought that I was already in the "Dip-your-toes" pool, both by being on an RP server rather than on a PvP server and by playing in unranked matches. I'll elaborate on this point in just a moment.

 

...unfortunately we´re not givien the choice to boot you out of a WZ

 

True. And, as several people have said, no one forced me to want Forex as a companion. But on the other hand, if I am so bad at PvP that I'm ruining your vibe, it's also fair for me to say that I didn't force you not to simply quit the match. To put this another way, why complain about people not being very good at PvP on a roleplay server? I wouldn't go to a roleplay server and expect people to remain fully in character at all times or to make me care about their characters.

 

(Note: This is not to say that you are playing on a roleplay server. However, I have seen players actively complain about PvErs in the Warzones playing on The Ebon Hawk, so it's a question I direct more generally at them.)

 

The second point is that I never really check people's gear during Ops, and don't worry overmuch about how people are performing in them. Either my group succeeds (Yippee!) or all of our little cartoon guys die and we have to start over or give up. To be fair, though, I know that a lot of people do care about those things, and I feel the same way about their approach to missions as I do to people who are heavily invested in PvP: if it's fun for them, groovy, right up until the point that they start yelling at people for failing to perform up to their standards. It doesn't even matter if they aren't yelling at me. It's just not fun to be around.

 

Third (and I realize that I am in the wrong forum, and possibly the wrong game for this), but I came to SWTOR looking for a place to roleplay. Getting a chance to RP in this universe has been fascinating. I ended up playing the game much, much more than I ever expected to.

 

I don't pay my sub to wetnurse PVE'rs. I could not give a flying toss if these people never set foot in a warzone again.

 

Is this the person I am supposed to feel bad about failing to support? Full disclosure, I did not just stand around during my matches. I ran headlong into the fray, swung my lightsaber at everything I could, and even used all the PvP-only stims and adrenals I had somehow acquired during play. So...for those of you who padded their stats by killing my toon repeatedly during these events...you're welcome!

 

PvE ppl have never been a factor for a games state of health. just look at the server selection screen and look at all the dead servers.

 

I just looked at the server list right now. Right now, The Bastion, Prophecy of the Five, and Jung Ma all have "Light" Population. The other servers are all standard. What do the sparsely populated servers have in common? They are PvP servers. The RP and PvE communities seem to be carrying the game along, though.

 

You're welcome again!

 

And not trying to be rude. But why are you even here in the PvP forums? You don't PvP. You can't stand it.

 

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I came in here because it was where the "What is wrong with the Forex quest" thread was active. I wanted to chime in.

 

My point is, if you took the time to be a good PvEer (OPs, FPs, Dailys), then there isn't any excuse for you not to be able to gear or perform for PvP.

 

The chief difference, of course, is that I wanted to be good at the PvE. I enjoyed that part of the game, and knew that I wanted to do it again. I knew that I wanted to play through all 8 of the storylines, and consequently I needed to at least have a rudimentary understanding of the stats, equipment, and abilities to get through.

 

Conversely, my experience with PvP, both in this game, and in others, is generally not a lot of fun. It's not that I don't think that it could be fun with a group of friends in a closed setting where no one's ego was too tied up in it. But it's not fun in a setting where there is a gaping disparity in ability, especially when playing with people who are really invested in the matches and not at all shy about expressing their disapproval of some people's performance.

 

Which brings me back to my point above about a "Dip-your-foot-in-the-pool" category. Starting the PvP experience with an 8 on 8 melee with complete strangers is not conducive to getting people to enjoy it, especially if some of the people are heavily invested in the match and have played a lot before.

 

I'm teaching my sons to play basketball. I didn't take them to a park with a bunch of more experienced players and tell them to get out there. I showed them how to shoot in the driveway. I taught them to dribble and showed them some ball-handling drills. We play some one on one. The games are always close.

 

Eventually, we graduated to some two-on-two and three-on-three games. Now they play with their friends. Some day, I suspect, they will play competitively five-on-five, but maybe they won't. Either way, I think they have a better chance of enjoying basketball someday than if they had just been pushed onto a court, summarily destroyed, and then, just for fun, have someone tell them how bad they were at the game.

