Carnage PvP 4.0

[AcaciaDragon]

I havent seen alot of threads about Carnage PvP since the expansion, but have noticed alot more Marauders in PvP. Ive played Carnage since launch and love it, Im not going to switch and not here to debate which discipline is better. I just want to know peoples thoughts on the utilities and The Ravage dot. I feel im missing something.

 

Im nearly fullly geared out again for PvP, missing about 4 pieces. I plan on replacing the default Accuracy they give for Alacrity. If anyone has thoughts on that, please say so.

 

My Utilities are:

Inexplorable(I do Warzones primarily atm)

Unflincihing Determination(Is this worth it? Ive seen some people not take this, and after running with it, im still uncertain how to plan for when i might get stunned, its alot of guesswork)

Maiming Reach(I dont take Phantom, i would rather run faster than my target, than run faster than 7 other people im not hitting. For some classes its pointless, PT or Operative, as nothing will let you slow them down or be as fast as they are with no limits.)

 

Relentless(Obiovus choice)

Interceptor(I was trying this out, but may give it up for Brazen instead, trading a slow for faster movement cleanse)

 

Unbound(Obivous choice is obvious)

Blood Ward(im considering dropping this one for inescapable. How often Bloodward is usefull in a warzone is limited by the CD.)

 

So I have alot of qustions about which one is more usefull that another. It all comes down to play style. I usually run with a healer and joining a new guild recently that pvp's alot, I'll probably be running with good balanced premades.

 

Now, Ravage, the Dot it got. Whats the point of this? Does it drop stealthies out of stealth if they pop out? Why am I targeting a Sin or Op anyway? My target priorities starting from highest:

 

Sorc > Sniper > Merc > Mara > Jugg > Sin > Op > PT

 

Obivously hitting the targets that do the most damage when they are stationary are my first priority. I have alot of abilties that keep me mobile. which means they have to stay on the move. Is this the correct way to approach it?

 

On the stun immunity for Saber Ward...Will it say immune if someone trys to stun me while i have it up?

[Vodrin]

First off, PT should be your top priority target outside of healers. They are relatively squishy, have fewer defensives than sorc and even sniper, and put out more burst damage than any other class if left to their own devices.

 

As far as utilities, I consider Brazen a must as it both increases mitigation and DPS, I also consider overwhelm a must as Beserk>Gore>Ravage>Devastating Blast is still the best burst carnage can muster so anything that helps you land that is a must have in my opinion.

 

I am running Unflinching Determination right now, primarily for arenas. Although the cooldown is much too long, I do feel that it is great to be able to have immunity to all CC for a gore burst cycle. It allows you to leap in activating Saber ward just before reaching your target and almost always get your target to burn a CC on you that will not work. This will almost always allow you to land the burst combo I detailed before.

 

On the next level Relentless is a must have for sure, and I take Phantom as I find it does help me stay on target. I also think Stragulate and Defensive roll can be justified but I don't think the rest are very good.

 

On the heroic level I think that Unbound is a must have as you have already noted. None of the other options are fantastic, but I personally go back and forth between Expunging Cammo and blood ward. I also think you can make arguments for Undying and Brooding. I think the rest are hard to argue for. Cammo accomplishes the same thing as Through victory with the same cooldown and additional benefits, and the others are not worth considering in my opinion. I feel like Expunging Cammo is better when your group has a healer, and blood ward is better when you don't.

[TobyTobias]

Hello,

 

I play mostly pvp. These utilities are for regs.

 

Mandatory for all specs I have

- Cloak of carnage so CoP stays active the whole duration more easily

- Brazen for fury building and dmg mitigation

- Relentless to free zen for dps usage and to stay on target with predation

- Defensive roll because aoe and pvp go hand in hand

- Unbound because purging effects is important for staying on target and staying alive. The extra speed helps your team and yourself also(for example pop force camouflage and then predation and fly away to safety)

- Expunging Camouflage. Makes the FC much better escape option, try it.

(I sometimes like to change EC for Through Victory if i get annoyed for all the roots etc.)

 

There is one point unused so it depends on the spec. For carnage I use Overwhelm to keep the opponent still for the gore + ravage. For fury and annihilation I take Maiming Reach which helps me to pressure healers more and, once again, to stay better on target

 

I don't take those Saber Ward utilities because they have so little uptime. For arena i like to use them because i can use them every round. Saber Ward has cd of 3 minutes and 6 seconds of immunity is quite little. I like to focus on utilities which have as much uptime as possible.

 

I've been playing pvp with mara since beta and I like to change specs frequently. I suggest trying Annihilation for pvp, you may be surprised by the dmg output in 4.0.

