The beauty of rage

[Alec_Fortescue]

Unfortunatelly it is still not worth bringing jugs into team rated with current meta...

 

LoL at the teams queuing with tank-spec assassins in place of dps... Their aoe is MASSIVE and greater than dedicated DPSers'. GG Bioware :l

Edited November 1, 2015 by Alec_Fortescue

[Anishor]

yeah, I think rage will do decent in yolos and regs but if you want to play rage in g-ranked, make a Mara version of your toon.

[jedi_newb]

I like what you're doing, breaking down the rotation like that is actually very helpful and we have a lot of new jugs\guards atm that will find that invaluable.

 

Can I ask, why, specifically you clip ravage at 2.7 seconds? I've seen this a few times, don't know exactly why.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Can I ask, why, specifically you clip ravage at 2.7 seconds? I've seen this a few times, don't know exactly why.

 

I originally started clipping ravage with vicious slash with only .2 or .3 seconds remaining for attaining max ravage dps. This sounds strange I know, but ravage is quirky, it depends on the number of crits in its channel. What I found was that if I clipped with Vslash, it would even the full damage potential. In essence Vslash is the only ability that does this.

 

The reason why you would want to clip ravage in general with any other attack, is to apply its last tick before the animation is completed. When combined with a touch of alacrity, clipping ravage allows you to secure your next move a bit sooner than intended. Once again, this isn't a game breaking advantage, it's just icing on the cake for die-hard jugs/guards.

[Torvai]

Can I ask, why, specifically you clip ravage at 2.7 seconds? I've seen this a few times, don't know exactly why.

 

I think Dethlas answer may be confusing so... In short, Ravage is, without alac, a 3 second channel with 3 ticks of damage. The third damage ticks occurs at 2.7 seconds, not at the 3 sec mark. So the .3 seconds of animation are wasted in regards to dps. With alacrity this shifts mor towards ~2.5, depending on hoch much alac you have.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

The following concepts and ideas are a result of playing a juggernaut since launch. I've always been an avid defender of the class and have enjoyed all aspects of juggernaut game play, even when the times were rough. I've never been top ranked in any season, but I do well. That said, I'd enjoy the opportunity to spar with the top ranked jugs/guards, so that I may perhaps learn new techniques and test myself against steep competition. I urge you all to share that same "always a student" mindset.

 

I'll touch on a few basic concepts that can not be overstated, then I'll talk about a few Rage dps "Combos".

 

 

Soresu

 

 

How many of you even have Soresu up on your quickbars?

 

I want to see all jugs/guards entering Soresu Form before accepting the Arena pop. Yes, this includes both Rage and Vengeance players. The reasons for entering an arena in Soresu are mainly the following:

 

• Confusion. The enemy team won't know what spec you are actually playing.
   
  
• You're in Soresu... The defensive capabilities are very good against incoming damage and it will force the enemy team to reconsider their attack focus strategies.
  

 

Let's take a look at what Soresu actually yields:

• 46.5% damage reduction.
  
• 16% extra reduction on internal/elemental damage
  
• 8% defense chance
  

 

When these passives are combined with your defensive cooldowns and adrenal, you are actually quite durable, and moderately capable of sustaining a substantial focus attempt, especially if equipped with a shield offhand(will elaborate later).

 

The goal is to switch to your chosen offensive form, when your intuition and round progression warrants it. Soresu form will decrease your damage output overall by 13%, so it has drawbacks that come with the superior survivability. It's an acceptable trade-off when you are able to switch saber forms safely. I highly encourage you all to enable keybinds now, that allow you to switch saber forms effortlessly in the ring. Practise this daily on your training dummy, and in sparring against other pvp'ers.

 

 

 

Taunts

 

 

Taunting always has been extremely important, but even more now in 4.0. Everyone has greater health pools, and *greater damage*. Think about that for a second. A taunt decreases a target's damage for 6 seconds, by 30%...that's huge considering the damage numbers flying around out there. For example, you could reduced a relic proc auto crit aimed at a friendly player by upwards on 8k to 9k, simply by taking the time to apply a single taunt. I have yet to meet another dps sin, jug or pt that has had superior protection values than mine in an arena, ever. I stand behind what I say, and I'm proud of those numbers win or lose. Be sure to keybind your taunts as well.

 

 

 

Rage Combos

 

Here are a few quick combos that I like to employ. For now I'll simply list a few, add more, and then elaborate their usage with updates. The goal here is to simply practice them individually until they are smooth and second nature. Then the next step is to start combining them, by selecting the right filler moves which in turn depend on relic procs. Properly identifying your relic procs and internal damage modifiers, has never been more important.

