Is level 55 HM/NIM ops in a very Awkward position now?

[JouerTue]

taken away the dps checks, the old nims are really easy, it's just a matter of learning the mechanics.

also if you do hm or sm 16 and you don't wipe it's nice credits..

[Slowpokeking]

taken away the dps checks, the old nims are really easy, it's just a matter of learning the mechanics.

also if you do hm or sm 16 and you don't wipe it's nice credits..

Yeah, easy enough to let pugs ask for your achievement or they don't take you.

[Khevar]

Latest? TFB came out on Sep 2012, which is 3 years ago, DF and DP came out more than 2 years ago. Even the latest one, DF and DP NIM came out on June 2014, which was more than 1 year ago and we got a digital xpc which increased the level by 5. Why shouldn't these 2-3 years old content with mostly garbage drop be very easy to players?

There was a time when operations were released frequently. Between 1.0 at launch (Dec 2011) and 2.4 (Oct 2013) this game saw the release of KP, EC, TfB, SnV, DF and DP. That's an average of 3-4 months between releases.

 

Had this trend continued, there would have been 6 more operations to chose from and your argument would hold more water.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

There was a time when operations were released frequently. Between 1.0 at launch (Dec 2011) and 2.4 (Oct 2013) this game saw the release of KP, EC, TfB, SnV, DF and DP. That's an average of 3-4 months between releases.

 

Had this trend continued, there would have been 6 more operations to chose from and your argument would hold more water.

 

Then ask Bioware to make new ops, not rely on these old ones to keep the "challenge". There were 5 ops after TFB, S&V, DF, DP, Rav and DP, plus Dreadtooth, Golden Fury and Monolith. The 2-3 years old HM/NIM TFB didn't become faceroll, far from it.

 

Run old ops to death isn't really fun to Hardcore players either, other than sell the drops.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[Aznfighter]

Hey, how about all you bad's take the time to learn mechanics and stop feeling so damned entitled. Either pay the people who do the sale runs to get you vanity items or take the time to actually get good and appreciate the amount of effort BW took to actually make challenging operations. If you are doing ops for things besides story or gear it's time to skill up a little bit, because soon enough you'll be left in the dust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Even though its more like "Tanks too tough in EC plz nerf" , "SoA too stronk, needs to be nerfed plz"

[Slowpokeking]

Hey, how about all you bad's take the time to learn mechanics and stop feeling so damned entitled. Either pay the people who do the sale runs to get you vanity items or take the time to actually get good and appreciate the amount of effort BW took to actually make challenging operations. If you are doing ops for things besides story or gear it's time to skill up a little bit, because soon enough you'll be left in the dust.

*Even though its more like "Tanks too tough in EC plz nerf" , "SoA too stronk, needs to be nerfed plz"

 

Lol, Bioware only made 2 ops+1 boss since DF and DP and no new ops in KotFE, yeah such effort.

 

Why should people spend such time to skill up for such 2-3 years old content with little drop?

[Khevar]

Then ask Bioware to make new ops, not rely on these old ones to keep the "challenge". There were 5 ops after TFB, S&V, DF, DP, Rav and DP, plus Dreadtooth, Golden Fury and Monolith. The 2-3 years old HM/NIM TFB didn't become faceroll, far from it.

 

Run old ops to death isn't really fun to Hardcore players either, other than sell the drops.

You're not here asking for the ops to be retuned to make sure they're fun. You're here to ask for them to become "faceroll" so you can get decorations and mounts.

 

You don't want to run the content. You want the drops. I stand by my earlier statement that you'd be happiest if these were given away for free by an NPC and the entrance to the operation.

 

Would I prefer new operations? Of course I would, don't be obtuse. But until that happens, Bioware shouldn't completely eliminate all challenge whatosever from all level 55 ops just so you can get a digital toy a bit easier.

[Slowpokeking]

You're not here asking for the ops to be retuned to make sure they're fun. You're here to ask for them to become "faceroll" so you can get decorations and mounts.

 

You don't want to run the content. You want the drops. I stand by my earlier statement that you'd be happiest if these were given away for free by an NPC and the entrance to the operation.

 

Would I prefer new operations? Of course I would, don't be obtuse. But until that happens, Bioware shouldn't completely eliminate all challenge whatosever from all level 55 ops just so you can get a digital toy a bit easier.

