Vaylin...

[Isnogut]

There are lots of those on Korriban and Dromund Kass. Thana Vesh, a former star pupil of the Academy, is Vaylin without the skill/power.

Pretty much this, however I don't see her at all as a Sith failure. Just a little to naive. But after all, she is but an apprentice. From my point of view, she has potential. Just got to get wiser or better.

[Piratekinq]

I loved it when she said, "you have a crush on me, don't you?" I was like HELL YEAH you crazy witch

[DeltaaXx]

Dark Jaessa had an awesome turning and is kind of like pure sith comedy in a way. Vaylin has well...no backstory and is a boring attempt at a serious character.

 

Funny that is my exacy impression of Jaesa. I thought her very uninteresting and would quite like to abandon her at the next spaceport...

[CrutchCricket]

If I am a betting man, this story line is going to culminate into an operation and Valkorian will be boss number 5.

I've been saying this since SoR. Shame, it makes the Knight story all but useless.

 

Actually, I would disagree with that.

 

I've played a few Imp characters now (BH, IA, and Sorc) and I realize that, within SWTOR they try to make the Republic versus Empire more of a "blue vs red" or "spy vs spy" sort of thing, but in the original movie (and book) universe, the Sith are "evil for the sake of evil" and Vaylin fits that mold very well.

"Jedi are always good and Sith are always evil" is purely a Lucas thing. Not everything in the EU subscribes to that 100%, not even close.

 

Thana Vesh, a former star pupil of the Academy, is Vaylin without the skill/power.

 

Thana Vesh isn't/doesn't act crazy. Apart from that there are similarities, mostly in potential, though Vaylin does seem to outclass Thana in power. Would want both at my inquisitor's side though.

 

I haven't said she is the perfect Sith, but the perfect candidate to be one. If you don't have these attributes, you'll going to have a quite hard time being a Sith. Even worse, you are actually no Sith if you haven' embraced or lived the credo.

 

And please don't even tart arguing "grey Sith, blabla, Light Sith blaba" it's nonsense. There are neither grey Sith nor grey Jedi. This doesn’t mean this isn't possible, but those categories fall off the grid. Sith and Jedi is about dogmas and interpretation of the Force. Everything between is neither Sith, nor Jedi, but something else. Like all the Force user boundaries we met during TOR. Recently the prominent being the Knights of Zakuul.

 

But back on the topic:

I truly believe, Vaylin has everything that is needed to be a prominent Sith apprentice and with time she even could get a prominent Sith. She is already powerful, but she lacks of understanding how the Sith dogma works. She is just controlled by evil emotions. And Vaylin is but an inch to understand how to use them properly, like Sith do. These are my arguments for liking her.

It's not like, "wow, that evil b/witch! Makes me ******! Yea, snap at me baby!"

Rather it's, "Wow! A worthy apprentice for my Sith. Do the Sith thing, break her psyche to obey, build her again as a Sith. ...and mate with her, because she is the only one worthy being at your side, ...if even!"

 

Yea, I know, sounds kinda sick, but a Sith works that way. Oh, you 'don't believe me? Bane, Zannah, Palpatine, Maul, Ventress, VADER. They are all at first tragic personalities, who were broken by their master. After that they grew more or less to be quite prominent Sith Lords. This is exactly the same sick idea, which made them.

Well said. In both Thana and Vaylin's case it's not really a matter of breaking their psyches as they're already dark. Rather it's about teaching them control, patience and cunning. Why go all "rawr I kill you because I'm dark/hate odd numbers" when you could manipulate them into killing each other and also weakening the next enemies down the line while you only grow stronger? For a Sith, treachery and cunning can achieve a whole lot more than martial strength and flashy displays of Force power.

Edited November 8, 2015 by CrutchCricket

[JessieLoverRxE]

I like her. But then again, I've always sorta been a sucker for bad guys in fictional settings. They've just always been far more interesting then the usual gary-stued and mary-sued goody two-shoes protagonists.

 

For those of you saying she'd be a perfect romance option for your strong dominant males tho; I hate to break it to you, but if this was RL, and she was this 'aggressive' woman or an actual psychopath, she definitely would not go for someone who would 'dominate' her. People like that go for people who are weak, dumb and/or naive. Someone THEY can manipulate and have complete control over. - I know it's fiction, and this may be a bit out of place I just felt like sharing it lol.