[AcaciaDragon]

I question Overwhelm mainly because if Berserk is popped its down to a 2.2-2.3 second channel. If you start the channel when you are within a meter of the target, you can finish the entire sequence before they move away due to server delay, provided no speed buffs are popped, without them being rooted, provided you dont get stunned/knocked back. I have noticed that I dont get stunned as often when I do Ravage, it might be because Its not rooting and they arent viewing it as a threat. I guess I should try it out to see if works for me.

 

I know the question was asked months ago and I am not sure if it was ever clarified. Expunging Camo and "Cleansable effects" Is it just snares and roots? or does it include certain dots?

 

I actually played Annihilation back before 1.2 came out and it was fun, but too much to keep track of. I like the fluidness that Carnage brings.

[Troelsen]

You can toss a Vicious Throw or Devastating Blast right before using Gore so that you gain the buff before it hits the target, essentially squeezing an extra ability into the window. I'm 90% sure the ranged ability will gain the armor pen even though it was cast before Gore.

 

I'd also recommend a free Predation that grants +80% movespeed and breaks roots/snares for your whole WZ team within range. The 10% defense is a nice bonus too.

[Vodrin]

You can toss a Vicious Throw or Devastating Blast right before using Gore so that you gain the buff before it hits the target, essentially squeezing an extra ability into the window. I'm 90% sure the ranged ability will gain the armor pen even though it was cast before Gore.

 

I'd also recommend a free Predation that grants +80% movespeed and breaks roots/snares for your whole WZ team within range. The 10% defense is a nice bonus too.

 

It's easier to do this with Vicious throw, and it definitely does allow you to get an additional ability in your gore windows. You can also clip ravage during beserk to fit an additional ability in.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

That's some **** Utility choice.

 

The ONLY Utility Setup you need for Marauder in general is this.

 

Skillful: Unextorable, Brazen, Overwhelm

Masterful: Relentless, Defensive Roll

Heroic: Unbound, Undying

 

That gives you the most PvP utility, and defense. No need to slow your targets, because 99% of the time they are slowed by your allies.

[Vodrin]

That's some **** Utility choice.

 

The ONLY Utility Setup you need for Marauder in general is this.

 

Skillful: Unextorable, Brazen, Overwhelm

Masterful: Relentless, Defensive Roll

Heroic: Unbound, Undying

 

That gives you the most PvP utility, and defense. No need to slow your targets, because 99% of the time they are slowed by your allies.

 

While I agree with you that the OP's utility choices are a bit strange on some notes, I like some others than you have chosen as well. Brazen, Overwhelm, Relentless, and Unbound are all mandatory. But I think there are some choices that are situationally better for the other three, particularly in arenas. I really find Undying to be kind of meh, despite many good ranked mara/sents loving it.

[Troelsen]

While I agree with you that the OP's utility choices are a bit strange on some notes, I like some others than you have chosen as well. Brazen, Overwhelm, Relentless, and Unbound are all mandatory. But I think there are some choices that are situationally better for the other three, particularly in arenas. I really find Undying to be kind of meh, despite many good ranked mara/sents loving it.

Arenas are really where you get those most out of utilities tied to long cooldowns, like Undying and even Unflinching Determination, as those are most likely to prevent your death. I tend to use more consistent utilities WZs, usually choosing between speed or tankiness, like between Phantom and Defensive Roll. I never run without Relentless or Unbound though. I just wish the Undying utility brought the cooldown down to 2 minutes at the cost of some health, or taking damage below 50% health shaves a few seconds off the active cooldown with a rate limit.

[vantgarde]

Im nearly fullly geared out again for PvP, missing about 4 pieces. I plan on replacing the default Accuracy they give for Alacrity. If anyone has thoughts on that, please say so.

 

Agreed.

 

Utilities:

Inexorable - Oh yes!

Unflincihing Determination - 3 minutes cooldown not worth it, aside from solo ranked (Even then... better go focus to have a 30sec cooldown immunity). Someone say it allow you to place your burst. True! Every 3 minutes... and you wont have the cooldown when needed. Just burst with reliable attacks when you know they gonna slip out of your MStrike.

Maiming Reach - This utility goes with the heroic Inescapable; and this is unacceptable to take Two utilities for a so weak control. use leg slash for the 20 healing debuff if you can't kill your target other wise.

 

Better go for

Brazen - this builds centering, just take it.

Overwhelm - This is just as weak as maining reach inescapable combo, but 1 utility, on a non situationnal attack. Much better! But do not expect to land a full MS to often though. Assuming non retard and stuff, you know the usual disclaimer.