 

 

Rude Awakening

Force Charge -- Vicious Throw -- Force Scream (Avg 15-18k)

• -quick damage application
  
• -resource self-sufficient
  
• -AutoCrit Proc
  

 

Welcome Home

Sundering Assault -- Furious Strike (Avg 15-20k)

• -double debuff to maximize further damage(20% armor -- 5%melee bonus)
  
• -resource sufficiency when paired
  

 

Korriban Kiss

Force Crush -- Ravage -- Raging Burst (Avg 33-38k)

• -snare enables full Ravage channel
  
• -last tick of Ravage and Raging Burst are to be executed at exact same time
  

 

Snakebite

Force Crush -- Obliterate -- Raging Burst (Avg 22-29k)

• -allows good skirmish damage from melee
  
• -snaps back in with leap, Raging Burst lands exact same time as Force Crush's final tick.
  

 

Skullcrusher

Ravage "clipped at 2.7 seconds" -- Furious Strike (Avg 25-32k)

• -devastating if final ravage hit crits followed by an auto-crit
  

 

...

 

 

The common strategy I see is that many will lead with Raging Burst right after charge. This is perfectly ok because it hits hard and also grants an extra 5% damage reduction. They'll use Enrage during the charge to enable shockwave, and will still have enough rage resources to execute a Furious Strike. This is also ok because there is a 5% melee debuff granted with Furious Strike's use.

 

It's recommended to begin like this for quick upfront burst. This is fine if your target isn't under the influence of a self-defeating damage reduction. Meaning...you charge on a Sage or Sorc that's stunned..chances are your burst will be automatically reduced by 30% due to their defensives, additionally you may be taunted upon your charge. The following combo is great fun for regs, but derping isn't the subject of my intent.

 

I typically try not to lead with these two attacks simply because I prefer set-up attacks waiting for my Relics, and additionally, a jug is usually stunned immediately after a charge. I also try not to use enrage with leap at start of fight, because I prefer to save it for a clutch lockdown on a fleeing opponent. That said, I will however use Enrage instead of saving it, If I see a double relic proc for example... when you see those opportunities, you take them.

 

These are just some battle perspectives, but the pure "apply dps" Combo approach would look something like this:

 

Ultimate Power

Force Charge -- Enrage -- Raging Burst -- Force Scream -- Furious Strike -- Vicious Throw(Avg 47-59k)

• -should command a relic procs for finishers easily
  
• -elusiveness with 50% speed buff, allowing great skirmish options
  

 

Updated with some more content and ideas.

[Dalfurend]

Just to put my 2 cents in, the best burst damage "combo" in Rage right now is probably

 

Crush > Raging Burst > Furious Strike (the big damage all happens within the span of a GCD - Ideally this is how you want to use your autocrit imo.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Just to put my 2 cents in, the best burst damage "combo" in Rage right now is probably

 

Crush > Raging Burst > Furious Strike (the big damage all happens within the span of a GCD - Ideally this is how you want to use your autocrit imo.

 

 

Niiice. Snag the average damage values and give that combo a name. I'll toss it up.

[GrandLordMenace]

Niiice. Snag the average damage values and give that combo a name. I'll toss it up.

 

Sandwich of DEEEEEEEATH (With cheese)

 

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Sandwich of DEEEEEEEATH (With cheese)

 

 

haha...geezuz, you vengeance-heads never change.

[RodneyMcNeely]

yeah, I think rage will do decent in yolos and regs but if you want to play rage in g-ranked, make a Mara version of your toon.

Really? Is the difference that noticeable?

 

And I'm wondering about survival and mobility, as well. Does Rage or Fury come out better in this regard? Have a Knight that I'm ready to pick an AC for, but not sure which way to go.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

 

And I'm wondering about survival and mobility, as well. Does Rage or Fury come out better in this regard? Have a Knight that I'm ready to pick an AC for, but not sure which way to go.

 

 

Man I tell ya, there's been times I've wished I had force camo and especially twin sabre throw. It's funny, I'll see the opportunity for pure damage application in front of me at times, that my marauder could only dish out. But...

 

It boils down to playstyles actually.

 

Do you want straight up balls to wall damage derp? Go marauder.

 

Do you want a lethal class that can throw out nice damage, but has far greater dynamics? Go jug.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

 

 

Soresu

 

 

How many of you even have Soresu up on your quickbars?

 

I want to see all jugs/guards entering Soresu Form before accepting the Arena pop. Yes, this includes both Rage and Vengeance players. The reasons for entering an arena in Soresu are mainly the following:

 

• Confusion. The enemy team won't know what spec you are actually playing.
   