 

Also, pretty sure Vaylin is more powerful then the outlander.

 

*Is spamming the forums because game is busy redownloding by mistake*

[Isnogut]

Well said. In both Thana and Vaylin's case it's not really a matter of breaking their psyches as they're already dark. Rather it's about teaching them control, patience and cunning. Why go all "rawr I kill you because I'm dark/hate odd numbers" when you could manipulate them into killing each other and also weakening the next enemies down the line while you only grow stronger? For a Sith, treachery and cunning can achieve a whole lot more than martial strength and flashy displays of Force power.

I think the best rolemodel of how a Sith works is Sidious and Tyrannus. They both work way better without the Force. They are masterminds at first and only after that very powerfull und skilled Force users. Thats is actually also the thing I try to achieve in here. ...Sadly in here the storyplots of Sith Warrior and Inquisitor is quite romantic. The warrior is more of a Samurai guy. Live by the codex, die by the sword. The Inquisitor is, well, only harnessing power. Both are not so outstanding as their rolemodels. More so, I feel like an apprentice during the storyplot of KotFE.

 

When my Sith are competing with "equals" they toss the Sith like puppets around, but my Sith don't do this in return also. Even worse, they need Valkorion for stunts like that.

 

From my understanding the equal powerlevel of my Sith warrior is Arkann. And my equal of a Sith Inquisitor in powerlevel and Force Skill is Vaylin. But again, ... the protagonists are not. They behave like htey have no idea what the Force is, and have nor plan or cunnig. They are been kept alive just by luck.

 

Assuming that those two are my equals, Arkann is clearliy the antagonist. Maybe not the main antagonist, but he is delusional enough to be the primary at the moment. He is out of discussion not fit for been turn as a Sith. I belive even then he is no Sith material at all. But Vaylin, I am not quite sure she is the villian as well... This opens possibillities.

 

I like her. But then again, I've always sorta been a sucker for bad guys in fictional settings. They've just always been far more interesting then the usual gary-stued and mary-sued goody two-shoes protagonists.

 

For those of you saying she'd be a perfect romance option for your strong dominant males tho; I hate to break it to you, but if this was RL, and she was this 'aggressive' woman or an actual psychopath, she definitely would not go for someone who would 'dominate' her. People like that go for people who are weak, dumb and/or naive. Someone THEY can manipulate and have complete control over. - I know it's fiction, and this may be a bit out of place I just felt like sharing it lol.

Correct, but then again this is the higher game of a Sith Lord. Turning the unturnable is one of the greates games to be achieved. The storyplot for Jessa is quite on the point. But after that, meh! She is just crazy for beeing crazy.

Also, pretty sure Vaylin is more powerful then the outlander.

So ist Anakin to Palpatine, still, who was the master and who the Apprentice?

 

I remind you, power and Force potential is not only what makes you a Sith Lord. At prime it is your intelligence and your cunning. But indeed, power helps achieving your ingenius goals. But if you are no mastermind, you are only a buffon dressed as a Sith.

 

And no I don't mean by that, Vader is sipleminded. He is acutally a mistermind for himself. However still just a child compared to Palpatine and Vitiate.

[Frenesi]

But again, ... the protagonists are not. They behave like htey have no idea what the Force is, and have nor plan or cunnig. They are been kept alive just by luck.

 

 

And that's why this story is best played by smuggler. If you can't make it good, at least make it fashionably bad.

[CrutchCricket]

I think the best rolemodel of how a Sith works is Sidious and Tyrannus. They both work way better without the Force. They are masterminds at first and only after that very powerfull und skilled Force users. Thats is actually also the thing I try to achieve in here. ...Sadly in here the storyplots of Sith Warrior and Inquisitor is quite romantic. The warrior is more of a Samurai guy. Live by the codex, die by the sword. The Inquisitor is, well, only harnessing power. Both are not so outstanding as their rolemodels. More so, I feel like an apprentice during the storyplot of KotFE.

 

When my Sith are competing with "equals" they toss the Sith like puppets around, but my Sith don't do this in return also. Even worse, they need Valkorion for stunts like that.

 

From my understanding the equal powerlevel of my Sith warrior is Arkann. And my equal of a Sith Inquisitor in powerlevel and Force Skill is Vaylin. But again, ... the protagonists are not. They behave like htey have no idea what the Force is, and have nor plan or cunnig. They are been kept alive just by luck.

