Make Decorations available in the Collection

[Goologne]

With Patch 3.3.1 it is possible to buy Cartel Market Decorations for the guildfor a small credit amount.

 

Now each guild can decorate their flagship an stronghold like they want without monetary borders.

 

This option should be also available for private strongholds, but not for credits, but for cartell coins like in the collection we allready have. So we can unlock for example one decoration for 200 or 400 credits like we have it now with armors or mounts.

 

This would give players more opportunitys to decorate their stronghold like they are could imagine, but are at the moment not able too, because sometimes you want to have some decos 50 times but it is so rare an expensive over the GTM, that you can´t afford it. Like with rare and expensive Mounts or armors, but instead you don´t need them 49 more times.

 

So it makes also sense to include Cartell Market decorations to add in the collection menu.

 

Could we expect that in the near future or will we get an never ever answer to this suggestion?

 

The change for the Guild Decoration was a big step in the right direction and it would be perfect to have something like this for the personal strongholds and make this part of the game much more attractive.

[Theeko]

They won't make any $ if they did that, same goes for Dyes, will never happen

[Murder_Toys]

I would love for this to happn i hate buying revan states that cost me 2.5 mil each for a total of 10 mil . I would much rarther unlock them with CC at say 120cc each or 75k credits are SH are ghost towns because people don t have the money to fill em well.

[Theeko]

Yet people complain there are no credit sinks in game, this is one of them Decorations and Dyes, if they take that away then it will just hurt Swtor's income bad Edited August 19, 2015 by Theeko

[DOHboy]

I would love for this to happn i hate buying revan states that cost me 2.5 mil each for a total of 10 mil . I would much rarther unlock them with CC at say 120cc each or 75k credits are SH are ghost towns because people don t have the money to fill em well.

 

Rare items are meant to be rare, people charge those numbers because the drop rates may only be 1:20 or less. Making them unlockable would essentially make them worthless since once a few hit, people could unlock unlimited numbers of them and remove most of the demand.

 

lets keep rare things rare and let them keep the game open.

[Zharik]

Yet people complain there are no credit sinks in game, this is one of them Decorations and Dyes, if they take that away then it will just hurt Swtor's income bad

 

They are not really credit sinks if the credits are going to another player...

 

Unless you are talking about the 6% GTN fee?

[ScarletBlaze]

If they do this I would suggest:

 

Credits for those that don't want to use the cartel coins and instead of paying a one time fee for it you would pay xx amount per item you unlock in the decoration tab.

 

For the more unique ones it should be more expensive. I would not think a centerpiece that is a rare drop would be 25k or 50k. It should be more in line with what it is and how rare it is.

 

Cartel coins could be another option but again not to open the limit but per item as they did with the guild. This way it keeps "credit sink" if you will.

[SteveTheCynic]

So we have a pair of in-game solutions that have been proposed to solve a problem that cannot be solved by any in-game mechanism.

 

The problem is entitlement-ist greed, and no in-game mechanism can solve that.

 

The claimed problem, on the other hand, is that decorations have to be unlocked one by one, and super-rare CM pack decorations must be bought on the RNG or for oodles of credits on the GTN, making unlocking more than one incredibly expensive. Well, all I can say is that this >< is the world's smallest violin, and it is playing a sad song just for you.

 

Let's make this clear: putting decorations in normal Collections makes it possible to acquire one in the normal way and then hatch it out of Collections to register as many as you want, making nonsense of the "Super Rare" category.

 

The second solution is not significantly better. It effectively puts the super-rare pack decorations on the CM (possibly only once I've bought one already, depends on how you interpret the idea).

 

Overall, I vote "no". It isn't a problem, and in fact "solving"' it creates a problem of what I'll call "greed creep" by analogy to the "power creep" that all MMPORPGs are subject to. This is the phenomenon whereby people who do some hard thing when the game is first out (e.g. the Doppleganger mission in Guild Wars 1, which relies on the player finding a specific type of gimmick build) becomes easier as the game goes on (e.g. the Doppleganger mission, where the so-called PvE-only skills make it trivial to kill the Doppleganger in a couple of seconds without even taking any damage at all). Power creep affects all MMORPGs (GW1 perhaps less than others because there is no power creep that happens because of the rising level cap and the gear elevator effect - GW1 has neither), but it is important to avoid the effects of greed creep - it has adverse effects on the player-to-player economy, and cheapens the significance of some expenditure-related achievement. Can you imagine how easy it would be to make 100% on all four strongholds if one of these solutions was implemented?

 

TL;DR. Short version: difficult things should be difficult.

[Goologne]

I agree with StevetheCynic, difficult things should be difficult and with DOHboy that rare things should be rare.