  
• You're in Soresu... The defensive capabilities are very good against incoming damage and it will force the enemy team to reconsider their attack focus strategies.
  

 

Let's take a look at what Soresu actually yields:

• 46.5% damage reduction.
  
• 16% extra reduction on internal/elemental damage
  
• 8% defense chance
  

 

When these passives are combined with your defensive cooldowns and adrenal, you are actually quite durable, and moderately capable of sustaining a substantial focus attempt, especially if equipped with a shield offhand(will elaborate later).

 

The goal is to switch to your chosen offensive form, when your intuition and round progression warrants it. Soresu form will decrease your damage output overall by 13%, so it has drawbacks that come with the superior survivability. It's an acceptable trade-off when you are able to switch saber forms safely. I highly encourage you all to enable keybinds now, that allow you to switch saber forms effortlessly in the ring. Practise this daily on your training dummy, and in sparring against other pvp'ers.

 

 

 

Just a quick update on this topic. I've found this approach still effective, key binding my swap to Shii-cho stance instantly when needed. The main objective still stands. Hilariously, there is still occasional confusion surrounding Soresu. They automatically think you're there to apply guard lol. It's absolutely astounding for players this far in the game to not realize that jugs can switch forms instantly for defensive reasons exclusively.

 

At any rate, if your team is bad, soresu won't make an ounce of difference, but the point is, you'll survive a suspected focus attack a bit longer, while your team "hopefully" mops them up. The best defence is still a good offence, so understand that by starting out soresu form, it's just a temporary illusion. You still need to work out an aggressive attack strategy with your team.

 

I still encourage jugs to adopt and enable the quickness of switching forms, for the confusion it spreads in arenas is definitely worth it. Don't attempt this method if you are unable to switch back to your damage form appropriately and instantly upon demand.

[jamesaff]

min/maxd my guard last night those 24 k crits are soooooo sexy.

[Masarugi]

min/maxd my guard last night those 24 k crits are soooooo sexy.

 

I just started to PVP when 4.0 was released. I too thoroughly enjoy the Rage spec. I have gotten all the end level pvp gear and fully aug'd with overkill(power).

 

My question is, in order to get the most out of my gear from a pure dps perspective what mods/enhancements should I replace to min/max my gear?

[AchillesStark]

Rage is certainly more viable now in 4.0, a large part due to the dispatch after leap utility. I enjoy playing it very much. However, the central issue from before 4.0 is still there. There isnt a penalty for chain stunning a rage jugg compared to other classes. Pt, sins, and sorcs all have 30% damage reduction when stunned. If you stun those guys, you pay a huge damage penalty. On the other hand, stunning a rage jugg is super easy since there is no cc immunity or penalty. Even when white barred, rage juggs only have 10 sec, of immunity. That isnt enough to outlive focus fire.

 

In arenas where pt, sorcs and sins are everywhere, the ideal target for a stun lock and burst is a rage jugg.

 

Also, skank tanking is pretty crappy in rage spec. Resource issue is so much more severe. Venge skank tanking still does lots of damage with vengeful thrist and dot spread.

Edited November 7, 2015 by AchillesStark

[Dethla-Hadyn]

In arenas where pt, sorcs and sins are everywhere, the ideal target for a stun lock and burst is a rage jugg.

 

.

 

Oh I know, oh too well what this condition is like, hence why I've been advocating the use of Soresu upfront, then switching when the round begins to unfold. It all depends on the class make up on the enemy team from what I've found.

 

Many would ask...why bother? Why not just play a fury marauder? Or better yet, why not play a cheeseball class like assassin. The answer is... you're a freaking Jug, baby. There's just no other way to say it.

 

Juggin' aint easy, but the victories are always much much sweeter.

[helpmewin]

Rage still one of the easiest targets to kill in arena. Still have very big problems with derp(DOTs/Cleave DMG) and still need 1 more DCD or at least flat DR buff, not 5% on 6 sec(Its a joke mostly needed for theorycrafters statistic). IMO. Fun? - Yes in regs. Viable? - No.

As i write somewhere only juggernauts have so big difference between 2 DPS specs in survivability. Dunno why. I have only 1 explanation - vengeance whined their buffs. If we look at other classes for example - sins atm more survivability in deception burst spec, PT's - more in AP burst spec, even Pyro with chanel ability as vengeance have less survivability. Sorcs - yes better in sustained madness coz of self heals, but difference atm not so big as juggernauts have. E.t.c.

P.S. Im not vengeance hater, just prefer burst specs.