 

Assuming that those two are my equals, Arkann is clearliy the antagonist. Maybe not the main antagonist, but he is delusional enough to be the primary at the moment. He is out of discussion not fit for been turn as a Sith. I belive even then he is no Sith material at all. But Vaylin, I am not quite sure she is the villian as well... This opens possibillities.

The ultimate Sith in my opinion is still Darth Bane, pioneer of the Rule of Two and the aforementioned manipulations first policy. I try to make my inquisitor follow in his footsteps as much as possible without actually breaking the timeline. It does require more headcanon than I'd like since as you mention, the class story is just an origin story at heart.

 

For the warrior though, that's freaking impossible. The man is a tool from start to finish. I cannot reasonably make him a good Sith. So instead I just ran with the "Empire's Wrath" idea. A warrior dedicated solely to the Empire. I gave him an allergy to the betrayal and schemes real Sith use so basically you serve the system or you get to meet his lightsaber. The outcome is... acceptable. Someone pointed out the Warrior emulates Vader more than he does other Sith, so making him the unstoppable enforcer who's not the mastermind was a little easier. It's just hard to be impressed by that when you can have the whole package with other Sith.

 

As for Fallen Empire I rolled an insta-60 and pretended she was an entirely new character, so her getting tossed around doesn't bother me as much. But if I had taken my mains through I likely would be in your boat. The fault of the one-size fits all story. They should've at least differentiated some things between Force-users and non-Force Users.

 

Arcann is a brute through and through. But Vaylin doesn't fit the mold as easy. Yes she could be more about arcane Force Powers. On the other hand she Starkillers blast doors while chasing you. I am very interested to see what she does next.

Edited November 8, 2015 by CrutchCricket

[Isnogut]

We'll see what the future episodes will bring. Maybe Vaylin psyche will get unlocked and we got eiter a real fight at our hands, or she is just a kitten then. Frankly, as much as I like her, In that case I'd prefer her to be a real enemy. I wouldn't like her washed up. But maybe I am all wrong. Who knows? She seems to me the way more interesting character in this game. Right after Valarion.

 

By the way, I don't belive he is Vitiate. In the scene, where we meet hin in the throne room, he seems suprised, that we think he might be that Emperor of the Sith. And he never confimed he is Vitatate, but let us simly go with this thought.

[Canareth]

We'll see what the future episodes will bring. Maybe Vaylin psyche will get unlocked and we got eiter a real fight at our hands, or she is just a kitten then. Frankly, as much as I like her, In that case I'd prefer her to be a real enemy. I wouldn't like her washed up. But maybe I am all wrong. Who knows? She seems to me the way more interesting character in this game. Right after Valarion.

 

She's the one that's going somewhere between her and Arcann. Valkorion says it himself, Arcann can't conceive of his own ambition, all he has is jealousy.

 

Vaylin revels in what she can do with the Force. Her ambition seems to be nothing beyond power... But her dad did say she was his favourite and we know what his attitude on power was.

 

By the way, I don't belive he is Vitiate. In the scene, where we meet hin in the throne room, he seems suprised, that we think he might be that Emperor of the Sith. And he never confimed he is Vitatate, but let us simly go with this thought.

 

Oh he does if you are Sith. Chapter 2 is explicit in at least three ways on that point.

[Hebruixe]

I've been reading posts across the forums, and I've found a number of people actually seem to Like Vaylin... I mean really? I won't criticize anyone's tastes outright, ( Hell, I think most of the alien women in this game are pretty attractive, minus the Selonians who I simply think are ******. Don't judge. )

 

But I will ask a general, why? What is there to like about Vaylin? She's like Dark Jaesa without a master to keep her in line, and much more powerful. As well as psychopathical. And those... *shivers*, Nails... *shivers again*, are horrendous. Not to mention the 3 huge ovular kidney stones inset into her forehead... lol?

 

 

Vaylin stole the show. I'd romance her in a heartbeat.

[QuevvenXiltyn]

We'll see what the future episodes will bring. Maybe Vaylin psyche will get unlocked and we got eiter a real fight at our hands, or she is just a kitten then. Frankly, as much as I like her, In that case I'd prefer her to be a real enemy. I wouldn't like her washed up. But maybe I am all wrong. Who knows? She seems to me the way more interesting character in this game. Right after Valarion.

