Troelsen Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why Carnage replaces their Scream with Blast. I notice the damage is energy instead of kinetic. Does that actually make a difference? I thought they were basically identical, like internal/elemental damage. I just really don't like Blast. Scream has actually always looked and sounded devastating, and this focus on Scream is what initially drew me to the spec a long time ago. Can we get a Devastating Scream instead that just adds some red lightning to the Force Scream animation? It can still be energy damage. That'd be great. Edited November 11, 2015 by Troelsen grammars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troelsen Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Any Carna-sseurs out there who prefer DB over FS? It's literally my only complaint about the spec. I've loved it since launch and love the changes they've been making to it since, so I don't mean to come off as whiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troelsen Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Did some digging and apparently there was a thread almost exactly like this made nearly a year ago, but that's all I could find. I've been looking into why Force Scream needed to be replaced at all, and all I've been able to glean (only from players) is that apparently Carnage is the "saber" spec and thus has its force attack replaced with one that comes from the sabers. What I glean from that is perhaps the Devs only wanted to distinguish Carnage from Fury by having them each use unique force attacks. If that's true, was this the best way to do it? Fury to me is already distinguished as the force attack spec, first with auto Smash crits, and now with a single target option, as well as things like Battle Cry and Force Crush. In most cases, abilities that get replaced by a discipline are upgraded in a way that plays to the disc's strengths, like being able to channel Force Lightning on the move for Darkness Assassins. Besides dealing more damage, Devastating Blast does nothing that Force Scream can't do (they could just buff the damage for Carnage), and it's the only instance in which slapping two lasers together generates such a precise blast. Lasers are slapping each other all the time in this world, so you'd think there'd be more cases of blasts from reflections and parries. If the difference is that Carnage channels the Force into their sabers, they already did that through their voice, so why change it? The answer can't be that Carnage is being distinguished as the saber spec by replacing one Force attack with another. Unless the result is an actual melee attack, it doesn't matter if youre channeling the Force through your sabers or your voice, it's still a Force-based attack. I hope they can bring back Scream and distinguish the spec in another way, like a Ravage that's usable while moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_mK Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Did some digging and apparently there was a thread almost exactly like this made nearly a year ago, but that's all I could find. I've been looking into why Force Scream needed to be replaced at all, and all I've been able to glean (only from players) is that apparently Carnage is the "saber" spec and thus has its force attack replaced with one that comes from the sabers. What I glean from that is perhaps the Devs only wanted to distinguish Carnage from Fury by having them each use unique force attacks. If that's true, was this the best way to do it? Fury to me is already distinguished as the force attack spec, first with auto Smash crits, and now with a single target option, as well as things like Battle Cry and Force Crush. In most cases, abilities that get replaced by a discipline are upgraded in a way that plays to the disc's strengths, like being able to channel Force Lightning on the move for Darkness Assassins. Besides dealing more damage, Devastating Blast does nothing that Force Scream can't do (they could just buff the damage for Carnage), and it's the only instance in which slapping two lasers together generates such a precise blast. Lasers are slapping each other all the time in this world, so you'd think there'd be more cases of blasts from reflections and parries. If the difference is that Carnage channels the Force into their sabers, they already did that through their voice, so why change it? The answer can't be that Carnage is being distinguished as the saber spec by replacing one Force attack with another. Unless the result is an actual melee attack, it doesn't matter if youre channeling the Force through your sabers or your voice, it's still a Force-based attack. I hope they can bring back Scream and distinguish the spec in another way, like a Ravage that's usable while moving. The reason they replace force scream is this. Both fury and carnage used force scream rotationally pre 3.0, any changes made to the damage of force scream in order to balance any of the specs would affect the other so they came up with replacement abilities so they can tune a discipline without affecting the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troelsen Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) The reason they replace force scream is this. Both fury and carnage used force scream rotationally pre 3.0, any changes made to the damage of force scream in