Edited November 7, 2015 by helpmewin

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Well it's not so much to ask, but another defensive cool down, would put us into the cheeseball division. However I think they should reinstate the self heal on intercede. The programming is already in place, that task shouldn't be too hard, and would help us out. It wouldn't throw us over the top either.

[helpmewin]

Another DCD's don't put us into super TOP, but pull out from World of Pain mod wich we are used. SH on intercede again for theorycrafting statistic. Rage need mitigation - 5% on 6 sec is a joke. I'm still switch stances to survive as i do it 3+ years ago - rage survivability issue still not solved. But nowdays stancedacing in Rage not only deprives 30% armor penetration as it was earlier.

Grp 4*4 - "hey guys i can't do fast swap, coz 1 guy theorycrafted my survivability on intercede SH - i need use it on CD". 1 bad example. This ability used depends on situation, even if u do that it will for exmaple "restore 20% hp, can't occure once every 30 sec" - no1 garantee dat this will be usefull in time in PvP.

If u think dat SH buff is more balanced for this spec instead of mitigation - then add heals on mass taunt - every 45 sec.

Edited November 7, 2015 by helpmewin

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Well, ahem, I will agree that the penalties of having all perks attached to Shii-cho, and then losing them when switching to soresu, is totally out of line. It's already resource starved as it is in this condition. *That should be remedied as well.

[jedi_newb]

Which adrenal would you suggest for pvp for rage juggs?

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Which adrenal would you suggest for pvp for rage juggs?

 

You can't use adrenals in pvp anymore. Only the war zone 15% damage reduction. For pve? Probably critical, but I'd use alacrity.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

The following concepts and ideas are a result of playing a juggernaut since launch. I've always been an avid defender of the class and have enjoyed all aspects of juggernaut game play, even when the times were rough. I've never been top ranked in any season, but I do well. That said, I'd enjoy the opportunity to spar with the top ranked jugs/guards, so that I may perhaps learn new techniques and test myself against steep competition. I urge you all to share that same "always a student" mindset.

 

I'll touch on a few basic concepts that can not be overstated, then I'll talk about a few Rage dps "Combos".

 

 

Soresu

 

 

How many of you even have Soresu up on your quickbars?

 

I want to see all jugs/guards entering Soresu Form before accepting the Arena pop. Yes, this includes both Rage and Vengeance players. The reasons for entering an arena in Soresu are mainly the following:

 

• Confusion. The enemy team won't know what spec you are actually playing.
   
  
• You're in Soresu... The defensive capabilities are very good against incoming damage and it will force the enemy team to reconsider their attack focus strategies.
  

 

Let's take a look at what Soresu actually yields:

• 46.5% damage reduction.
  
• 16% extra reduction on internal/elemental damage
  
• 8% defense chance
  

 

When these passives are combined with your defensive cooldowns and adrenal, you are actually quite durable, and moderately capable of sustaining a substantial focus attempt, especially if equipped with a shield offhand(will elaborate later).

 

The goal is to switch to your chosen offensive form, when your intuition and round progression warrants it. Soresu form will decrease your damage output overall by 13%, so it has drawbacks that come with the superior survivability. It's an acceptable trade-off when you are able to switch saber forms safely. I highly encourage you all to enable keybinds now, that allow you to switch saber forms effortlessly in the ring. Practise this daily on your training dummy, and in sparring against other pvp'ers.

 

 

 

Taunts

 

 

Taunting always has been extremely important, but even more now in 4.0. Everyone has greater health pools, and *greater damage*. Think about that for a second. A taunt decreases a target's damage for 6 seconds, by 30%...that's huge considering the damage numbers flying around out there. For example, you could reduced a relic proc auto crit aimed at a friendly player by upwards on 8k to 9k, simply by taking the time to apply a single taunt. I have yet to meet another dps sin, jug or pt that has had superior protection values than mine in an arena, ever. I stand behind what I say, and I'm proud of those numbers win or lose. Be sure to keybind your taunts as well.

 

 

 

Rage Combos

 

Here are a few quick combos that I like to employ. For now I'll simply list a few, add more, and then elaborate their usage with updates. The goal here is to simply practice them individually until they are smooth and second nature. Then the next step is to start combining them, by selecting the right filler moves which in turn depend on relic procs. Properly identifying your relic procs and internal damage modifiers, has never been more important.