 

By the way, I don't belive he is Vitiate. In the scene, where we meet hin in the throne room, he seems suprised, that we think he might be that Emperor of the Sith. And he never confimed he is Vitatate, but let us simly go with this thought.

 

Though I may have said this earlier, I wonder if what is locked away in her mind might not be... the power that Valkorian seems to be missing from the Force of Darkness he is as Vitiate. I mean, Arcann says that "Father is weaker." To me this means that somewhere out there the rest of that power is waiting. In the mind of his daughter is just one of the more convenient places.

[Uruare]

Actually, I would disagree with that.

 

I've played a few Imp characters now (BH, IA, and Sorc) and I realize that, within SWTOR they try to make the Republic versus Empire more of a "blue vs red" or "spy vs spy" sort of thing, but in the original movie (and book) universe, the Sith are "evil for the sake of evil" and Vaylin fits that mold very well.

 

A philosopher of any credible sort, Lucas is not.

 

He made what is essentially a children's story about cowboys with laser swords is space fighting against a black knight in space and the evil space wizard that directed him.

 

Deep philosophy was not anything he even attempted upon with it. It was all made up to dramatize the story he wanted to tell

 

However, when one is giving such a story a massive expansion in analysis and taking into consideration some necessary pseudorealisms for practicality's sake, the whole evil for the sake of evil thing goes straight into absurdity and never departs.

 

It's completely stupid and untenable. No real people would be like that it droves and legions. No society would survive and prosper if it were so orgiastic in being what amounts to Chaotic Stupid.

 

Ergo, certain concessions have to be made when interpretation is required; concessions that, at minimum, allow for the existence of a galaxy-relevant society to even be plausible let alone believable as being well established and strong.

 

The Republic is entirely believable as presented. That's a believable premise.

 

The Sith Empire wouldn't have ever gotten to be an empire of note beyond some wretched single world where their reckless, unchecked evil for evils sake and unceasing infighting would have seen their end happen not too from their beginnings.

 

It must be assumed, for plausibility's sake, that there's more to it than the movies depicted; that in a galaxy-impacting Empire spanning millions of worlds, the very structures of civilization must be able to exist.

 

Because if every Sith is supposed to be Chaotic Stupid and we're still supposed to believe that their Empire is even remotely plausible, we might as well just decide that all the doors go to Narnia.

 

Verisimilitude. It matters.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Uruare

[JessieLoverRxE]

Correct, but then again this is the higher game of a Sith Lord. Turning the unturnable is one of the greates games to be achieved. The storyplot for Jessa is quite on the point. But after that, meh! She is just crazy for beeing crazy.

 

Great point from a fictional perspective. This is Star Wars, DS and the Sith we're talking about here after all, not the actual real life maniacs. Though, I think the reason Jaesa was so easy to turn to your DS was because she was indeed a weak-minded Jedi. That or, deep down, she was a 'sith' all along. I use the term sith lightly here, since in truth, I think she actually acted more like some troubled gothic teenager, and I've sorta just been waiting to hear her resuscitate some sort of an angry/depressing poem on how the universe will burn or something. - That's just the impression I personally got for her anyway. She just doesn't really seem to get what it means to be Sith.

 

 

So ist Anakin to Palpatine, still, who was the master and who the Apprentice?

 

I remind you, power and Force potential is not only what makes you a Sith Lord. At prime it is your intelligence and your cunning. But indeed, power helps achieving your ingenius goals. But if you are no mastermind, you are only a buffon dressed as a Sith.

 

And no I don't mean by that, Vader is sipleminded. He is acutally a mistermind for himself. However still just a child compared to Palpatine and Vitiate.

 

True. Cunning and intelligence is indeed important for a Sith; Though, when the time comes, the masters will fall just as long as the apprentice is powerful enough. Keep in mind both Palpatine and Vitiate were defeated by their far more 'insufficient' apprentices.

[runar_smugler]

I think she's got a pretty sexy face....her hips are a tad too big and so is her body...I dont like anything about her personality at all. BUT..she's got a sexy face hands down:)

[Isnogut]

I wouldn't call Dark Jessa a Sith at all. She is just a crazed foce User, who grow on the Dark Side. But as we know just using the ark Siede, doesen't make you Sith. It's the attitude. Vaylin on the other hand shows from ste start this attitude.

[Max_Killjoy]

A philosopher of any credible sort, Lucas is not.