 

I get that BioWare wanted to encourage people who might not be inclined to at least check out PvP. But I also think that it could have been implemented substantially better with smaller groups, groups that were more stratified based on PvP experience and enthusiasm, and, ideally some kind of coaching at the end telling me what I did wrong, rather than, "You died 47 times."

[Flintfire]

That is not going to happen. You cannot force people to "play to win." And even if it did happen, it would just prolong your agony and theirs because they would be forced (in their minds) to do even more WZs. What might happen is the removal of the PvP gate.

 

So I can assume you are in favor of disallowing losses to count towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right? People should only be rewarded for winning, right, not for simply showing up, right?

 

Notice no one is agreeing with you, you're only being toxic and cynical. You are defending behavior that is essentially making teams lose on purpose and expect everyone to drop on their knees and agree with you?

 

We are just trying to present constructive criticism to Bioware about our experiences and you trolling is not helping the situation.

[Salakast]

That is not going to happen. You cannot force people to "play to win." And even if it did happen, it would just prolong your agony and theirs because they would be forced (in their minds) to do even more WZs. What might happen is the removal of the PvP gate.

 

So I can assume you are in favor of disallowing losses to count towards the WZ Weekly and Daily, right? People should only be rewarded for winning, right, not for simply showing up, right?

 

Bioware can and should force players to "play to win". All they need to do is change the requirement to x WZ matches completed where you get y or more medals, and anyone who wants to complete the companion quest would be forced to compete. They'd need to make it high enough that you couldn't get there with node-camping or cheese self-healing, but it would fit the criteria 'Force people to play to win'

[Icykill_]

Notice no one is agreeing with you, you're only being toxic and cynical. You are defending behavior that is essentially making teams lose on purpose and expect everyone to drop on their knees and agree with you?

 

We are just trying to present constructive criticism to Bioware about our experiences and you trolling is not helping the situation.

 

Agreed.... Anyone who can't play to win shouldn't be playing at all

[Laoi]

 

 

I just looked at the server list right now. Right now, The Bastion, Prophecy of the Five, and Jung Ma all have "Light" Population. The other servers are all standard. What do the sparsely populated servers have in common? They are PvP servers. The RP and PvE communities seem to be carrying the game along, though.

 

You're welcome again!

 

 

the only reason why pve servers are the most populated servers now is cos the world aint black and white. alot of pve players arent pure pvers, lots of them pvp too just like alot of pvp players also do some pve every now and then. the pvp servers were aimed at ppl who enjoy ganking and/or the thrill of the possibility to be attacked at any time. what i meant to say with my initial statement is that the game has obviously failed when 1 month after release most servers were already massively dwindling numbers. iirc the game has presold 800k copies if not more. how many of those do you think still play? 50k maybe ? id call that a dead game

 

now considering that the pve in this game is hardly if at all beeing complained about we can safely assume that most of those quitters were pvpers which supports my previous statement about pvp players beeing the deciding factor about a games state of health. just cos you are the majority now doesnt mean u in generally are. the majority of players especially pvpers have just already left the game a long time ago. if the pvp in this game was as good as the pve it would have 10 times the amount of players than it has now.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Laoi

[AlrikFassbauer]

Agreed.... Anyone who can't play to win shouldn't be playing at all

 

I don't play for the win.

I play for the fun.

[branmakmuffin]

Agreed.... Anyone who can't play to win shouldn't be playing at all

So then you are also in favor of removing losses as counting towards the WZ Weekly and Daily.

 

Bioware can and should force players to "play to win". All they need to do is change the requirement to x WZ matches completed where you get y or more medals, and anyone who wants to complete the companion quest would be forced to compete. They'd need to make it high enough that you couldn't get there with node-camping or cheese self-healing, but it would fit the criteria 'Force people to play to win'

And you, too, right, only wins should count towards WZ Weekly/Daily.

 

Notice no one is agreeing with you, you're only being toxic and cynical. You are defending behavior that is essentially making teams lose on purpose

And you as well.

 

If you are not willing to say "Yes, only wins should counts towards the Weekly/Daily," then you have no legs to stand on re: making only wins count towards Pierce and 4X. So now, show me the posting history of people calling for losses to be removed from counting towards the WZ Weekly/Daily.