 

What do you mean fun? Faceroll the bosses and get some decors are very fun to many players. Spending a lot of time and repair fee for garbage gears or run the same ops to death for years is not fun. Which is why most of the HM/NIM pugs ask for final boss achievement rather than let your practice, many guild don't bother to do it much because not good enough rewards. This is why new content is important to a MMO. This is why an ops' difficulty should match its drop.

 

No, we got Rav and ToS, why should years old ops still be relied for "challenge"?

Edited August 13, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[JouerTue]

Yeah, easy enough to let pugs ask for your achievement or they don't take you.

 

because those are tipycal farming runs, it's better if everyone know the tactics to avoid one shotting/wipe mechanics still working despite of gear and over levelling.

 

there's no need to explain tactics for old content at a difficulty you should have learnt in your guild when it was current content. you can always form your group without cheevo required, it will gather people willing to do fights they skipped and to do something different, it can be really funny, but do not expect to do the hardest bosses like op IX or thrasher or styrak, brontes or the council..

[Slowpokeking]

because those are tipycal farming runs, it's better if everyone know the tactics to avoid one shotting/wipe mechanics still working despite of gear and over levelling.

 

there's no need to explain tactics for old content at a difficulty you should have learnt in your guild when it was current content. you can always form your group without cheevo required, it will gather people willing to do fights they skipped and to do something different, it can be really funny, but do not expect to do the hardest bosses like op IX or thrasher or styrak, brontes or the council..

 

Actually, even if you don't ask for cheevo, your team members would ask you to request for that. And even if you form one without cheevo, they don't have patience and quit after 2-3 wipes. That's how it goes.

 

Why there is no need? A lot of people are either new, returning players or not ops runner before, a lot of guilds are newly formed and they don't want to do these pointless level 55 ops since no good gear drops. Not every players are old ops runners, understand that.

 

Oh yeah, we should still make 2-3 years old content hard to level 60 players with 190-198 tier gears.

[Gardimuer]

Why there is no need? A lot of people are either new, returning players or not ops runner before.

If the content is nerfed, the new/returning players will still be missing out because they don't get to experience the content as an enjoyable challenge.

 

A lot of guilds are newly formed and they don't want to do these pointless level 55 ops since no good gear drops. Not every players are old ops runners, understand that.

 

Actually, I know of many guilds with new players that do the lvl 55 NiM ops on a regular basis. People do it for the titles, the unique glowing gear sets, and for the mounts. Or they do it because they enjoy the challenge and the lvl 50 ops are mind numbingly boring.

[Slowpokeking]

If the content is nerfed, the new/returning players will still be missing out because they don't get to experience the content as an enjoyable challenge.

 

They shouldn't, because the era of level 55 has passed. The "enjoyable" challenge should be the new level 60 ops, not the old ones. The ops is designed to let level 55 players with under 168-186 gears to have enjoyable challenge, not level 60s with 190+ gears. If they WANT to challenge it, then they could try it at level 55 with low tier gears.

 

Actually, I know of many guilds with new players that do the lvl 55 NiM ops on a regular basis. People do it for the titles, the unique glowing gear sets, and for the mounts. Or they do it because they enjoy the challenge and the lvl 50 ops are mind numbingly boring.

 

Many many don't, these are not enough to attract a lot of ppl to try it.

[Khevar]

The "enjoyable" challenge should be the new level 60 ops, not the old ones.

Anyone that likes raiding should have more than 2 choices that are remotely challenging.

 

You're not asking for "tuning". You're asking for "faceroll". Are you able to see the effect your request would have on others?

Faceroll the bosses and get some decors are very fun to many players. Spending a lot of time and repair fee for garbage gears or run the same ops to death for years is not fun.

Facerolling operations are in the province of story mode content. Level 55 HM content currently provides some challenge. NM content more so.

 

Changing HM/NM to faceroll easy (just so you can get some toys) effectively removes choices for people that happen to like operations.

If they WANT to challenge it, then they could try it at level 55 with low tier gears.

Without the ability to turn off XP gain, this isn't possible. The multiple elite trash mobs in operations provide a lot of XP. When 2.0 dropped some friends amd I ran through Eternity Vault just for giggles and made noticeable progress towards level 55 by the time we got to the end.