 

He made what is essentially a children's story about cowboys with laser swords is space fighting against a black knight in space and the evil space wizard that directed him.

 

Deep philosophy was not anything he even attempted upon with it. It was all made up to dramatize the story he wanted to tell

 

However, when one is giving such a story a massive expansion in analysis and taking into consideration some necessary pseudorealisms for practicality's sake, the whole evil for the sake of evil thing goes straight into absurdity and never departs.

 

It's completely stupid and untenable. No real people would be like that it droves and legions. No society would survive and prosper if it were so orgiastic in being what amounts to Chaotic Stupid.

 

Ergo, certain concessions have to be made when interpretation is required; concessions that, at minimum, allow for the existence of a galaxy-relevant society to even be plausible let alone believable as being well established and strong.

 

The Republic is entirely believable as presented. That's a believable premise.

 

The Sith Empire wouldn't have ever gotten to be an empire of note beyond some wretched single world where their reckless, unchecked evil for evils sake and unceasing infighting would have seen their end happen not too from their beginnings.

 

It must be assumed, for plausibility's sake, that there's more to it than the movies depicted; that in a galaxy-impacting Empire spanning millions of worlds, the very structures of civilization must be able to exist.

 

Because if every Sith is supposed to be Chaotic Stupid and we're still supposed to believe that their Empire is even remotely plausible, we might as well just decide that all the doors go to Narnia.

 

Verisimilitude. It matters.

 

Very well said.

 

Just to believe that it can actually exist in the fictional reality of SWTOR, one must assume that the Empire has at least a "critical mass" of people like Darth Marr, Darth Imperious, Watcher and Keeper, the pragmatic faction of the Moffs, etc.

[QuevvenXiltyn]

Very well said.

 

Just to believe that it can actually exist in the fictional reality of SWTOR, one must assume that the Empire has at least a "critical mass" of people like Darth Marr, Darth Imperious, Watcher and Keeper, the pragmatic faction of the Moffs, etc.

 

Imperial Intelligence prior to Cipher leaving Voss...

 

Seriously, the Empire suffers so badly after Imperial Intelligence is gutted that Darth Arkous makes mention that he wishes it was still around...

 

You know, one of the chief lieutenants in a scheme to destroy the Empire...

[PadsterPwns]

Ok, this just got weird....

 

Valkorian *stops time* "you're not doing this right, accept my power...."

 

That's the funniest post I've ever seen, you win the internet!

[OldVengeance]

I wouldn't call Dark Jessa a Sith at all. She is just a crazed foce User, who grow on the Dark Side. But as we know just using the ark Siede, doesen't make you Sith. It's the attitude. Vaylin on the other hand shows from ste start this attitude.

 

Jaesa is very much a Sith. There's no specific manipulation quotient you need to meet to qualify as a Sith.

Edited November 9, 2015 by OldVengeance

[Atalantia]

A philosopher of any credible sort, Lucas is not.

 

He made what is essentially a children's story about cowboys with laser swords is space fighting against a black knight in space and the evil space wizard that directed him.

 

Deep philosophy was not anything he even attempted upon with it. It was all made up to dramatize the story he wanted to tell

 

However, when one is giving such a story a massive expansion in analysis and taking into consideration some necessary pseudorealisms for practicality's sake, the whole evil for the sake of evil thing goes straight into absurdity and never departs.

 

It's completely stupid and untenable. No real people would be like that it droves and legions. No society would survive and prosper if it were so orgiastic in being what amounts to Chaotic Stupid.

 

Ergo, certain concessions have to be made when interpretation is required; concessions that, at minimum, allow for the existence of a galaxy-relevant society to even be plausible let alone believable as being well established and strong.

 

The Republic is entirely believable as presented. That's a believable premise.

 

The Sith Empire wouldn't have ever gotten to be an empire of note beyond some wretched single world where their reckless, unchecked evil for evils sake and unceasing infighting would have seen their end happen not too from their beginnings.

 

It must be assumed, for plausibility's sake, that there's more to it than the movies depicted; that in a galaxy-impacting Empire spanning millions of worlds, the very structures of civilization must be able to exist.

 

Because if every Sith is supposed to be Chaotic Stupid and we're still supposed to believe that their Empire is even remotely plausible, we might as well just decide that all the doors go to Narnia.

 

Verisimilitude. It matters.