The other utilities are crap or PVE.

 

Relentless Yes!

Interceptor Good enought. Phantom is your solo utility. Consider strangulate since you play with teamates.

 

Unbound Yes!

Blood Ward Crap aside from Solo. A weak heal on a 3 minute CD.

 

I'll take

Through victory - One A still marauder is a dead marauder. Two you can actually dodge a lot of damage with it similarly to agent (much less OP though), so you want to be able to activate it on the fly. (for instance sniper ambush)

 

Now, Ravage, the Dot it got. Whats the point of this? - No point. This bumps DPS a little because a lot of sentinel/ mara cried all of 3.X. this messes with the Burst nature of the spec. No decent stealther will be caught with this.

 

My target priorities starting from highest:

Sorc > Sniper > Merc > Mara > Jugg > Sin > Op > PT

 

This is not the way it works in PVP. You will be hitting the target you can reach. From this you can apply priority. If you plan to go through the whole ennemy team to catch that healer with your Mara...You gonna be crushed down long before reaching him. Unless... see usual disclaimer.

 

You play with teammates, on a burst spec, so you should focus a reasonably safe target for you as a first step (your set up for burst). For instance someone that has overextend in your team. PT, sins, other mara, jugg.

 

From there, when you and your DPS mate are ready you gonna use your mobility to place your Awe on healer hardstun someone and burst him down. See, this is why playing bust spec will always be sexier than big bad DOTs. You actually have to think and plan.

 

On the stun immunity for Saber Ward...Will it say immune if someone trys to stun me while i have it up? for the 6 first second, yes. It also work on effect such as pacify (Obfuscate)

 

EDIT on other post:

Cloak of carnage so CoP stays active the whole duration more easily I guess, but this is simple enought to have it every time you need it without the utility.

Defensive roll because aoe and pvp go hand in hand I know a lot of Mara want to make love all night long with "Refensive Doll" but AOE in itself are actually weak in the current Meta. And 5% internal damage reduction, come on...

Expunging Camouflage. Makes the FC much better escape option, try it. Yes, when playing solo. And it make your new defensive mad dash unreliable.

I don't take those Saber Ward utilities because they have so little uptime. 100% agreed

I suggest trying Annihilation for pvp, you may be surprised by the dmg output in 4.0. DOT spec = Crap, aside from overbuffed sins and sorc. DPS is not important. Killing people is. Anyone can have an amazing damage output in spreading dots on a pack of undying people.

 

Expunging Camo and "Cleansable effects" Is it just snares and roots? or does it include certain dots? Only snares and roots

 

Undying 2m30 CD...

Edited November 10, 2015 by vantgarde

[Vodrin]

Expunging cammo also cleanses all the damage debuffs that different classes apply. It also removed trauma. This makes it in all ways superior to through victory in my opinion, along with Cammo potentially protecting you from CC's and mitigating some DoT damage while cammo'd.

 

Also, PT should be the first DPS class you target right now. It has weaker defensives than sniper and has best burst and DPS in PvP right now. Just remember to never stun them prior to bursting (passive 30% damage reduction while stunned). Stun them to interrupt their burst or eat up HO and hit something else until the stun is over.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Vodrin

[Troelsen]

I would also like to point out a great synergy between Cloak of Annihilation and Cloak of Rage/Maiming Reach. Sometimes you'll get kited inside that 10m range but just out of melee range. These three utilities lets you feed Crippling Slash with Rage from damage taken, which in turn fuels Fury and reduces the cooldown on Cloak of Pain, allowing you to keep it up indefinitely as long as you're focused.

 

However, if you're being focused enough to really keep this going, you're probably already dead without heals. With heals, it's a very strong way to have almost permanent 20% DR, Trauma and snare with a decent chance at catching kiters.

[AcaciaDragon]

Thanks for the help everyone,

 

I switched over to:

 

Brazen, Overwhelm, Maiming Reach, Inexplorable

Relentless

Unbound, Expounging Camoflauge.

 

I dont like the Through Victory Utility mainly because it only has 1 second of 100% defense, vs Camoflauge's 4 seconds of damage reduction to reduce Dot Damage. With Mad Dash, im kinda hoping someone will hit me to negate it, with Camo I can at least control the damage being done to me.

 

I may switch out Maiming Reach for Phantom now that Im taking EC, Im just not ready to give that utility up yet.

Since most people dont take it, Where is crippling slash in your rotation? Is it even used? or only for the Trauma debuff to negate heals? Seems a waste because I almost never notice a difference, and having to use 1/4 of your total possible rage seems a bit much.