 

On the other hand with this idea of rare things, the collection option we now have would have been a bad idea, because it allows you to have super rare mounts, colour cristalls and armors, emotes ect. at all your chars if you like. But it is not a bad idea at all. To unlock it in the collection costs cartell coins and no credits, which is good for the revenue of the game. It makes the whole cartell market thing much more attractive, because of this option it makes people buying the cartell packs because they have in mind, that if they lucky to find inside a ultra rare mount or whatever, they can use it in their whole legacy.

 

Same would be with decorations. But the difference with chars and hooks in a stronghold ist the point, that you can have 50 of each item, but of course you normaly don´t have 50 chars spread on different servers.

 

To still make a decoration special there must be a different unlock system. At the moment it is possible to buy certain decorations over the cartell market, for example the luxury hanging lamp for 90 cartell coins. So my suggestion here would be, that the collection unlock for decorations would not be unlimited like it is now, you have to pay cartell coins for each copy. So when you want to have a copy of shacled crystall sconce, you have to pay 90 coins. This would be a way to give people a reason to buy cartell coins for a better looking stronghold instead of the lottery system with the cartell packs. I use the schacled crystall sconce as example, because it fits perfect for a sith stronghold, but it is so rare that you only find 4 of them in the GTN on my server (Vanjervalis Chain) and each cost 1.4 million credits. Not much when you would like to have this kind of lamp on both stairways in Dromund Kaas stronghold on each wall hook.

 

I guess that Bioware would make more money with unlocking copys of allready unlocked decorations than to stuck with the lottery system we have now. Theeko refers in the first reply on this thread to the dye system, but even there you find from time to time the cartell market offer for white / white and black / black dyes.

 

The more comfort they would give to decorate your stronghold, the more opportunitys you have for an individuell look (beyond the small super rich playerbase) and the more attractive would it be to create your ingame "home" and give people a reason to invest real money in their hobby.

 

It would be cool to hear something from the official side if they could imagine to bring this somehow to life.

[Theeko]

I vote no, if they were going to implement decorations & Dyes into collection unlocks it will halve or even triple (possibly even more) a loss of income on buying packs.

 

Yes it technically is a credit sink due to the fact that even if you swap credits in game to someone that you bought the decor from you could have resold that decor too but instead people use it as well.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Theeko

[Goologne]

@ Theeko: I didn´t suggest to include dyes in the collection.

 

I agree with Zharik that if credits just change the owner, we could not speak technically about a credit sink. What was implement with the last patch, to buy several copys of decoration for the guild over credits, that is indeed a credit sink, because these credits are techniccally out of the game / market like they was with buying strongholds and guild flagships with credits.

 

The argument of a theoretically loss of income of buying packs is allready proofing wrong regarding the armors and mounts from the collection we allready have. We still see cartell packs in the GTN for several million credits. And refering to my example with the shackled crystall sconce, it doesn´t matter how resellers of cartell market items can make money with this, there still just 4 of them in the market on my server. And when I would like to decorate the stronghold with 20 of them, doesn´t make me spend 1.4 million credits for just one. But with the opportunity to buy copys with cartell coins of this specific decoration, I have a reason to invest so much cerdits on just one item to unlock it. That´s the way it allready works out on armors, mounts ect.. I see no reason why this would not work with decorations.

 

You could bring up that argument on the decorations from guild flagships and strongholds. It makes a different if people spend millions of credits for buying copies for their guild in numbers which are not exists in the market from "original" decorations. Same with buying copies for personal strongholds over cartell coins. Rare things keep still rare on the GTN. It doesn´t affect their frequency on the market in any ways if you could buy additional copys for your guild or yourself.

[Theeko]

So your saying that whoever's for this doesn't want to work as hard as others have that actually added multiple decors by paying the market prices.

 

It seems that everyone just wants to be given stuff free every single time someone complains about adding things to the collection tab, there is already enough as it is on it no need to add anymore.

 

Also I have used 5 revan masks before the collections was even noted on the forums and I was pissed but I got over it, so we should just buy decorations the way it is intended now. If you really want those decorations for your house, save up for them or wait till the pack comes around again like everyone.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Theeko

[ScarletBlaze]

Can you imagine how easy it would be to make 100% on all four strongholds if one of these solutions was implemented?

 

As it doesn't matter for me what they do with the decorations, I have and will be able to get the items I want for my boyfriend and my strongholds I want to touch on the last part of this statement.

 

Have you visited any strongholds? If not, it would amazed you how easy it can someone can decorate to 100% without the rare items and it doesn't affect the 100% conquest bonus. They can throw things anywhere and achieve the 100% bonus or they can , like me, take their time and decorate and still achieve the 100% decorating bonus. The items in your decorating inventory does not affect your housing bonus.