 

I would disagree to a point with this logic as the movies themselves, havent read many of the book myself, the Empire is based off the Rule of Two. There are never more than the Emperor and Dark Vader in the episode's 4-6

 

So the empire basically has a King, and his enforcer and then the military, moff's etc

 

While SW:ToR has the full Dark Council and The Rule of Two hasn't been implemented I agree

[Criscon]

I've been reading posts across the forums, and I've found a number of people actually seem to Like Vaylin... I mean really? I won't criticize anyone's tastes outright, ( Hell, I think most of the alien women in this game are pretty attractive, minus the Selonians who I simply think are ******. Don't judge. )

 

But I will ask a general, why? What is there to like about Vaylin? She's like Dark Jaesa without a master to keep her in line, and much more powerful. As well as psychopathical. And those... *shivers*, Nails... *shivers again*, are horrendous. Not to mention the 3 huge ovular kidney stones inset into her forehead... lol?

 

 

because shes evil. Everyone likes Evil bad *** women. Only the hot ones. I hope one day my female BH will sex her.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Criscon

[IslanderRebel]

I've been reading posts across the forums, and I've found a number of people actually seem to Like Vaylin... I mean really? I won't criticize anyone's tastes outright, ( Hell, I think most of the alien women in this game are pretty attractive, minus the Selonians who I simply think are ******. Don't judge. )

 

But I will ask a general, why? What is there to like about Vaylin? She's like Dark Jaesa without a master to keep her in line, and much more powerful. As well as psychopathical. And those... *shivers*, Nails... *shivers again*, are horrendous. Not to mention the 3 huge ovular kidney stones inset into her forehead... lol?

 

 

You got Vaylin all wrong bro.

She just wants someone to forcechoke her fanny when you make whoopee to her.

Then while she's smoking that cigarette, she wants to get donkeypunched.

you must be a pub fan.

Edited November 9, 2015 by IslanderRebel

[Uruare]

I would disagree to a point with this logic as the movies themselves, havent read many of the book myself, the Empire is based off the Rule of Two. There are never more than the Emperor and Dark Vader in the episode's 4-6

 

So the empire basically has a King, and his enforcer and then the military, moff's etc

 

While SW:ToR has the full Dark Council and The Rule of Two hasn't been implemented I agree

 

 

SWTOR is the broader analysis requiring interpretation, yeah. And from the basis of what Lucas dreamed up to tell his story about space cowboys, a black knight in space and a diabolical space wizard masterminding all the evil, when you draw the figurative cameras way back to look at even just what SWTOR looks at...a lot of things have to be thought of differently.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to presume that a couple of very powerful and very evil people could essentially be King and executioner of a huge, powerful society. What Lucas presents in the movies is, for the concern of at least my regards for verisimilitude on these points, just fine.

 

But if we take that same logic and definitions for the evil dramatis persona back to a time when undefined quantities of such people are supposed to be in charge, and they're all supposedly Stupid Evil, Chaotic Stupid and unchecked perpetrators of Evil For Evil's Sake whenever the whim strikes just about any of them?

 

The whole caveat about the rule of two that applies is the stories Lucas told is fine. A little difficult to believe that at no point over thousands of years that descending Sith would give a crap about what a long dead guy thought about anything if they'd simply felt like doing it differently, but it's not take straining credulity on any important threads to just handwave that and say that that's just how it happened to go.

 

Might be unlikely given the rather easy to identify tendency of Sith to do whatever they please of it pleases them, but not at all impossible.

 

It would be completely broken to take the same logic that works for Sidious and Vader and those that came before them in an their secrecy and binary self-limitation and decide that a galactic Empire over a thousand years old could have been built by a bunch of people that likely couldn't get together and agree on anything.

 

That would, very commonly, disagree with eachother just for an excuse to oppose them. I think Bioware's done an OK job of depicting how utterly self-destructive this game's Empire is when the typical Sith are being typical about themselves, but I posit that they had to get to this point somehow.

 

It's easy to just say it's a thousand year old Empire, but how did it get to be even ten years old and spanning a continent on one world if it was as yoked to Stupid Evil and Chaotic Stupid as it absolutely is in game?

 

To me, it seems as though there absolutely has to be, as another poster said, at least some critical mass of both Sith and their Imperial minions that really are consistently and reliably good at building and maintaining Empire then being flagrantly evil at everything all the time.