 

 

Rude Awakening

Force Charge -- Vicious Throw -- Force Scream (Avg 15-18k)

• -quick damage application
  
• -resource self-sufficient
  
• -AutoCrit Proc
  

 

Welcome Home

Sundering Assault -- Furious Strike (Avg 15-20k)

• -double debuff to maximize further damage(20% armor -- 5%melee bonus)
  
• -resource sufficiency when paired
  

 

Korriban Kiss

Force Crush -- Ravage -- Raging Burst (Avg 33-38k)

• -snare enables full Ravage channel
  
• -last tick of Ravage and Raging Burst are to be executed at exact same time
  

 

Snakebite

Force Crush -- Obliterate -- Raging Burst (Avg 22-29k)

• -allows good skirmish damage from melee
  
• -snaps back in with leap, Raging Burst lands exact same time as Force Crush's final tick.
  

 

Skullcrusher

Ravage "clipped at 2.7 seconds" -- Furious Strike (Avg 25-32k)

• -devastating if final ravage hit crits followed by an auto-crit
  

 

Ultimate Power

Force Charge -- Enrage -- Raging Burst -- Force Scream -- Furious Strike -- Vicious Throw(Avg 47-59k)

• -should command a relic procs for finishers easily
  
• -elusiveness with 50% speed buff, allowing great skirmish options
  

 

Contributions

 

Your information uploaded here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PvP Mindset

 

 

 

Sizing up the competition before the round begins, is essential. You'll need to examine the other classes/specs, as well as who the likely focus target may be on your team. Regardless If you suspect it may be you, again, I urge all jugs to simply enter Soresu form *regardless of spec*, in an effort to disillusion your team. I change specs occasionally, the enemy team doesn't need to know what damage form I've selected to play that game. Once again, this "Soresu Effect" will really take hold when everyone gets on board.

 

Against Stealth

 

If you see alot of stealth on the other team, you will definitely want to enter Soresu if you are the only Rage jug on your team. If the enemy team has selected a different focus target, other than you, immediately switch to offencive stance and begin taunting. TAUNTING is your primary objective, before using your charge. Intercede to your victimized teammate, to offer additional damage reduction against their assault. These two moves are your primary objectives. They are way more important than jumping in and applying a rotation against either deflection, or forceshroud. Operatives are too hard to lockdown, but they can be pressured during a stun. Use *your* stuns to peel the enemies off of your teammate, *after* you have firstly taunted then interceded.

 

So the priorities for a Rage jug in arenas against stealth, when you are not being focused first are:

-Taunt

-Intercede

-CC

-Apply Damage.

 

 

Common Opening Strategy Discussions

 

 

The common strategy I see is that many will lead with Raging Burst right after charge. This is perfectly ok because it hits hard and also grants an extra 5% damage reduction. They'll use Enrage during the charge to enable shockwave, and will still have enough rage resources to execute a Furious Strike. This is also ok because there is a 5% melee debuff granted with Furious Strike's use.

 

It's recommended to begin like this for quick upfront burst. This is fine if your target isn't under the influence of a self-defeating damage reduction. Meaning...you charge on a Sage or Sorc that's stunned..chances are your burst will be automatically reduced by 30% due to their defensives, additionally you may be taunted upon your charge. The following combo is great fun for regs, but derping isn't the subject of my intent.

 

I typically try not to lead with these two attacks simply because I prefer set-up attacks waiting for my Relics, and additionally, a jug is usually stunned immediately after a charge. I also try not to use enrage with leap at start of fight, because I prefer to save it for a clutch lockdown on a fleeing opponent. That said, I will however use Enrage instead of saving it, If I see a double relic proc for example... when you see those opportunities, you take them.

 

 

 

Updated with two new sections.

 

The first section is "Contributions". I find the most pretentious thing about most guides, is that someone basically *starts* one, and then there's page, after page, after page of information and/or disaggreements...basically it becomes too tedious to read through. With this guide, my goal is to include *your* contributions that we discuss on this thread, and then ultimately put your information up on the first page for an instant tally. This will serve as a much better guide to new readers because of this strategy.

 

The second section is PvP Mindset. I touched briefly on a Rage Jug's priority systems in arenas, and there will be much more to come. Please feel free to contribute your experiences and discoveries, so we can all make this thread, "The Best Juggernaut Thread Ever Written".

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

p.s., I received a few renders of my character in Exarch gear. I posted a link to one of them in my signature. Enjoy!

Edited November 9, 2015 by Dethla-Hadyn
spelling

[Dethla-Hadyn]

Just to put my 2 cents in, the best burst damage "combo" in Rage right now is probably

 

Crush > Raging Burst > Furious Strike (the big damage all happens within the span of a GCD - Ideally this is how you want to use your autocrit imo.

 

Have you given a name with some damage values yet? I'd like to throw your combo up on the Contributions section.