 

So for the comment how easy it can be to decorate 4 strongholds at 100% for some who only want it for the bonus very easily if they don't care what it looks like.

 

What it does affect with the items is your prestige but the only thing I have figured out that does is, if you list your stronghold, put your stronghold closer to the top. Even then the only time it is a high prestiage unlock (100) is when you first unlock the time the rest of the time your prestiage is only gained by (2) when you add more to it.

[SteveTheCynic]

I've been thinking about this a bit more, and...

* Let's look first of all at e.g. an armour set, the Humble Hero, for example. If I want all my characters and all their non-droid companions to look like humble heroes, I buy one copy of the set, equip it to unlock it in that character's legacy, and then pay one legacy unlock fee to unlock it for everyone else. I can now check out 22 times 5 = 110 copies of the set (22 characters, and four non-droids per character) without paying anything else. This is more than twice the usual 50 copies of a decoration that I can have registered with the system. So the argument about income loss is significantly weakened.

* We must still take into account the argument about rarity and making sure that difficult things remain difficult. In essence, there is nothing we can do to defuse this argument, aside from declaring that we do not value having difficult things around. Me, I deny such a disvaluation. Difficult things, whether they involve grinding my ((tush)) off to get the credits to pay for a valued item like one of these decorations or something else, are (or should be) valued because they allow us to demonstrate the amount of work we were prepared to do to achieve them.

* Diminishing the difficulty of something diminishes its value. Just ask anyone who played GW1 across the March 3, 2011 update about what it did to the Drunkard and Legendary Defender of Ascalon titles.

[Goologne]

@Theeko Sorry for not meet your expactation of a stereotype of player you describe with your last post mention some players don´t want to work as hard as others. I have spent over 100 million credits for uniquie cartell packs decorations for my Nar Shadda stronghold and to get together over 100 million credits is sure pretty hard work.

 

I bring up an example which make sense. Of course to keep your point of view, you can ignore but it doesn´t change the facts. Rare decorations still keep rare with a collection option. Which means to unlock them, you still have to pay a high market price. Of course you don´t have to buy them 20 times, but at least there are not 20 on the market just 4 in my example. And within last week there was a decoration bundle on the market and it didn´t change the frequency of this decoration neither it would change big, when the cartell pack comes out again, because rare items have the characteristic to be rare.

 

I get your point with the 5 Revan masks and I would be piss too in this case, same with all those players who spend millions of crdits for unique decorations for their guild. Otherwise only a small elite of players like you I guess wanted to have more than one mask and was able to afford it. But I was discussing the argument of the lost of generall income for reselling rare items and the market still not broke with the collection we have and will also not broke with reselling rare decorations if they would be included.

 

Surpisingly your post included also the "everyone wants to be given stuff free" complain. Hm, really wondering about that. How can buying each copy of an decoration for example 90 cartell coins, so we talking here about real money and not ingame currency, and the "everyone wants to be given stuff free"argument can match together?

 

@ SteveThe Cynic: You have read that I use your argument about rare and difficult to get things for making a difference between the current collection and the copy system for decoration where you have spend 90 or more cartell coins for each (!) copy? Because in this case I can´t see a disvaluation at all, because you must play real money for each copy, which makes it as valuable as when you buy it with ingame currency. That´s why your example with the humble hero armor doesn´t work, because you don´t have to pay for each copy. Nevertheless it is more realistic for the need of 20 or more specific kind of lamps in your stronghold than the use of one armor on all my chars and companions.

 

After all it would be still a business decision from the Developer. If they see a potential behind that idea, they will bring it to the market, if not, every things stay the same. In my opinion I see a lot potential for buying copys of unlocked decorations for cartell coins. And each increasing of real money turnarounds is good for everyone who wish the game a long live.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Goologne

[Theeko]

Problem with giving them such a low CC unlock per decor will hurt initial sales of the packs so bad that no one will want to purchase them at all anymore. Also yes I have also spent close to 1b or practically even more on my strongholds and decors, and would want my money back for those extra ones I bought at market price tbh.

[Goologne]

ONE Billion on decorations??!!! :eek:

 

That is sure a big investment, ten times bigger than my 100+ million credits. Again, it is different with revan masks, where you can unlock them once in the collection and makes it free for each additional copy. To have so many unlock with real money would Bioware make surely happy, which I think it would bring the earnings of the game to a higher level instead of decrease them.

 

I still don´t get the complain that you should get a refund of Ingame currency when other players spent real money for each decoration. Real money has still much more value then ingame currency.