Edited November 15, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[ScarletBlaze]

From my understanding talking to my friend who pvp you get comms in pvp whether you win or lose so if you want the companion to be a win only then you want the comms to be removed from those that lose as well.

 

How will that help pvp when you do that? I am of the understanding if you remove the comms unless you win then people will stop doing pvp.

 

Can't have it both ways.

Edited November 15, 2015 by ScarletBlaze

[Salakast]

From my understanding talking to my friend who pvp you get comms in pvp whether you win or lose so if you want the companion to be a win only then you want the comms to be removed from those that lose as well.

 

How will that help pvp when you do that? I am of the understanding if you remove the comms unless you win then people will stop doing pvp.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

This is completely disingenuous. No-one goes into PvP to get Comms who doesn't want to get PvP gear and improve their skills. So they are going to try, which is all anyone can reasonably ask.

 

When people are going in to troll the system and deliberately grief by not trying, the system needs to be changed to prevent that, for that circumstance only. So a medal requirement (not a win one) would at least make everyone participate if they want to get the companions. Which only fits in with the 'story' element too. What would happen if you went back to Pierce or MX and told them that you ran around and didn't engage anyone? They'd line you up against a wall and shoot you for cowardice in the face of the enemy. So it fits for RP purposes too !

[casirabit]

This is completely disingenuous. No-one goes into PvP to get Comms who doesn't want to get PvP gear and improve their skills. So they are going to try, which is all anyone can reasonably ask.

 

When people are going in to troll the system and deliberately grief by not trying, the system needs to be changed to prevent that, for that circumstance only. So a medal requirement (not a win one) would at least make everyone participate if they want to get the companions. Which only fits in with the 'story' element too. What would happen if you went back to Pierce or MX and told them that you ran around and didn't engage anyone? They'd line you up against a wall and shoot you for cowardice in the face of the enemy. So it fits for RP purposes too !

 

Nope, I see it the same. You either win the matches or you don't get the comms. Same principle involved. Yes, I know there are individuals not doing anything but that is because they feel like they are forced to do something they hate and there is no way around it.

 

Due to bioware locking companions behind these mission Yes it is forced or you are locked out of content. I don't pvp but I have a wonderful boyfriend who will take me and help me who doesn't stand there yelling, screaming or cussing at me because I don't know what to do. Maybe if more pvp people would actually help instead of being jerks then maybe some of the ones that hate pvp might actually try. I have actually tried pvp before but when people act like children and cuss and throw fits then it is not fun and I will not do something that is not fun.

 

Why spend time doing something when you have "children" throwing a temper tantrum and stoming their feet and using every foul language in the book when someone doesn't know what to do.

 

For the record, before you bring up operations and flashpoints, I will help anyone and I don't throw a fit if someone comes in with less than proper gear. Some of you have forgotten what it is like to not know what you are doing but instead of trying to help people you cuss yell and everything else and put blame them when some of these people are actually trying.

 

I have also known pvp players that come into flashpoints and operations that don't do anything but stand there so it goes both ways.

 

Maybe look at bioware for being stupid and locking other companions behind these so these people don't have a choice in the matter. If they could reject this companion they would but locking content behind this doesn't give them a choice.

 

Furthermore, if you honesty think they are going to change anything right now you don't remember how they work. The holidays are around the corner and if you recall last year's expansion when did they first any bugs? After January. If and if they change this most of the people will have already gotten their companions and moved on.

Edited November 15, 2015 by casirabit

[DarkSaberMaster]

Nope, I see it the same. You either win the matches or you don't get the comms. Same principle involved. Yes, I know there are individuals not doing anything but that is because they feel like they are forced to do something they hate and there is no way around it.

 

Due to bioware locking companions behind these mission Yes it is forced or you are locked out of content. I don't pvp but I have a wonderful boyfriend who will take me and help me who doesn't stand there yelling, screaming or cussing at me because I don't know what to do. Maybe if more pvp people would actually help instead of being jerks then maybe some of the ones that hate pvp might actually try. I have actually tried pvp before but when people act like children and cuss and throw fits then it is not fun and I will not do something that is not fun.

 

Why spend time doing something when you have "children" throwing a temper tantrum and stoming their feet and using every foul language in the book when someone doesn't know what to do.