 

This doesn't mean that they're necessarily nice people. There are a lot of ways that most Sith could be intensely evil while also being very good at sewing to the needs of civilization and Empire.

 

They're just not going to be the sorts that murder every skilled asset that ever fails at something, as but one example of how Sith are commonly depicted to kick the dog rather frequently whenever one is being looked at even in game.

 

Yes, it's very dramatic and showcases how evil they are, but realistically, you run out of skilled officers and servants soon. Yes, it's a sweeping display of dramatis persona to showcase yet another Sith killing all if it's servants because one of them didn't pour the tea right, but you can't build an empire out of that.

 

Ergo, the whole premise that Sith are supposed to be All Evil All The Time... it strains credulity far too much. It'd be totally fine as a premise if Sith were presented as an obscure and ultra-violent bunch of barbarians off on some world that probably wouldn't matter to anything any more than the barbaric rakkata eking out their existence on rakkata prime do.

 

But that's about it.

 

I know firsthand what kind of organization, consistency and teamwork it takes to make a project spanning a measly hundred or so people work effectively over mere months.

 

Making something the size of a small country work well over years and decades? That's some serious cat herding. That's not something that just kinda happens and just kinda works because of reasons.

 

Even a small, crappy country right here in reality is a daunting thing to really consider how it is at least attempting to work, and unless our imaginary people don't have anything even rudimentarily in common with real people, certain things just don't work in the building of an empire.

 

We've had more than a few to reference. How they formed, what made them successful, what ultimately made them fail. They're not homogeneous considerations at all, and certainly not static from beginning to end in what made them great and what corroded them down.

 

It might be very acceptable that the Sith of now in game have mostly all basically gone fallow, and are destroying the Empire with all of the internecine backstabbing and shortsighted ego mongering, but it can't have always been that way, or they'd never have arrived at the point of having a galactic-scale Empire in the first place.

 

They'd still be running around on some grotty little world, probably being as violently savage as the Incans, Mayans and many other of our own Empire civilizations of old were, with strong prevalences for blood sacrifices for pretty much every reason imaginable.

 

As for what this has to do with Vaylin, well... she's been depicted quite forcefully as extra-aloof puppy kicking Stupid Evil so far. It's believable, to my thinking, though I never find these sorts of characters the least bit interesting.

 

Any I'm simply of the wrong sexual persuasion to apparently be as ensnared by her pixels as some CLEARLY are. To that, I say .. Well done, Bioware.

 

They know at least some of their audience well!

[Isnogut]

Ok, this just got weird....

 

Valkorian *stops time* "you're not doing this right, accept my power...."

Hush, hush, he doesn't stop time, but bolster your thoughts for a short moment of time. In this time you get to talk to him. It's simply like you think at light speed for a moment. Kinda same thing as the visions and the force seeing of the Force users in Star Wars.

 

Jaessa is very much a Sith. There's no specific manipulation quotient you need to meet to qualify as a Sith.

And that's the reason why the old Empire lost. Same wrong interpretation of the code as in the Time of the Brotherhood. This kind of Pseudosith is nothing more than a simple Darksider. She has absolutely no idea what it means to be Sith. ...well to be fair, she doesn't seem to understand anything either way. She is at both versions quite naive.

 

I would disagree to a point with this logic as the movies themselves, haven’t read many of the book myself, the Empire is based off the Rule of Two. There are never more than the Emperor and Dark Vader in the episode's 4-6

 

So the empire basically has a King, and his enforcer and then the military, moff's etc

 

While SW:ToR has the full Dark Council and The Rule of Two hasn't been implemented I agree

Hold your horses. There are only 2 SITH LORDS, Master and Apprentice. This doesn't mean at all there are no Force wielding minions. Those minions, like the Hands of Palpatine and the Inquisitors in the Star Wars Rebels TAS, have little understanding of the true power of the Force and have even more little knowledge what a Sith really is and what he/she might be capable of.

 

In the TOR Universe this is quite torn up. Most of the Sith we met here are actually nothing more than elitists, snobs and Darksiders, or simply Force wielders, who assume what the right way may to be a Sith. However only a very small fraction I would call true Sith Lords. Vitiate is now clearly one of this kind. Are our alter egos in the game? Sadly they are only pretenders. I would even go so far to call them washed up for being Pegi 13. And I think Vaylin has more in common with a real Sith Lord, than our Sith toons.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Isnogut