 

I repeat it again what I wrote. We are not talking about to unlock a decoration for 90 cartell coins at one time and get the other 49 copys for free. I suggest to pay for EACH copy, which means 90 cartell coins x 49 which makes 4410 cartell coins total. I would not call 4410 coins a low CC unlock. I guess here is a big missunderstood going on at your side and also with SteveTheCynic too, because both of you seems to missed that I was talking about a different kind of collection where you have to pay for, again, EACH (!) copy.

 

Of course untill the idea would not be realised it is all just speculation. I am sure all these speculations on what happen with the sales of the packs come up with the intruducing of the collection option. I guess the plan behind that option was to sell more cartell packs then less. The reason behind that is pretty simple. The collection makes the buy of an cartell pack more valuable. Also it give people an additional reason to spend real money for making copys for the legacy, instead just spending a lot of credits on the GTN for the rare thing for a few wealthy players who can afford them, because with just an big ingame currency market you can´t make real money (maybe only the Gold Sellers).

[Theeko]

Oh I know you meant 90cc per decor unlock but still there would be no more need for people to buy packs anymore that contains decorations since there to many of them on the market place as it is

[MaximusRex]

Yet people complain there are no credit sinks in game, this is one of them Decorations and Dyes, if they take that away then it will just hurt Swtor's income bad

 

You still need to get the initial decoration from someplace, so Hypercrates would still be the main source, and the suggestion is that further unlocks cost Cartel Coins. I'm not seeing how this would hurt SWTOR's income.

[Theeko]

You still need to get the initial decoration from someplace, so Hypercrates would still be the main source, and the suggestion is that further unlocks cost Cartel Coins. I'm not seeing how this would hurt SWTOR's income.

 

People buy packs to gamble on, not to collection unlock stuff as the initial purpose of what the packs are for.

 

Once you claim one decoration that you didn't need to gamble on since you just bought it off the GTN the gambling part would just be killed off so therefore no one will have the incentive to buy anymore packs.

 

Also it will make it P2w to get the highest Prestige as well imo.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Theeko

[Goologne]

We must be still think realistic in numbers. Of course the gamble factor is important, but without the collection they implemented now, the return for your real money is too weak to make cartell packs attractive for the masses and not the ones who are rich people in real life. Thats why we have this system now and the playerbase surely don´t want to miss it.

 

For decorations your need for the good example with wall lamps is much higher as for an specific armor, which is without collection mainly totaly ok for one char only. To buy over 30 (!) hypercrats just to gamble out the amount of that specific kind of wall lamp you want 20 or more times is not a realistic scenario (if you don´t can call Donald Trump your uncle ). To buy two or three (which is also a decent amount of real money) hypercrats for the chance to get one of these lamps out and spent another few thousands additional cartell coins for some copys is the way it normaly should fit in an average high price hobby.

 

So MaximusRex point of view hit the nail when he wrote that it wont hurt SWTOR´s income.

 

BTW, the whole cartell market is just a decorative thing and has nothing to do with P2W, because even Prestige Points are not making your char stronger in any ways. And for 20 additional copys for real money, you get just 40 points, so not a big deal at all, because the 100 prestige for the first unlock makes still the difference.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Goologne

[Theeko]

Prestige also reflects something in game though to make your legacy better than others to be higher up on the boards, just like pvp but in a pve way

[Goologne]

Well intersting thought. But a stronghold board doesn´t count as much as the pve rank list.

 

I guess nobody buy 50 of each decorations which are now available over the cartell market like the luxury hanging lamp for 90 cc not for the use, but only to squeeze out of them the last prestige points for the board, which sounds crazy in my ears. There are so many ways to improve your prestige points like each OP boss in each mode brings you 118 prestige points. And for that argument we have allready a "P2W" situation for the stronghold board, when you have enough credits to unlock all rooms of 4 strongholds and decorate them to 100%, plus buy as many decoration as you can, to push each decoration to 50 unlocks just for the extra points.

 

I think Bioware would then prefer the real money way, for a "competition" like that.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Goologne

[XiamaraSimi]

I dont see them doing it. If they did how would they price each "copy" price? What they think is a good price will probably piss at least a few off (remember the unlock prices on a few pack sets a while back?)

 

If it was 600cc to unlock a rancor mount, what will an ultra rare deco cost to offset people not buying more packs to get another one? 1200cc? Some deco unlocks for guilds are 1m each. Imagine the tantrums if someone had to pay 1m to get a copy of something for their personal SH.

 

Theres no happy solution here, people will complain that whatever price they pick is "too high, gouging, et cetera"

 

I spent 9m after the patch donating decos to the guild, only one of them was a 1m price tag. (yes im a deco junky, think im only missing 2 OP decos, i think im at about 3.5b invested in my strongholds... yes thats a B )

Edited August 20, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Theeko]

Yeah its already bad enough they implemented the donation to guild from CM decors now after people probably dropped 100m's of decors in it before this came out (as a guild).