 

For the record, before you bring up operations and flashpoints, I will help anyone and I don't throw a fit if someone comes in with less than proper gear. Some of you have forgotten what it is like to not know what you are doing but instead of trying to help people you cuss yell and everything else and put blame them when some of these people are actually trying.

 

I have also known pvp players that come into flashpoints and operations that don't do anything but stand there so it goes both ways.

 

Maybe look at bioware for being stupid and locking other companions behind these so these people don't have a choice in the matter. If they could reject this companion they would but locking content behind this doesn't give them a choice.

 

Furthermore, if you honesty think they are going to change anything right now you don't remember how they work. The holidays are around the corner and if you recall last year's expansion when did they first any bugs? After January. If and if they change this most of the people will have already gotten their companions and moved on.

 

Please. The PvEers who do OPs and FPs are just as viral and nasty. They will vote kick you out for anything and call you everything under the sun if you aren't geared or pulling your numbers. Think I'm lying? Go check out the People You Meet in Groupfinder thread in the Ops, Flashpoints section of the forum. The only thing that separates the PvPers and PvEers is how vote kick works. If vote kick in OPs and FPs operated the same way as in WZs, the crying would be legendary.

 

So please. Don't pull the "PvPers are monsters and unhelpful" card when PvEers are just as bad, if not worse. And this is coming from somebody who does both equally.

Edited November 15, 2015 by DarkSaberMaster

[Salakast]

If you think they're not going to make changes right now, I suggest you check out some of the companion threads in General...

[DarkSaberMaster]

If you think they're not going to make changes right now, I suggest you check out some of the companion threads in General...

 

Lol. I know right?

[JERIMAYUS]

This is completely disingenuous. No-one goes into PvP to get Comms who doesn't want to get PvP gear and improve their skills. So they are going to try, which is all anyone can reasonably ask.

 

When people are going in to troll the system and deliberately grief by not trying, the system needs to be changed to prevent that, for that circumstance only. So a medal requirement (not a win one) would at least make everyone participate if they want to get the companions. Which only fits in with the 'story' element too. What would happen if you went back to Pierce or MX and told them that you ran around and didn't engage anyone? They'd line you up against a wall and shoot you for cowardice in the face of the enemy. So it fits for RP purposes too !

 

You can't speak for all players in this regard Salakast and you most certainly DO NOT speak for me. I could not care less about getting coms to get PVP gear. The only reason I have ever done PVP until the whole Alliance thing was to get coms for decorations. Before you accuse me of being a do nothing troll let me remind you that the more medals I get the more coms I get which leads to me getting my deco faster. The faster I can get my deco the faster I can quit doing PVP. Don't use the argument that if you have gear you will do better because a full set of gear cost around 20000 coms. Do you know how many decos I can buy with that many coms? I'm not wasting coms on something that I don't want in the first place.

[Laoi]

why ppl who hate pvp play mmos at all is seriously beyond any form of reason :s

 

you know baldurs gate II has a coop mode and is a 489723984723847 quadzillion times better rpg than any mmo pve could ever be

Edited November 15, 2015 by Laoi

[branmakmuffin]

why ppl who hate pvp play mmos at all is seriously beyond any form of reason :s

Why PvPers play a heavily story-drive theme park MMO and expect PvP to be anything more than an after thought is beyond all form of reason.

[Salakast]

You can't speak for all players in this regard Salakast and you most certainly DO NOT speak for me. I could not care less about getting coms to get PVP gear. The only reason I have ever done PVP until the whole Alliance thing was to get coms for decorations. Before you accuse me of being a do nothing troll let me remind you that the more medals I get the more coms I get which leads to me getting my deco faster. The faster I can get my deco the faster I can quit doing PVP. Don't use the argument that if you have gear you will do better because a full set of gear cost around 20000 coms. Do you know how many decos I can buy with that many coms? I'm not wasting coms on something that I don't want in the first place.

 

It's only around 4,000 for a basic set, which'll get you the 2018 expertise. Then you'd have a better chance to maximise comms on each match, and it'd pay in the long run? Speculate to accumulate kinda deal?

 

But anyhow, I have no issue with anyone entering a warzone for any reason, in any gear, as long as they're not purposefully trolling by refusing to participate.