order to balance any of the specs would affect the other so they came up with replacement abilities so they can tune a discipline without affecting the others And I totally understand that, but such a limitation could be worked around with a passive in each spec that increased Scream by x% (like buffing the damage on Execute and Battle Cry) while leaving an active slot open in Carnage's path for something else. Instead of turning the Devastating Blast dial, they'd turn the dial on the passive. Now this might be an unpopular idea, but wouldn't it make sense for Carnage and Fury to get the Pyrotech/AP treatment of having abilities moved around? As the Force spec, Fury is already loaded with Force attacks, but one thing the acrobatic melee spec is missing is an acrobatic ability that helps maintain melee range. Obliterate fits the bill perfectly. For Fury, I'd suggest a 10m Force Ravage in its place. There's still more distinguishing to do, however. Carnage uses passive proc attacks (with a Guarantee Strike) to make Force Scream/DB a super crit. Fury does something similar, but more acrobatically actually, by getting super crits from their gap closers. They even make use of a kind of Guarantee Strike to buff the damage of their unique 10m attack. Edited November 18, 2015 by Troelsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_mK Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 And I totally understand that, but such a limitation could be worked around with a passive in each spec that increased Scream by x% (like buffing the damage on Execute and Battle Cry) while leaving an active slot open in Carnage's path for something else. Instead of turning the Devastating Blast dial, they'd turn the dial on the passive. Now this might be an unpopular idea, but wouldn't it make sense for Carnage and Fury to get the Pyrotech/AP treatment of having abilities moved around? As the Force spec, Fury is already loaded with Force attacks, but one thing the acrobatic melee spec is missing is an acrobatic ability that helps maintain melee range. Obliterate fits the bill perfectly. For Fury, I'd suggest a 10m Force Ravage in its place. There's still more distinguishing to do, however. Carnage uses passive proc attacks (with a Guarantee Strike) to make Force Scream/DB a super crit. Fury does something similar, but more acrobatically actually, by getting super crits from their gap closers. They even make use of a kind of Guarantee Strike to buff the damage of their unique 10m attack. No. that would cause a tone of issues either rotationally or dps wise, both specs are fine as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzenaattori Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) oh god i miss blade storm animation! I wish they'd keep the animation and just give it a different skill color effect to make it look more powerful. like made the blade storm color blue or make lightning surge from it or some random crap like that... just to depict its a stronger version. Edited November 18, 2015 by Bonzenaattori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troelsen Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 No. that would cause a tone of issues either rotationally or dps wise, both specs are fine as they are. Yeah, it would be a huge overhaul that would likely take an additional xpac to fix whatever it broke. oh god i miss blade storm animation! I wish they'd keep the animation and just give it a different skill color effect to make it look more powerful. like made the blade storm color blue or make lightning surge from it or some random crap like that... just to depict its a stronger version. This would be ideal, a new skill but enhanced animation based on the replaced ability. They wouldn't even have to change the name. The specs are indeed fine as they are mechanically, I just miss Force Scream but enjoy Carnage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) The animation and sound is better than Force Burp. I don't miss Force Scream at all. PS : I wish they used the Kotor Froce Scream animation and sound. Edited November 23, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istrodantir Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I don't care neither about FC nor DB animation, but having the last talent it spec tree doing nothing but giving a slight + to damage seems ridiculous. Similar to scoundrels\operatives. The devs are totally incompetent in their own game if they can't invent a few fun abilities. Edited November 23, 2015 by istrodantir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troelsen Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't care neither about FC nor DB animation, but having the last talent it spec tree doing nothing but giving a slight + to damage seems ridiculous. Similar to scoundrels\operatives. The devs are totally incompetent in their own game if they can't invent a few fun abilities. Well I won't defend or criticize the devs directly since I don't know what their design decisions are based on, but I have believed since launch that the Mara/Sent trees are all mixed up and lack concrete identity, though Annihilation/Watchman fits a little more to their fantasy now. I think Carnage/Combat and Fury/Concentration could do with a little trading and invention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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