 

For what it's worth, this is one of the reasons I think that scaling the old ops to 65 has the potential of being good for newer players that want to try operations. The mechanics in EV and KP are easier than those in EC and TfB. There is a decent "mechanics" progression running the ops in some semblance of sequence.

 

When you vastly outlevel the operation, mechanics can safely be ignored. But doing it AT level keeps one on your toes and better prepared for the next operation which increases the gradient. Time will tell if this turns out to be the case, of course.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

Anyone that likes raiding should have more than 2 choices that are remotely challenging.

 

There are more than 2, Monolith count as one.

 

You're not asking for "tuning". You're asking for "faceroll". Are you able to see the effect your request would have on others?

 

Facerolling operations are in the province of story mode content. Level 55 HM content currently provides some challenge. NM content more so.

 

Changing HM/NM to faceroll easy (just so you can get some toys) effectively removes choices for people that happen to like operations.

 

No, it should depend on player level and gear.

 

Level 55 HM/NIM, which drops 168-186 tier gear, should be

 

Quite challenging to level 55 players with <168 tier gears

Not really hard to level 55 players with around 180-186 tier gear.

Faceroll to level 60 players with 190-198 tier gear.

 

That's how MMO works, why should a 2-3 years old ops(which is VERY VERY old) not be faceroll and still be "challenging" to players with top tier gears?

 

 

Without the ability to turn off XP gain, this isn't possible. The multiple elite trash mobs in operations provide a lot of XP. When 2.0 dropped some friends amd I ran through Eternity Vault just for giggles and made noticeable progress towards level 55 by the time we got to the end.

 

For what it's worth, this is one of the reasons I think that scaling the old ops to 65 has the potential of being good for newer players that want to try operations. The mechanics in EV and KP are easier than those in EC and TfB. There is a decent "mechanics" progression running the ops in some semblance of sequence.

 

When you vastly outlevel the operation, mechanics can safely be ignored. But doing it AT level keeps one on your toes and better prepared for the next operation which increases the gradient. Time will tell if this turns out to be the case, of course.

 

Then don't learn new skills and don't change to new gears. Just leveling up won't change your character much.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[Gardimuer]

Then don't learn new skills and don't change to new gears. Just leveling up won't change your character much.

 

Actually leveling changes your character a lot.

 

- You get a higher base HP.

- You get a chance to resist any attack from a lower level NPC, including bosses.

- As you level up the stats in your gear are less effective. This is because of the level coefficient in the stat equations. As an example: to reach 100% ranged/melee accuracy you need 695 accuracy rating at lvl 55, but at lvl 60 you need 758.

 

So going in with your old lvl 55 gear is not the same as playing it at level.

[Slowpokeking]

Actually leveling changes your character a lot.

 

- You get a higher base HP.

- You get a chance to resist any attack from a lower level NPC, including bosses.

- As you level up the stats in your gear are less effective. This is because of the level coefficient in the stat equations. As an example: to reach 100% ranged/melee accuracy you need 695 accuracy rating at lvl 55, but at lvl 60 you need 758.

 

So going in with your old lvl 55 gear is not the same as playing it at level.

 

The HP doesn't mean much without high level gear. The resistance doesn't get really significant unless you are 8-9 levels higher.

 

So less effective stats is a good thing that the fight became more challenge. You can even take off some gear if you want it to become more interesting.

[Khevar]

I'm only going to comment on one thing here:

Faceroll to level 60 players with 190-198 tier gear.

You seem to dislike the idea of mechanics. It is those that are the difference between Faceroll and Not Faceroll. NOT the gear.

 

Remember Lost Island? Tuned for Columi, but players in full Black Hole gear would never make it past LR-5 if they don't interrupt in time or don't cleanse after a missed interrupt.

 

The only way to make TfB/SnV/DF/DP actually faceroll would be to remove mechanics.

 

Now, the 5 level disparity (and the extra gear) allow you to be a sloppy dps with a bad rotation, or a sloppy tank who mistimes defensives, or a sloppy healer that overheats, yet STILL beat the encounter if the mechanics are followed. Some super elite dps pulling 5k will do diddly/squat if he doesn't stand INSIDE the Bukwark shield when attacking ...

 

It is the mechanics that make the fights interesting, and unfortunately for you, prevent the them from being "facerolled".

Edited August 14, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

I'm only going to comment on one thing here:

 

You seem to dislike the idea of mechanics. It is those that are the difference between Faceroll and Not Faceroll. NOT the gear.

 

Remember Lost Island? Tuned for Columi, but players in full Black Hole gear would never make it past LR-5 if they don't interrupt in time or don't cleanse after a missed interrupt.

 

The only way to make TfB/SnV/DF/DP actually faceroll would be to remove mechanics.

 

Now, the 5 level disparity (and the extra gear) allow you to be a sloppy dps with a bad rotation, or a sloppy tank who mistimes defensives, or a sloppy healer that overheats, yet STILL beat the encounter if the mechanics are followed. Some super elite dps pulling 5k will do diddly/squat if he doesn't stand INSIDE the Bukwark shield when attacking ...

 

It is the mechanics that make the fights interesting, and unfortunately for you, prevent the them from being "facerolled".

 

Faceroll does not mean to ignore all the mechanics, even EV/KP/EC have some mechanics to be noticed. Actually TFB to DP got a lot of 1-shot mech.

 

LI HM was a bit overtuned as well, but it's not like level 55 players with 168 gear would still keep wipe.

 

Again if you want interesting fight in 60, do level 60 ops, if you want those level 55 ops interesting, do it at level 55, don't learn any new skills through out the ops and here is your fun. That's how should work out. We are not talking about fresh new ops, we are talking about 2 or even 3 years old ops, which should have been a faceroll based on MMO timespan.

[Khevar]

Again if you want interesting fight in 60, do level 60 ops, if you want those level 55 ops interesting, do it at level 55, don't learn any new skills through out the ops and here is your fun. That's how should work out. We are not talking about fresh new ops, we are talking about 2 or even 3 years old ops, which should have been a faceroll based on MMO timespan.

Do you know of new operations coming soon to replace the old ones you're asking to be removed?

Do you know of a way to downlevel a character to level 55 (and then not gain XP)?

No?

 

How do your suggestions above have any actual value to anyone?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Khevar

[Slowpokeking]

Do you know of new operations coming soon to replace the old ones you're asking to be removed?

Do you know of a way to downlevel a character to level 55 (and then not gain XP)?

No?

 

How do your suggestions above have any actual value to anyone?

 

Rav, ToS and Monolith, not enough?

 

With 12xXP, it's easy to make level 55s. Again level 55 era is over, those ops shouldn't have been the place to find real challenge.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[Torvai]

tldr: I'm a bad that can't be bothered learning mechanics in already alot easier content and want to get the titles/deco/mounts from it without any effort before 4.0 hits and it'll be even harder for me to get them.

 

Did I get this right, slowpoker?

[Slowpokeking]

Think about it. That's how a MMO's raid span usually goes.

 

A raid dungeon came out-ppl do it for a few months-new raid dunegon came out and the old one got easier due to players have new gears-xpc which let previous ops' difficulty drop down a lot due to level gap and new skills-new level ops came out...

 

One raid dungeon should have been a lot easier after expansion come out, and become pretty much faceroll for a full group after a few more patches. It would be stupid if a raid dungeon of "vanilla era" is still "challenging" to most of the pugs during the end of the xpc.

 

TFB HM came out more than 3, 3 years before and we had 2, 2 xpc after that. Challenge? You should find challenge in new ops which came out with the xpc, not such "ancient" ops.

[Slowpokeking]

tldr: I'm a bad that can't be bothered learning mechanics in already alot easier content and want to get the titles/deco/mounts from it without any effort before 4.0 hits and it'll be even harder for me to get them.

 

Did I get this right, slowpoker?

 

More like

 

"An ops shouldn't be a challenge to players long after its era has passed, when its drop couldn't even beat quest reward from easy story quest."

 

Such player is not bad, a WOW like MMO that rely on 2 or even 3 years old raid content to keep the "challenge", is bad on its PVE content at least.

[Torvai]

I tell you a little secret: What kills pugs that have never done the content before, are mechanics they don't know. In order to make it faceroll, the devs would need to remove every mechanic in NiM, that isn't present in SM. What we then would have is, wait for it....

 

 

 

 

STORYMODE.

 

 

Also, why the discussion? In 2 Month it'll be actual content.

[rantboi]

Level 55 HM/NIM, which drops 168-186 tier gear, should be

 

Faceroll to level 60 players with 190-198 tier gear.

 

and that's how it already is when everyone knows tactics, so what's the problem?